my friend has a 67 camaro that is pretty much a bracket car but he does drive it on the street once and a while. With the parts he has I feel he should be faster based on what I see alof of the guys here running. Here is his set up.

all steel 67 camaro,gutted with cage
468bbc
11.5.1 and longer rods,don`t remember the length
closed chamber square port heads that he ported him self
Schnieder solid FT cam with 263/272@.050 and .590/.625-specs are exact but very close
MSD ignition locked out at 36 degrees
Dart single plain with 950 HP-94 primary 95 secondary jets
2 1/8" headers and 3" flowmaster exhaust
th400 with 3000 footbrake, flashed to 5500
spooled 12 bolt with 4.11 gears
28x11.5 MT slicks
stock leafs with floating ladder bar

So far his best time is 10.93 and best mph is 121 mph. He shifts at 6500rpms. I know guys who have gone faster with less motor so I think his set up is a little off. What do you guys think? What do you guys think about his jetting? It seems awfull big to me but he said the plugs are still white at the end of the track. Anyway, I told him I would post this here to see what you guys think. I`ll try to answer any questions the best I can. I would like to point out that besides a gear change from 4.88`s to 4.11 and a swap from the 850 to a 950 HP, the car is the same as it`s been since i met him 14yrs ago and it was running 11.50`s-11.60`s at that time at around 116mph.

Can you post the time slip? What kind of traction / tires is he running? I think a lot of the problem could be in the suspension.

Bill

I don`t have a time slip but I can ask him what it was. He just went last Wednesday. I want to say they are in the mid 1.6`s. I was thinking his suspension has some to do with it. I told him to loose the ladder bars and go with a Cal trac bar or something similar. another friend of mine had a low 10second 67 and ran 28x9 slicks with J bolt slappers. thanks for the reply, keep them coming.

94's and 95's are a LOT of jet. Has he tried to lean it out some?

I wouild suggest that he try tweaking the jets (smaller) and the timing (a little more) and see if he can borrow another set of headers (in the 1 3/4" range). If his short times are really in the mid 1.60s, that's leaving a lot on the table for a 10 second car, particularly with 11.5" slicks.

It sounds like awfully fat jetting to me as well, but I kinda skipped the hp experience, went from old fashioned 4150 straight to Dominator.

How much does the car weigh?

Wayyy to much jet, even with powervalves removed, smaller headers would help, maybe 1 7/8's. E.T. and mph seem to be inline, looks to be a turd off the line?

Oval ports and try another covertor. 2' inch headders would be better.

Get a Dominator! What kind of converter is it? Cheap high stall converters are ET killers, even if they stall 5500. I went 9.89 with a similar combo in a '68 Camaro many years ago. Car was backhalfed with leaf springs and ladder bars. Had closed chamber rec. port heads and a smallish roller cam by todays standards.(under .700" lift) Same size headers. But we ran a Victor 454R and an 1150 Dominator. We ran an 8" ATI converter, that would flash 5500-5600. We also ran a power glide.
Leaving at 5500 I don't see smaller headers making that much difference. Also, that cam will need good compression. Is he sure he has 11.5:1 compression or is that an educated guess?

wow thanks for the responce. I told him I thought his jetting was too much but he has some guy at the track giving him pointers. He is even wanting to go bigger jets if possible. I also told him to try advancing his timing and that his headers might be too big. He says he`s going to buy a new set pretty soon. I did tell him that he might be better off with some open chambered heads and even though he would loose some compression, his car might pick up some power with the right heads. I`m not sure what kind of converter it is but i remember him saying at some point that it was a 8" or 9" but he can only foot brake it to 3000-3500 before he over powers the brakes. His old tranny had a brake and he said it was about 5000rpms at that time. I`ll have to find out more on his converter. I`m not sure of the weight but it`s all steel with a cage and 2 race seats. He also modified the front cross member to remove some metal from it to lose some weight and the motor is set back some, not sure how much since it still has the stock firewall.

As for the jetting, what would you guys suggest? He is not running power valves. He has 1/2" line from fuel cell to carb and he says his fuel pressure never drops, even through the lights which seems a little odd to me.

as for the compression, I`m only going by what he said. I thought they were a LS6 replacement piston but he said that he has the longer rods and has Arias 11.5.1 pistons in it. I don`t know if he zero decked the block or what. He doesn`t know too much about engine building and is very old school. I do remember he said it was dynoed at just over 550hp. Another thing is his car is not very consistant and I don`t know if it`s the drive or the car. Last week he ran a 11.04,dialed 11.00 and ran a 10.96. The week prior he was running 11.40`s. He said there was a strong head wind which is pretty common for Sears Point But I use to race there too and was pretty consisitantbut I had a slower car.

