well my car is,well underpowered.its a 454 .030 2349 pistons,pro comp heads,rpm intake,rpm hydraulic flat cam,roller rockers 1.7,750 vacuum holley,hedders are 1 3/4,2 1/2 full exhaust with dynomax turbos.car is 70 camaro.i am on quest for low 11s.i bought this motor used,went through and freshened up with all new rings and bearings.this same engine ran 12.92 in a 4000lb 87 chevy four wheel drive truck,trust me i seen it with own eyes!car has killer bottom end torque more than i thought with 330cc heads.only difference is i am running a mechanical fuel pump from summit.i pulled up next to a STOCK 88 turbo supra at a 30mph roll and i expected to pull him hard and i cant.we cant pass each other.i swore the dude built his engine but i stopped him and its stock with 122,000 miles.WTF!i should have murdered this car!from a dead stop i can outrun him hard but from a 30 roll he can almost pull me.these cars run like high 15 sec quarters i thought.is it my fuel system?carb?cam?no way do i need nitrous,this car should be a real high 11 sec at least.what now?i thought that i need a bigger carb but this carb went 12s in a truck.fuel system?should i upgrade to electric?holley blue?i know heads are big but the torque is awesome.please dont flame me on the heads i know everybody think they are crap.i also have a set of dart 308cc iron eagle heads but i would like to keep things light in the front.my wheels and tires are weld pro stars 15x8 with 295/50-15 mcrearys out back.the engine just does not pull hard on top.this is my first big block build,but i am an avid 400 small block builder and own a 10sec street turbo regal.never really tuned or built big blocks so i figured i would ask the pros.

An 87 4WD pickup weighs a tad more than 4000#. The motor you are describing is not likely to get that truck into the 12's without everything else being right. What is your tranny? How about rear gears? The heads are a little big. Have you even been to the track or are you just worrying about what ricer you can embarass on the street? It's not the same type of contest. I wasted an 03 vette Saturday at T&T but that was with slicks from a dead stop. From a "30 roll" I wouldn't be ahead of him for very long on the street. I think you are ngoing to need more motor along with a matched combo to get to low 11's.

okay...we won't tell you the heads are too big...Most turbo Supras run quicker than 15 seconds. Most of the Import street racers around here all want to run from a roll, it takes a bit for them to spool up, thats when they will suprise you. I ran a 11 second turbo Honda at the track, smoked him off the line running 10.55 to his 11.53, yet he ran 1-2 mph faster than I did.

this is a 88 supra not one of the newer ones with all the power, these have like maybe 150hp

And you believed him when he said it was stock? Bwaa ha ha!

Untill you run it at the track or on a chassis dyno I'm not willing to say that there is anything wrong with what you have.

You really need to tell us much more about the total combo; gearing, converter, etc., etc.

There is nothing wrong with a mechanical fuel pump, all I run in my 496 is a Carter 172. Now if your car is laying down on the top end then that would signal some issue or another. If this is the case then start from your fuel tank forward. Check the fuel sump strainer, it is nylon and with age can literally melt and restrict flow. Are you trying to feed this engine with a 5/16" line? That won't work.

Tell us more.

Thomas

What transmission (if auto what stall?) and rear end gear are you running ? If you have an automatic then roll racing is going to be tough because I'm assuming the Supra is a 5 or 6 speed manual so his combo stays in an optimal power range (like Bob said he's spooled and ready to go at 30mph) whereas your car is most likely out of it's power band from a 30mph roll if it's an automatic. Also, you may need more aggressive rear end gear to get those rpms up quick.

In addition, there are alot of guys here running normally aspirated big block chevelles in the 10's (and quicker) so getting your camaro in the 11's should be somewhat easy. FWIW, I would stick to the race track and not worry about what your car does from a roll. If they ask you to race tell them to meet you at the track and then take them to school, sounds like your car does well from a standing start.

Welcome to the club. My car "should" be a high 11 second ride too, but it is a slow piece of junk. From my experience with "street" cars is build a motor you think will run 9's and it might get you into the 11's.

Welcome to the club. My car "should" be a high 11 second ride too, but it is a slow piece of junk. From my experience with "street" cars is build a motor you think will run 9's and it might get you into the 11's.

