hey,

ok i know probably not a ton of you have this peticular setup but its unique powerful and fuel efficient so id like to do it. hence i need ur help. i dont know to much about the ls1 swap and i have limited knowledge of mateing a turbo to an LS1 what i do have going for me is a 71 chevelle original 307 th350 car still all original except for a few things with 65,000 miles on it its fairly clean not lots of rust anywhere really theres pics in my profile. also im halfway through going to school for mechanical engineering (i have already started working) and im generally enthusiastic.

so what does it take to put an ls1 in this car what type of standard transmissions are available that will hold 1000 hp and any other info i might need

thanks in advance and i know ur gonna say it but i already looked at ls1 tech they didnt have a whole lot on a chevelle swap and i couldnt even post a thread there. also i looked on here and pro-touring and i just havent found someone to tell me the parts pieces and problems asociated with the project.


p.s hopefully the guy with the white car, cute kid, and smokeing hot wife will chime in.:D :D

I'm doing a twin turbo LS2 in my 64 Chevelle. I am using the ATS moor mounts which are a bolt on deal to mount the engine. They also lower the engine and move it back an inch or so for better handling and a bit more room in front of the engine for accessories (or turbos).

You will likely need some surgery to the trans tunnel with the TKO or T56. Tom Nelson has some new LS1 turbo headers which should fit your car unless you can build your own. I have a set on the way to verify fitment. I believe Scott is using the factory computer and tuning with that; I have a new BigStuff 3 in my shop for the LSX engines so I'm using that.

Several options, sounds like a cool project.

Jody

Boy, where to start!

Basically, buy a used ls1 from a 2000+ F-body, notch the bottom of the sump on the pan and rebend the sump tube accordingly, Unless you can find some, I have not seen a motor mount that will hold the power reliably without outting a huge amount of unwanted stress on the block, I would think someone might make them by now?? 1000 hp will put a severe strain on the mounts. I used the stock mounts on the block and put poly in them to help absorb unwanted shock to the aluminum block. For the chassis motor mounts, I fabed a "horshshoe" from some 3/16" steel and tigged them up, they will bolt farther back on the crossmember but keeps the load centered within the four bolts on the aluminum block.
Connect up the wiring to power, switched power, ground, etc., or buy a speartech harness. Run electric inline fuel pump to raise fuel pressure to 415 psi, run aftermarket fuel rails for good distribution. Go to parts store and pick up some radiator hoses that fit, have 3/8" snout extension welded to conveter of whatever trans you are going to use, I would recommend a t400 or a 4l80 if you want overdrive. If your set on a stick, research some other trans that you will not have to completely butcher the tunnel for, amybe the new 5 speed muncie?? Build your own headers. I tigged mine up from 321 stainless for about $1400 in material, mild steel will be about half that and will last a long time, but will not look as purdy.

If you have particular questions let me know, the big vague ones take to long to type!!

How about a dollar estimate... assuming he has shop access and a tube welding mentor.

My motor cost $5k from pan to carb.

Is he looking at $10k or more?

There was one person, Gokou maybe, that was doing a forced induction motor while still in school.

Another "bigger picture" thing to consider: (all minimum values)
Transmission - easy $1500+ to not leave you stranded.
rear end - $500 in retrofit work (gears + labor)
brakes - $400 for discs or better discs to stop from ~100MPH
suspension - $500 stopping at 100mph isn't fun with stock springs and bushings.

so add another $3k just to complement the power plant you are looking at building.

My plan is to put in a used plain LS1 .... and hopefully a 4L80E at the same time. Then, after I have the electronics and diagnostics up to par, I will pull the motor and do the twin turbos. but only after I've read a good deal about it, and seen enough pictures. Maybe by then ( 2 years) there will be an aftermarket exhaust manifold so I don't have to pay SCotty to build one for me. ;)

The only Transmission that will gurantee 1000hp is a Jerico ($6k) or a G-Force T56 ($?). If you still want a stick, I'd recommend a TKO-600, yes their only rated to 600hp, but If you drive them smart, then it should last, meaning no slick launches at the strip.

Me, I am planning a TT LSx aswell. Going to use the stock crank, but use Weisco Pistons, and Lunati (probably) rods.

