A few nights ago I had a couple of young mad scientist type car crafters come over and put a hydroboost from a 3/4 ton Chev truck orig. equipt with a v8 diesel. You have to be careful now because slamming on the binders will put you through the windshield. On drum brakes. No bs.

HB will do that! I was thinking of using a unit from a truck as well, but didn't want to go through the hassle of fabbing up a mount for the unit. And the kits they sell are way expensive.

I see a lot of people converting to hydro boost, especially the pro-touring crowd. I'd just like to put out a word of caution with HB however. If your engine dies unexpectedly (it happens) your steering and brakes will be incredibly stiff. In a dangerous way. I had a buick regal with the 350 diesel and the engine died one day in an intersection, I broke the steering column trying to turn into a parking lot, and couldnt hardly stop once I got there. Possibly later models had some sort of bypass valving for safety or something, but I know mine was very scary.

The Punisher

I see a lot of people converting to hydro boost, especially the pro-touring crowd. I'd just like to put out a word of caution with HB however. If your engine dies unexpectedly (it happens) your steering and brakes will be incredibly stiff. In a dangerous way. I had a buick regal with the 350 diesel and the engine died one day in an intersection, I broke the steering column trying to turn into a parking lot, and couldnt hardly stop once I got there. Possibly later models had some sort of bypass valving for safety or something, but I know mine was very scary.

The PunisherI appreciate the heads-up on that since I've just ordered a hyrdoboost for my car. I guess in light of what you're saying about the power steering belt operation becoming critical to stopping the car, the emergency brake becomes all the more important too. Although, I'll concede that in a panic stop situation, reaching your left foot over to stomp on the emergency brake pedal isn't a natural reaction in a panic stop, and quite often, you wouldn't even have the time to do that anyway.

If the engine dies and you have a newer style hydroboost with a reserve accumulator, no big deal-- you still get a couple stops with assist until the accumulator gives up. And if that gives out the car will stop just like a standard power brake (vacuum) car that the engine has died-- it reverts back to a purely manual setup and will require corresponding more pedal effort since power brake setups usually use a pedal ratio that makes for reduced foot travel but greater input effort requirements.

As far as the hard steering when the engine died on your example, that's strictly because the engine was dead. Car would have been just as hard to steer even without a hydroboost with the engine off since the PS pump wouldn't have been running.

With ANY power brake setup it comes without saying that when the engine dies expect to push harder. Just how much harder depends on your brake setup (MC bore size, calipers, pedal ratio, etc.)

The accumulator was possibly not part of the system I had on the old buick. But I can for say this about the system that was on my car, it was not like having a conventional system and a dead engine, been there done that hundreds of times, no big deal. But with the hydroboost system THAT I HAD steering and braking were almost impossible. Its possible the system I had caused problems and was fixed in later years, as I found it totaly unbelievable that such a setup could have possibly made it to market.
I'm not trying to be negative or anything, i just dont want to see anybody hurt or some nice cars wrecked. Please do check to see if your HB system allows safe control in the event of a failure.

The Punisher

How much did the truck set up run you? I've been wanting to do that switch but I can't seem to get past the crazy prices of the kits. Can you get some pictures of the final product?

How much did the truck set up run you? *snip* Can you get some pictures of the final product?

+1 that

I haven't a clue how to post pictures on the web. But, I will take a picture and if you guys talk me through it, I would be pleased to post a picture tommorow.

Its not too complicated. You can use a free hosting site like imageshack or something like that. click browse in the imageshack window, find the picture you want to host, highlight it and then "host it". After that, the website will offer you several strings of code that you can paste in a comment window that will make your picture appear either as a thumbnail or actually in the comment section.

Howcome it stops a car so much better? I realize its great for cars with a huge cam, and gives amazing pressure. But if you can lock up your tires at speed with normal brakes, how could more pressure help? Maybe im missing something but seems to me your tires/suspension would be limiting factor. Someone educate me.