Has anyone else noticed the guys on here with the really fast time slips are the ones that spend most of their time at the drag strip tuning their cars. I'm talking the entire setups (suspension, stall, tires, etc.) not just engine tuning. My combo is similar to alot of guys running 10's but I know my first time out it will most likely run 13's.

i am by far no stranger to fast cars.i have even owned a z06 vette and viper in the past.plus i am a prompt builder of ls1 engines,just not big blocks.cody is right its a 88 supra with around 150 stock horses.my trans is turbo350 with 2500 stall.plans are for one of my art carr 2004r trannies to be installed soon or a doug nash 5 speed.yes i know the heads are big but like i said i have alot of torque.air velocity must not be that bad.and yes the truck ran 12s in columbus ohio.nobody had belief in the guy so he has proven himself several times.thats the only reason i bought the engine.yes the car was stock i stopped and wanted to admire his car and searched all over it,no signs of mods,not even a filter.my car feels fast,very fast.but no top charge,doesnt feel sluggish,trans not slipping,makes all the I WILL EAT YOU muscle car noise.fuel line is stock,would that restrict me that much?what size?i figured my car for at least 375 ponies to the rear and i bet its not making 250!i dont have any quarter mile tracks around here,just eighth mile.just to let you guys i usually dont street race,i guess this guy wanted to know what his car would do.there is a question in this months super chevy where this guy has a 502 and replaced cam and intake and has only 350 to rear wheels.i know big blocks make power there is proof here.

For less than $100 you can take it to a dyno and have the Air/Fuel ratios and HP/Torque curves to show you exactly what it's doing. Well worth the money IMO - if you're running lean, bad converter, whatever - it will show you where you are with the current combo.

okay...we won't tell you the heads are too big...Most turbo Supras run quicker than 15 seconds. Most of the Import street racers around here all want to run from a roll, it takes a bit for them to spool up, thats when they will suprise you. I ran a 11 second turbo Honda at the track, smoked him off the line running 10.55 to his 11.53, yet he ran 1-2 mph faster than I did.
not all turbo cars are fast!my 87 regal was a pig stock.now i have a 10 sec timeslip with not alot of real science.just some recipe work from the turbo regal site.i bet my carb and mufflers are holding around 50 horses.i am going to get 950 hp and straight through hookers to see if i gain.might take it to get dyno tuned.

why not take it to the track and see what it runs after some tuning

well my car is,well underpowered.its a 454 .030 2349 pistons,pro comp heads,rpm intake,rpm hydraulic flat cam,roller rockers 1.7,750 vacuum holley,hedders are 1 3/4,2 1/2 full exhaust with dynomax turbos.car is 70 camaro.i am on quest for low 11s.i bought this motor used,went through and freshened up with all new rings and bearings.this same engine ran 12.92 in a 4000lb 87 chevy four wheel drive truck,trust me i seen it with own eyes!car has killer bottom end torque more than i thought with 330cc heads.only difference is i am running a mechanical fuel pump from summit.i pulled up next to a STOCK 88 turbo supra at a 30mph roll and i expected to pull him hard and i cant.we cant pass each other.i swore the dude built his engine but i stopped him and its stock with 122,000 miles.WTF!i should have murdered this car!from a dead stop i can outrun him hard but from a 30 roll he can almost pull me.these cars run like high 15 sec quarters i thought.is it my fuel system?carb?cam?no way do i need nitrous,this car should be a real high 11 sec at least.what now?i thought that i need a bigger carb but this carb went 12s in a truck.fuel system?should i upgrade to electric?holley blue?i know heads are big but the torque is awesome.please dont flame me on the heads i know everybody think they are crap.i also have a set of dart 308cc iron eagle heads but i would like to keep things light in the front.my wheels and tires are weld pro stars 15x8 with 295/50-15 mcrearys out back.the engine just does not pull hard on top.this is my first big block build,but i am an avid 400 small block builder and own a 10sec street turbo regal.never really tuned or built big blocks so i figured i would ask the pros.

Don`t take this the wrong way...but guy...I stopped reading near the half way point!

It`s hard to read it all when it looks like one big sentence.

Use caps, punctuation marks, comma`s etc and break things up a little, your posts will be easier to read that way.

Without measuring performance before and after changes are made it's difficult to know if your making any real gains (I'm in the same boat). If it feels sluggish up top maybe it's too lean, try some bigger jets and see if you can feel a difference. Also, see if someone you know has a bigger carb you can test with as well. If we were closer to each other I'd let try the Holley 850 that's on my engine, I will be pulling it next weekend because I bought a 950HP.

Don`t take this the wrong way...but guy...I stopped reading near the half way point!

It`s hard to read it all when it looks like one big sentence.

Use caps, punctuation marks, comma`s etc and break things up a little, your posts will be easier to read that way.
Sorry buddy.Just tried a quick reply.proper typing and writing is far from my mind sometimes.i guess just lazy and too anxious at the same time.

Don`t take this the wrong way...but guy...I stopped reading near the half way point!

It`s hard to read it all when it looks like one big sentence.

Use caps, punctuation marks, comma`s etc and break things up a little, your posts will be easier to read that way.

:hurray::hurray: It made my eyes hurt :D

I fixed some of the problem.Timing was off,only had 10 initial.Bumped to 14 initial and it came alive but only having 29-30 total.Wtf?How can i fix that?

