You can read about my electrical woes here:
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144738

Right now I am working on her in the street. I am trying to get her up and running. She will turn over (although I may have ruined the starter) but dies at idle.

I have also been getting sporadic explosions I assume from the carb.

I believe it is a Holly carb, edelbrock performer RPM, 350. All the hoses seem to be connected.

At a loss as to where to start fixing this. I am hoping it is nothing major. i am dealing with electrical issues now but have made some progress. Just dying to get her up and running so I can drive down to OPG and get some much needed parts.

Also, I noticed this on the carb:
http://datapusher.org/teamchevelle/carb_plug.jpg

It apears to be a plug with two connectors that are just sitting there. Any clue what it's purpose is?

Thank you so much.

sounds like you have a vacume leak, recheck those hoses and make sure all vacume ports are connected or plugged. that "plug" is an electric choke, the prong is where it needs to be hooked up to a switched 12 volts. This could be your backfire problem, if the choke plate is not opening.

sounds like you have a vacume leak, recheck those hoses and make sure all vacume ports are connected or plugged. that "plug" is an electric choke, the prong is where it needs to be hooked up to a switched 12 volts. This could be your backfire problem, if the choke plate is not opening.

Checked all the hoses to the carb. They are good.

How would I go about hooking a switched 12 volts to the carb? Is there an adapter needed?

Thanks.

find a wire that is hot when the key is on, tap into that wire and connect to the tab with a female spade connector. you can also rig the choke flap open to see if it runs ok. the choke is only needed for cold starts.

find a wire that is hot when the key is on, tap into that wire and connect to the tab with a female spade connector. you can also rig the choke flap open to see if it runs ok. the choke is only needed for cold starts.

OK, find a wire that only is hot when the key is turned. I can do that. Either run it from the fuse box or jump the windshield wiper terminal.

Hrm, which one is the female connector? I think they both looked the same. But that is going off of memory and I am at work.

Once I hook it up to that connector, is that a permanent connection or only temporary for testing?

Does the other connector on the electronic choke remain empty?

Thanks for the help. Mucho appreciated!

the tabs on the electric choke are male connectors, you will need a female connector on the end of the wire that is hot when the key is on. hook it to the tab in the center of the choke housing. the other tab is a ground you can hook that up to any metal part of the engine. this is a permanent connection but I would just rig the choke plate open for now. these electric chokes also need adjusting to work properly and since you live in california you probably don't need one anyhow. I have no choke whatsoever on my Chevelle.

the tabs on the electric choke are male connectors, you will need a female connector on the end of the wire that is hot when the key is on. hook it to the tab in the center of the choke housing. the other tab is a ground you can hook that up to any metal part of the engine. this is a permanent connection but I would just rig the choke plate open for now. these electric chokes also need adjusting to work properly and since you live in california you probably don't need one anyhow. I have no choke whatsoever on my Chevelle.

i took a better look at the choke. there is one male and one female connector in the choke. The female is negative and the malle is positive.

I grounded the negative to the exhaust bolt on the headers.

I tried running a 14guage wire from the wiper motor to the positive tab. no dice. Everytime I put a fuse in that slot, it pops immediatedly. So on the fusepanel (http://datapusher.org/teamchevelle/fusepanel.jpg), whenever I put a fuse into the wiper slot, it pops. This happens with the key off. I thought that slot was for when the key was turned.

So guess I should locate the short. I am starting to get a little ticked off at the situation. i just want to get something to work. Make a little progress so I have something to show for me spending an entire week wrenching in the sun. Or am I just wasting my time at this point.

The problem I have now, is that the only location I can find where the power runs 12v when the key is on is the wiper motor and the coil. however, I don't want to mess with the coil. Although I think it is on the IGN FUSED tab as well.

However, whenever I put a fuse in the wiper slot of the fusepanel it blows right away.

What to do what to do...

Well this is no good!

I don't know what happened, but it still turns over from the starter. But it won't start now. this is a big change from her starting right away every time once I got the battery charged.

