hi everyone.... well, i've had my driver's fender, hood, and filler panel in primer for the past 2 summers. supposed to get the whole car painted last winter, but ran into scheduling "issues" with the body shop, so we started talking about this winter..... but it looks like it's going to be the same story. i'm sick of the primer, so i'm seriously considering doing a home job.

here's the scoop.... the car is straight, the fender and filler panel which were replaced need a little bit of massaging to be straight. the rest of the car is a 3 year old paint job (thanks to the idiotic woman in the SUV who decided the car would look better in two colors). anyways, front end sheetmetal and doors need to be re-aligned a little bit.

i'm a design student at college in boston, and build musical instruments, so i have experience with spraying, wet sanding, blocking, bondo.... just not on this large of a scale. i'm going to need to buy all the equipment necessary to do this job(i may be able to borrow a decent spray gun and compressor that would be better for cars than my setup). i would like to do a nice base/clear job in my marina blue mettalic.

what equipment and brands do you guys recommend i get/use to do this job right? and how much can i expect to spend? i was hoping to keep it under $1500 (under $1000 would be even better) for equipment.

thanks guys..... matt

Painting a car is easy...................the prep work is where the work is. Your paint will only look as good as the prep work I use a Binks spray gun (I prefer a regular gun vs. a HVLP gun) Go to your local NAPA and ask the clerk for some pointers on gun and paint selection.

When the body work is done and you are ready to paint...........................block sand the car again...........then when you think it is ready..................block sand it again. (Get the point?)

Remove everything from your garage that you do not want to get wet and "Mist" the whole garage with a garden hose to settle any dust (Be careful not to splash in the wet floor as you paint.)

Start sparying the base cot in equal coats (follow advice from NAPA guy) using a tack rag between coats. Shoot the clear and wait until the clear is dry before attempting to wet sand any runs or imperfections out. Botta Bing Botta Boom.

You will be surprised at the results.......

------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/moabdad The reason for muscle cars & big trucks is for the power. Here is the theory I used: Power=Good

And do not forget that most modern paints contain ISOCYANATES, which are highly toxic and which a regular respirator will NOT protect you from... http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

------------------
71 Monte 454 HO 5-Speed "FULMNTE", 100 HP Nitrous
www.71Monte.com (http://www.71Monte.com)

what kind of protection do i need to keep from dying from this stuff?

I purchased a Sharpe HVLP Platinum (remanufactured) for 150 bucks.. It is by far the best purchase I have made. www.normieschevelle.com/bike (http://www.normieschevelle.com/bike) and also see my sig for the primer on my velle. It is powered by a 6 hp 33 gal craftsman compressor (on sale for 275 bucks) it keeps up pretty well with the gun (but does run alot) and produces favorible results. You can ask Dr. Gun for refurb/gun info at www.sharpe1.com (http://www.sharpe1.com) he should hook you up.. tell him I sent ya! You can buy a good resperator (3m with good filters) at your paint supplier I believe mine cost 22 bux.. the will filter out the bad stuff.. Make sure you keep the area well vented and you shouldn't have an issue!! Good Luck!

------------------
X-Ray View of my Chevelle :D (http://www.normieschevelle.com/sideview.jpg)
Getting Closer (http://www.normieschevelle.com/passfull.jpg)
my baby in primer (http://www.normieschevelle.com/prime/primerdrv.jpg)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by normie:
You can buy a good resperator (3m with good filters) at your paint supplier I believe mine cost 22 bux.. the will filter out the bad stuff.. Make sure you keep the area well vented and you shouldn't have an issue!! Good Luck!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

NOT!
There are no filters for ISOCYANATES! (please let me know if you find one...)
Isocyanates are contained in a normal paint respirator only for a very limited amount of time. And when the seep through into your lungs, you won't even recongnize it, cause they are odorless. The only reliable protection is the use of a supplied fresh air system, ususally a full face mask with fresh air supply...

If you do not believe me, read this website www.paintucation.com (http://www.paintucation.com) or do a search on the internet.

You might get away painting a car here in there without adquate protection. However, there are two effects:

1. Long Term: Isocyanates can cause respiratory problems YEARS after you were exposed to them since they are not "digested" in your body
2. Short Term: If you are sensitive to Isos (and mostly you do not know this in advance), you can have severe respiratory reactions even when spraying only one car.

