I read your thread about installing new door skins. after you install the skin is there really all that much room to make adjustments to the skin on the inner panel?
I've never done this before, and I just ordered new skins for my 68 camaro. And also, how long does it take for the panel adhesive to set up, versus trial fitting the door on the car to make minor adjustments to the skin on the inner panel?

You know Randy, I have since added to the "Door skin basics" a suggestion to not glue it if you are a first timer. The glue can set up and cause you trouble. Duramix does have a glue that has a two hour work time I am told but I haven't used it yet.

After you fold over the lip, you will not be able to slide the skin around on the shell. You will be able to bring the edge up or down in relation to the surface of the adjacent panel and you will be able to twist the door to accomplish the same.

Make some templates of the edges locations and height, that sort of thing on the orig. panel. Then when you are installing the new panel you can check to see how close you are before you even tack weld the top you need the panel in the right spot.

Remember, you will be working with a repro panel and you cannot expect it to be perfectly the same as the original.

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

I have had good luck using the Duramix medium set adhesive(#478)Also 3M automix is good.both have about a 45 minute work time.The only way i install skins now is on the car.it is the only foolproof way.If you put the skin on the door frame off the car,there is a good chance you will get it on crooked and have a nightmare of a time getting the door to line up.First i take the door off, then take the old skin off.Put the door back on the car and align it on the old marks.Then lay the new skin on and clamp it in place with the clamps on top so you can close the door.At this point i make any needed adjustments to the door and make sure it closes nice and the skin fits well.Then i remove the skin,run a bead of adhesive around the frame(make sure you follow the directions,some companys want you to grind the area to bare metal,some don't.)Then lay the skin in place with the door closed.Once you have it positoned,clamp it in place up top then carefully open the door and clamp the bottom and sides.You can let it dry like this just make sure you wipe the adhesive off the edges or you will not be able to fold over the skin when it hardens up.After its cured i take the door off and fold the edges over and thats it.

70isfine, that really is a nice way to go. Thanks for the added info. I think that the adheasive will break away when you fold the metal, that would be a concern, but I imagine you have that worked out. Your procedure just sounds great.


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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

Thanks,i learned this the hard way.So many new cars have welded hinges or hinges that give you little or no adjustment,so this leaves little room for error in positioning the skin on the frame.Once the skin is folded over its not moving so even if the adhesive let loose it wouldn't matter much.That stuff is tough though,i have not seen evidence of it breaking loose,although a weld in each corner would not hurt. i ususally start the folding process while the glue is wet(i'm just impatient) and finish the areas i cant reach later when the door is off.Good luck.

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http://photos.yahoo.com/ochrisl

I too use 70isfine method of installing door skins. Martin I too glue on my skins then pound over the edge, Ive yet to see any evidence of the glue breaking away. We both know that it is hard to install a skin without having to mud up around the edges because the force from the hammer to the dolly. But since Ive started to glue on my skins Ive found that I need a lot less bondo or none at all to smooth out the impertions around the edges. Due to the fact that the glue holds the skin down on the frame and not allowing it to bounce up and down with the impact of the hammer. I prefer to let the glue fully cure then come back the next day and pound over the flange. Also I dont use that door skin glue that is on the market, use the regular panel bonding adhesive from 3M...Eric

Eric, maybe you should think about my "Door skin basics" approch. The only skin I ever put filler on was the first. I have not put a single drop of plastic filler on any door skin since. (other than if I am splicing it up around the window) I know that it is common to put filler and many guys do. If you read my "basics" I push down with the dolly on the top of the skin while hitting the lip at an angle so that it wants to fold instead of lifting the panel. And I think the real trick is to bend very little at a time, go around the door many, MANY times. Every time I see a guy smashing down the lip in a few blows, he is spreading filler on it later.
On the glue breaking away, you may not know it is happening. Have you ever pulled a panel off a Corvette? If you have not, all you do is hit the panel along the bonding strip and the bond will fail and you just pull the panel off. When you are hitting the panel between the hammer and dolly, the glue is being smacked in the same manner. I would be very surprised if it wasn't seporated from the metal. Now, does it matter? I am not sure if it is even a big deal. If you weld the panel to keep it from twisting and spray cavity wax or undercoat on the inside along the seam, it probably isn't even an issue.