But the big problem was I saw a few fireballs come out of the top when I tried to turn her over!

The top inside of the carb caught on fire. I ran over and blew it out.

What the...

Please advise.

Hey are you the guy that wanted some help with looking a car over in Riverside a couple of weeks ago?

Hey are you the guy that wanted some help with looking a car over in Riverside a couple of weeks ago?

Sure am

anyone?

Jim, If the cab smoked up on the way home, I wont say the entire harness is fried but its hurt and it can be a real pain in the butt to trouble shoot this stuff and then theres the collateral damage too. After you fix it it always seems to haunt you down the line, IMO. If you have some money and access to a computer which you do, order a new wireing harness from OPG, If not OPG Iam sure you can get alot of opinions about maby a place that sells a higher quality harness. Get the dash and engine compartment as well as forward light harness. I did this a couple of times and it was well worth it. The first time was kinda scary untill I actually started doing it, It was not that big of a deal. Now when I did it the motor was out so I guess it would be a little more difficult to get access to certain places. Just take out the bolt in the center of harness at firewall plug in the new harness and start working your way around the motor. It will all make sense where the stuff goes. disconnect the existing wires as you get to each component, sensor etc. Then do the same in the cab. When you order the harness make sure you tell them if you have dummy lites ac etc.
Yes you will have to slightly modify the harness for that coil, but thats cake. When you hit the key and find juice on the right wire on a color that every one here would recognize ( or however you spell it ) and or a shop manual that you now undersatand better that wii be super easy. And best of all no more fires. It will be money well spent and A week end maby?

These old super sports are beat up pretty good at there age. Usually the wireing is f up because of 20 different stereos or different sets of guages and some times start fires or burn the car to the ground. Right!
Sounds like the wiring is already screwed up, just start fresh.
By the way I would have a look at the rear harness as well. It would be a shame to replace all above and have it start a fire LOL.
By the way I was one of the first guys that viewed your post about needing a person to look at that Chevelle in Riverside. I think it was like 4:30 am when I read it. By the time I got back from the gym at least 4 guys responded to your reguest. I felt so cheated and dirty.ROFLMAO:thumbsup:

:D Mike

Jim, If the cab smoked up on the way home, I wont say the entire harness is fried but its hurt and it can be a real pain in the butt to trouble shoot this stuff and then theres the collateral damage too. After you fix it it always seems to haunt you down the line, IMO. If you have some money and access to a computer which you do, order a new wireing harness from OPG, If not OPG Iam sure you can get alot of opinions about maby a place that sells a higher quality harness. Get the dash and engine compartment as well as forward light harness. I did this a couple of times and it was well worth it. The first time was kinda scary untill I actually started doing it, It was not that big of a deal. Now when I did it the motor was out so I guess it would be a little more difficult to get access to certain places. Just take out the bolt in the center of harness at firewall plug in the new harness and start working your way around the motor. It will all make sense where the stuff goes. disconnect the existing wires as you get to each component, sensor etc. Then do the same in the cab. When you order the harness make sure you tell them if you have dummy lites ac etc.
Yes you will have to slightly modify the harness for that coil, but thats cake. When you hit the key and find juice on the right wire on a color that every one here would recognize ( or however you spell it ) and or a shop manual that you now undersatand better that wii be super easy. And best of all no more fires. It will be money well spent and A week end maby?

These old super sports are beat up pretty good at there age. Usually the wireing is f up because of 20 different stereos or different sets of guages and some times start fires or burn the car to the ground. Right!
Sounds like the wiring is already screwed up, just start fresh.
By the way I would have a look at the rear harness as well. It would be a shame to replace all above and have it start a fire LOL.
By the way I was one of the first guys that viewed your post about needing a person to look at that Chevelle in Riverside. I think it was like 4:30 am when I read it. By the time I got back from the gym at least 4 guys responded to your reguest.

:D Mike

I liked the one in Riverside, but the guy was a little sketchy and was impossible to get a hold of so I went for the one in Fresno. Wish I would have had a Chevelles.com member with me on that one. Would have saved me the hassle.

