Autozone lists 2 boxes for a Monte SS. One has 2.5 turns, and one has 3.5. There's about a $50.00 difference in price

The 3.5 turn box has the same part # as the Jeep GC, part # 7525

The Caprice's have different #'s, so there must be a difference between it and the M/C boxes.

Any reason not to use the 2.5 turn box vs. the 3.5? Do they look like the stock Chevelle box?

I know that there are several companies that remanufacture or rebuild Saginaw power steering gears. That being said, I have had the sneaking suspicion that when you purchase a rebuilt gear, about the only thing that you can be assured of getting is how many turns lock to lock. (Essentially the steering gear housing has been the same for the last 35 years - so they all bolt in quite easily and look the same.)

Essentially the turns lock to lock means almost NOTHING!

Depending upon the gear ratio (set by the ratio of the worm and the gear set) and the amount of travel of the pitman shaft, you can get 3 turns lock to lock with a large combination of ratios.

Very fast 12.7:1 ratio x 89 degrees of travel/360 = 3.14 turns
Medium 14:1 ratio x 78.5 degrees of travel/360 = 3.05 turns
Very slow 17.5:1 ratio x 64 degrees of travel/360 = 3.11 turns

The rebuilders should be specifying the ratio and the degrees of travel, NOT just the number of turns. They obviously would have the equipment to be able to check travel, turns, and ratio.

Another concern is the valve effort. The valve in the gear is 90% responsible for the amount of effort that it takes to turn the steering wheel. Most of the gears that were manufactured in the late 60s to the mid 1970s were usually very light effort. So the old gears with the 13/16 diameter input shafts were most likely light effort gears. So unless the rebuilder has access to a supply of larger diameter torsion bars, AND they have a machine that would allow them to tear down the valve, insert the larger T-bar, and then rebalance and pin the T-bar in place, you are most likely getting a light effort gear for your early Chevelles.

I will try to make contact with the service department at Saginaw (I know that they don't manufacture or remanufacture service gears). However, they may sell things like just the T-bars or maybe even complete valves. Possibly I might try and contact the engineering department(s) at a rebuilder to try and understand how they "engineer" rebuilt gears for service.

Stay tuned.
JIML82

Is the Jeep box a good choice regardless?

Most of the Monte Carlo gears were designed with 81 degrees of pitman shaft travel. The Jeep gear has 86 degrees travel. It should fit just fine.

BTW, are you installing the MC gear in your 69 Chevelle or do you actually have a MC you are rebuilding?

JIML82

Jim, thanks for the help.

I'm still up in the air regarding everything. I did some searching and found that the MC/Buick/Caprice and Jeep boxes are good choice.
Is even the regular MC box better than whats in this 69? Hopefully they look close enough that when I bring back the core they wont notice the difference :rolleyes:

All of the 1969 Chevelle power gears had quite light steering efforts. Any of the fast ratio Caprice, MC, or Jeep power gears should have somewhat higher efforts. They will all look the same and bolt into your car the same. BTW, the tapped mounting holes in the gear housing (7/16-14 UNC thread) never changed to metric.

Don't forget that all production GM gears did change to o-ring metric ports starting in 1980. I don't know how the aftermarket people treat the metric issues.

Jim

My car definitley has very light steering effort. Being that I just drive casually, I'm not sure how much I would benefit from a fast ratio. I just want something that would help the car drive better. Thats why I was considering the regular MC box, but I definitley DO NOT want to increase my turning radius.

I just noticed that Autozone lists the same part # for Cherokees and Grand Cherokees, so it looks like we have some more options.

Does steering effort vary by how much pressure is in the system? I believe there are power steering pumps that pump 900 and 1400 psi?

Matt

I plan to eventually run hydroboost, and would like to have options to how much pressure the pump can put out.