And yes, people have DIED as a result of exposure to these substances. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/frown.gif

Just my opinion, but better safe than sorry. (I used an enamel paint without Isos (hardener) to repaint my car. Not show quality, but respectable)

------------------
71 Monte 454 HO 5-Speed "FULMNTE", 100 HP Nitrous
www.71Monte.com (http://www.71Monte.com)

At the min. I would use a full face respirator with organic vapor cartidges
and the hepa prefilter attatched. Then I would change out the cartriges in between
coats or every 30 min. here is a good ref.
(PDF)

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?qqqqqq&8iBEqKUrq1UrqqqfQvaLMnnme-


[This message has been edited by turbo (edited 10-25-2002).]

turbo,
I can't see this link...

Boy, I hate to get in on this one. But listen, "organic vapor" filters DO by all means filter out isocyanates. The ONLY reason they were banned by the government agencys is that they are too easy to abuse. If you have facial hair, they don't work. If you don't fit them correctly, they don't work. If you use it a little too long (8 hours use time) they don't work. They couldn't leave it up to the dumb consumer. With fresh air systems they almost can't screw up.

MOST painters still do not use a fresh air system, MOST like 90 percent.

I cannot quote all the things I have read on the subject but if you use a charcoal respirator correctly it WILL protect you. No, you can't smell isos BUT you can smell the solvents, if you can smell the solvents, you are smelling the isos.

If you are doing a lot of painting at home (many projects) go a head and invest in a Hobby air for around $400.00 (autobodystore.com) but if you are going to paint one car, use a charcoal respirator bought at the auto paint store fit it well, have good ventilation in the "booth" and paint.

------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MARTINSR:
If you use it a little too long (8 hours use time) they don't work. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know it is exactly 8 hours and not 1 hour or 20 minutes? Are you aware that you can absorb Isos through your skin and eyes as well? Do you know that the odorless Isos leak through the charcoal absorbent quite a while before the other "smelly" organic solvents? The charcoal does not have the same absorbing efficiency for Isos as for other organic vapors.

Also, usually, you do not know ahead of time if you are sensitive to Isos, do you? Professional painters who do not use protection are just waiting for bad things to happen...

Read this: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/asthma.html http://www.mvric.nsw.gov.au/industry/ind_health_bod.htm

Again, just my 2 cents, better safe than sorry...? (Chemical Engineer speaking, having dealt with Isos in his professional career quite a bit...).

But then again, hey, it's your lungs and life that you put on the line... Might be better to save some money for the adequate protection and have the risk to deal with asthma for the rest of your life, right?

Just a question of what is your health worth to you... $22 for the respirator that could fail or a bit more for adequate protection (you can rent a supplied air system as well).


---------------------------------------------

Isocyanates are highly a reactive chemical typically found in the hardener of two-part paints and primers. Isocyanates are present in two forms, monomer and prepolymer. Frequently, the isocyanate monomer content is indicated in product data information, but this is only a small fraction of the total unreacted isocyanate present in hardeners. Both forms of unreacted isocyanate present a risk to health when they enter the air during paint or primer spraying.
There is a comprehensive history of illness among workers exposed to isocyanates. Sickness was noted among workers in Germany in the 1940's and deaths recorded in the 1950's. The major health effect from isocyanates is associated with the inhalation of unreacted airborne isocyanate. Exposure to these toxic chemicals can cause serious reactions from the extreme of mild irritation to disability to even death. Such exposure can cause coughing, chest tightness, fever, fatigue and sensitization. Sensitization means that further exposure to even very small amounts of isocyanates will cause distressing asthma-like reactions.
One exposure to a high airborne concentration or several exposures to lower concentrations may result in sensitization. There is no proven method for predicting whether any particular person will become sensitized due to isocyanate exposure. Isocyanates are probably the principal cause of occupationally induced asthma.
In May 1984, the Occupational Health and Safety Branch informed autobody shops that air-supplied respirators were required when spraying paints containing isocyanates. Testing by the Branch has shown that air-supplied respirators (such as our MC pump system) are also necessary when primers containing isocyanates are sprayed. Even priming jobs of less than 3 minutes duration conducted in the open shop will produce sufficient airborne isocyanate to present a risk of over exposure to the sprayer and other workers in the shop. All types of spray guns used to apply primers have been found to contaminate the open shop if a separately ventilated spray area or spray booth is not used. When spraying paints or primers containing isocyanates, the sprayer must wear an air-supplied respirator which is approved by the U.S. National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) as Type C constant flow or pressure demand.
How do isocyanates cause these sicknesses? Isocyanates, together with related compounds such as cyanogens and cyanamides, are chemicals of the cyanide and nitril class, which contain the CN group. Hydrogen cyanide and its soluble salts are a rapidly acting poison. The cyanide ion released in the human body will inhibit many enzymes. Acute exposure can cause death due to chemical asphyxia at the cellular level. Less exposure will cause temporary or permanent damage. Harming the human body, isocyanates can essentially damage the plasma and internal cell membranes.

