I want to do front/rear sway bars and rear upper and lower trailing arms and support bars on my 71 chevelle. The hotchkis stuff is very pricey, looking at summit right now the sway bars are $353.95 and the other stuff is $655.95. Any other companies that will provide the same performance for less of the name brand price? Is it okay to mix match companies too? like edlebrock upper arms and hotchkis lowwer arms? If you could help me out that would be great. Thanks

I stay away from hotchkis as much as possible. They are'nt really aimmed for street driving. Reinforced upper arms with poly bushings, lower arms with poly bushings creating A LOT of bind! Their sway bars are pretty good and light. Personally, I like UMI Performance parts. Their kit with sphereical ends is extremely nice and strong. The price may seem high but it's well worth it. UMI Performance (http://www.umiperformance.com/402717.aspx) Good luck!

I don't believe UMI sells sway bars, however. Addco makes nothing but sway bars and has been around for years. Their prices are probably comperable to Hotchkiss though.

I got a pair of sway bars with all the brackets, bolts, busings, etc. for less than $200 from OPGI. They aren't as pretty as the name brand powder coated stuff but they work the same and fit perfectly. They sell different kits with rubber bushings/link ends or poly bushings/link ends so you can buy the package that best fits your needs and not have to buy a separate set of bushings.

IMO Hotchkis is the best for my set-up. The rears are a little stiff on the street but do their job. But as the above post says if your looking for that smooth ride these ain't it. Edelbrock uppers are some of the best on the market. Also look at Fatman's & Dick Miller components.

Hotchkis rear arms are some of the worst on the market, along with any other rigid arm with poly bushings.

Hotchkis rear arms are some of the worst on the market, along with any other rigid arm with poly bushings.

Ruff ride? Installation problems? Won't hook up well? Just wondering why.........

I've got the Eddy upper and no-hops. Very nice stuff, good pricing (I paid about ~300.00 for both items). Car launches like a missle now.

But, as stated, I'm pretty sure the car rides rougher now. The no hops come w/poly bushings up top. The Eddy uppers have the spherical end on them on the frame side. This combination makes for rougher ride. Basically, 4 rubber bushings were replaced w/2 poly's.

Rough ride - Yes, because the rear is all bound up, it can't move as it should.

Installation problems - Yes, what a PITA it is to try to get all of the bolt holes lined up at the same time... never going to do that again!

Won't Hook Up - Sort-of, that's not really a problem if going straight is all you care about, but if you want to corner, these kill your rear's ability to articulate, causing snap-oversteer if you drive it anywhere near its limit.

If you watch the range of motion of the upper arms throughout its travel, you will see why these cause horrible bind.

Installation problems - Yes, what a PITA it is to try to get all of the bolt holes lined up at the same time... never going to do that again!

Won't Hook Up - Sort-of, that's not really a problem if going straight is all you care about, but if you want to corner, these kill your rear's ability to articulate, causing snap-oversteer if you drive it anywhere near its limit.

If you watch the range of motion of the upper arms throughout its travel, you will see why these cause horrible bind.

Installation seemed fairly easy - First time using Hotchkis on a '69. I have heard of guys installing rubber bushings into the uppers because of cornering issues though. So I have heard of it. So did you scrap them or figure something out? I see you have two '69s so your experience is way better than mine.

I actually had poly bushings in the stock upper arms, but the rigid arms would make the effects even worse. The stock arms' ability to flex reduces the bind, but it's still quite bad.

I have since switched to adjustable arms with spherical bearings. I'm very happy with these :thumbsup:

Well, to add more to the discussion I've added all poly to my '65 and have not seen the bad characteristics sometimes stated by others. I went from fairly new rubber bushings to all poly with boxed lowers and saw nothing but improvement in handling, elimination of wheel hop and no deterioration of ride quality. It's at stock height and is all stock except for the added sway bars and stiff shocks and the aforementioned poly bushings at the rear and with good performance 235/60-R14 tires I was able to push .7 G's (according to a G-Tech meter). That's not exactly mind bending grip, but it makes for a pleasent driving car.

HOWEVER, all poly bushings in rigid square tubing control arms such as Hotchkiss and many others offer would accentuate any possible bind issues which could appear when using all poly. Also, all poly bushings are not alike, some give a little bit more which is a good thing, and they must be properly lubed inside and out. I still believe a good low cost alternative for improved ride and handling is to do the rear with two rubber bushings in the front of the upper arms and poly bushings at the remaining six locations.

