My next project for my car is making it handle. I am going to need alot of advice because I have never built a car to handle. The car is a 71 coupe, the engine is a small block with 400+ hp, th350, 12 bolt rear. The car is more or less a street car but I drag race with it on friday nights. Its not going to be a road race car, I may do some times or something just to see how the suspension mods helped but thats not the purpose of the car. I just want my street car to handle good. My first plan is to lower it and put sway bars. What size bar should I use on the front? Should I use a rear bar? How much should I lower it without having tire isues? I plan on running 17X8 wrapped in 25540R17's. I was thinking about the eibach kit that drops it about about 1.5" but I would like to go lower. Any suggestions on what springs and swaybars I should run?

if your trying to get the most handling for the least money ...
I've run the factory 1 1/8 front bar with the factory rear 7/8 bar & boxed lowers with a quality gas shocks :D
1 1/2 " lowering springs & the largest tire that will fit under the car in my case 245x60 15 s
giving what I thought was an Excellent result without having to empty my bank account :thumbsup:

I know you can run those tires, I saw them already on a car with 1.5

Does anyone know the differences between Eibach, Edelbrock, and Hotchkis lowering springs?

How are progressive springs different from regular coil springs?

Like you I would like a spring that has more than 1.3" drop and has good handling characteristics.

depends when you say handling whats the budget??????? i have 2k in my 72 chevelle and still have to build rear axle. so all depends how much $ your willing to spend and what you wanna do with the car.

Here is a link:


http://www.globalwest.net/handling_charts%20abody.htm

read the post from derek69ss on hardcore suspension!!!! must read before you buy anything!!!!!!!!!!!!

I want to spen 5-600 at first. My main question is would lowering springs and sway bars be the best parts to install first? I think I am only going to use a front sway bar, I heard that the rears are not needed for what I want to do and can even do more bad than good.

Start with springs and shocks, those will give you the best returns on your investment.

Some 550# / 135# rates with GOOD shocks such as Edelbrock, Koni, Alston, Billstein, and others. Avoid KYB, and any "parts-store" type shocks... spend the money on a real performance shock and you won't be dissappointed.

I have been reading alot of posts via search, and it seems like I would prefer a stiffer spring. Other than a more harsh ride what are the cons of a stiffer rate, I was thinking about a 700. I also want to lower the car about 2 inches.

Start with springs and shocks, those will give you the best returns on your investment.

Some 550# / 135# rates with GOOD shocks such as Edelbrock, Koni, Alston, Billstein, and others. Avoid KYB, and any "parts-store" type shocks... spend the money on a real performance shock and you won't be dissappointed.

Agreed, shocks and springs first. Eibachs and Bilstiens in my opinion are the best. Dont waste your time lowering the car without a good shock to support the springs. The stock sway bars are fine for what you are doing. Keep the rear sway bar also, you will get loose in the trun without it. What rear are you running, this will affect your turning. Also might want to look into a scandc suspension kit, they are in your price range.

I have been reading alot of posts via search, and it seems like I would prefer a stiffer spring. Other than a more harsh ride what are the cons of a stiffer rate, I was thinking about a 700. I also want to lower the car about 2 inches.

Stiffer springs are not going to help you at the strip...in fact they will hurt your 60 ft. times. With your budget, I would go to Global West front a-arm bushings and at least one of each of the rear four link bushings. For instance, choose GW bushings for the front of each of the lower and upper control arms at the rear. Then go with stock or poly on the rear of the control arms, so you have one GW bushing and one poly bushing controlling each rear control arm. You want no binding on the a-arms or the control arms. Stock bushing will bind and give a spongy feel when cornering. Poly gets rid of the spongy feel but they still bind. The GB bushings don't bind and they totally eliminate the spongy feel. Then box those stock rear control arms.

Ideally, you want your suspension bushings to be free enough to allow the suspension to move up and down. Then you want your springs to control the suspension movement. Then finally, the shocks to control the spring osculations or basically to keep the spring from bouncing.

After you've worked those out, choose a good sway bar like a big block Chevelle bar to control roll. Use good poly bushings on that bar.

Finally, and by the opinion of many...the most important is high performance tires.

Without the stiffer rate springs, you'll hook better at the strip. Use a stock rate spring and let the sway bar control roll. The ride will be much better. I'm sure you can find a lowering spring with a stock rate. If not, take a new stock spring and saw (not torch) off half a coil. That alone will save you about 200 dollars over a full set of lowering springs.

If you like, disconnect the front sway bar at the strip, allowing your front end to rise and get the weight to the rear.

The stock sway bars are fine for what you are doing. Keep the rear sway bar also, you will get loose in the trun without it.I agree with most of what you said, except this... less rear roll stiffness causes understeer, not oversteer.