------------------
71 Monte 454 HO 5-Speed "FULMNTE", 100 HP Nitrous
www.71Monte.com (http://www.71Monte.com)


[This message has been edited by FULMNTE (edited 10-26-2002).]

This is a very sensitive subject I know. But, the eight hours are what is on the package of the charcoal resperator made by 3M as well as SAS.

All of what you say is true, BUT it doesn't change a single thing from what I said. The cause for the regulations of fresh air systems is the MIS USE of the charcoal resporater. Find me anything that says the charcoal resperator CAN NOT filter isos. You won't so I will save you the trouble. It is the MIS USE of them that led to the rule.

The funny thing is even the guy with the fresh air system will get those "several exposures to lower concentrations" when they mix the paint, walk in long after the thing is painted to "check out the job" and so forth. IF the charcoal resporator were worn all the time while mixing (like I do) and anything there are vapors and flashing of solvents you would be safe.

Now, I don't want anyone to get hurt and that is why I post this other side of the coin. I KNOW, not think or bet, I KNOW that most home hobbyests are NEVER going to spring for a fresh air system, NEVER. They have a hard time justifing the extra $25.00 for wax and grease remover. I am not saying it is right, I am just saying that I KNOW they are going to use a charcoal resporator I KNOW this and so do you. Being that we KNOW this, I like them to know that the resperator should be fit well and properly used. That is the only reason I say this. I of course recommend the fresh air (autobodystore.com for the least expensive one I know) but being I KNOW not all will spring for the $400.00 unit I want them to understand how important it is to have good proper fit resperators.

These respirators are actually legal. They are legal when the exposure is low (up to 10 times the exceptable limit PEL permissible exposure limit for NO respirator). 3M sells these respirators for use with automotive paint, could they do that if they were not legal? The 3M disposable #07191 small, 07192 med and 07193 large (it is VERY important you get the right size) are LEGAL OSHA approved masks. They are NIOSH certified also. Now, 10 times the limit is pretty low I admit that and the fresh air system would be needed according to this guide line to paint a car in a garage with poor home made air control. But we KNOW guys will do it, some with no air movement at all. Now matter what we tell them they will not spend the money on the fresh air. It is sort of like giving condoms to high schoolers or needles to drug addicts. It rubs me the wrong way too. But we KNOW they will do it anyway.......

------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MARTINSR:
But, the eight hours are what is on the package of the charcoal resperator made by 3M as well as SAS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So it actually says on the package "8 hrs protection again paint with isocyanates"? I am sorry, I was not aware that such a respirator exists... not at my time when I dealt with TDI and MDI at a chemical factory. We had to wear supplied air and full body suits...


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Find me anything that says the charcoal resperator CAN NOT filter isos. You won't so I will save you the trouble. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No trouble, I actually did, read this:
http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/isocyanates/mdi/mdi.html
"Organic vapor cartridges without a particulate filter were not effective at removing MDI aerosols from air"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I am just saying that I KNOW they are going to use a charcoal resporator I KNOW this and so do you. Being that we KNOW this, I like them to know that the resperator should be fit well and properly used.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you that using a proper respirator is much better than using nothing at all. What I can not agree with is to say: "Go ahead, use a respirator only and you are safe"... But again, its not my lungs...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
I of course recommend the fresh air (autobodystore.com for the least expensive one I know) but being I KNOW not all will spring for the $400.00 unit<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fully agree with your recommendation. In our area you can rent the equipment for much less than $400...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>3M sells these respirators for use with automotive paint, could they do that if they were not legal?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is automotive paint and than there is automotive paint http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif. I am sure you are aware of the many types, lacquer, enamel w/o hardener (no isos!), urethane, other paint with hardener (isos!), etc.

If it says : guaranteed to protect from "automotive paint containing isocyanates" on the package and OSHA and NIOSH certifed for that use, I rest my case and bow my head to you... http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif Please let me know if this is true so I can change my recommendation for the future...