Thanks again for the replies. Im going to give him a call later and pass on the info so far.

The headers are killin it, 1 7/8" would be what I'd try.
Jetting should be around 88 square for a 950.

Tell him to drop back to the mid-80's in all 4 corners.

I read some good advice. Especially regarding the big hedders.

That engine also has a really big port. He should go for a pair of AFR CNC 315's with the tulip exhaust valve. It will only need about a 4 degree split on the cam. Then he needs to run a different cam entirely. He needs to step up to a roller so the lift can take advantage of the heads' high lift flow. I would run a roller with about 294/302 @.020 and a 108LSA to make the engine happy with the longer rod(I'd guess a .250 longer rod.). This will really help concentrate the torque in the area that compliments the converter. Then he can shift at 7,000.

If he just simply doesn't want to spin faster than 6500RPM, then opt for the AFR Oval port and step down to about a 280/288@.020 cam. This thing will make peak torque in the high 4,000 range, but still hang right in there to 5500. And he will also have a ton of velocity in the port which will make for killer response and torque.

On a sidebar note: Keep the rod and main bearing clearances tight, rod side clearances to no more than .015, run a std volume oil pump, and some 10W30 oil. I say that because you said he is way old school. Most old school guys I know all insist on 20W50 oil (I call it mud), high volume pumps, and .003 main and rod oil clearances.

If he sets the engine up with a head/cam combo such as I have suggested, make sure he has 1/2 inch fuel lines throughout the entire fuel system with at least a 160GPH pump, or it won't run on the big end.

If you want to disguss cam further, just shoot me a PM.

I read some good advice. Especially regarding the big hedders.

That engine also has a really big port. He should go for a pair of AFR CNC 315's with the tulip exhaust valve. It will only need about a 4 degree split on the cam. Then he needs to run a different cam entirely. He needs to step up to a roller so the lift can take advantage of the heads' high lift flow. I would run a roller with about 294/302 @.020 and a 108LSA to make the engine happy with the longer rod(I'd guess a .250 longer rod.). This will really help concentrate the torque in the area that compliments the converter. Then he can shift at 7,000.

If he just simply doesn't want to spin faster than 6500RPM, then opt for the AFR Oval port and step down to about a 280/288@.020 cam. This thing will make peak torque in the high 4,000 range, but still hang right in there to 5500. And he will also have a ton of velocity in the port which will make for killer response and torque.

On a sidebar note: Keep the rod and main bearing clearances tight, rod side clearances to no more than .015, run a std volume oil pump, and some 10W30 oil. I say that because you said he is way old school. Most old school guys I know all insist on 20W50 oil (I call it mud), high volume pumps, and .003 main and rod oil clearances.

If he sets the engine up with a head/cam combo such as I have suggested, make sure he has 1/2 inch fuel lines throughout the entire fuel system with at least a 160GPH pump, or it won't run on the big end.

If you want to disguss cam further, just shoot me a PM.
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Just want to mention that it is going to be pretty hard to run a head that does not exist :D

As for rod length, (my favorite non-issue) in my opinion along with the opinion of folks I consider a lot smarter than me which actually doesn't take much :sad: ,,,
In the real world we live in it don't mean squat within reason like anything between a ratio of 1.5 to 1.8 or so.

Changing the rod ratio from 1.534 to 1.596 just isn't going to change much except for making the piston lighter & internal balancing easier which I do prefer.

Don't quite understand the reference to bearing clearance unless you are talking clearance you can drive a truck through,,, don't think you are going to pick up much here from my experience but I do favor tighter clearance than some.
But if the Pro Stock guys can run .003+ to 10,000 RPM with oil that looks more like alcohol than oil,,,, I highly doubt .003 is going to hurt you power wise at 7000 :D
As far as side clearances, in my opinion this is a lot less important than some seem to think as long as you have enough if you run a reasonable bearing clearance.
Plus, without a lot of work they are what they are, you ain't going to change what may be "perceived" to be too wide very easily,,

Agree, too much cam for 6500 in a 4" stroke deal.

Sounds like way too much jet.

Headers are also too big for the combo.

