OK... So, here goes. .030 over 454 BB Chevy... Forged flat-tops... -781's-> ported/pollished, milled, eliminator shim(?) on exh. vlve, 2.19/1.88's, 9:1 CR (hopefully)... CAM-> 590L/244 at .050/108LS... ISKY 292H (#396292)

MY QUESTION...... Dude at the machine shop (established business for more than 15 years) ported/pollished the heads and installed the bigger valves. The heads look terrific... A1!!! Anyhow, I had the "ISKY" springs (#8005-A?) that was 'supposed' to match the cam.

This is where "I WANT TO CRY"..... I walk in and he tells me that the spring pressure of the "DUAL SPRINGS" is way too much... Is too much pressure for the lifters/valves? (I ordered a cam/lifter kit... w/the Isky Springs to match) etc., etc.. He tells me that he took out the inner spring & that it still sits at 130+ Ft. Lbs... and that they will be all good with JUST the outers, etc., etc.!

This is where I come clean... "I don't know"... "I don't have a freakin' clue"... From what I've read on here... You just run the outters to break-in the cam/motor??? I am VERY CONFUSED and need some info from some of y'all guys! I've run these exact same springs b/f on some small closed-chamber's... when I pulled the heads- the valves were sunken pretty bad. Is this b/c of the extreme springs or general wear???

I just can't figure why an 'expert' would leave out the inner spring when that was a matching #'s part from ISKY??? I'm worried! Should I be? Or is that 'single' enough for my street-driven/occasionally dragged vehicle??

Again, I'm just some shadetree dude that does good to tear it apart and put it back together. :D I'm serious, I really need some SERIOUS ADVICE!

pdq67, Harrald, 1320, West, ???, I've been reading the board... I kinda know who's who!!! HHHEEELLLLPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYBODY, HELP?!!?


PLEASE help a shade-tree guy figure this mess out!!!! As I am starting to lose sleep over this chit!!! :(

What are the published specs for the springs? Recommended installed height/#?? Is the cam a flat tappet hyd?

What are the published specs for the springs? Recommended installed height/#?? Is the cam a flat tappet hyd?

1.875 installed height... 1.530 Dia... Rate 400 lbs. per inch... seat pressure 135 lbs.... Open Pressure 395 lbs..... Coil bind 1.160...

ya, flat tappet hyd!

I can see the builder wanting to keep the seat pressure around the 125-130 range, I'm just not sure leaving out the inner spring is the best way to do it. Do you know what the seat pressure was with the inner installed?? Personally, I would try to get my seat pressures by varying the installed height and leave the inner spring installed, this way you're not affecting the spring rate, just the seat/nose pressures. Hopefully Mike L. or BillK will see this tomorrow and help. Rotsa ruck!

I can see the builder wanting to keep the seat pressure around the 125-130 range, I'm just not sure leaving out the inner spring is the best way to do it. Do you know what the seat pressure was with the inner installed?? Personally, I would try to get my seat pressures by varying the installed height and leave the inner spring installed, this way you're not affecting the spring rate, just the seat/nose pressures. Hopefully Mike L. or BillK will see this tomorrow and help. Rotsa ruck!
Thanx a bunch Mr. Wilson. Even that little bit of advice is enough to help me sleep tonight! :) Much abliged!

Good night and God Bless!

I'm with John, don't want to seperate the springs, change springs or installed height to get the correct pressures. You would probably lose valve control and spring life quickly with the inners left out.

I agree with the others. He took a short cut.

Would you know the installed height you have?

Steal learnin, did he CC the heads when they were done? I realize they're milled, but it's not likely you're at 9/1 c/r with 781 heads (fairly large chamber) and flat top pistons. And the porting opens them up even more. Im only saying that because if affects your cam choice quite a bit. Tell us more about the machine work...was the block 0 decked? What head gasket? And I also agree, dont run just the outer springs...they're supposed to work together for a reason. John

OK... So, here goes. .030 over 454 BB Chevy... Forged flat-tops... -781's-> ported/pollished, milled, eliminator shim(?) on exh. vlve, 2.19/1.88's, 9:1 CR (hopefully)... CAM-> 590L/244 at .050/108LS... ISKY 292H (#396292)

MY QUESTION...... Dude at the machine shop (established business for more than 15 years) ported/pollished the heads and installed the bigger valves. The heads look terrific... A1!!! Anyhow, I had the "ISKY" springs (#8005-A?) that was 'supposed' to match the cam.

This is where "I WANT TO CRY"..... I walk in and he tells me that the spring pressure of the "DUAL SPRINGS" is way too much... Is too much pressure for the lifters/valves? (I ordered a cam/lifter kit... w/the Isky Springs to match) etc., etc.. He tells me that he took out the inner spring & that it still sits at 130+ Ft. Lbs... and that they will be all good with JUST the outers, etc., etc.!

