Please look lower in the thread as plans have changed. ie (no more trickflow)

Planning on pepping up my 350 with a top end kit from trick flow. I have just a plane jane 350. Pretty much purely street use. Is this 445 hp kit too much cam? Do I need anything else? Can my stock rods and pistons take the power? Just wanna make sure Im not making any mistakes.

Aluminum heads have:
64cc combustion chamber
195cc intake

This kits come pretty complete with:
Aluminum Head Combo, Rockers, Head Bolts, Camshaft, Button and Lock Plate, Pushrod Length Checker,Timing Set,Gaskets,Kit

For some reason only the 420 hp version comes with pushrods, not the 445. The 420 hp is a flat tappet and the 445 is a roller.

This is the cam for 445 HP
246°/254° duration at .050, .558/.558 in. lift, with 1.5 ratio rockers and a 112° lobe separation.

This is for the 420 HP
228°/234° duration at .050, .480/.494 in. lift, with 1.5 ratio rockers and a 110° lobe separation.


I am leaning towars the 445 if it isnt asking too much from a 350. If you guys think its streatable to go even more, they have them up to 500hp. Just let me know. Should I buy anything else?

Heres the link at summits site for their kits
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400098+4294858290+115+42949082 16

Thanks guys.

I'd be Leary of the trick flow heads. I don't have personal experience, but I do have a few friends that have run them. They all have had problems with premature worn out valve guides. I was told by one of them that its due to the odd angle of the valve's I'd recommend either the Holley or Edelbrock kit. If anyone has first hand experience with the trick flow heads, please chime in.

Ok, thanks for the reply. Let me look at their kits.

What about this edelbrock kit
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL%2D2098&N=700+4294925232+4294838998+4294858290+4294908216+ 4294840140+115&autoview=sku

Should I just purchase items seperate? If so, can you guys help me pick heads and a cam and the parts to go with it? I need some serious guidance as this is a new experience for me.

I dont know from experience but I am pretty sure the valve guide issue was taken car of when they went to making heads with 23 degree valve angles. I believe that the problem heads were with the older G1 and G2 designs. I am pretty sure that those heads had the funny valve angles and also required special pistons when using cams of a certain size. From what I have read the newer Trickflows with the standard 23 degree valve angle are ok. This is just what I have read on various message forums.

Yea I read something about needing special rockers on the old heads, but they took care of that they took care of that with the new heads. Ill just wait for others to chime in.

Post your goals, budget, and what you want to do with this car.

I personally dont like the idea of "cookie cutter" packages. For one i like the idea of trick flow heads but not "trick flow" cams. I like the idea of edelbrock intakes but not edelbrock cams or heads. I like the idea Of holley carbs but not holley intakes or heads. What im trying to get at is that most companies are specialized in certian areas and they may not be top notch in others. For instance Brodix and AFR are top notch in 23* SBC heads. Edelbrock is pretty top notch in "off the shelf" intake manifolds, Take your pick with cams but most go with "Comp" I dont want one but thats just an opinion. Its like going to an all you can eat buffet...yeah they might have 1 or 2 good things but the rest is either mediocre or crappy.

Well budget is a great question. I have been getting the car ready for more power.

I put a 12 bolt with superior axles, eaton posi, 373 richmond gears in it, and 275 wide tires.

I put global west lower rear control arms, and edelbrock trailing arm braces, and hothkis rear sway bar.

Then I put a tremec 5 speed with a new driveshaft in it.

Disk brakes are on their way. Soon I will put aluminum radiator and high flow water pump in it.

So I was planning on a 383 with about 475 hp and 460 ft lbs. Now Im thinking I could maybe just hop up my small block in the hopes I can transfer the heads later to a 383 long block to make even more power. The reason I dont want to remove the engine I have is I dont have enough money for a complete new engine, plus it is a really new rebuilt 350 and has alot more life in it. It just needs more power.

So should I just wait and buy a 383 in a year, or should I hop up this 350 and then transfer the heads to a 383 later?

If I hop this engine up, what should I get for good streatable power? I need it to be reliable, but I want a muscle car idle and good torque and power.

So what heads? Dart?
Cam? comp? but what numbers?
pushrods?
gaskets? felpro?
rockers?
intake? edelbrock dual plane?
anything else?
Thanks again.

Well the more I think about it the more I feel I should just wait. It would be fun but probably not the most cost effective route to have some fun and learn alot. This was all going to be a learning experience for me, perhaps after tackling a job like this, I would feel competent enough to build the 383 from the ground up myself. I guess we will see.

What about a set of Vortec heads, a Comp XE274 cam and 1.52/1.6 rockers?

