I found a place in north Houston that will acid strip my frame for $175. He said it would then be phosphate coated (not zinc phosphate, but he didn't say what kind). I would like to then paint with POR 15. Should I prime, or just POR 15 over the phosphate coating? If I need to prime, what kind of primer, and how should I prep the frame for priming? Also, I assume all welding and such should be done before going to the stripper?

As always, TIA Kevin

Kevin, Por goes on bare steel,aluminum,etc. No primer. Read the can it will tell ya what the manufacturer recommends. Por is great stuff, I use it regularly, especially on the back side of patch panels before welding them in. Check out having your frame powder coated after the acid dipping. The acid will get into the enclosed areas better than sand blasting but the powder will get into those areas better than spraying paint without the runs.Powder coating is so cheap these days especially if you count your time.
Both processes will give great results

I just can't see doing anything but powder coating. I have a place near me that will do a frame for $350.00. Sandblasting and all, $350.00. Figuring the primer and or paint would be about $200.00 minumum, that is a DEAL.

I have said it a zillion times. POR-15 is a product you use when you want to "save" some rusted part that you can't or don't want to properly repair.

Sandblast a piece of metal clean, etch primer, epoxy primer and top coat with urethane paint is the BEST way to refinish a item like a frame.

If you don't want to sand blast or clean off rust, POR-15 can do wonders. But it doesn't replace proper undercoats.

OK, I've found a guy who will sand blast and powder coat for about $300-400. He was asking about what kind of powder coating I wanted. What are my options? I know next to nothing about this technology. Epoxy, urethane, what else?

TIA, Kevin

martinsr and i 180 degrees dissagree on this issue. i think acid dipping is great. i also think por-15 is great. however in your case you need to know what the phosphate is. call por-15 and ask them if it is compatable. check out my web site i, i have frames acid dipped and zinc coated. Ancor makes a primer specificaly for going over zinc coatings it might be good for your coating as well. i dont think i would por-15 your frame, after getting it coated with what ever it is, i would think it should be emidiatly primerd and just painted with a durable latex water based paint. oil pased paints sometimes dont go good with phosphate coatings. my frames are holding up 100% INSIDE and out.

How well does powder coating get inside the frame? Whatever startegy I pursue, I want the most complete rust proofing I can get on the frame. I don't want to have to do this again any time soon. What kind of powder coating to use?

fofiddyfo, I did check out your site. Cool wagon!!
I like the idea of galvanizing the frame, it gets into all the nooks and crannies.

thanks, not only does powder coating not get all the way into the frame channels but either does the sand blasting. and if the inside is not sand blasted do you really want the powder coating covering any rust in there anyway?

What, I'm hearing is sand blasting and powder coating doesn't completely cover the inside of the frame. Acid stripping will definitely strip everywhere. It appears if you want total coverage on the frame, you need to dip (galvanize)or electrostically apply the coating. PPG makes an epoxy that can be electro coated. Do any of you Texas boys know of anyone in this area (Houston) doing ecoating? I am not sending my frame up north to Carponents!!

Kevin

Sandblasting and power coating looks great, but only where you can see it typically. I just finished a 69 convertible with blasting and POR-15 that also looks great, but sooooo much work to put it on.

Unfortunately, after I saw a website that showed acid-dipping and galvanizing I will certainly be going that route when the body comes off my 69 SS in the near future. I can't imagine a more thorough approach to preventing rust. My only concern is some of the information I have read about overcoating that indicates you must clean the galvanized surface with vinegar first???? I am concerned about paint adhesion, but there are primers that are specifically for galvanized surfaces - like the old zinc-chromate.

Originally posted by eduardo69chevelle:
Sandblasting and power coating looks great, but only where you can see it typically. I just finished a 69 convertible with blasting and POR-15 that also looks great, but sooooo much work to put it on.

Unfortunately, after I saw a website that showed acid-dipping and galvanizing I will certainly be going that route when the body comes off my 69 SS in the near future. . Galvanizing is for boat trailers :D Unfortunately, as soon as a piece of that galvanized coating chips or flakes off, and it will, you have rust eating away under the galvanizing and you will never see it until it's too late. IMO, the best bet is to wire brush/wheel the frame free of loose rust (leaving some surface rust) and coat with POR-15. It will look beautiful and will not allow water beneath it like galvanizing can graemlins/thumbsup.gif . Like eduardo said, adhesion could be a concern with the galvanizing also.