I have already decided I am going to replace all the wiring with a harness from M&H or Factory Fit (based on this forum). It's just about cash right now. I just dumped a big chunk of it into a running car in "great shape." Now we all know that isn't the case. But things are tight and now it looks like my job might be ending soon. So I will definately rewire the car with a quality harness, it's just a matter of when I can afford it. For now I just want it running so I can see if there is any other work that needs to be done, oh and get to work. I have lived in cars before when i was younger for as long stretch, however even though the back seat in the chevelle is roomier, I'de rather keep my apartment :-)

What sucks is it looks like the engine harness and the dash harness are from M&H and reasonable new, but who knows what he did to them.

Do you have any idea why the carb caught on fire?

Do you have any idea why the carb caught on fire?
__________________________________________________ _


If it were me, I would go back to the basics of compression, fuel and ignition. Have all these and the engine should run..

Ignition timing is off , I would start there myself since you have wiring issues that seem to be related to ignition.

A stuck valve (non-operational valve) can cause backfire thru carb.

Fuel delivery problem with the carb as stated with the choke for example. But it was running, then had a wire fire, so that would lead me back to ignition.

Keep in mind, you also may have a double whammie, esp if you have a Holley carb. The backfire can and usually does blow the power valves in a Holley. You may have this problem now to figure out later.

So, I guess, where do I start on this... Where would I check for electrical issues on the Ignition timing and how do I inspect the power valve on ther holley?

Details:

Mallory Promaster Coil 28720

MSD Pro Billet Distributor Ignition part number 8360

Based on the number I found on the top front of the holley (80457) I believe it is a 600 double pumper

So, I guess, where do I start on this... Where would I check for electrical issues on the Ignition timing and how do I inspect the power valve on ther holley?

Details:

Mallory Promaster Coil 28720

MSD Pro Billet Distributor Ignition part number 8360

Based on the number I found on the top front of the holley (80457) I believe it is a 600 double pumper


I read thru alot of what you posted....sounds like alot of wire cleanup needs to take place as stated by others. When you got it started last and had dim lights, you were actually running on the battery it appears. The battery just starts the car...the car should run off the alt voltage (while it also charges the battery). No alt voltage and a weak, low charged battery and the car will not fire consistently, which is what it sounds like. This needs to be fixed first if it hasn't yet.

I'm not saying the power valve blew, but it would not be a shock if it did. It depends on how old the carb is. Right now, I would just focus on getting the car started.

This link will explain the holley 600 DP rebuild process. Take a look and see what you would be in for. Not difficult or any special tools. Actually an opportunity to clean the carb up.

http://www.kitcarmag.com/techarticles/142_0503_holley_600_carburetor_rebuild_tech/

I read thru alot of what you posted....sounds like alot of wire cleanup needs to take place as stated by others. When you got it started last and had dim lights, you were actually running on the battery it appears. The battery just starts the car...the car should run off the alt voltage (while it also charges the battery). No alt voltage and a weak, low charged battery and the car will not fire consistently, which is what it sounds like. This needs to be fixed first if it hasn't yet.

Actually when I got the battery charged and turned it over, the lights were bright as hell. But of course, it was a new charge.

I have the new SI alternator hooked up and in there solid. I am waiting for a friend to show up and help me push the car across the street and then we are going to go to autozone to get a fire extinguisher and new fuel hose (I accidently cut it with the fan belt).

To be honest, my wiring of the alternator should be good, however it is kind of mickey mouse. 3 wires same color electical taped together around the radiator to the alternator. But what else can I do to test things until I get my harnesses.

My fear of starting the car up to test the alternator is catching the car on fire from that carb. I was lucky enough to be able to blow out the other fire. That is what the extinguisher is for. But this is really bugging me. Seeing a backfiore is one thing, but the top of the carb with flames going kind of put me in check.