-Todd

awsome guys thanks a bunch for all the info and yes this is in the future for me but i want to get a head start so i dont end up doing what i am doing with my brakes. ( put in an ssbc system that works really well but now im doing the sc and c kit and need vette brakes)
im doing the rest of the car first starting with the front im in the process of ordering sc and c's full front kit spindles uppers coilovers and hopefully their lowers that are supposed to come out very soon to.
after this im gonna move to the rear and put in an hth suspension then wheels and tires.
once all this is done i plan on collecting my running gear rearend from currie (almost bulletproof 9 inch) and then trans ( although im not 100 percent on this i was planning on a tko 600 but may go with a t56 i wouldnt mind a 6 speed but i want dependability to be # 1) also i dont mind cutting up the tunnel to fit watever it takes. and yes im dead set on a stick. its been my dream since i was 12 years old and saw my first 69 chevelle that the local car dealer had (not for sale) to blast through the gears in my very own chevelle. and then the motor which i plan to build on the side and fit in over a winter break or something. so thats my general plan of attack on this whole thing. plus some body work, gauges, and whatnot. any comments questions ideas are welcome and i really really appreciate the help with all of this i cant possibly thank you enough.

I did my entire engine/turbo setup for $12,500. Since then I have bought some really expensive turbos that threw me up to $14K. This included buying an Ls1 and using only the best parts for the turbo setup including a Spearco intercooler core, 321 Stainless tubing and braided line instead of silicone hose.

If you build on the cheap and are happy with only 700 hp, you can just use an unopened LS1 with a mild steel twin turbo setup and finish that for about $7500 including motor.

What is nice, is that 1000+ hp is nothing on pumpgas! If you want to run race gas, you can safely have a 1300 hp street car!

woops side note i just realized my pictures suck i just took some new ones ill post them tonight

I must also say, that most 1000 hp guys swap to an auto for driveability. Ever try "row" through the gears in a 1000 hp car?? As soon as you launch you have to shift! Also, it is super hard to build boost on a stick. And, you will never be able to control wheel spin to get a good launch. Boost comes on very very fast and strong ,and is very hard to control.

With auto I have the luxury of trying to pedal it while I am just pulling the shifter back into another gear! 6 speed will get you some nice top speed though!!

I must also say, that most 1000 hp guys swap to an auto for driveability. Ever try "row" through the gears in a 1000 hp car?? As soon as you launch you have to shift! Also, it is super hard to build boost on a stick. And, you will never be able to control wheel spin to get a good launch. Boost comes on very very fast and strong ,and is very hard to control.
With auto I have the luxury of trying to pedal it while I am just pulling the shifter back into another gear! 6 speed will get you some nice top speed though!!

I definitely agree an auto is the way to go with that kind of power. Another thing with those kinds of power numbers is you don't really need low gears. With 1,000hp,a TH400 and 3.08 gear would work very well.

ok well what if i had the ability to get 1000 hp but just ran around with 7-800 or so. is this a viable option? i had heard this before but i really want to shift my own gears and this car isnt going to see any heavy competition right off the bat in any arena i just want a street car thats different and can really perform above and beyond.

Just a question? What is the most powerful car you have driven or been in?? 1000 hp is NOT childs play. It may sound like a nice easy roung number, but that is serious power. I rarely ever use my power. On the street I only use about 700 hp of it tops! Even 700 hp is hard to control, I would sure hate to always have to worry about shifting not to mention that you will ALWAYS be spinning the tires and shifting in the middle of a controlled slide could be a little dangerous!! If you want a stick, then go that route, or you could also have a manually shifted T400 with either a forward or reverse shift pattern and a transbrake. Turbo cars LOVE trans brakes!

-Built 5 or 6 speed and matching clutch, $4000
-Built t400 with matching converter, $2300
-Built 4l80 with matching convereter, $4000

I am not trying to shoot you down in any way, I am just offering the best advice I can give to make your life a little easier and cheaper.

I definitely agree an auto is the way to go with that kind of power. Another thing with those kinds of power numbers is you don't really need low gears. With 1,000hp,a TH400 and 3.08 gear would work very well.

True, Turbos like low gears. I run a 3.42 gear with a 26" tire, I might go one step lower to a 3.23 gear. I am at about 7000 rpm at 150 mph. A 28" tire car would like a 3.42 gear.

its perfectly fine, no worries. this is exactly what i was looking for. no i havent driven any 1000 hp cars or any really high powered cars that were turboed so im deffinetly venturing into uncharted territories for me, but i would like to drive and expierience this and i dont really know anyone who would let me tear around in there 1000hp car so i figure hell i guess ill build one. also im really exploreing this manual thing and if its just absalutly positvly stupid to do and a no go then i wont do it life is all about sacrafices and ive gotta do what ive gotta do. also i really am not thinking of useing probably even half of the 1000hp most of the time im not deadset on this number or anything i just know that most of the twin turbo stuff ive seen is usually 1000 hp, i want a turboed ls1 capable of some serious numbers but tame enough to run around in. thats why i really like a turbo concept cuz u can change boost to the power you like without refilling a bottle. and you get that coveted gas mileage. so i guess what im saying is id take a power loss on the project ( use less boost or different heads or something to bring the power down to a drivable number) and if i felt it wasnt enough i could always toss some parts at it like a different trans and the extra power adders.

