Having a bit of trouble installing my stock distributor. Can't get it to slip the last 1/8" or so. The oil pump slot has moved with my trying to get it in. Have the original service manual. I understand about removing the #1 plug and cranking it to find TDC. The manual then says position the rotor toward the front and drop it in slightly counterclockwise. "Hold it firmly down" while cranking the engine over to let it drop into the oil pump slot.
Never had to do this in the past. Any other "tricks" to get the slot lined up?
Have tried to re-position with a screwdriver - no luck.

Thanks,

John
1965 Malibu 283

John,
Hold it down firmly and have some one bump the starter, it will drop right in and be in the right place. I can usually get them to go by moving the oil pump shaft with a screwdriver, but its easier to just put it and bump it.

...or hold the dist, and have someone turn the balancer bolt clockwise with a breaker bar, till the oil pump shaft engages.

Thanks guys,

Will go at it tomorrow.

John

Follow either of the two posts above and you are guaranteed sucess =)

The way I have done it is to turn the oil pump shaft with a screwdriver and try putting in the distributor. After 5 tries I drop the screwdriver into the hole and go to bed. The next morning I retrieve said screwdriver and start over. That usually works. I suggest taking the advice fo BillK.

lol

Take a long piece of 1/2" EMT (electrical metal tubing), and drill a hole towards the end. Then insert a cotter pin, and bend the ends over around the tube.
This will serve as an excellent tool for turning the oil pump drive shaft.

Probably took me about 15 minutes to fabricate this tool, and I'll never be searching for a tool to turn the oil pump drive shaft again or fishing a screwdriver out of the engine.

Nate, is that your finger?

Thumb and finger

why?

Couldn't he just use a pre-oiler? Although Mr69's method is cheaper if you don't have one. I think I paid $20-something for mine and it has the machined aluminum collar that fits nicely in place of the distributor.

JWagner's method is even more fun if you have at least one neighbor come over and watch you work while drinking beer and offering not only advise on your project, but life advice as well. It will do wonders for your concentration.:clonk: Mine usually looks so dissappointed when he realizes the shows over for the night.

Greg

I've always used a big screwdriver to point oil pump the slot towards #1 cylinder and never have droped it yet (knock on wood)
I don't think it would even be possible to drop my big screwdriver down in the engine but maybe so.

Once in a great while I have bumped the starter but usually I just pull the distributor back up and rotate the pump slightly and drop it again so I can keep the engine at TDC.

At the risk of being accused of endlessly repeating myself I will once again give this advice :

Go to your friendly autoparts store and buy one of these "Remote Starter Buttons.

Pull the "S" purple wire out of the wiring harness near your brake master cylinder, shave just enough insulation off of the wire so that you can see the copper wire inside. Next clip one of the 2 alligator clips to the purple wire making sure that the alligator clip is in contact with the copper inside that purple insulation. Finally clip the other lead to your battery +.

Now you can bump the engine over with the button until your distributor matches with the slot in the oil pump and the distributor will drop obediantly that pesky last 1/4" onto the oil pump.

Believe me ANY other method is MORE work and your success ratio will be significantly less with respect to how many tries it takes to get the distributor installed correctly.

Beyond the distributor situation there are a myrid of jobs that this tool will aid you with. Rotating the engine to get torque converter bolts into working range is a snap. Compression testing likewise. For $15 you would be hard pressed to buy a tool that is more valuable in your tool box.

As I have said in past posts ; I have used the button and a screwdriver to reinstall my waterpump belt several times beside the road when I have over wound my engine and tossed the belt.

It is an invaluable tool for so many tasks.

The reason I use the breaker bar on the balancer bolt method, is because, although it is unlikely, you can break the little tab off the oil pump drive by cranking the engine over, with the key or a remote switch, That jolt, can break it, and you DON"T want that. A good friend who's done this a million times at his shop, taught me years ago to use the balancer bolt and drop the dist in gently. Once it's engaged, it can take the punishment of the running engine. Turning the engine over slowly with a wrench, will never break it.

The reason I use the breaker bar on the balancer bolt method, is because, although it is unlikely, you can break the little tab off the oil pump drive by cranking the engine over, with the key or a remote switch, That jolt, can break it, and you DON"T want that. A good friend who's done this a million times at his shop, taught me years ago to use the balancer bolt and drop the dist in gently. Once it's engaged, it can take the punishment of the running engine. Turning the engine over slowly with a wrench, will never break it.