I fixed some of the problem.Timing was off,only had 10 initial.Bumped to 14 initial and it came alive but only having 29-30 total.Wtf?How can i fix that?

See, a little tuning and your on the way. What distributor do you have HEI, points, etc.? I have an MSD and its real easy to change the advance curve. All I have to do is change the advance bushing and adjust initial timing. If you have a typical GM HEI than you will most likely have to send it out to be recurved or get instructions from someone here.

For now I would bump up your initial timing another 6 to 7 degrees, that would bring your total to around 36. If you don't have a problem starting the car hot or a ping at part throttle (or at full throttle for that matter) then leave it like that, but make sure you pull a spark plug to check for detenation after the change.

dont believe the guy you were racing .he may be telling the truth or he may be bull shirting you.take the car to a track and see what it is running then you will know for sure.i was at a car show and was asking the owner about his car and he was telling what it would do and that it was a 350 with intake and cam .the first thing i did was to ask him why he was running a 400 balancer then he laughed and said you caught me.you cant out run everybody all the time unless you have a unlimited bank account ,real lucky ,and alot of suppension know how .just my two cents worth on the race part anyways.

I was almost worried that this was going to be one of those posts where none of the advice would be acted on - good for you for checking on the timing.

Whats going on is simple, your distributor has 15 or 16 degrees of mechanical advance, probably the way I would have set it up myself. Now just add in another 6 degrees of initial advance and you should be good to go. Yes, I really do want you to set it for 20 degrees initial advance. That will give you 35 or 36 degrees total advance. I run mine at ~ 24 degrees initial, with another 16 degrees of mechanical advance. You too may find that your engine likes 38 degrees +/- of total advance. A lot of performance big blocks like to have a lot of advance right away.

Running 26 degrees of total advance cost your engine a LOT of horsepower - more than 50 easy.

Oh yeah, maybe you are in a hurry or lazy, but if you use your internet posts and replies to polish your writing skills it will rub off into other aspects of your life. It will improve the way you talk about anything, both individually or in front of a group. You will find that it is quite nice to have people pay more attention to you when you talk - virtually always good writers are good speakers.

Good luck.

Thomas

I was almost worried that this was going to be one of those posts where none of the advice would be acted on - good for you for checking on the timing.

Whats going on is simple, your distributor has 15 or 16 degrees of mechanical advance, probably the way I would have set it up myself. Now just add in another 6 degrees of initial advance and you should be good to go. Yes, I really do want you to set it for 20 degrees initial advance. That will give you 35 or 36 degrees total advance. I run mine at ~ 24 degrees initial, with another 16 degrees of mechanical advance. You too may find that your engine likes 38 degrees +/- of total advance. A lot of performance big blocks like to have a lot of advance right away.

Running 26 degrees of total advance cost your engine a LOT of horsepower - more than 50 easy.

Oh yeah, maybe you are in a hurry or lazy, but if you use your internet posts and replies to polish your writing skills it will rub off into other aspects of your life. It will improve the way you talk about anything, both individually or in front of a group. You will find that it is quite nice to have people pay more attention to you when you talk - virtually always good writers are good speakers.

Good luck.

Thomas
?

dont believe the guy you were racing .he may be telling the truth or he may be bull shirting you.take the car to a track and see what it is running then you will know for sure.i was at a car show and was asking the owner about his car and he was telling what it would do and that it was a 350 with intake and cam .the first thing i did was to ask him why he was running a 400 balancer then he laughed and said you caught me.you cant out run everybody all the time unless you have a unlimited bank account ,real lucky ,and alot of suppension know how .just my two cents worth on the race part anyways.
I sort of know the guy and his car is stock save for a apc fart pipe.I know i will get outrun but by a 200 horse car,no way!I feel i could pull him now but for what i got i should destroy his car.I feel i should be putting at least 400 horses to the rear.everybodies desktop dyno suggests 500-535 flywheel,20% loss= about 400 to the rear.Soooo,i am losing something.Maybe i stand to gain around 30 horses with carb and straight through muffler change.Maybe even a .600 lift solid cam is possible.This might be a pro touring car someday also so a roll on is important to me.Trust me i dont like street racing,anything can happen.Now the nitrous is not to outrun on the street.I have always liked the stuff so this was planned from day one.

I was almost worried that this was going to be one of those posts where none of the advice would be acted on - good for you for checking on the timing.

Whats going on is simple, your distributor has 15 or 16 degrees of mechanical advance, probably the way I would have set it up myself. Now just add in another 6 degrees of initial advance and you should be good to go. Yes, I really do want you to set it for 20 degrees initial advance. That will give you 35 or 36 degrees total advance. I run mine at ~ 24 degrees initial, with another 16 degrees of mechanical advance. You too may find that your engine likes 38 degrees +/- of total advance. A lot of performance big blocks like to have a lot of advance right away.