John, how do you apply the POR 15 to the inside of the frame? Aint you concerned about the rust inside the frame?

Martinsr, If you are still following this thread, your suggestion for etch priming, epoxy priming, and topcoat sounds like a good one. But again, how do you get all the interior surfaces of the frame covered so rust won't start its inevitable process?

Kevin

texas70, you do not know what you are talking about. if you do it is getting lost by the things you just wrote above. and i mean that in a kind way smile.gif in a nut shell, why you are incorrect. even if the galvanizing gets chippped and bare steel is exposed, the steel will not rust because the sourounding zinc will sacrifice it more unstable electrons before the steel will thereby protecting the steel from rusting. rust can not form under the zinc coating. also look at what ever caused this hypothertical scratch, what do you think will happen to a scratch in powder coating? it is not as strong as you think. and this situation will allow for rust to form under the powder coating where you wont see it.
about the vinigar wash, vinigar is an acid, it simply neutralizes the zinc oxidization that forms rather quickly on bare zinc. it is easily rinsed off with water, them primed. i dont see the problem :confused: where is the problem? ahhh

FO_FDYFO - have you painted over a frame that has had this treatment and how are the results? I do not have any experience with this and am only voicing a concern - vinegar is not a commonly used cleaner in most body shops. But of course this is not a commonly used automotive practice either. When you say the oxidation forms quickly, how much time after the vinegar wash is safe before priming (hours, days?) and what type of primer have you used? I am still very curious about this process but have not found a place around Dayton, OH that can galvanize a frame. Am I correct to assume that the two terms are interchangeable - zinc coating and galvanizing?

First of all, no I am not worried about the chassis of my car completely desintegrating from rust out from under me. Out of the millions of cars on the road over the last decades, I have yet to hear of a chassis falling apart from under someone while driving down the highway. It does not happen. If it were soaking in salt water 24 hours a day it would eventually be eaten away. Secondly, I have seen many galvanized boat trailers and other structural members that have lost some of the galvanizing and the zinc is not protecting them. Also, I never said anything about powder coating. If zinc is the cure all, then drill a hole in your chassis and put some inside.....problem solved.LOL :D

My whole point was, if someone wants to clean up the chassis and put a good looking tough coating on it without preparing it for "sub-sea" duty or carting it around the city for chemical treatments, then my opinion is to wire brush and POR-15. I can always touch up POR-15 if needed alot easier than I can go "hot dip galvanize" my chassis if a problem occurs. That's just my opinion smile.gif
And also.....Did I say anything, anywhere, ever, about vinEgar ???? :mad:
Sorry about the attitude everybody, but I don't think I am alone on this .... :rolleyes:

yes i have done this all several times. check out my web site. http://hometown.aol.com/smartasreality/page04.html
hopefully that will answer the questions. but specificallly, the results are great. i have one galvanized and painted frame sitting out in the wet dirt and leaves for 2 years now. looks new. yes galvanizing is a zinc coating. it is well know among the galvanizing industry to use vinigar. they even say you should mix it 50/50 with water. you have about 3 days before i would worry about the zinc oxidizing. the primer is a water bourn or water base so your frame can still be wet a little. 2700 series by Anchor Paint.com $14 per gallon. I put the vinigar in my paint gun and sprayed the frame down, i use a plastic brisseled scrub brush to brush over the surfaces, take the hose and spray it off, take the air hose and blow it off with air. by the time i mix the primmer and put it in the gun, the frame is ready to be primed. the following day it is ready to be painted with what ever you like. all galvanixed involved companies will favor latex water base paint. even though the paint does not touch the zinc and you would be ok to use whatever paint you want i recomend sticking with that too, the oil base paints have oils and chemicals that can react with the zinc that water based paints dont. the beauty of this is clean up. everything is water based and water clean up. the vinigar, the rinsing, the primer and the paint. graemlins/hurray.gif

no problem and i agree texas, except for a few untruths about galvanizing that was originaly stated above, it just depends on what level you want to do it and if a galvanizing place is close enough to consider using. i love por-15. if i did not have a galvanizing place an hour away thats the way i would have gone for sure. you did not mention powder coating but others have. powder coating has it uses, it is for new smooth metal, not fusty frames with deep inaccessable channels. no attitude take and none intended. ;)