Here is what I saw published about 3M #07191:
"Maintenance Free Organic Vapor Half Facepiece Respirator Assembly may be used up to 10 OSHA PEL or applicable government standard, whatever is lower.NIOSH 42CFR84 approved. Recommended for spray painting lacquer and enamel"

Both lacquer and enamel do NOT contain Isos... http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif


For the time being, I just go with this publication:
"Because isocyanates cannot be smelled or tasted easily, NIOSH and OSHA require that painters use SCBAs (supplied air systems). Despite the feds' position, the MSDSs of some polyurethane paints suggest that ordinary organic-vapor cartridges will provide adequate protection against isocyanates. Ching Bien, an industrial hygienist with OSHA, reported that isocyanate manufacturers have tried to persuade his agency to soften its stand on SCBAs. Bien said OSHA isn't about to. "It's a very dangerous substance," he said."


------------------
71 Monte 454 HO 5-Speed "FULMNTE", 100 HP Nitrous
www.71Monte.com (http://www.71Monte.com)


[This message has been edited by FULMNTE (edited 10-26-2002).]

Are the respirators that Martinsr was talking
have the particulate filter that increased the filtering result considerably?I agree that a supplied air system is best but that study said that higher end filters with a particulate filter would remove greater than 99% of the MDI's.Unless you use the supplied air when opening,mixing,looking or whatever when the container is opened you're not doing yourself any good.I have learned something from this that I never really considered and that is just smelling the stuff when opening or mixing,for that matter just walking into the paint store should be considered dangerous.This has opened my eyes.

------------------
John 67ss
ACES #2887
Team Chevelle Gold #127
www.mylegacyforlife.net/67ss (http://www.mylegacyforlife.net/67ss)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FULMNTE:
There is automotive paint and than there is automotive paint http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif. I am sure you are aware of the many types, lacquer, enamel w/o hardener (no isos!), urethane, other paint with hardener (isos!), etc.

If it says : guaranteed to protect from "automotive paint containing isocyanates" on the package and OSHA and NIOSH certifed for that use, I rest my case and bow my head to you... http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif Please let me know if this is true so I can change my recommendation for the future...

Here is what I saw published about 3M #07191:
"Maintenance Free Organic Vapor Half Facepiece Respirator Assembly may be used up to 10 OSHA PEL or applicable government standard, whatever is lower.NIOSH 42CFR84 approved. Recommended for spray painting lacquer and enamel"

Both lacquer and enamel do NOT contain Isos... http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


FULMNTE, you are VERY right on this. I was just out in the back yard thinking about our discusion and this hit me like a brick. I had to come in here and post a "disclaimer" on my original mention of this.
[/B][/QUOTE]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FULMNTE:

For the time being, I just go with this publication:
"Because isocyanates cannot be smelled or tasted easily, NIOSH and OSHA require that painters use SCBAs (supplied air systems). Despite the feds' position, the MSDSs of some polyurethane paints suggest that ordinary organic-vapor cartridges will provide adequate protection against isocyanates. Ching Bien, an industrial hygienist with OSHA, reported that isocyanate manufacturers have tried to persuade his agency to soften its stand on SCBAs. Bien said OSHA isn't about to. "It's a very dangerous substance," he said."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You and I agree that the fresh air SHOULD be used. But I have to go back to my original point, with support of "MSDSs of some polyurethane paints suggest that ordinary organic-vapor cartridges will provide adequate protection against isocyanates" I have to repeat, You and I KNOW people will not rent(or even have the option to do so in their area), will not buy fresh air.
That being said, a properly fitting charcoal mask WITH the prefilters as described in your link and understanding of the dangers is much better than a mis use of the charcoal mask.

We will have to agree to disagree on the this.



------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MARTINSR:
I have to repeat, You and I KNOW people will not rent(or even have the option to do so in their area), will not buy fresh air.
That being said, a properly fitting charcoal mask WITH the prefilters as described in your link and understanding of the dangers is much better than a mis use of the charcoal mask.
We will have to agree to disagree on the this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fully agreed!!

BUT, you also quoted:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
...but if you are going to paint one car, use a charcoal respirator bought at the auto paint store fit it well, have good ventilation in the "booth" and paint.

If you use it a little too long (8 hours use time) they don't work.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I do not by any means agree with that unless you show me any proof whatsoever that a regular paint respirator protects you from isocyanates up to 8 hours!