As for the electric choke, I still have no juice going to the wiper motor. Should I jump the wire for the electric carb from the IGN FUSED from the fusepanel?

i will read that article when I get home. i like all the pictures, helps explain. Now that is a 600, will all models of the six hundred have the same rebuild proceedures?

As always, thanks.

Actually when I got the battery charged and turned it over, the lights were bright as hell. But of course, it was a new charge.

I have the new SI alternator hooked up and in there solid. I am waiting for a friend to show up and help me push the car across the street and then we are going to go to autozone to get a fire extinguisher and new fuel hose (I accidently cut it with the fan belt).

To be honest, my wiring of the alternator should be good, however it is kind of mickey mouse. 3 wires same color electical taped together around the radiator to the alternator. But what else can I do to test things until I get my harnesses.

My fear of starting the car up to test the alternator is catching the car on fire from that carb. I was lucky enough to be able to blow out the other fire. That is what the extinguisher is for. But this is really bugging me. Seeing a backfiore is one thing, but the top of the carb with flames going kind of put me in check.

As for the electric choke, I still have no juice going to the wiper motor. Should I jump the wire for the electric carb from the IGN FUSED from the fusepanel?

i will read that article when I get home. i like all the pictures, helps explain. Now that is a 600, will all models of the six hundred have the same rebuild proceedures?

As always, thanks.


Yeah, the flames kinda makes you tense up just a little. Most everyone has been there.

For sure, never, ever play with the fuel and ignition without a fire ext close at hand. Seen a guy burn his house up pretty good just checking for spark in the garage, with a fuel leak...on a lawn mower no less.

DO NOT spray that fire ext into your carb unless you get a halon type.. You will hate yourself trying to clean it out after. I also wouldn't worry about hooking up the electric choke at this point. Just make sure the choke is open (probably is already open since you got it that way). Put the air filter on and try to start it up. However, you do need to find out what fuse blew to keep power from the wiper motor distribution point.

The Holley rebuild is pretty easy to do. Buy a rebuild kit (has power valve, accelerator pumps, gaskets, etc) and a metal pan and spend a few hours cleaning it up with cleaner. Do it with a clear mind sure helps. Not the time for beer. The trick kits also have detailed instructions for rebuilding. Since your doing this, spend a few dollars (they all say that) and buy some new vacuum line. Unless they are new, they may look good, but fine age/heat cracks and they will leak...another cause for what you are experiencing.

Well i wired the + terminal of the electric choke to the IGN FUSED on the fusepanel. I confirmed it is getting 12 volts when they key is on.

However, this elusive Halon fire extinguisher is a nusence. I called Pep Boys, OSH, Autozone and none of them have it. Where do you suggest I look for one. I am not turning the car over till I have one.

Also, if the backfires hurt the carb, shouldn't I wait to find the problem before I rebuild the carb? otherwise I would rebuild it and then screw it up all over again the next time there is a backfire out of the carb.

UPDATE!

I called a friend over to man the fire extinguisher. Fired her up right away. Turned over and died. Then I tried her a few more times. She would spin, but not start. So I checked the new fuel line that i put in to make sure it wasn't to tight. i gave a few tugs on the carb lever to verify gas was getting to the carb. Put the air filter back in and fired her up. She started and I reved her and kept her reving high for about 2 minutes. Then I took my foot of the gas and she kept running, but barely.

So I am back to where I was a few days ago.

She will start up, didn't get any backfires out of the carb, and I checked the juice coming to the dash and she is getting 14.68 volts when she is running at a fast idle. So the alternator I put in is working.

So now I am not sure where to go from here.

Any input would be great.

Thanks as always

At this point, since she is running, I would check timing. Get (borrrow) a timing light and see where your at. make sure you shoot it while the car is both at idle and running at about 3000 rpm so you can see idle timing and full advance. As you rev up, your timing should advance.

At this point, since she is running, I would check timing. Get (borrrow) a timing light and see where your at. make sure you shoot it while the car is both at idle and running at about 3000 rpm so you can see idle timing and full advance. As you rev up, your timing should advance.