The power will be adjustable from 500 hp to 1000+ with the right setup. If you will be happy with 700 hp you will save a ton of money. You can also use a stick, you just will not be able to take advantage of the power like you would with an auto.

yeah thats perfectly fine if i so decide that i need to go rediculously fast or want to die with a s_ _ _ eating grin on my face ill toss in an auto and give that horse some dinna deah...


thanx again lots of awsome info here

Having owned both turbo/auto cars and also turbo/stick cars (currently using one of the latter for a daily driver) if you are going for all-out acceleration the auto wins hands down with the turbos. Not only can you easily build boost for a launch with an auto via footbrake or transbrake (you can build boost for launch with a stick too via timing retard/fuel dump but it's very hard on your exhaust valves, headers, and hotside wheels in the turbos) you don't have the boost loss/recovery time on each shift as you do with a stick car (again, unless you have a ECU that has antilag & flatfoot shifting capability.)

I would sure hate to always have to worry about shifting not to mention that you will ALWAYS be spinning the tires and shifting in the middle of a controlled slide could be a little dangerous!!

You just summed up all the reasons why I like the stick in my car. :p It's impossible but sure fun trying to keep up with the engine and lack of traction. 1st is instantaneous, as is 2nd, and 3rd is usually hit and miss for traction. It's a wild ride and I like it that way. I have had some scary moments though when having to grab 3rd gear while in a sideways drift at the top of second-- because when you dip the clutch in the back hooks and pitches the car the opposite way, and the car is doing 75-80 at that point.

Much easier to manage and make best use of the power with an auto (plus all the advantages of an auto with turbos) but even with the auto it still won't be a "tame" ride with lots of power. The first time I had the rear end kick out on me over some road imperfections at over 100 was a real eye opener (and a sphincter clencher for my passenger at the time... LOL) Expect that to be the norm. You really have to watch where, when, and how much right foot you use.

Still wanting to do turbos in my car. Jody had the perfect setup for me but sold it out from under me.... heheh :waving:

Back on the original subject, as stated the biggest costs associated with this project will be in the headers (if you choose to go stainless, which I highly recommend for longevity) and also in all the welding labor unless you can provide your own. However, the fuel system, hoses, etc (all the little stuff) always costs much more than you think and should not be ignored. You also can't neglect even basic safety/strength items at this power level-- things such as u-joints, driveshaft, rear end & axles, wheel studs, tires & speed/load ratings, brakes, etc.

Boy, where to start!

Basically, buy a used ls1 from a 2000+ F-body,

If you have particular questions let me know, the big vague ones take to long to type!!



What's wrong with the 98-99 F-body LS1's ???

The PCM's are inferior, Some 99's had the better pcm, but you have to see it to know if it the "better" one. The 98's had super thin cylinder liners that are more probne to cracking at high cylinder pressures than the 99+ blocks. Again, some 99's had the 98 blocks. 2001-2002 is the motor to have as it comes with Ls6 intake with no egr provision so you do not have a big hole in the top to try and plug. The early Vettes(97-98) did not have the hole, but where not the ls6 intake, it was smaller. 97-98 and some 99 Ls1's also had a perimeter bolt valvecover setup with an inferior head and gasket design. It is just way easier to buy a 2000+ ls1. Then you know yo have all the upgrades( except for the intake). Also, in 2001+ many LS1's recieved the ls6 block, it was hit or miss though, its kind of a 50/50 to get one.

is there a way to tell if it is an ls6 block just by looking at it or running numbers?

is there a way to tell if it is an ls6 block just by looking at it or running numbers?


Yes, I forgot what the numbers are(Sorry), but you can call the Chevy dealer or look it up online somewhere.

The ls1 I am looking at is a '98. But I am not going to run boost on it. Do I really need an '01 and up ?

Unless you are getting it for $1500 or less turn key, hold out for the newer year. Just don't jump the gun! Down the road you might regret it.

Unless you are getting it for $1500 or less turn key, hold out for the newer year. Just don't jump the gun! Down the road you might regret it.

It's really hard to find one with a t56 attached to it... Heck for $1500, it hard to find a T-56 :p

What I mean is... is it a bad engine ? At first I was gonna settle for an lt1... now I'm set on the ls1.... I mean it cant be that bad right ?!? This one has 35k miles on it also and I would be getting the whole car as well(which I might need) For a guy that is just going to drive it around in stock form does he really need the upgraded intake and thicker walls.