Scientific fact is that ca. 5% of the population is hypersensitive to Isocyanates and most do not know that. If you got away with using a respirator only, you likely belong to the other 95%, and I congratulate you on this. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

So, lets just make one case (and I pray to god this will never be true):

A person reads your statements and belongs to the 5%. He paints his car with polyurethane using your recommended respirator. The Isos seep through the respirator after less than 8 hrs of use. He can't smell them since they are odorless. He develops severe asthma (or worse) after painting. He says: "Why did this happen, the guys on the Chevelle board told me that I am safe up to 8 hours with this respirator only..."

Would you want this? I suppose your answer is NO.

So lets stick with the facts:

- Both OSHA and NIOSH recommend a the use of a supplied air system when you use paint with Isos

- There is no OSHA/NIOSH approved respirator on the market which guarantees long-term protection against paints with Isos

- 5% of the population is hypersensitive to Isos and can develop severe health problems upon exposure

- People have DIED as a result to exposure to Isos.

So please agree with me on this recommendation whenever John Doe asks on this board "I want to paint my car myself":


If you use any paint with isocyanates for your car and you do not wear a supplied air system and adequate other protection, you do so at your own risk. A regular paint respirator is not considered adequate protection by both OSHA and NIOSH

If John Doe decides to paint his car without protection or only a respirator, it is HIS OWN STUPIDITY.

Agreed? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Damn, I sound like a preacher/teacher... http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

BTW: This is me after taking off the nitril gloves and painting my Monte in my garage with single stage enamel w/o hardener(no Isos) http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

http://user.icx.net/~akwetkus/painter2.JPG


------------------
71 Monte 454 HO 5-Speed "FULMNTE", 100 HP Nitrous
www.71Monte.com (http://www.71Monte.com)


[This message has been edited by FULMNTE (edited 10-26-2002).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 67ss:
...but that study said that higher end filters with a particulate filter would remove greater than 99% of the MDI's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The study says that MDI is not absorbed in the charcoal part. It is captured as an aerosol &gt;99% in the filter.

HERE IS THE POINT:
From the aerosol filter, the volatile MDI can just seep through the coal part of the cartridge and get to you!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I have learned something from this that I never really considered and that is just smelling the stuff when opening or mixing,for that matter just walking into the paint store should be considered dangerous.This has opened my eyes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am very happy about this... http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I have seen cases quoted where hypersensitive persons got severe asthma attacks when they came within 300 yards of an automotive paint shop!! Not funny...

------------------
71 Monte 454 HO 5-Speed "FULMNTE", 100 HP Nitrous
www.71Monte.com (http://www.71Monte.com)

I have stayed out of this till now because I knew there was a propensity toward a flash fire argument (Martinsr and fulmnte have handled yourselves well). I think the topic about filtration is a touchy one. You can get by using a filter mask (3M) if you have good circulation and you change filters regularly. There is a potential for things to go wrong even if you are using a fresh air system. No matter which safty precautions you take *Something* can always happen. The most important part you need to remember is take as many safety precautions that you can! After all we are all following "Recomendations" made by other people, wether they be FED's or your average body and paint guy! With ISO's you are taking a risk just opening the can.. If you rent a fresh air system you are taking a risk that it isn't faulty and the shop keeps the equipment serviced and proper, if you buy a fresh air system you are taking a risk that you couls have a defective unit.. There are risks no matter what.. Just do yourself a favor and be as damn careful as you can!!!!

------------------
X-Ray View of my Chevelle :D (http://www.normieschevelle.com/sideview.jpg)
Getting Closer (http://www.normieschevelle.com/passfull.jpg)
my baby in primer (http://www.normieschevelle.com/prime/primerdrv.jpg)

Normie, you have said more than FULMNTE or me. Do your very best to protect yourself.

FULMNTE, this is the very reason why I never get into this particular subject. It is like discussing war with Iraq. The thing is we are both right. You are more right on what I should say though. I will word it like this from now on.

"Any product with isocyanates should be treated with extreme caution. A fresh air system is the only OSHA approved way to safely spray any product with Isocynates in it. If you were not to use a fresh air system, you are taking a chance with your health. Furthermore, If you choose to use a charcoal resperator instead of a fresh air system be sure that it is new, the correct size and properly fit. If you have ANY facial hair, shave it off. But still, I have to recommend a fresh air system"

How is that?