Howcome it stops a car so much better? I realize its great for cars with a huge cam, and gives amazing pressure. But if you can lock up your tires at speed with normal brakes, how could more pressure help? Maybe im missing something but seems to me your tires/suspension would be limiting factor. Someone educate me.I'm thinking that it must require less pedal effort, and less pedal travel too. But that's a guess on my part since I cannot speak from experience on the hydroboost brake thing (yet).

I'm thinking that it must require less pedal effort, and less pedal travel too. But that's a guess on my part since I cannot speak from experience on the hydroboost brake thing (yet).

perhaps just sensitivity... unless you have some huge brakes and are stopping from 150 mph. Maybe someone else will enlighten me.

It's also not hard to adapt a Ford Mustang booster. There's info on my website.

One difference is that it takes some movement to activate boost power. A vacuum booster takes more movement than does a hydro booster. Thus you get braking action sooner with the hydro boost. I have one, along with big brakes, on my newer daily driver and it just feels good and confidence inspiring.

Once you are at the modulation state you are pretty much correct in that it should be more about how well the tires keep from sliding.

If the engine dies and you have a newer style hydroboost with a reserve accumulator, no big deal-- you still get a couple stops with assist until the accumulator gives up. And if that gives out the car will stop just like a standard power brake (vacuum) car that the engine has died-- it reverts back to a purely manual setup and will require corresponding more pedal effort since power brake setups usually use a pedal ratio that makes for reduced foot travel but greater input effort requirements.

As far as the hard steering when the engine died on your example, that's strictly because the engine was dead. Car would have been just as hard to steer even without a hydroboost with the engine off since the PS pump wouldn't have been running.

With ANY power brake setup it comes without saying that when the engine dies expect to push harder. Just how much harder depends on your brake setup (MC bore size, calipers, pedal ratio, etc.)


Ummm, actually, i've seen it a few times and ask someone who has been through it. Stopping a non-running car with hydroboost (and no compressed canister) and stopping a non-running car with a vacuum booster are two WAY different situations! I had a friend who crahsed his nova (had a hydroboost) because his motor shut off and he thought the same. Well, after the canister was empty he was STANDING on the pedal (lifting himself off the seat, and he was not a small guy by any means) and we watched as his car hit the wall (he was in the car yard at the shop). They are by no means the same!

i believe the reason for the improved brakeing is precision. a car most effectivly stops at the point exactly befor you lose traction and skid. this is much easier to do with a power assist and the more power to assist you that you have the easier it is to more precisly come as close to this point without breaking traction. brakes, suspension, road conditions, weight and many other factors also come into play but pertaining to this factor this is the cause of the advantage.

Ummm, actually, i've seen it a few times and ask someone who has been through it. Stopping a non-running car with hydroboost (and no compressed canister) and stopping a non-running car with a vacuum booster are two WAY different situations! I had a friend who crahsed his nova (had a hydroboost) because his motor shut off and he thought the same. Well, after the canister was empty he was STANDING on the pedal (lifting himself off the seat, and he was not a small guy by any means) and we watched as his car hit the wall (he was in the car yard at the shop). They are by no means the same!

I've been through the situation too-- over the years I've ran my car with manual brakes, a vacuum booster, and now a hydroboost. Given the exact same car & brake setup except one installation uses a hydroboost and one uses a vacuum booster, once the engine dies and the reserve is depleted after a couple power-off stops (be it the accumulator on the hydroboost or the vacuum booster) both cars will be equally as hard to stop.

The power-off stopping problem can be compounded by a setup with a very poor pedal ratio or caliper sizing that depends nearly totally on the power assist device to do the stopping; the pedal ratio, MC size, and caliper size can be so unfavorable in a poor application that it would be nearly impossible to stop the car without power assist. I've found this true of a lot of older GM cars, even the vacuum boosted models, if you lose the power assist for whatever reason the car becomes nearly impossible to stop even two-footed. This can be overcome by going to a system that relies more on foot pressure and using less assist; because then when you lose the assist the difference in required pedal pressure to stop the car isn't quite so huge as with an "overboosted" system. Typically systems with really light pedals with the engine running will be darn near impossible to stop should you lose the assist because nearly all the braking force is being provided by the assist device, with little force being sourced from the driver's foot.