It will work for you, but I am just looking out for you down the road. when there comes a time when you do want more power the heads, pcm and intake will hold you back and are BIG dollar items. Without a trans, you should be able to find a turn key 2000+ motor for under $2300. Theonly issues I know of with the early LS1's is oil consumption. They have alot of blow by that throws all the oil into the PCV setup and the motor ends up using more oil then it should. Le tm know when you are ready for some tuning! I can put some tweaks on it for you if your close to me. I didn't see your location?

It will work for you, but I am just looking out for you down the road. when there comes a time when you do want more power the heads, pcm and intake will hold you back and are BIG dollar items. Without a trans, you should be able to find a turn key 2000+ motor for under $2300. Theonly issues I know of with the early LS1's is oil consumption. They have alot of blow by that throws all the oil into the PCV setup and the motor ends up using more oil then it should. Le tm know when you are ready for some tuning! I can put some tweaks on it for you if your close to me. I didn't see your location?

Thanks for the info. I'm still going to go with this one if it goes for a reasonable price.

I guess if I want BIG power later on, I'll buy a newer ls1 and build it on a stand and drop it it..... But thats a LONG way away.

I'm in the Atlanta area btw...

Without a trans, you should be able to find a turn key 2000+ motor for under $2300.

Sometimes I hate California. Here you can't touch a complete LS1 for less than $4K.

Jody

Too many hot rodders in Cali.....

Too many hot rodders in Cali.....

All the high end cars are in Cali, It is funny.... In wisconsin, most people don't even know what those things under my hood are!

I bought my engine for $1,000.00. 02 6.0L w/ 26K! If you were willing to give up 60-70lbs, than you might be able to find a good deal on one. Also, you get an iron block, which is stronger. (not saying alum. not strong enough) And 72cc heads for lower comp. They are pretty much the same as LS6 heads. Also the truck coils are suppose to be better. (Cartech book)

Now, if you go this way, you will need; A LS6 intake($300.00 S&P), an oil pan ( I had Canton make me a 6.5qt pan w/ remote filter $700.00 Ouch!) You can get a stock LS1 pan, and have it modified. You will also need a comp and wiring harness from a Camaro.

As far as the trans goes... I went with a Viper T56. I wanted a stick cause all my other cars has always been autos. I was told by D&D that a stock Viper trans is good to about 900hp. Auto ARE faster at the strip, and you will be able to control your car better with one. My car is going to have air and cruise. I was told a story by a guy that had the same set-up except with a 4L60E. He had his cruise set and air on (not that the air cond. had anything to do with it) and when he came to a hill, the car decited to down shift. It caught him be surprise! And he said he almost lost it. He change his car over to a stick to have "better" control over his car.

You really need to decide how your gonna use your car, and plan from there. I know my set-up is a little overkill, but 1. It can be turned down on the street. 2. I always seem to want more power after I build a motor. (If I had all the money from building motors, just because I wanted more power, my car would have already been done by now!) LOL!

A 6.1 from a truck seems like a good idea as well but none of them came with a amanual tranny.

I'm looking at whole cars to cut down on cost.

If I can buy a whole with an ls1 and a t56, I dont have to buy any other big components and I can sell the leftovers and get some of my money back.

Take a look at this car for example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=230022303648&ih=013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Now I did not buy it because I want a t56 but if I had wanted an auto, I would have my whole setup and I could be selling ALOT of leftover parts and end up with a fairly cheap ls1 swap.

True, but look at the Mileage. That T/A had 120k on it! That's almost guaranteeing some headaches.

Just something to look at before you take the plunge.

-Todd

True, but look at the Mileage. That T/A had 120k on it! That's almost guaranteeing some headaches.

Just something to look at before you take the plunge.

-Todd


the one I'm looking at has 35k ;)

I must also say, that most 1000 hp guys swap to an auto for driveability. Ever try "row" through the gears in a 1000 hp car?? As soon as you launch you have to shift! Also, it is super hard to build boost on a stick. And, you will never be able to control wheel spin to get a good launch. Boost comes on very very fast and strong ,and is very hard to control.

With auto I have the luxury of trying to pedal it while I am just pulling the shifter back into another gear! 6 speed will get you some nice top speed though!!

If it is super hard to build boost with a stick, wouldnt it be easier to hook the car up? Boost comes on with load, right?? I think with a boost controler, it might not be too bad. I know you would have to shift quickly. And I know you cant outshift an auto. But Ive seen quite a few sticks running 10s-9s- even 8s. Some even on 10.5 tires!

I am not saying a stick can't be fast, I am saying it is much harder to build boost off the line I can leave the line at full boost if I want, you can't do that with a stick car. If you can't hook real well, it really won't matter.