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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

[This message has been edited by MARTINSR (edited 03-15-2002).]

Thanks for posting the pics. 70, I'm starting the same project on my 72, but only replacing the section behind the rear wheels.

Eric, it is hard to put how you feel and think into these gumples of letters. I may sound smarta$$y in my last post and I don't want you to think that. It is just info, and I hope it can be put to use. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

70isfine, I looked at the pictures included in your post. What an excellent example of taking your time to do a job properly. I need to tackle similar work and I have very little experience. Your example, and the comments from everyone else at this site will help me to achive the results I am looking for.

I just finished putting a new doorskin on last weekend, I plan to do the other skin this weekend. Anybody willing to give me some feedback please look at the pictures under bodywork on my website. I welded the skins so I probably will need to seal the seams with something. I shouldn't have to use much filler but I do have minimal dolly marks. What do you all think?

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http://webpages.charter.net/65chevelle/

smithyjc, that is some beautiful work there. And what a nice web site, did you do that? Very impressive.



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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

Martin, no hard feelings here, like you said before just like a couple of guys standing around bsing. No way was what i said a stap at you or your abilities just some of my observations. I agree with your door skins basics and follow them to a T but we both know that body work is about making time and sometimes we have to cut corners to make time. I dont like to cut corners and more then corcern you dont either just sometimes we have to please the customer and the insurance company.

Eric, the way I have described is in no way shape or form "cutting corners". I agree in collision repair, we do "cut corners" more than you would doing restoration, but this procedure is exactly way the factory did it. The only difference between your way and mine is just that, your way and mine. I have never seen anyone do it the way you do in a shop, but that doesn't mean you couldn't or wouldn't. Not every job has to be done by lunch time http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif It is like using weld throught primer. I get a car ready by the end of the day and then apply the weld through to let it dry good over night before I weld on it in the morning. You could do the same with the door skin, glue it on and then fold the lip in the morning.

I thought about my comments on the glue breaking away when struck by the hammer. And not that you need my OK http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif but I do think that would work fine. The thing being, you don't need to "smash" the lip down, just bend it over. So if that is all you do, my issue with the glue is a moot point. Honestly, I think your (and 70isfine) process is a good one and a equal option to doing skins.

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

I didnt mean to imply that your method is cutting corners, hell thats the same method I use just that I glue them on instead of welding. I fully agree with you there are too many guys who just pound on that lip and get it bent over in two or three whacks.

The issue of the glue breaking away bugged at first, I didnt like the idea of hammering on the cured glue. My first glue job was in 98 I believe but anyway I still check that skin when ever I get the chance and havent seen anything that suggests it has broken away. In no way am I suggesting that glueing on skins is the way to go, its just another way, based on my experiences and observations.

No hard feelings taken Martin and none giving, nothing more then BSing, have a good one...Eric

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MARTINSR:
smithyjc, that is some beautiful work there. And what a nice web site, did you do that? Very impressive.

Thanks for the feedback. The website is managed by me, I update it every time I make measurable progress on the car. First efforts at both a website and a frame up. Do you have any suggestions on sealing the door skin seams now that they are welded?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



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http://webpages.charter.net/65chevelle/

I have been bonding door panels for several years now, and I have found that I can glue the panel, fold the edge, hang the door and aligh it all within the time allowed (Dura-Mix 4170). I also use a special door skin hammer and back it up with a rubber sanding block to fold the edge over. I rarely need to use filler. In fact, in a production bodywork situation, I panel the door, sand it, hang it, and paint the complete door,cure it, and hang it on the car, all in the same day while still providing excellent quality.
Gordon VM
Restoration Motorsports