With your budget, I would go to Global West front a-arm bushings and at least one of each of the rear four link bushings. For instance, choose GW bushings for the front of each of the lower and upper control arms at the rear. Then go with stock or poly on the rear of the control arms, so you have one GW bushing and one poly bushing controlling each rear control arm. You want no binding on the a-arms or the control arms. Stock bushing will bind and give a spongy feel when cornering. Poly gets rid of the spongy feel but they still bind. The GB bushings don't bind and they totally eliminate the spongy feel. Then box those stock rear control arms.What global-west bushings are you talking about? Rod ends? Rod ends are great when new, but they'll need replacing within 15,000 miles at the most. In the rear, rubber bushings are best for a mild street car on a tight budget.

Without the stiffer rate springs, you'll hook better at the strip. Use a stock rate spring and let the sway bar control roll. The ride will be much better. I'm sure you can find a lowering spring with a stock rate. If not, take a new stock spring and saw (not torch) off half a coil. That alone will save you about 200 dollars over a full set of lowering springs.Stock Chevelles are severely under-sprung. Sway-bars are meant to be a tuning aid, not a band-aid. If you want to handle, and brake effectively, a stiffer spring is necessary. This is where you need to decide whether you want a good launch at the strip, or improve your braking/handling performance. You can't do both, but the 550/135 combo would be a good compromise between both. Stock rates would launch better, but the big bar/soft spring would not be as effective as stiffening up the spring rate, and less sway-bar on the cornering/braking aspect.

The bushings I am talking about are the Del-alum bushings. They are a delrin/aluminum bushings and are the best of both worlds. No lateral play and smooth execution. Kept lubricated with the provided grease ports and they will last a very long time. I have them on both my 1988 IROC and my '66 Camino.

I suggested the stock rate (which shut not be mistaken for the stock spring which is probably worn out) because I would hope that in the near future, when more funds become available, you would consider the Global West upper A arms. They correct most if not all the early Chevelle front end woes you describe without going to a stiffer spring. Someone already gave you the Global West website and it explains how the stiffer spring is "old school" technology and not the cure for the poor handling front end. The Global West explaination is much better than I can explain. I can tell you that I have the upper arms on the '66 with stock rate springs and a '66 SS front bar with no rear bar, aftermarket rear control arms (UMI). The car handles like a dream. Worlds ahead of what it was. I had all the factory heavy duty parts of the day because the car is a El Camino Custom with a factory 396. It handled like a piece of crap compared to now. I regularly shock my 4th gen. Z28 buddies on the autocross course....and I know it's not me because they fly through the course when they drive the 'Camino. It's truly what I think a "sports truck" should be. I don't pretend to be a strip expert but the car does a fair job of hooking up with Nitto Proxies...not intended for strip use. I am anxious to try my newly aquired Moroso Brute Strength posi though.

...you would consider the Global West upper A arms. They correct most if not all the early Chevelle front end woes you describe without going to a stiffer spring.
I'll comment on the rest of your post when I'm sober, but this is so totally incorrect, that I can't just let it go until tomorrow... GW A-arms help add positive caster... that's it. That is hardly the worst of the front end issues, the backwards camber curve is, A-arms, no matter what kind, do nothing to fix this.

Respectfully, I'm not a Chevelle handling guru but I know what has worked for me. The GW a-arms absolutely address the camber curve. If there is one top brand owner/engineer who keeps himself accessable to the public....it's Doug Nordin at Global West. He can best debate your concerns.

http://www.globalwest.net/global_wests_tubular_upper_contr.htm

You see...the stock poor camber design is the main focus of the application.

Now...the Global West products can be added in stages depending on what you are looking for. Problem is that a rear wheel drive car with great 60 ft times will struggle in a autocross/road race arena because the design will be different. I suggested a stock rate spring as compromise to good 60 ft. times with a nice cornering car. One exeption would be converting to four wheel drive. Any WRX or Syclone owner can attest to that.

Then go with stock or poly on the rear of the control arms, so you have one GW bushing and one poly bushing controlling each rear control arm. You want no binding on the a-arms or the control arms.
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The bushings I am talking about are the Del-alum bushings. They are a delrin/aluminum bushings and are the best of both worlds. No lateral play and smooth execution. Kept lubricated with the provided grease ports and they will last a very long time. I have them on both my 1988 IROC and my '66 Camino. In the front suspension, these bushings work very well, actually the best - but delrin isn't a GW-only product, and they can be found cheaper through stock car suppliers. :) In the rear, these are worse than poly bushings for bind, and should not be used at all in the uppers, and only on one end on the lowers. In the uppers, only rubber or some type of spherical should be used. In the lower arms, if you use something with no compliance (like a delrin bushing) you will need rubber or spherical on the other end... you can get by with all poly in the lowers, as there's some compliance in the urethane, but still I'd recommend rubber or spherical in at least one end. (although stock lower arms twist enough, that poly on both ends will work OK)

I suggested the stock rate (which should not be mistaken for the stock spring which is probably worn out) Springs do not wear out, and they will never get softer - the rate stays the same, but the spring LOAD decreases, meaning the springs get lower, but a 350# spring will always be a 350# but the car will get lower over time.