Got to admit FO_FDYFO the frame looks great as does the wagon ! graemlins/thumbsup.gif The POR-15 would give similar (aesthetic) results but certainly would not provide the protection of the inside surfaces as the galvanizing procedure would. How much does it cost to have a frame dipped ? For the guys on a budget it may be restrictive :cool:
It seems like we are posting at the same time here graemlins/waving.gif

yeah, i think if i remember correctly it is like $250 minimum for 400 lbs. so one frame does not weiht 400 lbs so i took 2 and a bunch of other stuff. pretty darn cheap!!! i did not have to put any elbow grease into the frames either, just took them all rusty and dirty :cool: graemlins/waving.gif

I don't see how you could go wrong by having the chassis cleaned and dipped for $250. That would save a huge amount of time and elbow grease to have that done. I wish I had an easy way to get mine done (logistics). Thanks for the follow up. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

John, Aztec Galvanizing on the northwest side. But they said they would not do my frame (they do boat trailers). Maybe we can gang up on them, and get them to do the frames. Once primed, I guess we can topcoat with the coating of out choice?

Kevin

I have talked with two galvanizers in the Houston area, and one said they wouldn't do auto frames because they warp. It seems the 850 degree bath relieves stress in the frame and it can twist. The other galvanizer would do it, but warned the frame could twist. Fofiddyfo do you have any any input on these concerns?

BTW, $125 sand blasted, acid stripped and galvanized graemlins/hurray.gif

Kevin

A comment about frame rusting - I live in Ohio and yes it is possible to rust a frame to the point where it could require replacement. A friend was visiting recently and told of his 72 Chevelle frame being badly rusted and after rolling over a pot-hole buckled at the rear crossmember (over the springs). We are not so fortunate in the Midwest to have mild winters as some do.

I restored a 69 convertible this year and had to weld an 18" section in that same area. Honestly, I wish I had found another frame and had it galvanized. I want my cars to be around for my children after I'm gone, they should be worth a good bit in 2040 (always optimistic).

FO_FDYFO - thanks for the valuable info, it really sounds like the right approach. Less work and not expensive - the right ingredients. Seems like Mechanical Engineers have a fondness for Chevelles, my son and I own 3.

I took my convertible frame this morning to have it dipped and sandblasted for the total whopping price of $150.00. We don't have a galvanizer around Denver that I can find. I am not going to powdercoat the frame since it is a restoration. I did spend quite a bit of money having chassis work powder coated on my 57 when I was building it, and it does have it's place. Blasting and powdercoating around here is about $300.00.

Originally posted by eduardo69chevelle:
We are not so fortunate in the Midwest to have mild winters as some do.True, they only "sand" the roads here in Houston when the roads get icey which is rare in itself and I'm sure that if I lived in Ohio (I was born in Cleveland) I would be extremely concerened about protecting my car from the salt in the winter. I guess my point about wire brushing and POR-15 is better made down here on the gulf coast.
I have really learned alot though and am glad to hear that a chassis can be completely cleaned and stripped for $150. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I would be interested in knowing the story behind the warping or whatever...cause I was thinking about doing this same procedure to my project chevelle.

Warping was not a problem. it was a concern of the galvanizer but i said i would take the risk. i have measured every frame before and after galvanizing and there were no changes. is there a place near you that you are considering? another concern was that the frame had proper drain holes to let the zinc flow in and out, but they hung the frame by 1 corner and it allowed for great drainage even for convertible boxed frames. if you can do it go for it you will not regret it. doo the radiater support while you are at it. even the crossmember. i had to drill 1/2" holes on each end of the crossmember to allow drainage, they have turned out excellent! order the primer ahead of time so you have it ready, you really dont want to wait too long after you get it back.

Originally posted by kmchugh:
John, Aztec Galvanizing on the northwest side. But they said they would not do my frame (they do boat trailers). Maybe we can gang up on them, and get them to do the frames. Once primed, I guess we can topcoat with the coating of out choice?

Kevin Kevin,

Please give me Aztec's # and I will call and see what they will do. Dipping our chassis' will be exactly the same process as dipping a boat trailer. Would this be cleaning the frame and then hot-dip galvanizing I assume ??