I posted a question yesterday about painting my rails, inner fenders,radiator support and firewall with dp90lf epoxy primer without topcoating.I said it was Dp90 but it is Dp90lf.Has anyone used it and know if it will fade or how it holds up.I appreciate the response from the other one I posted but wanted to clarify what I was using.I also have access to transtar 2k epoxy.How is it?? THANKS!!

Like I said before dplf expoy primers are a substandard product. It is NOT the same product as dp not even close, even the PPG reps will say that. Dplf is not meant to be used as a stand alone product meaning it needs to be top coated.

PPG is trying to get its customers to stop using dplf products over bare metal, they recommend a self etching primer like dx1791. Dplf doesnt seal out the elements like dp did. I got stuff I primed with dplf and in two months had rust bubbling back through. Stopped using dplf and stopped having rust problems

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1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a buick baby
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

Sevt, do you wonder if what you and I have been harping about for months on the subject of DP, will ever sink in? When the manufacturer(PPG) even comes out and says not to use their product in this way, you have to wonder if some people are just plain stubborn or do they just not get it?
Gordon VM
Restoration Motorsports
http://groups.msn.com/Restorationphotos/shoebox.msnw?Page=1

sevt_chevelle; If your not using dplf epoxy anymore because it's no good, what epoxy are you using in it's place?

m22 I dont use expoy anymore. I used to use dp expoy but like I said its not the same as dplf not even close-pure junk. What I use now is what is called a self etching primer instead, like PPG dx1791, dupont variprime, or S-W EG980. After the etch I go straight to my 2K primer.

But I do have some street rod builders friends that I know in Minn and they use Valspar. They use expoy on their cars and swear by it. They claim its geat stuff but Ive yet to try it...Eric

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1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a buick baby
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

sevt_chevelle; I was under the impression that you could not put etch primer over a painted surface, if that's the case isn't etch primer only good to use over bare metal? What about putting filler over etch primer, or vise versa? Mike

M22 etch cant be used over painted surface you can have some slight over lap but no you cant have it on painted surface. Also you cant apply filler over etch, the only primer you can apply filler to is an expoy based product recommended for that method. I use filler on bare metal then apply etch then 2K primer. So yes etch is only good for over bare metal but you must keep in mind that an etch primer has greater corrosion fighting and adhesion chararteristics then expoy. The only advantage you get with expoy is that you can apply filler over it.

Iam not saying you shouldnt use expoy at all it has its place but I just believe that one place its not for is being applied to bare metal. PPG reps will even tell you that you should first apply an etch primer, and even GM, Ford and Mopar in their repair guidelines tell you that etch should be used on bare metal to meet the factory warrenty.

I dont use any expoy, but I do want to try Valspar's. The guys I know really like it. Ive yet to really work with it, but really thinking about buying a gallon and putting it through the test. The expoy they use is under the number of VP-50. The valspar rep that I talked to claimed it had propeties of both the etch and expoy. There is a number if you are at all interested 909-279-6100...Eric

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1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a buick baby
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

DPLF Epoxy Primer mixed 2:1 with DP401LF or DP402LF Catalyst provides
an excellent corrosion resistant primer. This primer provides excellent adhesion
to many types of properly prepared metal, fiberglass
and aluminum substrates, as well as plastic fillers.
DPLF Epoxy Primer may also be used as a sealer
and/or topcoated with most PPG Refinish products.
DPLF Epoxy Primer comes in 6 colors: DP40LF
(Gray-Green), DP48LF (White), DP50LF (Gray),
DP60LF (Blue), DP74LF (Red Oxide), and
DP90LF (Black).
DPLF Epoxy Primer
Features Advantages Benefits
 Direct to Metal  Anti-Corrosion  Excellent Adhesion
 Primer/Sealer  Multi-Purpose  Fewer Products to Stock

the info above is from PPG.

i guess we just dont get it.
cant seem to find anywhere where PPG has said that. (maybe its just your supplier saying that)


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70 SS396 CHEVELLE
70.5 Z/28 RALLYSPORT
ACES#4390
some pics http://community.webshots.com/album/12590431pqkzKyilTC

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GVMLS6:
Sevt, do you wonder if what you and I have been harping about for months on the subject of DP, will ever sink in? When the manufacturer(PPG) even comes out and says not to use their product in this way, you have to wonder if some people are just plain stubborn or do they just not get it?
Gordon VM
Restoration Motorsports
http://groups.msn.com/Restorationphotos/shoebox.msnw?Page=1 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gordon, do you try to offend people on purpose or do you just not get it that many of your posts are doing just that?