Running 26 degrees of total advance cost your engine a LOT of horsepower - more than 50 easy.

Oh yeah, maybe you are in a hurry or lazy, but if you use your internet posts and replies to polish your writing skills it will rub off into other aspects of your life. It will improve the way you talk about anything, both individually or in front of a group. You will find that it is quite nice to have people pay more attention to you when you talk - virtually always good writers are good speakers.

Good luck.

Thomas
Will that be too much initial?I already run good gas but 20 initial seems much.You have a 10sec car though so you must know something.

I'm running 26 initial and 36 total with my street driven 87 octane 454. As long as it starts ok and doesn't ping give it as much timiang as she'll take.

Just read through these posts. I have a 489 in my 68 Camaro with the Brodix RR Rect heads and Isky solid roller with 256/260. .680/.680. I originally had a 327 in the car with the 5/16 inch fuel line. You said your's was stock so I am assuming 5/16, or 3/8. I put 1/2 inch line from the tank to the carb, and my car pulls like a beast! I too have 22 initial and 40 total without any problems. I talked to a lot of guys on here when I was building my motor (Thank you all!), and all said to go with at LEAST 1/2 line (8-AN). Some even suggested 10-AN, which I think is 5/8. It seems these big motors and big cams love lots of fuel and air. Not sure what size cam you have, but with 330 cc heads your are getting the air, but may not be getting the fuel with stock line. I also run the Carter 172 mech pump. Just saying if your car feels lazy at the top, this could be ONE of the reasons. Put that with not enough timing and you'll really be slow.

Patrick

I sort of know the guy and his car is stock save for a apc fart pipe.I know i will get outrun but by a 200 horse car,no way!I feel i could pull him now but for what i got i should destroy his car.I feel i should be putting at least 400 horses to the rear.everybodies desktop dyno suggests 500-535 flywheel,20% loss= about 400 to the rear.Soooo,i am losing something.Maybe i stand to gain around 30 horses with carb and straight through muffler change.Maybe even a .600 lift solid cam is possible.This might be a pro touring car someday also so a roll on is important to me.Trust me i dont like street racing,anything can happen.Now the nitrous is not to outrun on the street.I have always liked the stuff so this was planned from day one.


don't believe desktop dynos either. they are usually may more than optimistic when it comes to HP numbers.

1bad, I'll bet that the previous owner of your engine was running more initial, and more total advance than you started out with - your total of only 25 or 26 degrees was really hurting total power and throttle responsiveness. If you start checking out guys with cars that really run the number, you will find most of them at ~ 20 degrees initial advance, with another 16 or so mechanical advance. Its a good way to go on a built engine, more so on a big block.

Why on earth would you want to run factory initial timing when you now have big port heads and a much bigger camshaft? When you start changing the power making components of an engine then it calls for a lot different tuning. I'm sure that you understand that your high performance carburator is jetted a lot different than the original Qjet - and so it is that the timing curve must also be a lot different.

Here is the "science" behind tuning a lot of initial advance and a quick timing curve into your ignition: your oversize ports and large camshaft have slowed down the low rpm airspeed through your ports and into your cylinders. One of the primary factors behind how much timing is needed is the airspeed of the intake charge. With a slower than stock low rpm airspeed because of the big camshaft and oversize ports, the ignition needs more of a headstart to start building max cylinder pressure. Lower airspeed means a slower ignition event. Ignition is a chain reaction after the initial spark is lit - how fast the flame front travels.

Try bumping it up like I suggested and I'm pretty sure you will be very happy.

Now once you get the timing curve straightened out your next move should be to check the fuel supply, especially if it still feels like it is laying down on the top end. As suggested you may have an inadequate line size, or perhaps another fuel flow restriction.

Let us know how it turns out with 36+ degrees total timing. If it still lays down in high gear, start another topic with that issue.

You'll get there.

Thomas

Well i adjusted so i have 36 total.Also,solved another problem.All mty carb nuts were finger tight.Huge vacuum leaker.I just ordered a new quick fuel carb yesterday and it should be here today.Ordered the new 950 hp.Test drive after timing and vacuum leak felt promising but it still doesnt pull like i thought it would.Well too i am used to very fast cars.I am supposed to ride in a buddies 468 67 firebird that is supposed to be a 10 sec car.He keeps bitching that i need fuel fuel fuel.

He may be right, right, right!!! Go at least 1/2" from tank to carb.

All mty carb nuts were finger tight.Huge vacuum leaker.Test drive after timing and vacuum leak felt promising but it still doesnt pull like i thought it would.Well too i am used to very fast cars.

Don't tighten those real hard, they just need to be snug. I cracked the base plate on my 650 DP when I had a small block.

Problem almost solved.Read my carb post please!