I'll back you up on that 100%.
I think there is a chance you'll do some kind of damage by cranking it over to get the dist and shaft to mesh.
I don't think that is a good idea.
Just use a long screwdriver or fabricate a tool like I did.
Heck, I've even used a hacksaw blade once when I was in a jam.

BTW, if you can't turn your oil pump drive shaft easily, you've got problems in the pump. You'll get some resistance because of the oil in the pump, but it should never be enough to keep you from turning it.

The way I have done it is to turn the oil pump shaft with a screwdriver and try putting in the distributor. After 5 tries I drop the screwdriver into the hole and go to bed. The next morning I retrieve said screwdriver and start over. That usually works. I suggest taking the advice fo BillK.

LMAO! :D That's the way I do it too, usually while trying to reach the distributor hole underneath a heavy hood with sagging springs, looking down the hole with a flashlight with fading batteries, and of course using a lot of bad language. I just bought a remote starter, so I hope that will make it easier next time.

I have never heard that you can break the pump like you say, Bill. The whole shaft assembly takes quite a load at full RPM, so I can't see how it could break just by bumping the starter?

LMAO! :D That's the way I do it too, usually while trying to reach the distributor hole underneath a heavy hood with sagging springs, looking down the hole with a flashlight with fading batteries, and of course using a lot of bad language. I just bought a remote starter, so I hope that will make it easier next time.

I have never heard that you can break the pump like you say, Bill. The whole shaft assembly takes quite a load at full RPM, so I can't see how it could break just by bumping the starter?


I fully agree. Break the shaft of the oil pump? Hogwash. You guys talk like the assembly is delicate. What a load of crap.

Do it whichever way you want. I'll use the button every time. Sounds to me like someone just wanted to be contrary. Nothing unusual about that on this site.

I fully agree. Break the shaft of the oil pump? Hogwash. You guys talk like the assembly is delicate. What a load of crap.

Do it whichever way you want. I'll use the button every time. Sounds to me like someone just wanted to be contrary. Nothing unusual about that on this site.

Soooooo, I pass along some insight, a mechanic friend told me, (who was a Chevrolet dealer service manager) about the potential of breaking the tab off the oil pump drive when bumping the motor, and that is creating controversy? When someone posts a question for discussion, there are usually going to be different ways guys suggest doing things. The guys reading the answers can make up their own minds about whether they want to take the advise or not. It's really not worth getting upset about different suggestions you might read about a certain topic. I thought we were here to try and help each other with problems we might encounter with these 40 year old cars, not to trash someone because you don't agree with their advise.

Worked on it today with no luck. Lucky I'm retired with nothing better to work on! Here's the deal. Bought a reman from NAPA # NRD48-1835 to replace my old Mallory dual point for ease of tuneups, etc. A new MSD or Pertronix distributor is not in the picture now. The reman body has 1112005 stamped on it. My Interchange Manual says thats for a 1968-72 small block. The 1959-65 283 says 1111015. NAPAOnline, however, lists #NRD48-1835 for all years.
I do have an oiler and that slips in easily. Frustrated today, I re-installed the Mallory and everything is back to normal.
Everything measures up fine between the 2. Just bugs me that the reman unit work slip in. Even tried some motor assy lube to try and stabilize the oil pump slot. Was to hard trying that idea.
Will visit NAPA Monday and maybe get a refund and think about a Pertronix Igniter Kit.
Thanks for all the suggestions!
John

Try this instead of the Pertronix- www.breakerless.com (http://www.breakerless.com)
Single wire hookup (you can use the resistor wire), thorough instructions, and [b]SUPER[b] customer service. Mine's been trouble free for 3 years now.

BTW, I agree with Bill Rose. The odds are greatly in your favor that the pump tab won't break, but if it does, then you're gonna have to pull the motor or the pan & replace the pump.
BillL

Soooooo, I pass along some insight, a mechanic friend told me, (who was a Chevrolet dealer service manager) about the potential of breaking the tab off the oil pump drive when bumping the motor, and that is creating controversy? When someone posts a question for discussion, there are usually going to be different ways guys suggest doing things. The guys reading the answers can make up their own minds about whether they want to take the advise or not. It's really not worth getting upset about different suggestions you might read about a certain topic. I thought we were here to try and help each other with problems we might encounter with these 40 year old cars, not to trash someone because you don't agree with their advise.


Not to be argumentative but I defy you to find one case of a broken oil pump tab from bumping an engine over with a remote starter button while matching the distributor drive to the oil pump slot. ONE EVER in the history of the SB chevrolet engine where there wasn't some other contributing factor. Like a frozen oil pump or a piece of debris etc.