For changes, if he is going to keep it below 7000, less cam, less header, smaller better heads, either the Brodix RR or the AFR 305 with the CNC chamber would be my choices.
For a stock head I would opt for the ovals with some decent work over what he has.

I was hopeing you would jump into this Mike. Thanks for the input.

Ok guys, I got a little more info. He said the car weighs 3100lbs and runs a 8" TCI converter. He could`nt remember his 60' times. He is planning to put a new set of headers on and was thinking about some stepped headers but I don`t know what ones he was looking at. He`s a little confused on his jetting because when I talked to him today he said he had bothe 84/85 and 94/95. He said he was going to open it up and check for sure. He asked why it was still lean if the jets are too big but I don`t know what his plugs look like and if he even knows how to read them correctly anyway.

I don`t think he is going to change his heads anytime soon so he`ll have to work with them. He said he does have a roller cam to put in but if I remember right, it`s a old Crower street solid roller and i know there are better cams out there. He`s going to make me a more complete list of the car wit all the specs so I can post it here and have more accurate info to give you guys. Thanks again for the replies and I`ll post the new info asap.

Is the short block still healthy in this thing? I've been reading the posts and got the 14 years ago thing. How fresh is the bottom end? From what you are saying 10.90 in a 3100 lbs car only takes about 530 hp. Out of a 468 that's not hard to do. As far as the jetting goes I agree with everyone else. I have 92's all around in my 548 and that's crossing at 7600 rpm. Stepped headers are not where his problem is. That stuff is only a few horsepower here and there on a proven setup. His problems are internal.

Is the short block still healthy in this thing? I've been reading the posts and got the 14 years ago thing. How fresh is the bottom end? From what you are saying 10.90 in a 3100 lbs car only takes about 530 hp. Out of a 468 that's not hard to do. As far as the jetting goes I agree with everyone else. I have 92's all around in my 548 and that's crossing at 7600 rpm. Stepped headers are not where his problem is. That stuff is only a few horsepower here and there on a proven setup. His problems are internal.
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Actually closer to about 450 FWHP in a well set up car :)

Those headers are way too big for a moderate 468. He might try a different cam too. It's more than likely that the torque converter could be part of the problem. Jetting is way rich, like Rafel said. The cam sounds like a ZL-1 copy and should make much better power than what we're seeing. Get UDHarold to recommend a cam. Is the hood stock? I once had a 850 carb on a Edelbrock dual plane under a stock '68 SS hood and it almost touched. Putting on a hood that had a 7" Harwood scoop added 3 1/2 MPH and took 2 tenths off the E.T. just getting the hood off of the carb.

I honestly don`t know the condition of the lowerend. Yes It`s the same one for the last 14 yrs but it`s only had maybe 20-30 passes on it. The motor was dynoed at just over 550hp at the crankshaft.

Harold, I forgot that the car does have a `glass hood, some kind of aero scoop but can`t remember how tall. He has a stock cowl hood for shows but I think he pretty much leaves the aeroscoop on now. Like I said, he is planning to change headers and possibly swap the 3" flowmasters for a set of 3" dynomax bullets, don`t know if that will change anything though. He is going to verify what jets he has because like I said, he keeps going back and forth on what he has. Him and his dad are great at building very nice street rods and mild custom chevelles and camaros but he doesn`t know too much about performance stuff and I don`t know if he picked out the parts or if the shop that built the motor did. He is very old school and doesn`t know too much about the new technology.

I honestly don`t know the condition of the lowerend. Yes It`s the same one for the last 14 yrs but it`s only had maybe 20-30 passes on it. The motor was dynoed at just over 550hp at the crankshaft.

Harold, I forgot that the car does have a `glass hood, some kind of aero scoop but can`t remember how tall. He has a stock cowl hood for shows but I think he pretty much leaves the aeroscoop on now. Like I said, he is planning to change headers and possibly swap the 3" flowmasters for a set of 3" dynomax bullets, don`t know if that will change anything though. He is going to verify what jets he has because like I said, he keeps going back and forth on what he has. Him and his dad are great at building very nice street rods and mild custom chevelles and camaros but he doesn`t know too much about performance stuff and I don`t know if he picked out the parts or if the shop that built the motor did. He is very old school and doesn`t know too much about the new technology.
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May have dynoed a corrected 530HP but he had about 450 under whatever conditions prevailed on that run if he ran it all the way through :)

What you see on the dyno is corrected to about perfect air.