I'd buy Hellwig over ADDCO. 4140 heat treated steel vs ?. Have a set of Hellwig bars on my 68 and am happy with the fit. They look a lot like what OPGI sells. If you want light weight get the Hotchkis bars.

I priced out everything and I'm going to go with the hotchkis sway bars and the edelbrock tubular upper trailing arms, edelbrock boxed lower trailing arms and the edelbrock trailing arm support braces for a total of $829.92 instead of all hotchkis which was $1091.80 I looked at UMI performance which rianbecktold suggested and they were less than the edelbrock's stuff but they dont carry upper support bars. So i didnt want to mix match UMI trailing arms with edelbrock support bars, plus the price wasn't that much different. let me know what you guys think. thanks

What are you going to do if you pnion angle gets thrown off? Then you'll HAVE to buy adjustable uppers.

Go ahead and get adjusable uppers - should add too much to the price.

What are you going to do if you pnion angle gets thrown off?


I agree - Always have the ability to adjust the uppers.......

Currie CurrecTrac upper adjustable arms: $299.95 - CE-7011D
Currie CurrecTrac lower tubular arms: $224.95 - CE7011L
Stock style reproduction frame braces: On sale at OPGI for $56.50 - CH26429

With a total of the above of $581.40 that leaves you plenty of funds to buy whatever sway bars you want and in the process you get VERY good control arms with Johnny Joints. The Currie arms also include provisions to mount the rear bar in stock fashion.

The 68-72 stock style frame braces will do the job as well as the much more expensive aftermarket brand pieces.

OPGI has some very affordable sway bar kits.

If you wanted to save a few more bucks you could buy the Edelbrock upper adjustable arms which are slightly less expensive and built basically the same with the same Johnny Joints Currie uses.

You can see good photos of the Currie stuff installed on my wagon chassis on my wagon site link found in my signature line. These are very well made pieces and worth every penny in my estimation.

Just trying to provide you with some options....

I have the Edelbrock uppers on my car and highly reccomend them. Went from stock uppers with rubber bushings to Edelbrock uppers with rubber bushings in the axle. No increase in harshness but you can feel the difference in suspension compliance with the spherical joints.

I have the Edelbrock uppers on my car and highly reccomend them. Went from stock uppers with rubber bushings to Edelbrock uppers with rubber bushings in the axle. No increase in harshness but you can feel the difference in suspension compliance with the spherical joints.

Do you have the non-adjustable upper arms? or the adjustable? i don't mind spending a tad more for adjustbale if it's going to help me out a ton. I really wont know how ot adjust it but I'm sure someone here and tell me a baseline of where i should be and then go from there. right?

What you will find is that when you start changing things suspension wise, other things will be affected. I can almost guaruntee that all those things your looking to add to your rear will affect pinion angle. Then, you will take those non-adjustable upppers you just bought and tose them. You will then need to spend another ~200.00 for adjustable uppers to get your pinion in line.

Dont be afraid on adjusting the uppers...easy to do. All you need is a $10 degree gauge and measure how far the pinion is pointing up or down in relation to the engine/trans angle.

Case in point: I bought and installed Eddy no-hops for my car - thats it. No more hop, but I got a bad vibration. Pinion angle was disturbed. Had to spend 180.00 for adjustable uppers to run the 125.00 no hop bars.

So I should get adjustable uppers and I should be safe? I don't need to get adjustable lowers? Just uppers? It looks like from everyone on here I am going to get the adjustable uppers. I don't want to do it wrong and waste even more money. Thanks everyone I really appriciate it. When I get them all installed maybe someone can give me pinion angles 101 to help me out with all of that stuff. I'm not familiar with it at all that's way i was going to just get the non adjustable ones because I figured I just need it to be one way. Once again this forum comes to the rescue of a still training chevelle owner. Oh and by the way I just posted pictures of my new exhuast in the engine section if you'd like to check it out. When I get all my suspension done I'll post some more pictures here. I'll be back with some more questions once I get the parts and go to install them.

If it makes you feel better, the Eddy adjustable uppers already come adjusted to stock length. But even if it does need adjustment (probably will...it a pretty simple operation, don't get too worried about it).

I think we all forgot to ask you - what is you intentions w/the car? You may not even need any of the stuff your buying?

I have the adjustable uppers as I needed to correct a pinion angle issue. I chose the Edelbrock's because of the spherical bushing which eliminates bind. The Currie's look good too and have the same features but have a little more overkill in the design which is to be expected for the extra cost. The Edelbrock's have worked well for 3 years in my ride. The only reasons I would buy an aftermarket upper control arm is for the spherical bushing to improve suspension compliance and the need to adjust pinion angle. For most street applications, the stock control arms w/ rubber bushings are just fine IMO.