As I said there is always someone who knows the aunt of a guy that stepped on the toes of the grandfather of the guy who watched an oil pump tab break once in 1956 while bumping his brothers motor over with a remote starter button.

Dude, I gave a good piece of advice. Let it stand please. Let the noobs see a really good way to accomplish an otherwise difficult operation with a minimum of fuss. Quit trying to scare the new guys with ""(who was a Chevrolet dealer service manager)"". type BS.

If I had a dime for everything I have been told I can't do because the "Chevrolet Certified Mechanic" said its not a good idea i'd be a rich man.


As it is I have a really fine running Chevelle and I do it exactly the way I advise here on Team Chevelle.

Dude, Let it stand.

Now you finally have some good advise. Dude..

Once again I agree with Mr 69. I like to get the distributor in with out turning the motor over. Hey just a tip. if you need to get to the copper part of a wire for what ever reason don't cut the insulation away. If you do it will become a problem down the line IMO. Stick a Bobby Pin through the wire then clip you're device, switch, meter leads etc on to the Bobby Pin.
Hows my spelling Nate?
Mike

When the distributor is pointing at #1, the slot on the oil pump should be horizontal. Before I EVER remove a distributor, I always make sure its on #1 just to make life a little easier when dropping it back in. I remember it was pointed on #1 easier if it ends up out of the car for a while. So with that said, the distributor shaft should be facing with the slot in that direction with the rotor pointing to #1 (other direction will be 180 deg off). I have never personally had a problem with one dropping into place.

Not to be argumentative but I defy you to find one case of a broken oil pump tab from bumping an engine over with a remote starter button while matching the distributor drive to the oil pump slot. ONE EVER in the history of the SB chevrolet engine where there wasn't some other contributing factor. Like a frozen oil pump or a piece of debris etc.

As I said there is always someone who knows the aunt of a guy that stepped on the toes of the grandfather of the guy who watched an oil pump tab break once in 1956 while bumping his brothers motor over with a remote starter button.

Dude, I gave a good piece of advice. Let it stand please. Let the noobs see a really good way to accomplish an otherwise difficult operation with a minimum of fuss. Quit trying to scare the new guys with ""(who was a Chevrolet dealer service manager)"". type BS.

If I had a dime for everything I have been told I can't do because the "Chevrolet Certified Mechanic" said its not a good idea i'd be a rich man.


As it is I have a really fine running Chevelle and I do it exactly the way I advise here on Team Chevelle.

Since you're so smart, let me ask you this.
How much work is involved in replacing the oil pump drive shaft if it was to break????

Uh huh, that's what I thought.
You'd be pulling the engine out.

I wouldn't risk it, myself.
Why be so lazy?
Just move the oil pump shaft with the proper tool. Real simple. Nothing broken.

I guess some of us are smart enough to avoid a problem before it happens.

Not getting in on the disagreement but has anyone here ever actually seen an oil pump shaft break?

I've never trusted the plastic colar couplings but never broke one.

Not getting in on the disagreement but has anyone here ever actually seen an oil pump shaft break?


Yes Dean, it has happened. The friend of mine who told me about this 20 years ago, worked as a mechanic for a large Chevy dealer, then as the manager, and now as a body shop owner. He used to help me with purchasing crate motors for two Step-Vans I used in my business. In the beginning he would help me install the motors until I could do it myself. Thats when he told me about the policy they had against bumping the dist down by cranking the motor. They had broken a couple on the new crate motors, and wound up pulling The oil pans , or sometimes the motors to fix them. I'm sure it was costly for such a simple fix.

As the two parts are engaging there is only a small section which is engaging at that split second as it's dropping, and that when the tip can break off.

It just something I've always remembered, and stayed away from. Some guys don't want to learn something new for some reason. This advise was simply put out there to try and avoid a major problem when finishing up a motor/dist installation. I personally don't care how "dudes" do it. I'm always happy to learn new things about these old cars, but no matter what is said here, there is always gonna be a critic.

[QUOTE=Dean;1067901]Not getting in on the disagreement but has anyone here ever actually seen an oil pump shaft break?

QUOTE]



Mr. Rose, I apologize for calling you "dude". Henceforth I will refer to you respectfully as Mr. Rose.

That said, the question was : ""
has anyone here ever actually seen an oil pump shaft break?""

Once again your answer was hearsay.