...because I would hope that in the near future, when more funds become available, you would consider the Global West upper A arms. They correct most if not all the early Chevelle front end woes you describe without going to a stiffer spring. The A-arms do not change the camber curve, their tall-spindles do... what they don't say is how the long, low, cast-on steering arm of their beloved B-body spindle doubles the factory bumpsteer, slows the steering ratio, widens the turning radius, and screws up the ackerman when installed on a Chevelle.

Someone already gave you the Global West website and it explains how the stiffer spring is "old school" technology and not the cure for the poor handling front end.I'd like to read where it says this, but either I missed it, or it's not on the page of the link provided. It is true that with the stock spindle, it requires more spring and/or swaybar to keep the tire flatter on the road (so the camber doesn't go so far positive on the side that's compressed) but these cars are STILL severely under-sprung even when all of the bad geometry is fixed correctly.

I can tell you that I have the upper arms on the '66 with stock rate springs and a '66 SS front bar with no rear bar, aftermarket rear control arms (UMI). The car handles like a dream. Worlds ahead of what it was. What spindle are you using (stock or tall?), and which UMI rear arms (poly bushed, or rod ends?) It sounds like there's a lot of performance left in your combo if you're interested in some advice... and I'd listen to advice from more than one supplier, and also from some people who aren't trying to sell you anything. ;)

The GW a-arms absolutely address the camber curve. :noway: I'd like to hear an explanation of how.

If there is one top brand owner/engineer who keeps himself accessable to the public....it's Doug Nordin at Global West. He can best debate your concerns.I wish he would... I wish all parts suppliers would sign up on some of the forums to debate their products PUBLICLY. Mark at SC&C has, and he's gained a lot of business here because of it. :thumbsup: ...partly because he doesn't make wild claims that he can't back up, but mostly because he offers better products at better prices than Brand "H" and Brand "GW".

I wish he would... I wish all parts suppliers would sign up on some of the forums to debate their products PUBLICLY. Mark at SC&C has, and he's gained a lot of business here because of it. :thumbsup: ...partly because he doesn't make wild claims that he can't back up, but mostly because he offers better products at better prices than Brand "H" and Brand "GW".

You said it brother, he really stands behind his products and I wish more companies would take a que from him.

Bump,

I'm interested in this thread as well. I have a 71 convertible and would like to upgrade the suspension as well. But, got to admit after reading this thread three times I'm still confused about what I should do.

What I have planned is: 350 sb getting replaced with a 496 bbc.
Builder says there won't be much drop in front end as the 350 has iron heads and new bbc will have aluminum. Installing power steering. Has power brakes, front disk rear drum, would like to upgrade to rear disk. Would like to drop 1.5 to 2". As far handling I'm looking for, would like good street performance. Do not anticpate racing but would like good response in the event I corner alittle fast or ever need to swerve sometime. Right now feels like my 04 GMC P/U handles a little better. Budget to do it is undetermined. Would like something decent but doesn;t have to be all world. Maybe $400-$500 each end?

DCAracing.com has nice monoball bushings that install in the stock rear control arms. You could try them in one end of each arm. They would be a bit harsh on both ends. I run these in my dirt street stock rear suspension. Frees it up and looks stock!

I run Global West every thing, on the front I have their Pro Vintage set up with the 12.8" Wilwood brakes and an AGR 12 turn steering box. On the back I have Global West upper (adjustable) and lower arms as well as a set of triangulation braces on a Currie 9" with no rear end camber. I run 255/50R17s on 9" wide 17" rims front and back.
Absolutly no understeer. It gets oversteer when I am late into turns which can generally be overcome with throttle and counter steer. I have their "Grocery getter" springs as I drive the car to the track (120 mi) so I want to be comfortable too.
I have no rear sway bar.
Doug at Global West could do better in the service department, I must say. He did offer a GW track day at Willow Springs though and based on ride/tire temps he did swap, free of charge, the first set of springs (stiff ones) for a softer set.
Drag Racing? Don't know how well that would work as I have yet to go and run the quarter. I have too much fun catching Lotus Elise's and BMW M3's...

Ron