Vince, I had the same problem initially with the pinion on mine as you know, but after loosening my control arm bolts and just sitting, the car has sat down nicely. The springs sit properly on their perches now, and the pinion is almost level again. I imagine once the motor/tranny and front end get put on, things will be just fine ( for me at least ), and the car will sit down properly. All this talk about sitting makes it sound like I'm training a dog, not building a car.

I did speak with Edelbrock's Tech Line and they made no mention of me needing their adjustable uppers.

In most instances you will not need adjustable lower arms, the adjustable uppers will do the trick. Assuming you are just looking for a better handling street car...

Dan, I had my car sitting level and I loosened everything and tightened it all back up. Springs seem to be sitting straight, but the pinion was up +4 to the engine.
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Funny the Eddy tech told you that...the Eddy tech told me they made the adjustable uppers to correct pinion issues when using there no-hops!

I want a good handling street car i don't want any body roll on turns and i want my car solid, I'm young and i dont mind a rough ride if i can just burn some rubber around a turn and then be able to plant rubber to the floor once i straighten it out :) I plan to put some 15x10's on the rear but we'll see. Don't get me wrong, I will not change my rims... I'm just going to see if i can cut out the middle and plant them in a wider rim. Also, that tire ripping is from time to time, I take great care of my car and never even been pulled over in over a year and a half, and I live in a busy little town.

Dan, I had my car sitting level and I loosened everything and tightened it all back up. Springs seem to be sitting straight, but the pinion was up +4 to the engine.
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Funny the Eddy tech told you that...the Eddy tech told me they made the adjustable uppers to correct pinion issues when using there no-hops!


Vince,

I'm going to wait until the car is assembled to address the upper c/a issue, if I even have one. :sad:

If I do have a problem, I'll buy the bloddy adj. uppers, and they will be the last Edelbrock product I ever buy.

Dan, car has to definietly be at operating weight on level surface.

No big deal if you have to get them....I just did a 50ft burnout with the car fishtailing everywhere and it was like glass! No bumping, banging, etc.

No big deal if you have to get them....I just did a 50ft burnout with the car fishtailing everywhere and it was like glass! No bumping, banging, etc.


All done safely, of course!;)

I want a good handling street car i don't want any body roll on turns and i want my car solid.Tune your roll-stiffness into the car with springs and sway-bars, not bind.

Use either rubber bushings, or spherical bearings in the rear suspension. Poly will bind, causing non-linear roll-stiffness making the car nearly impossible to balance. It may understeer or be balanced in one turn, then oversteer in the next... and unpredictable snap-oversteer often results in wadded up cars.

Well, to add more to the discussion I've added all poly to my '65 and have not seen the bad characteristics sometimes stated by others. I went from fairly new rubber bushings to all poly with boxed lowers and saw nothing but improvement in handling, elimination of wheel hop and no deterioration of ride quality. It's at stock height and is all stock except for the added sway bars and stiff shocks and the aforementioned poly bushings at the rear and with good performance 235/60-R14 tires I was able to push .7 G's (according to a G-Tech meter). That's not exactly mind bending grip, but it makes for a pleasent driving car.
How did you test this? Did you push it until one end broke loose (front or rear?) or did you just go to where you felt comfortable with it? Were you on a level surface?

Tune your roll-stiffness into the car with springs and sway-bars, not bind.

Use either rubber bushings, or spherical bearings in the rear suspension. Poly will bind, causing non-linear roll-stiffness making the car nearly impossible to balance. It may understeer or be balanced in one turn, then oversteer in the next... and unpredictable snap-oversteer often results in wadded up cars.

I'm using spherical bearings on the upper control arms, and i think edelbrock lowers come with poly bushings... should i remove the poly bushings and replace them with rubber?

How did you test this? Did you push it until one end broke loose (front or rear?) or did you just go to where you felt comfortable with it? Were you on a level surface?

For my g-foce testing it was tested on a level surface, my local high school's parking lot. I pushed it as hard as it would go until understeer began to surface sufficiently enough that the G forces began to drop off. I did it in both directions and averaged the two maximum readings. The pavement was fairly dirty and not exactly new so with cleaner, fresher pavement I might have gotten a little more out of it. I did not drift it while getting these readings (don't know if that would result in more or less of a maximum reading).