------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

FULMNTE, by the way, in your photo you are not wearing eye protection. Your eyes are like an open wound and take in stuff darn near like breathing it. It also looks like your head sock is down around your mask, again this creates a leak just like facial hair.

Even though it has no isos doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated the same. You see, there is a lot of room for discussion.


------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

FULMNTE; try this, but you need acrobat reader or other pdf file cabable program installed

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?ddddddNLXpsdyHedrHedddhC7Pz9b5h 7-




[This message has been edited by turbo (edited 10-26-2002).]

Turbo, the page says "You are not authorized to view this page". What is it?

------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

I hope this don't seem stupid. After protecting myself from the iso's, and venting them out of garage, what keeps them from affecting my neighbors. Cal

sorry, its just a link to a section of 3m's
web site, i will post a pic later of the setup i use which is about the best you can do with out an air- supplied setup I use the covers that snap over the cartrige which have provisions for the pink hepa filters,
instead of just using the prefilters, I feel comfortable doing 1 or 2 cars over several years with this but I am taking the risk
I can't say its ok for anyone else. Just change the cartriges out often they do work but don't last very long with some chemicals.
they are cheap when you condider your health.

72sselcamino, BINGO, the only thing that can protect your neighbors is you conscience!

I have made it REAL clear to my neighbors that if they EVER smell anything or hear anything that they don't want to hear or smell, TELL ME. I will stop immediately! I have walked out many times to get some sanding done or something and saw that they were in their back yard. I turned around and went back in. I will NOT do a thing that will bother a nieghbor. If they wanted to live next to a body shop they can do it a lot cheaper at the other side of town. Around here their little house costs about $400,000, they are paying big payments, I will NOT infringe on their comforts with my crap, they don't deserve it.

------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

there are some pics on my web site of the setup I use. http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=1293079&uid=608404&members=1


It is a full face 3m respirator
p/n 6001 organic vapor cartridges
p/n 502 cover/adapter
p/n 2091 hepa filter
I have been told through osha training at work that the pink hepa filters are very
good at filtering particulates. much better then just using the thin prefilters over the cartridge

That is the same setup I use when I don't use a fresh air. Mine is an SAS brand.

To add to this heated discussion, like it needs more. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

When I was a paint rep I painted in possible a hundred or more shops. Only a few had fresh air systems ( I DO NOT SAY THIS TO SOMEHOW JUSTIFY NOT USING ONE) so I HAD to use a charcoal respirator. It was either that or nothing right? Besides, even if I could use a fresh air, I would have to have one that would adapt to their system.
So, what I did do was protect my self the best I could, with a full face charcoal respirator.

You can get a "fitting kit" or "test kit" from the manufacture. It is required by law that they have them. This kit has instructions for fitting and a small container of a very smelly substance to use to see if you have any leaks.

Disclaimer:
"Any product with isocyanates should be treated with extreme caution. A fresh air system is the only OSHA approved way to safely spray any product with Isocynates in it. If you were not to use a fresh air system, you are taking a chance with your health. Furthermore, If you choose to use a charcoal resperator instead of a fresh air system be sure that it is new, the correct size and properly fit. If you have ANY facial hair, shave it off. But still, I have to recommend a fresh air system"


If you choose to use a charcoal respirator PLEASE get one of these kits and educate yourself on using it safely.
For that matter, the same goes for using a fresh air system, if you mis use either one, you can SERIOUSLY damage your health.


------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

the only advise i can give is to listen to these guys very very well. My friend sprayed a car with no ventilation and used no mask (idiot). all the sudden he started having reactions. reactions meaning he thought he had spiders crawling on him constantly, he though pictures and clocks were falling off the walls when nothing would move and he though he lost his legs 2 times. This was no one or two our ordeal. This went on for a full 3 weeks. Doctors kept testing him for drugs but when they took a skin sample on him they found paint. Then tested his blood for the chemicals found in the paint, sure enough that was the cause.
i personally have never painted a car but judging by this story if i ever end up spraying a car i will def. try o be as safe as possible. m2c

------------------
Steve
1972 el camino
hey its not done but check out its progress.
http://stevelaser_1.tripod.com/

Yes Steve, it is serious business. I had a kid that used to help around the shop shoot his little mini truck one night with no resperator and ended up in the hospital for the night.


If I ever said anything that sounded like it shouldn't be taken seriously, please understand I didn't EVER mean such a thing.

------------------
1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"