On my latest setup with the hydroboost I have a reasonable MC bore size and I also have the hydroboost using a better pedal ratio (it's hooked up to the manual-brake hole in the brake pedal); even if I kill the engine and lightly pump the hydroboost a couple times to drain the accumulator I can still stop the car very well with just foot effort.

You are correct though, on a non-accumulator hydroboost as soon as the engine dies it would be akin to stopping a car with a vacuum booster that has a bad check valve on the booster.

Accumulator? Whatsit look like?

The power-off stopping problem can be compounded by a setup with a very poor pedal ratio or caliper sizing that depends nearly totally on the power assist device to do the stopping; the pedal ratio, MC size, and caliper size can be so unfavorable in a poor application that it would be nearly impossible to stop the car without power assist.

Words to live by for any power assist system.

The bad rap that comes with many aftermarket power assist systems is due to poor system design. For example, if your car needed a 13/16" bore MC in manual mode to operate the brakes, then you changed to an assist system with a 1-1/8" bore MC, the power-off+no reserve braking requirements go up 92%. Why use this example? The 13/16" is what is supplied by many aftermarket braking companies using C4 calipers. 1-1/8" is supplied by many booster companies since it is the most popular and accessible size. It's all in the system design. When in doubt, call the manufacturer of the booster. If they say "huh?", run away.

The accumulator is the cylindrical can sticking out the front of the booster. Mine will make 2-3 good stops in power-off, and hold the reserve for over three weeks while in the garage. Even with power-off and no reserve it will stop fine, but requires more leg to get it done.

The accumulator is the cylindrical can sticking out the front of the booster. Mine will make 2-3 good stops in power-off, and hold the reserve for over three weeks while in the garage. Even with power-off and no reserve it will stop fine. Well then why don't you tell us what brand it is that you have, and perhaps who sells them? I'm asking you that, because I'm getting the impression that they aren't all created equal.

The accumulator is the cylindrical can sticking out the front of the booster.

The pic below is of the one that I have on order froma place called Power Brake Service. Is this what you're talking about? What I mean is, does this one in the pic below have an accumulator? It's that gold can in the pic, right?

Correct, and as mentioned in an earlier post, information on my system can be found on my website.

Well then why don't you tell us what brand it is that you have, and perhaps who sells them? I'm asking you that, because I'm getting the impression that they aren't all created equal.
Calm down dude... I am not sure why this thing came up at all because every hydroboost I have seen has a pressure accumulator on it. And I have looked/pondered a bunch wandering around the yard.

If you think about it and look into this kinda thing, you come to realize that for critical systems like braking and steering the OEMs do consider and design in fault tolerance. Thus the vacuum reserve of a vacuum booster and the pressure reserve of a hydrobooster. Thus the effective use of mechanical and hydraulic leverage before requiring boost. There really was a lot of thought put into how these cars were designed. Where many go wrong is not putting anything close to an equivalent amount of thought into the changes they make and their impacts.

Correct, and as mentioned in an earlier post, information on my system can be found on my website.Thanks Carl. And BTW, NICE Camaro!!! And what you did with the lower A-arms to get those shocks through the bottom of them, is the same thing that I've been thinking of doing to my 70 Chevelle to install the double adjustable QA-1 front shocks that I just bought. I don't know how you did such a neat job of that, but the openings in the A-arms on your car look like they came from the factory like that. Nice work!!

Thanks for the compliments on the car Billy. And.....

I don't know how you did such a neat job of that, but the openings in the A-arms .....

$19.95 Harbor Freight die grinder, a file, and some spray paint :thumbsup:

Thanks for the compliments on the car Billy. And.....



$19.95 Harbor Freight die grinder, a file, and some spray paint :thumbsup:Yes, I had planned on using a die grinder on mine too, but you did such a neat job that it looked to me like you had it machined. U-Da-MAN. :thumbsup:

Beautiful camaro. Not a huge fan of the red interior, but as you said, I can see how it could grow on you. Very unique.