I have a 70SS that was built in Arlington and I can not find the partial vin that is stamped in the body of the car. I have parted out many 70-72 cars (mainly Kansas cars) and have seen the partial VIN stamped in the same spot on all of these cars except mine. I am curious if Arlington cars may have been stamped in a different spot. It seems like Arlington did things a lot different than the other plants. The VIN plate is on the car but I am curious if it the partial VIN is located somewehere else other than the normal location.

I realize this is a sensitive subject. If someone is not confortable posting this information you can drop me a personal e-mail.

Thanks!

I have an Arlington 70 and there is no partial vin stamped under the heater blower like I thought there should be. Who knows?

The Altanta built 70 I parted out had the VIN on top of the left side frame rail, behind the tire.
At the time I didn't know about the numbers under the heater plenum so I didn't even look for it.

Why would it be a sensitive subject?? Hidden vins are well known to most people

I figured most people on this site were aware of the partial VIN behind the heater/AC box but I did not want to volunteer this information because you never know who is reading this.

My Arlington built car does not have a partial VIN stamped behind the heater box and I thought maybe it was stamped in some other place on Arlington cars. Does anyone else own a 1970 Arlington car that could verify if they have a partial VIN stamped behind the heater box. Maybe Arlington did not stamp the VIN on the body like the other plants.

Thanks for your response!

I have something stamped under the heater opening, it runs verticle but it's not my partial vin. It's numbers and some letters that are very hard to make out. It looks to have been stamped from the inside out and are not crisp at all. Maybe that's the reason Arlington had the 3 numbers next to the build date on the cowl tag for tracking purposes on the assembly line? Hopefully, some other Arlington owners will chime in.

fyi

All cars from 68 up had to have the CON VIN stamped on the engine, trans, body and frame. They were stamping the body and frame as far back as the early 60's. I have seen those, very hard to find unless the frame in pristine or been media blasted. Sand blasting can wipe them out as many are stamped lightly. Many base engine did not get a CON VIN till 68 but Hi-Perf engines did. Anytime you find a engine like a 369 etc w/o one you have to be suspicious of it origin. The appraisers will sure to be.

Example of con VIN: 18A123456 or 8A123456 NOT 136378A1223456
*The body vins were stamped behind the heater box or on the top lip of the cowl panel in the receiving body bank on the assembly line, in 2 places
*The engine/trans vins were stamped on the engine dress line
*The frame vin was stamped don the chassis dress line

All the work stations had teletype machines that printed out broadcast sheets for every car

Isn't there a partial vin along the trunk gutter where the quarter panel meets the trunk opening? Assuming the quarter panel has not been replaced with repop or used.

No, thats just a metal stamping plant sheet metal model ID 13637 etc

The purpose of the CON VIN was for id'ing stolen car parts. It was a tool for law enforcement and insurance investigators. If a car was on the hot sheet and you were found with the parts to it, you were in deep trouble as you would have been in possession of stolen property. Thats why the are hard to find, that was the intention. According to a old timer over at Camaros dot net who was a assembly plant manager, the FBI would make random inspections of assembly line opeations to enforce the CON VIN stampings. The locations was left up the mfg but they had to provide them with drawings as to where to look. If anyone in the plant was found to not be stamping them it would have been assumed they were part of a organized crime scheme. According to him, his a$$ was in deep water if they found things not correct.

Even back then, stolen cars and chop shops were a very big ciminal business enterprise. Thats the sole purpose of the CON VIN

Confidential VIN

Here is the info he provided..
During the years when I was an assembly plant manager, the FBI and State Police would show up unannounced about twice a year to audit our control procedures for VIN plates and VIN derivative stampings and "hidden" VIN numbers. They'd start with receipt and control of the blank VIN plates, then go through the security of the machine that stamped the VIN plates, daily logging/counting of plates (including documenting/retention of mis-stamped or damaged plates), same with controls on the rosette rivets and checking out the VIN plate installation, checking the pin-stampers that did the VIN derivative on the engine, transmission, body and frame, and they did a random audit of cars on the line to verify that all the numbers matched on each car and that all had been stamped/located in accordance with the drawings we supplied them with at the beginning of each model year. There was hell to pay if they found something they didn't like, but it never happened on my watch - I had enough day-to-day crises to manage without having more with the FBI.

When I pulled the AC box on my 68 last spring, I could not find the number stamping either.

There was a number stamped on the body under the blower motor (but was way below the heater box housing itself) but it did not correspond to any kind of vin number... there was no letter in it, and it was more than 7 digits.

There was also a number stamping on the peice of metal for the frame mounts below that, so I figured these two numbers were just panel id numbers, not the hidden vin, but it bothered me that I didn't see one. i even cleaned off all the seam sealer, but didn't find anything.

My car is a Fremont plant car, late 1967 MFG date...