If you go with Vortec heads you'll need the matching intake too.

Don't think you can't make a 350 run. I've had some pretty stout 350's. If you have a good running fresh 350 with flat top pistons and not the low compression dished pistons, you have a good foundation. It becomes cost effective to build a 383 when you have to start from scratch because the parts cost basically the same as the 350.

A good combo that I know of running as good as some 383's right now is:

355cid (.030" over) 10.3:1 compression
Brodix RR 180cc heads 2.02/1.60
Voodoo 60104 276/284 233/241 .504"/.525" 110/106
Performer RPM Air-Gap Intake
Holley 750HP vacuum secondary

In a '7? step side truck, it turns low/mid 12's and is a daily driver.

Sounds convincing. I will do some searching around and post what parts I think would work and see if you guys agree.

Right now Im running a 600 cfm holley vacuum sec.

I priced it on summit. I dont know what kind of pistons I have.

Do I have everything I need? Are they the right things?

1. Pushrods correct length?
2. Rocker arm ratio correct?
3. Do I need adjusting nuts?
4. Head numbers correct?
5. Are there better heads for $1300?
6. Cam going to be streetable?
7. Timing chain correct? I also dont know how to time a cam... But have some books on rebuilding sbc that probably say.
8. Do I need those cam bolts?
9. Will 600 cfm carb be ok? Or should I buy a 750?
10. Gasket set correct, how do I know im not changing compression? Should I up it if I can? (dont know pistons though)


ARP-134-3701 Cylinder Head Bolts, High Performance, 12-Point Head, Chevy, Small Block, Kit $59.95 $59.95

BRO-1011006 Cylinder Heads, Race-Rite, Aluminum, Assembled, 67cc Chamber, 200cc Intake Runner, Chevy, 327/350/400, Pair $1,329.00 $1,329.00

CCA-1304-16 Rocker Arms, Stud Mount, Full Roller, Steel, 1.52 Ratio, Fits 7/16 in. Stud, Chevy, Small Block, Set of 16 $265.95 $265.95

CCA-4605 Cam Bolts, Black Oxide, 5/16 in.-18 Thread, Chevy, Big/Small Block, Set of 3 $5.39 $5.39

CCA-7812-16 Pushrods, High Energy, Steel, 5/16 in. Diameter, 7.794 in. Length, Ball Ends, Hardened, Set of 16 $27.95 $27.95

EDL-2101 Intake Manifold, Performer, Dual Plane, Aluminum, Natural, Square/Spread Bore Flange, Chevy, Small Block, Each $114.88 $114.88

EDL-7800 Timing Chain, Performer-Link, Double Roller, Steel/Iron Sprockets, Chevy, Small Block V8/90 Degree V6, Set $45.88 $45.88

FPP-2802 Full Gasket Set, Chevy Small Block Gen I, Set $99.95 $99.95

LUN-60104LK Cam and Lifters, Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Advertised Duration 276/284, Lift .504/.525, Chevy, Small Block, Kit $189.95 $189.95


. Sub Total: $2,138.90

Consider converting to a hyd roller retrofit, that will get you a considerable amount of power over a hyd flat tappet depending on what you end up going with.

Can you recommend a cam please. Also what else goes with a hyd roller? There are too many choices here and I am uneducated. What is the difference between a hyd roller follower and a hyd roller tappet?

Webfoot believes I should buy:

1. LUN 60112 hyd retro cam
here are the specs
http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/60112.pdf

231 in 239 ex
282 in 290 ex
.525 in .550 ex

2. comp cams hyd retro lifters and true roller timing set

3. cloyes 2-pc timing cover with adjustable cam button

What does everyone else think of this?

***Remember guys, Im running a manual, so I wont have a huge stall converter.

If you just looked at the lunati website, those specs are off. Look at the link of the cam card I sent you. Those specs are for lun 60111.

If you just looked at the lunati website, those specs are off. Look at the link of the cam card I sent you. Those specs are for lun 60111.

I updated the info in my last post.
This is all so confusing, but I am very excited and learning a ton.

I priced it on summit. I dont know what kind of pistons I have.

Do I have everything I need? Are they the right things?