20 years ago I had been a mechanic for 25 years. Now at the ripe old age of 63 I have been a mechanic for 45 years. During all this time I have worked for several GM dealerships including "Iten Chevrolet" located in Brooklyn Center, Mn. I have worked as a line mechanic in that dealership and also an Oldsmobile dealership in the same community. I have worked as a "line" mechanic in a host of other garages as well. From 1981 to 1986 I owned and operated "Charette's Auto Repair". Charette would be me BTW.

In all of that time I have NEVER heard of or seen the particular problem you speak of while "bumping" any motor over to get a distributor to engage the oil pump intermediary shaft.
.

In my years as an auto mechanic I have rebuilt several hundred automobile engines of just about every make available here in america whether foreign or domestic. I have also done a similar number of transmissions, differentials, brakes.........ad infinitum. I dug into my first engine around 1957 or so. All of which I did as a "line" mechanic. I will assume that you don't know what a "line" mechanic does. A "Line" mechanic only does the hard stuff. He isn't sent "squeaks and rattles" for example, if you take my meaning.

And just recently I advised in this thread that it was both acceptable and handy to use a "Remote starter button" to "bump" an engine over to get the roll pin in the base of the distributor gear to align and drop into the groove of the intermediate shaft which would allow the distributor to drop down against the intake manifold in its proper position.

You chose , Mr Rose, to dredge up some hearsay someone told you 20 years ago purported to be from an "official" source like a service manager of a dealership and present it here so as to negate the perfectly acceptable advice gave that I have PERSONALLY gained from over 4 decades of "line" mechanical experience. And then you have the gall to refer to me as a "critic".

Ok sir. I will be your "critic". Go ye forth and get some first hand "visible" evidence that verifies your position. But don't you dare tell me that I am wrong because you heard some hearsay from some guy 20 years ago.


]I KNOW what I am talking about because I have "walked the talk". If you cannot do the same thing Mr. Rose then please don't contradict that which I KNOW from decades of empirical experience to be factual.

I wrack my brain every time I give advice on this site to give the very best of my experience in a readable form so that the guys who are trying to get their cars running as well as mine does, especially those who are young and don't yet know how to assemble and tune their cars as I do.

I put an enormous amount of my personal time researching those facts about which I am unsure or which are sufficiently distant in my memory that I feel the need to do "refreshing" research. I treat every thread I engage in with honesty and respect.


What I don't do is repeat hearsay as fact, especially that which is 20 years old and undocumentable.


There is absolutely NO danger of breaking the tangs of a SB or BB intermediate oil pump shaft by bumping the engine over a few degrees at a time with a remote starter button until the roll pin in the distributor gear indexes properly with the tangs of the oil pump intermediate shaft.

If the tangs get broken then there is some other contributing factor that has not been addressed during the engine assembly and a broken oil pump intermediate shaft will be the least of that engine's problems.

Thank you Mr. Rose...with all due respect.

The only time I have seen an oil pump shaft break was on a dodge. The oil pump siezed and the shaft twisted off. In regards to the distributor not fitting could the oil pump shaft have been changed at sometime to an aftermarket performance part? This may be why a stock distributor will not fit. I know that some of the small block medium duty trucks had a different shaft and car distributors would not fit. Ask me how I know!

wow.... I'm amazed at how long this is going, and where.

It does kinda sound like there is soemthing screwy with the original poster distibutor that could be preventing it from dropping down...since one will and the other won't.... Do you have a spare oil pump drive shaft laying around? Does that fit on the new one?

When you drop in the distributor, the helix gears turn it just about the distance from one wire tower to the next. So you start with it one wire off from where it should be (that's 2 teeth on the cam gear, you can feel em). The oil pump drive engages when it's about halfway in. So if the oil pump shaft is turned one tooth CCW from where it "should" be, it will engage, and the distributor will drop all the way in.

This is a lot harder to do than it sounds tho. Just bump the starter. Don't push down on the distributor tho. The pressure alone may turn the oil pump and it will never engage. Just let go and bump the key. It will fall in, every single time. (assuming all the parts actually fit, did you check before you assembled the motor?)

And I agree completely with Chabilly. That thing ain't gonna break.

Sorry to cause all the verbal havoc over my install problem. Will get back to it on Tuesday. I did notice today that the roll pin below the gear was sticking up a fraction. Grasping for straws, I banged it down flat with a ball peen hammer. Will remove the Mallory and try one more time before taking the unit back. I'm not a mechanic by trade, but have tinkering with cars for 45 of my last 65 years.

John

Hillybilly is right. I'm going to throw my tool away right now.
I've only been using it for 15 years, not 45 :rolleyes:
I should have known better than to keep it around this long.