We have come across several Arlington cars as of late that did not have VIN's stamped on the firewall. When this was first noted we were somewhat alarmed even though the cars showed NO signs of tampering. Our questions were put to Chris W. and he confirmed that this was not unusual and sometimes Arlington cars are found to have VIN's stamped under the dash on the interior side. Because I have seen this a few times in the last year on unmolested cars I am starting to believe this happened a fair amount. I agree with the Federal law that Mike talks about but I am seeing to the contrary. Of the MANY 1970 Chevelle's I have disassembled I would say less then 30% have had VIN's stamped on the frames. Coincidently, all the Arlington cars did???
Rick

Not to argue the point of not finding them and I know how hard it can be to find them at times. Also agressive sanding or blasting can obliterate them to the poiint of being extremely hard to discern.

I know one guy here who insisted that was none on his car. He searched the frame and could not find it. After much arguing with him back and forth I finally stopped over his shop one day so he could prove to me that no VIN existed on this frame. You guessed it, I found one. It was so faint, you had to look very closely at an angle to see it. Years of wear and tear affected the metal surface. It really showed up better if you sprayed on some white paint and then sanded over it lightly. But still was so faint it hardly showed in a photo.

Note-Sand blasting can take of a lot of metal, expecially in the hands of amatuer blaster.

I assure you Mike that this is not the case at least on the Arlington cars I have restored that were missing VIN's. When I restore an LS-6, I take great pains in disassembling the car and taking layer by layer of 30 years of grease and grime off of them so that I can find every factory inspection mark. This is very important on the firewalls so that I can locate the grease pencil markings. On the cars that I speak of, there was not enough damage or rust to hinder finding the VIN's and the firewalls had only the original factory paint on them. As the attached picture shows, this is how I maintain the original markings. This car had NO body VIN on this car ANYWHERE and I have seen this at least 2 other times. I am also not argueing what is the norm, just showing that there are exceptions.

I agree that years of rust on a frame can make a stamped VIN disappear especially if it was not stamped very well to begin with. I looked for the partial VIN on the frame for a long time and did not locate it until I sandblasted it. It was actually stamped two times because the first time it was very light.

My question was based on the body VIN stamping. All of the cars I have seen with the partial VIN behind the heater box are stamped very deep and are usually stamped upside down. There is no way this would disappear. I do have a number stamped on the firewall from the inside of the right kick panel opening but it is not the partial VIN. I have the body on a rotisserie right now and it is a bare shell. I have looked inside and out for the partial VIN but I can not find one. I am glad to see I am not the only one with an Arlington car with no partial VIN on the body.

Of the MANY 1970 Chevelle's I have disassembled I would say less then 30% have had VIN's stamped on the frames.
Rick

My car is a Kansas car- has the hidden partial vin stamped on the outside firewall behind heater box & inside near kick panel area BUT not on the frame-only a P/N

I have disassembled 10-12 70-72 cars all from the Kansas plant and they all had the partial VIN stamped very well in large font behind the heater/ac housing.

If this was the law why would this policy not have been enforced at all GM plants? I sure wish someone on this forum had worked at the Arlington plant back then that could answer some of the questions as to why Arlington did some things totally different than the other plants.

I am not giving up, I think that VIN has to be stamped somewhere in the body. I have a 72 4 dr Malibu that was built in Arlington but it is still intact so I have not been able to inspect it yet.

I think that VIN has to be stamped somewhere in the body.

Oh, I think its there also. Finding it will be the challenge. Sure would be nice to have a book that shows where to look but I suppose it may be a crime to possess such a book like its a crime to possess the VIN rivets.

Speaking of VIN plate rivets. The rivets in my VIN plate are oriented so the rosette head is on top but a lot of the other cars I have seen (mainly Kansas cars) are installed with the rosette head underneath. As I mentioned I have a 72 4dr that was built in Arlington so I pulled the dash pad off to look at it and it has the rosette heads on top just like my 70 that was built in Arlington.

Very strange that Arlington cars have so many different quirks compared to the other plants. This car has never been tampered with or stolen so I know the VIN plate is legit and has never been off the car.

Has anyone else ever noticed this variation?

Yes that variation is common. A lot of people assume the car has been tampered with because of the rivet orientation which can be an incorrect assumption. I see them differently all the time.
Rick

Rick,

Thanks for the info.

Regarding the pictures you posted that show the factory markings on the firewall. I am curious how you strip the firewall without disturbing the markings. It looks like the firewall is bare metal in the pictures.

Did they mark the firewall before or after it was painted?

I heard of the resaon for the rivets being upside down but can't recall exactly why. Think it had something to do with the air driven tool and access was easlier from below.

Most of the assembly manuals that i have seen show the rivets installed with the rivet head under the dash. If you think about it i think that is the best way because the law doesn't have to tear the dash pad off when doing an inspection. Plus it makes life alot easier on us to take a look under the dash before buying a car.