The car naturally has a small amount of understeer with power induced oversteer available with use of the throttle. I've driven it for years on the street (read that as "not always perfect road surfaces") and at times I've pushed it and I've yet to experience any discomforting feedback. Given what it is, it's always done what I expect it to do. It's basically a stocker with slow steering and less than awe inspiring drum brakes and I know it's limits so I don't do anything stupid, but it's not a bad set up for basic driving on a budget.

I'm using spherical bearings on the upper control arms, and i think edelbrock lowers come with poly bushings... should i remove the poly bushings and replace them with rubber?

The bind that occurs occurs predominently in the upper control arms. With spherical bearings in the upper arms the poly in the lower arms isn't that much of an issue. If you want to eliminate any amount of bind caused by the lower arms you'd probably be better off installing new lower arms with spherical bearings or Johnny Joints at one end instead of installing rubber in your current lower arms.

I dont think i need to get lower arms with spherical bearings for my street use, can you explain "bind" to me please?

When the body leans in relationship to the axle or when the axle moves due to a bump or hole, the control arms don't simply pivot on the pivot points at either end of the 4 control arms and they don't simply move up and down perpendicular to the axis of the arm itself. The arms need to twist to some extent to allow the axle to move up and down. If the arms cannot twist, the bushing point binds and bad things happen.

The stock rubber bushings allow these non-axis movements to occur with moderate amounts of bind, solid bushings would allow almost no non-axis movements and the arm would not pivot up and down smoothly and the body would roll in unexpected and sudden ways thus not planting the appropriate amount of weight on the individual wheels attached to the axle. Also, if a bushing binds, the weight of the car tends to roll over that point instead of the pivot center created by the suspension components. If enough force is introduced to then suddenly overcome the bind, the susupenion jerks suddenly causing a rapid shift in the weight of the car and can cause a very unnerving situation called snap oversteer. It's as if someone were to jerk the steering wheel hard in the wrong direction just as you were turning through a corner hard.

Spherical ends allow the arms to move without this bind thus allowing the suspension to support the weight of the car properly and to allow much more predictive control to result.

More to your situation, more that the arms are not parallell to the length of the car, the more potential they have to bind. Since the upper arms are about 45 degrees from being parallel to the length of the car, they will bind more agressively than the lower arms which are within a few degrees of being parallel to the length of the car.

[QUOTE=Rich-L79;1030187]Spherical ends allow the arms to move without this bind thus allowing the suspension to support the weight of the car properly and to allow much more predictive control to result.[QUOTE/]

Question - Where does one purchase these spherical ends for hotchkis arms??? Please... I will be putting mine one the ground very soon and this "snap oversteer" doesn't sound fun....

[QUOTE=Rich-L79;1030187]Spherical ends allow the arms to move without this bind thus allowing the suspension to support the weight of the car properly and to allow much more predictive control to result.[QUOTE/]

Question - Where does one purchase these spherical ends for hotchkis arms??? Please... I will be putting mine one the ground very soon and this "snap oversteer" doesn't sound fun....

I don't know that the spherical ends could be attached to the Hotchkiss arms without serious modifications. If you want spherical ends on your arms it's best to buy arms built this way or make your own.

When the body leans in relationship to the axle or when the axle moves due to a bump or hole, the control arms don't simply pivot on the pivot points at either end of the 4 control arms and they don't simply move up and down perpendicular to the axis of the arm itself. The arms need to twist to some extent to allow the axle to move up and down. If the arms cannot twist, the bushing point binds and bad things happen.

The stock rubber bushings allow these non-axis movements to occur with moderate amounts of bind, solid bushings would allow almost no non-axis movements and the arm would not pivot up and down smoothly and the body would roll in unexpected and sudden ways thus not planting the appropriate amount of weight on the individual wheels attached to the axle. Also, if a bushing binds, the weight of the car tends to roll over that point instead of the pivot center created by the suspension components. If enough force is introduced to then suddenly overcome the bind, the susupenion jerks suddenly causing a rapid shift in the weight of the car and can cause a very unnerving situation called snap oversteer. It's as if someone were to jerk the steering wheel hard in the wrong direction just as you were turning through a corner hard.

Spherical ends allow the arms to move without this bind thus allowing the suspension to support the weight of the car properly and to allow much more predictive control to result.

More to your situation, more that the arms are not parallell to the length of the car, the more potential they have to bind. Since the upper arms are about 45 degrees from being parallel to the length of the car, they will bind more agressively than the lower arms which are within a few degrees of being parallel to the length of the car.

beautiful... i understand now. Thanks I'll be updating everyone with my progress next week