Hillybilly is right. I'm going to throw my tool away right now.
I've only been using it for 15 years, not 45 :rolleyes:
I should have known better than to keep it around this long.

Name calling not only is childish, it reflects back on the "caller" not the "callee" :clonk:

Everyone has their own way of doing things and everyone has the right to accept experience from others or not except it.

Like I said, I just like to keep the engine on TDC until I'm ready.
I was doing it this way before some of y'all were born. (not that that makes my way the best way)

Name calling not only is childish, it reflects back on the "caller" not the "callee" :clonk:

Everyone has their own way of doing things and everyone has the right to accept experience from others or not except it.

Like I said, I just like to keep the engine on TDC until I'm ready.
I was doing it this way before some of y'all were born. (not that that makes my way the best way)

ok, I'll try not to act childish, Deanie Weenie:D

I'm with c-billy on this one. I've seen oil pump tangs broken but never the drive tang on the extension that goes into the dist. Also seen those plastic sleeves break without hurting anything. I like the extension with the metal sleeve. You can tell that was the first design because the bean counters hadn't gotten to it yet. You guys are making WAY to big of a deal out of this. Are some of you in government?

Nope , not government. It Just chaps my ass when somone caps on advice that I give that I know damn well is good advice and uses as his authority some "alledged hearsay "advice" someone told him 20 years ago which , of course, is un documentable.

One of the last human creatures I will ever rely upon for advice is some "service" person in a GM garage from 20 years ago. I have way too much experience with those "experts" to place any value on their "knowledge".

Been there , watched them work , know better than to trust what they say.

This is officially my last word on this thread. I shall move on to more productive pursuits and continue to help my fellow Chevelle owners as best as I can. Thanks all for your patience.

I'm 117 years old, and I invented the internal combustion engine. And if your distributor doesn't seat back down fully when re-installing, the only proper thing to do is replace the engine.

I think what JohnM really needs to know is: it doesn't make any difference where the dist sits as long as you put the wires in right. Most people, and the factory, have chosen putting the rotor pointing to about 7 o'clock @ #1 TDC because that is the way the wires fit the best coming out of the cap.

Also, with the dist cap off, twist the rotor: whichever direction the rotor twist, or advances in, is the direction the rotor turns while running. This is another thing that applies to all engines so you know which direction the dist turns without having to refer to a manual.

Some other ignitions things to know:

Use either carbon core or spiral wound plug wires; solid wires are too prone to inductive cross-firing and radio/ignition box interfernce. Carbon core works well when new.

Point triggering with a newer CD ign., like MSD, is not as bad as some people make it sound. Eliminating the points with LED's or Hall effect switch does not eliminate the slop from the rear of the crankshaft to the rear of the camshaft. Divorced spark with a trigger in the middle of the crankshaft is probably the best. (Back in the 60's I discussed CD's and points with Smokey Yunick, suggesting that building a CD box that would generate sparks 45 degrees apart without releying on a distributor would be a good idea. Smokey thought that could be done. Shortly after, that kind of system was offered on Buicks.)

Seems to me that just about everybody runs plugs that are too cold, thinking that they need cold plugs to ward off pre-ignition/detonation. Those problems are caused by wrong timing and mixture more often than plugs. Some think that if they are having those problems that it is CAUSED by the plugs. Not so; the plug just tells you that something is wrong and you need to address it. Plug porcelins should be white, or close to white, when the mixture and timing are correct. If you have jetted and timed for best performance and your plugs are coming out black, you need to move up a couple grades hotter. You engine will like that. Plugs need to run hot enough to create a good spark kernal.

As usual, I'm rambling. I get caught up in these things.

LMAO! :D That's the way I do it too, usually while trying to reach the distributor hole underneath a heavy hood with sagging springs, looking down the hole with a flashlight with fading batteries, and of course using a lot of bad language. I just bought a remote starter, so I hope that will make it easier next time.

I have never heard that you can break the pump like you say, Bill. The whole shaft assembly takes quite a load at full RPM, so I can't see how it could break just by bumping the starter?

reminds me of a tuneup i did on my geo tracker in the middle of know where.......

i just use the old distributor shaft i use to pre-lube, the one with a gound off collar part (no gear) roll pinned to it and a mark on the top end scratched into it denoting the position of the drive tang thingee and position it to line up a lil' behind to account for the gear turning as it drops down onto it, it never misses, or i'm just lucky, no, that can't be it.

btw, doesn't one "walk the walk" after "talking the talk"?...j/k :)
if it works for you, i say go with it. and who knows better than you what works for you?.