1. Pushrods correct length?
2. Rocker arm ratio correct?
3. Do I need adjusting nuts?
4. Head numbers correct?
5. Are there better heads for $1300?
6. Cam going to be streetable?
7. Timing chain correct? I also dont know how to time a cam... But have some books on rebuilding sbc that probably say.
8. Do I need those cam bolts?
9. Will 600 cfm carb be ok? Or should I buy a 750?
10. Gasket set correct, how do I know im not changing compression? Should I up it if I can? (dont know pistons though)


ARP-134-3701 Cylinder Head Bolts, High Performance, 12-Point Head, Chevy, Small Block, Kit $59.95 $59.95

BRO-1011006 Cylinder Heads, Race-Rite, Aluminum, Assembled, 67cc Chamber, 200cc Intake Runner, Chevy, 327/350/400, Pair $1,329.00 $1,329.00

CCA-1304-16 Rocker Arms, Stud Mount, Full Roller, Steel, 1.52 Ratio, Fits 7/16 in. Stud, Chevy, Small Block, Set of 16 $265.95 $265.95

CCA-4605 Cam Bolts, Black Oxide, 5/16 in.-18 Thread, Chevy, Big/Small Block, Set of 3 $5.39 $5.39

CCA-7812-16 Pushrods, High Energy, Steel, 5/16 in. Diameter, 7.794 in. Length, Ball Ends, Hardened, Set of 16 $27.95 $27.95

EDL-2101 Intake Manifold, Performer, Dual Plane, Aluminum, Natural, Square/Spread Bore Flange, Chevy, Small Block, Each $114.88 $114.88

EDL-7800 Timing Chain, Performer-Link, Double Roller, Steel/Iron Sprockets, Chevy, Small Block V8/90 Degree V6, Set $45.88 $45.88

FPP-2802 Full Gasket Set, Chevy Small Block Gen I, Set $99.95 $99.95

LUN-60104LK Cam and Lifters, Hydraulic Flat Tappet, Advertised Duration 276/284, Lift .504/.525, Chevy, Small Block, Kit $189.95 $189.95


. Sub Total: $2,138.90


Brett,
1. Pushrods are the last thing you buy because length has to be measures with the heads on the engine and the rockers installed.
2. Rocker ratio is fine. Studs in heads will likely be 3/8 though.
3. Adjusting nuts should/better come with the rockers.
4. I think runners are too big for what you're looking for in a 355. If you are looking to move the power band way up in the rpm range, 200cc is O.K. If you want a good pulling engine up to 6500, go 180cc.
5. Not that I know of. You could even go to the IK180s and save some money without giving up performance.
6. Very streetable with a healthy lope.
7. A good double, true roller is what you want. Install it dot-to-dot because it has advance built in.
8. Good cam bolts with a lock plate is safety.
9. You will need more carb.
10. Didn't look it up.

By all means, if it's in the budget, step up to hydraulic roller. You will need Morel lifters though and better springs on the heads. It will be probably $1000.00 to go hydraulic roller over flat-tappet.
You need to know your pistons before you order heads. If you don't have flat-tops, you will need smaller chambers to get to 10:1 compression.

My best advice: Leave the mail order catalog alone and look this guy up. He'll help you any and every way possible. He's member here.
Mike (Wolfplace)
VISIT US AT
Lewis Racing Engines (http://www.lewisracingengines.com/)

Drop him an email or give him a call. He will help you get everything you want and "save you a buck or two" in the process.

Thanks alot Ray. Great advice. Love this site!

Hey Brett, I would stick with what all these guys are saying about not buying one of these kits. I know from first hand experience on these kits. I bought the one that suppose to make 445 hp and 410 tq. Well, I'm here to say that it doesn't make what they say. I put the kit on a 406 motor did everything they said to do and more. Put the car on the dyno and wow! Was all i could say in the fact it didn't make squat. Ever since i wish i would of pieced it together myself. My old 350 made more power and ran better than this package deal and i pieced it together myself. So i would deffinitly listen to the advice of these guys since IMOP these guys all no what they are talking about when it comes to power.JMOP

Brett, I recently rebuilt a 350 using the holley systemax kit. I am pleased with the performance. So far it has went 13.60's at 100 mph with street tires and a non-posi 3.36 geared rear end. I am thinking it will do even better with some tuning. I like the package concept probably because I am somewhat of a novice compared to some here and I didn't want to take the chance of ending up with something mismatched that didn't perform well. If I was more experienced I would maybe mix and match. We will see next time I guess. The holley kit came with good instructions and was relativley easy to install. It came complete with intake manifold, assembled heads, head bolts, push rods, timing set, camshaft and lifters. The price was around $1,400.00 which fit my budget perfectly. I am not saying this is the right route for you, I am just relating my personal experiences.

Rich

69bu, thanks for the info. I will look into the kit.

I am wondering though, say my engine has low compression pistons, so I buy an aluminum head to match. Is this going to screw me over when I decide to make the engine a 383 and use the same heads? Or will there be pistons that I can choose from to keep the compression correct? I just dont want to buy a set of aluminum heads I cant use later on a 383.