Mark,
Most, but not all of the markings were applied at Fischer Body prior to ANY paint being applied to the firewall. What you saw in my previous photos were all applied at Fisher body. To start with, I normaly begin with a very light wet sanding of the firewall to try and locate anything under the (usually several layers of reapplied used car lot paint) until I get down to the factory paint. This will reveal the markings put on after the firewall paint was applied such as the check marks placed where the single screw cowl induction solenoid hole was marked and also any of the harness hooks.

Once I found all that I think that are on the surface then I start to strip off the original firewall paint. I strip that with sand or media (depending on the job) but at a very low pressure and very slowly remove paint. Because the original markings were put on with a grease pencil they tend to show up very nicely as a shadow. The grease pencil protected the steel and the paint did not stain that area. I do not actually see much of the grease pencil remains but expose only the metal that has a different shade to it.

Then it is just a matter of photographing it and reapplying it when the car is being painted. The only difference I do in the reapplication is that I spray on a couple coats of the black and then apply the grease pencil marking followed by another coat of paint. This final coat covers the grease pencil marking and gives it a ghost effect. Too many people apply the grease markings directly over the final coat which in most cases is incorrect.

I have some photograph examples on my office computer and will post them tomorrow.
Rick

When you mention the vin might be under the dash, what or where exactly do you mean?? I have an Arlington 70 SS 396 4spd car and I'm going to be taking the interior out this winter.

I have never personally seen the stamp under the dash but according to Chris W. he has come across some that did have them stamped there and nowhere on the firewall. I have seen the non stamped firewall but up until recently never looked under the dash. I am assuming it was stamped somewhere on the lower inside of the cowl wall or rear of the firewall. He frequents these forums and it is probably best I let him answer that one.
Rick

I went and took some pictures of the stamp on my firewall yesterday, there is no vin stamp anywhere. I couldn't find anything either on the inside or outside of the cowl wall. I also checked for a stamp on the top of the frame rails and could find nothing that even resembled a light stamping. Here's the pictures, any thoughts as to what this number represents? BTW this is an Arlington car and the rossette vin rivets are on the top.

704EVER -- I've seen VIN numbers stamped in the cowl area (Leeds plant) where the fan motor cagewheel goes. Look in there and see what you can find. I''m not sure what the number is that you show stamped on the front of the firewall. FWIW, some Leeds plant cars do not have a VIN stamping in the cowl where the blower motor goes. Confused? Sometimes there's a VIN stamping, sometimes there's not...

704EVER,

Thanks for letting me know about the orientation of your Arlington car rivets. The first time I noticed that I thought maybe something had happened even though I have owned the car since 1978.

I have a code similar to this stamped inside the cowl where the right kick panel goes. It is not visible on the firewall like yours is. Are you lucky enough to have the build sheet for your car? Maybe that stamped code correlates with something on the build sheet.

I would be curious to know. Thanks again to everyone that repsonded to this post. This is a great forum!!

I'm wondering that since 1970 was the first year for Chevelles being built at Arlington if Arlington didn't use the same locations they were already using for full size passenger cars that they'd been building for a number of years? I don't know (or personally even care) where numbers were on full size cars were from Arlington, does anyone know? Isn't Arlington the only 70 plant that left the undercarriage in red primer as well?

I know Fremont was a plant that tended to do things a bit differently than the others; 64 paint codes were letters, not numbers like everyone else, different wording on the body plate in 65 than anyone else and not noting convertible/vinyl top colors, etc.

704EVER,

Thanks for letting me know about the orientation of your Arlington car rivets. The first time I noticed that I thought maybe something had happened even though I have owned the car since 1978.

I have a code similar to this stamped inside the cowl where the right kick panel goes. It is not visible on the firewall like yours is. Are you lucky enough to have the build sheet for your car? Maybe that stamped code correlates with something on the build sheet.

I would be curious to know. Thanks again to everyone that repsonded to this post. This is a great forum!!
Yes I have the build sheet for my car and I can't find anything on the sheet that matches this stamp. I'm not even exactly sure of what these numbers or letters are.

I'm wondering that since 1970 was the first year for Chevelles being built at Arlington if Arlington didn't use the same locations they were already using for full size passenger cars that they'd been building for a number of years? I don't know (or personally even care) where numbers were on full size cars were from Arlington, does anyone know? Isn't Arlington the only 70 plant that left the undercarriage in red primer as well?

I've found several "quirks" on my Arlington-built '70 LS-5 car. And you're right, Dale -- I have red primer on the undercarriage. Someone sprayed the car with undercoating, but I found several areas where the red primer is visible.

Here are a couple of shot of mine- it a partial vin# Not the entire # but these #'s in sequence are in my vin # Kansas car.

FYI:
I have a 72 Chevelle built in Kansas. The partial VIN is located on the firewall at the bottom of the round hole for the heater motor and at the bottom of the large square hole where the heater/ac housing goes through.
I found the build date on the outside of the drivers side rear frame rail, between the tire and bumper. I can't see a VIN on the rear frame rail.