Hey 69-chvl I recently did the GC steering gear swap in my 68 and I love it.
Nice feel at the wheel and I got more turning radius than I had before, which I wanted. Pick one up in the junk yard what 94-98 and call Lee Manufacturing in CA. The good people there will sent you a new splined Rag Joint and two little incerts to put in the new gear so you can use your stock hoses. If you can get the PS pump from the juck yard as well to swap out the presure release valve for more pressure to the new gear. Oh yeah all the old parts just thread right up to the new gear.Its an easy swap.
Tony

Forgot to tell you.... Use your old pitman arm and what Jim said, forget the lock to lock stuff for a street car mine is 3 and hair.

Thanks Tony.

I have my eye on several units now on ebay, I just hate to spend alot of $$ for a used unit. Afraid that it will have slop in it.

I will call Lee manf thanks for that.

Are you using the stock pump?

As Jim has said before the Gears simply dont wearout ! The GC have about 10 years on them at best. Yes I did use my stock Pump and Hoses, I did get my PS pump pressure valve out of a 70 chevelle though, it was said to have increased pressure..... I like it fine.
Tony

I've got a Monte Carlo box. I use the factory pump and hoses and seat adapters and rag joint from Lee's. Turning radius is not an issue.

I know that this doesn't seem particularly logical but trust me on this. The maximum pressure setting (pressure relief setting) in the pump has NOTHING to do with steering effort. The amount of steering effort is controlled by the valve porting and torsion bar size inside the steering gear.

You have a pump that creates sufficient pressure if you can stop your car on a concrete surface. Hold it with the brakes. With the car at idle, try and turn all the way from straight ahead to full lock. If you have sufficient pressure to make it all the way to full lock, you have adequate pressure from the pump. This pressure has nothing to do with how heavy or light the steering feels driving down the road.

The amount of FLOW out of the pump does have some effect upon steering feel. The problem with reducing the flow is that at some point you will not be able to make a quick evasive maneuver with your car. When you whip your steering wheel to the right or left (trying to miss something that darts into the street, etc) you will feel an abrubt spike in steering effort because the pump isn't supplying enough fluid flow to push the rack piston in the gear at a high rate.

JIML82

Jim, does this mean that the stock pump isn't really adequate for the GC box?

I know that this doesn't seem particularly logical but trust me on this. The maximum pressure setting (pressure relief setting) in the pump has NOTHING to do with steering effort. The amount of steering effort is controlled by the valve porting and torsion bar size inside the steering gear.

You have a pump that creates sufficient pressure if you can stop your car on a concrete surface. Hold it with the brakes. With the car at idle, try and turn all the way from straight ahead to full lock. If you have sufficient pressure to make it all the way to full lock, you have adequate pressure from the pump. This pressure has nothing to do with how heavy or light the steering feels driving down the road.

The amount of FLOW out of the pump does have some effect upon steering feel. The problem with reducing the flow is that at some point you will not be able to make a quick evasive maneuver with your car. When you whip your steering wheel to the right or left (trying to miss something that darts into the street, etc) you will feel an abrubt spike in steering effort because the pump isn't supplying enough fluid flow to push the rack piston in the gear at a high rate.

JIML82

Thanks for explaining that concept, Jim.

The pressure relief setting in a C2/C3 pump can be increased fairly easily by installing a new flow control valve or removing one or two shims from the flow control valve that came with the original pump.

Jim

Jim, think there's some misunderstanding here...I have a 69 Chevelle SS not a vette (yet).

I have a new gear for an 86 Camaro that I got from Advance auto and installed it long enough to put the car on the trailer and take it to be painted then pulled it off. It wasn't that I didn't like it, which I did, I just ended up gettting a gear from ATS that Lee Manufacturing did for my 68 camaro. I will sell you this one cheap if you are interested.

Sorry about my confusion. Some of the C2/C3 Vette owners are installing later year 1999-2004 Grand Cherokee power gears and I got confused as to what forum I was working on.

The 1969 Chevelle power steering pump also has a fairly low pressure relief setting (around 950 psi). The pumps used in the 1972 and later Chevelles had a 1400 psi relief. Again, I would think that others who have converted to the 1992 - 1998 Jeep GC box could probably let you know if their production 1969 pump had adequate pressure. The static steer test that I described previously is still the way to determine if you have adequate pressure.

JIML82