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http://webpages.charter.net/65chevelle/

Donny, can understand your confusion. Those tech sheets were most likely written years ago and never updated. I received my info from PPG tech schools I have attended in the Chicagoland area. This is where the real "in the field " info is passed along. It sounds like sevt_chevelle also got the same info from whatever part of the country he is from. If you chose not trust out professional opinions, that's fine.
smithyjc, very sorry if you feel offended from my posts. They are honestly not meant to offend, but to teach and supress all the bogus info that is out there. If you don't agree, that's fine too. I like to see cars done with what I call sub-standard materials parked next to my restorations at judged shows.
Gordon VM
Restoration Motorsports

Gordon,
that tech sheet was actually written this year.
i understand your point as far as getting a quality paint job, a better product comes out every day.
but for doing frames and undercarriage stuff i haven't seen anything better than DP.
when you can put a wrench on bolts that have been sprayed with it and it doesn't chip or spill some brake fluid on it and it doesn't lift it must be good.
I sandblast my frames, rear ends, a-arms and all the miscellaneous undercarriage parts and put two coats of DP on, and have never had any problems.

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70 SS396 CHEVELLE
70.5 Z/28 RALLYSPORT
ACES#4390
some pics http://community.webshots.com/album/12590431pqkzKyilTC

I agree with you donny, after reading this post I checked my tech sheet on this product and it states exactly what you posted above. Then I called my rep. and he assured me there would be no problem with direct to metal. I've had nothing but good luck with this stuff, and use it on frames and under body areas all the time. I think it is a excellent product.

The info I get is from directly my experiences with DPLF and others. The info about DPLF not being the same is from PPG reps not some guy standing behind the counter trying to sell me some paint. One rep I talk too about PPG paint has nothing to gain from telling me what he says. He stops by the shop just to BS, we spray sherwin williams paint. He has nothing to gain by telling that DP and DPLF is not the same and you should be applying a etch over bare metal instead of DPLF.

PPG is no different then any other company, they are selling you a product and want you to buy that product. Did Mopar tell you when you bought the car with the 2.2 and 2.4 engine that you would have to bring it back at around 60K to replace the head gaskets, what about ford and the 3.8? Did year one tell you when you bought a quarter skin that it would take 5 hours of cutting bending and tweaking of that panel just to get it to fit, NO and why cause they are selling you a product.

Why would that counter guy tell you that etch primer is better then expoy when expoy costs more-commission. Try seeking out different body shops in your area that spray PPG and ask them what they are spraying and why...Eric

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1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a buick baby
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

Guys, listen, I am on both sides of the fence on this one. The popularity of epoxies is largely to do to the spectacular marketing machine at PPG. They created a market for their DP line and did an outstanding job doing so.

Epoxy does have good corrosion fighting properties do to it's very sticky resins. BUT it does not have as good corrosion fighting properties as etch primers. This is PROVEN by the fact that even PPG requires ecth primer UNDER the Dp primers on their longest warranties at least on the fleet end. I don't remember if it was there on their life time warrantee for collision shops, but I will bet you a dollar it is.

Etch CAN be applied over paint, there just is no need to do so. I have used it on large trailers with hard to sand areas with good results.
Donny, read the last "benefit" of the DP primers. "Fewer products to stock" that along with the other "sell the sizzle not the steak" benefits are from the marketing department, not the technical department.

I do prefer epoxy on anything that is not going to need sanding prior to top coating like frames, rad supports, inner fenders, that sort of thing. BUT, I do use an etch under it. Epoxy has excellent chip resistance because it has a cushion for the top coat as it gets struck.

I have never used epoxy under filler, but it does sound like a great way to go. The corrosion fighting in that regard would be far superior to filler on bare metal. I live here in sunny California so the corrosion issue is not a big one. Filler on bare metal, etch and urethane prime, sand and paint, done deal. If I was in an area that corrosion was more of a concern, I would likely be applying epoxy under my filler.

If DP was a product as PPG marketed it, DPLF doesn't appear to be the same, so this is all a moot point. I don't believe DPLF is on any PPG high warrantee, if someone has that info, post it. PPG I believe has taken the urethane train into the 21st century.

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

[This message has been edited by MARTINSR (edited 09-08-2002).]

Hey Eric, you had to throw that mopar comment in there, thats funny because it happened to me. I guess now the dp is going to start peeling next with my luck http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Sure, the reps will tell you that DP can go directly on bare metal, but if you press them, and they are honest, they will also tell you that it is NOT meant to be a stand alone product! It needs to be topcoated with another product to be effective. This is the nature of epoxy coatings, liquid or powder. I know it's tempting to use alone on frames, engine parts, etc. because of it's gloss level and texture, but if exposed to sunlight too long, it can get chalky looking.Take a piece of OEM replacement sheet metal and leave it in the sun. A few months later,you will not like it's look. So why take a chance. A far better option iis Spies - Hecker etch primer (3255 or 3688), followed by urethane sealer (8590), followed by a single stage urethane top coat.
Eric, you are exactly right about the jobbers that SELL you the paint. In my 35+ years in this business, I have seldom found jobbers knowledgeable enough to give an expert opinion on paints. They are handling too many different products to know them well enough for me and they are, after selling you something. Better off getting advice from someone who has nothing to gain from the info he gives you.
Gordon VM
Restoration Motorsports

When I use DP90 I always topcoat with my preference of paint, I would never leave it as a stand alone.