It will be a little hard to check the timing at idle since it is so rough. And I am not really sure about the tach being acurate but I will do my best.

I am headed off to Sears to pick up some craftsman tools. Which timing light should I buy:

Craftsman Timing Light, Inductive (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Mechanics+Tools&pid=00921027000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Automotive+Testing+Equipment&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes)
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Mechanics+Tools&pid=00921027000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Automotive+Testing+Equipment&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

Craftsman Timing Light, Inductive Advance (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Mechanics+Tools&pid=00921023000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Automotive+Testing+Equipment&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes)
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Mechanics+Tools&pid=00921023000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Automotive+Testing+Equipment&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

Thanks

I'm not familiar with Craftsman timing lights, but you may speak with a few others on here for the recommendations. I would think either one would be fine for what your doing.

The main thing to check with the timing is to see where your at while above 2500 rpm or so to see full advance, be it vacuum or mech advance, bepending on what you have.

If I were you, I would also pick a a vacuum gauge if you don't have 1 already. Pretty cheap, yet very helpful. Get some numbers from vacuum and timing and these guys can tell you a whole lot about how that engine is running.

At this point, your idle issues may be just some tweaking on the carb.... if your lucky. Me, I'm never that lucky. It always has to be the worst case problem.:clonk:

I'm not familiar with Craftsman timing lights, but you may speak with a few others on here for the recommendations. I would think either one would be fine for what your doing.

The main thing to check with the timing is to see where your at while above 2500 rpm or so to see full advance, be it vacuum or mech advance, bepending on what you have.

If I were you, I would also pick a a vacuum gauge if you don't have 1 already. Pretty cheap, yet very helpful. Get some numbers from vacuum and timing and these guys can tell you a whole lot about how that engine is running.

At this point, your idle issues may be just some tweaking on the carb.... if your lucky. Me, I'm never that lucky. It always has to be the worst case problem.:clonk:

I'm with you on that. I'm a major pessimist. But I have hope. The thing HAS to run eventually. On the plus side, I am learning a lot in the process. i just wish i could drive it around. Starting to get looks from the neighbors now.

I am pretty sure I have a vaccuum advance. I have a little housing coming out of my distributor that connects via tube to my carb. Would that be vaccuum advance?

I have a Mallory Promaster Coil #28720 and a MSD Pro Billet Distributer Ignition #8360.

Ok so anyone who knows timing, which timing light would be best for my needs? See above.

If they work, this looks like just what I need.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/tls/211132664.html

whatcha think?

Also, I decided to adjust the curb idle screw a little past 1/8 turn maybe a 1/4 clockwise.

It will start and idle roughly, but if i give her some gas she will even out and idle at two lines over 1000. Smells rich though. And keep in mind I am suspect on the tachometer.

So I huess I will leave it where it is at now till I get a timing light.

Any words of advice so far?

Looks like a pretty good deal, if it's close and the tools work.

Looks like you have a plan.

i took a better look at the choke. there is one male and one female connector in the choke. The female is negative and the malle is positive.

I grounded the negative to the exhaust bolt on the headers.
.



Get rid of that "negative" wire. The choke is grounded, by the screws and that metal ring around the choke housing, directly to the carb. The wire you have to the header bolt is probably the culprit that was blowing your wiper fuse.

I haven't blown a wiper fuse since I replaced all the electrical about a month or so ago.

Really, take off that ground? Why would they have the terminal there if it wasn't needed?

I haven't blown a wiper fuse since I replaced all the electrical about a month or so ago.

Really, take off that ground? Why would they have the terminal there if it wasn't needed?


Because the choke housing is grounded to the carburetor. Look at the housing. Somewhere on the circunference of the housing should be a metal tab that is in direct contact with the ring that traps the housing to the carb. If its there then it is the ground path to the carb. If its not then I was wrong and you have my profound apologies. <knuckles forelock "umbly>

I am not calling you out or doubting you, just trying to understand why. i'll look tommorow.