This is where I come clean... "I don't know"... "I don't have a freakin' clue"... From what I've read on here... You just run the outters to break-in the cam/motor??? I am VERY CONFUSED and need some info from some of y'all guys! I've run these exact same springs b/f on some small closed-chamber's... when I pulled the heads- the valves were sunken pretty bad. Is this b/c of the extreme springs or general wear???

I just can't figure why an 'expert' would leave out the inner spring when that was a matching #'s part from ISKY??? I'm worried! Should I be? Or is that 'single' enough for my street-driven/occasionally dragged vehicle??

Again, I'm just some shadetree dude that does good to tear it apart and put it back together. :D I'm serious, I really need some SERIOUS ADVICE!

pdq67, Harrald, 1320, West, ???, I've been reading the board... I kinda know who's who!!! HHHEEELLLLPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYBODY, HELP?!!?


PLEASE help a shade-tree guy figure this mess out!!!! As I am starting to lose sleep over this chit!!! :(
=
First, I doubt you have 9.0 compression unless he milled the snot out of your heads & that is a very big cam for that compression.
You are probably closer to 8.0
But to your question,,,
Actually you may be able to run just the outer as it has a damper. This would be about like running the Comp 911's which they recommend for a lot of their hyd stuff except the 911 coil binds sooner.

I do not know the rate of just the outer though, you need to call Isky & ask.
The 8005 is rated at 135 @ 1.875, 395 @ 1.225, 400lbs/in
Your cam lift is .573 w/1.7 rockers.
This means you would be about 365 open assuming you are installed at 1.875.
Excellent for a race car but in my opinion, this is pushing the pressure for a hyd flat tappet cam for the street.
I would like to see 350 max for most applications, normally less if it is a driver.
Listen to your machinist, he may know what he is talking about.
Hey,, at least he did not just stick the spring on because it was a "kit" & assume it was ok :D

I personally would bite the bullet & install a different spring now.
All you are out is the price of springs.
If the cam goes tits up,,,,,, you will be back with a sad post,,,:sad:

=
First, I doubt you have 9.0 compression unless he milled the snot out of your heads & that is a very big cam for that compression.
You are probably closer to 8.0


Listen to your machinist, he may know what he is talking about.
Hey,, at least he did not just stick the spring on because it was a "kit" & assume it was ok :D

Thanx Wolf...
Ya,,, as I kinda eluded to, 9:1 was a "HOPEFULL". Anyhow, on to the heads...

I have tried to convince myself that the "machine shop guy" wouldn't put all that TIME porting/pollishing my heads just to short-cut on the springs. After-all, this is a guy in a town of +/- 20,000 people. Reputation is on the line, etc... Guy has been in business for more than 15 years, etc.... The porting & pollishing of the heads look terrific! I think I'm going to take him for his word. ;)

Worst case... after "break-in" I'll have to install the "inners" and run the valves again.

Yes/No???????? Suggestions?????????


Anyhow, I very much appreciate all of y'all guys advice and everything y'all told me! As my name states.... I'm steal-a-learn'n!

THANX WOLF.... I OWE YA!!! :D

Keep the info a'flowin guys (as I'm still trying to learn)! Do y'all guys got any info/advise on my current set-up... etc.???





Whew... 1:48am... I'll have to respond later....
GOD BLESS AND GOOD NIGHT!!!!
Y'ALL HAVE A GOOD'N TOMORROW!

I would be spring shopping.

The pressure listed with just the outer springs will probably be about right to wipe the cam out on break in.

You need to know what installed height you are running now.

1.875 installed height... 1.530 Dia... Rate 400 lbs. per inch... seat pressure 135 lbs.... Open Pressure 395 lbs..... Coil bind 1.160...

ya, flat tappet hyd! I ran those springs with a old ZL-1 cam and they were great. If your real worried get the lifters with the EDM hole in the bottom for extra lube but frankly i'd put the inners back in after break in. Wolfplace can tell you more about what's available. My cam lasted several thousand miles but it was mostly drag raced. There was never a sign of valve float with them. Great springs as far as i'm concerned, would go over 8000 RPM without float and the cam never went flat. Seat pressure should never be low as that will allow those extra hard keepers to work the tops off the valves and you'll drop one. He didn't throw the inners away did he? It's not a very hard job to put them in if your careful. If you have low spring pressure the valve will bounce when it comes back down on the seat and the second and third time it hits the seat is when they break the heads off the valves. This is a bigger problem with Roller cams. Low spring pressure is right below spun bearings for things that damage engines.

I agree with Wolfplace on the springs, definitly when approaching 350 open requires very carefull break in for the cam, and normally you'd pull the inners at that ## level, but since that pressure is with the inners out allready I'd be spring shopping too.

I agree with Wolfplace on the springs, definitly when approaching 350 open requires very carefull break in for the cam, and normally you'd pull the inners at that ## level, but since that pressure is with the inners out allready I'd be spring shopping too.


Thats what I was trying to say. It sounds better from you.:)