I just installed the Fat Man drop spindle and really love the ride...except when I hit a bump and almost go off the road. Is there anything I can do about this? I've seen the Baer Tracker system that supposed to eliminate this. Has anyone tried this.

I also saw the Flaming River Rack and Pinon setup which looks promising but expensive and alot of work. I would love R&P but from what I can see its only manual steering.

Any other options out there, guess I should have listened to everyone that recommended the drop spindles instead...oh well live and learn

Thanks

Corey

Which holes did you bolt the steer-arm to? There are upper, and lower holes; the upper ones are for the caliper bracket only (stock location in relation to the pin), and the lowers are for the steer arm (close to stock location in relation to the lower ball-joint).

When they designed this spindle, they designed it for the first-gen Camaro, and to reduce bumpsteer in the F & X bodies, they lowered the steer-arm about 1/2". The problem is, on a Chevelle, it needs to be raised about 1/2" to minimize the bumpsteer.

The Baer bumpsteer kit actually lowers the tie-rod ends... by how much, I'm not sure.

If you have the arm on the upper holes, it is about 1-1/2" too high, and the bumpsteer kit will help... not sure if it will help enough, but it will help.

If you have the arm on the lower holes, it's about 1" too low, and the bumpsteer kit will make it worse, however, running a more aggressive caster setting will help to some extent, but there's no way you'll get a whole inch out of it.

Derek hit the nail on the head-- the best way to get rid of the excessive bumpsteer with the Fatman spindles is to get rid of the Fatman spindles.

They sell and market them for a-body applications but the steering arm is totally incorrect and even worse than a stock spindle-- which isn't so hot to begin with.

How low is your car? If not ground-scraping low the better option is to put your stock spindles back on and accomplish the drop with springs. When doing a spring drop about as low as you want to go is the point when the outer ball joint is even with or just above the inner pivot points which should get you down pretty far.

Another possible solution would be to buy circle track outer tie rods that use rod ends, drill the steering arms out straight and then bolt the rod ends to the tops of the steering arms rather than the bottom-- this will get the height of the outer tie rod in a much more correct location and help cut down on bump steer.

Gokou, about the option of getting the tie-rods with rod ends, what do you mean by "drilling the steerings out straight"? Has this been done before? How much will this improve it. I hate to get rid of the spindles, they really do improve the handling on my car...of course with a big price though.

Thanks

Corey

He means drilling out the taper of the steer arm so you can run a bolt through and attach the tie rod via a rod-end on the top side, rather than the bottom side of the steer arm... but I'd bet this will probably put it too high. :clonk:

I wonder if ATS would give out the specs on their A-body steer arm for their AFX spindle, and if they would sell it separately???

ATS also lowered the steer arm on their spindles to eliminate bumpsteer on the F & X bodies, but they designed new steer arms for the Chevelle to fix the problem.

He means drilling out the taper of the steer arm so you can run a bolt through and attach the tie rod via a rod-end on the top side, rather than the bottom side of the steer arm... but I'd bet this will probably put it too high. :clonk:

I wonder if ATS would give out the specs on their A-body steer arm for their AFX spindle, and if they would sell it separately???

ATS also lowered the steer arm on their spindles to eliminate bumpsteer on the F & X bodies, but they designed new steer arms for the Chevelle to fix the problem.

Who is ATS? Anyone have any contact info.

I looked into that ATS spindle but you can't use it with the Baer track brakes that I have. I think that would have done the trick though.

If I do the drill of the spindle and go that way, even if it was too high, would that work? Is going back to the stock spindle and use tall ball joints an option too?

Thanks

Corey

Before you drill out the spindle arms, ...take a look at:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/aspx/paging.yes/dept_id.107/display_id.3333/qx/Product.htm

Has anyone tried these?

That looks like it would actually lower the steering arm more, which would be worse for bumpsteer.

I talked to Tyler at ATS and they have a steering arm that they claim will work for this. The link is below. Has anybody used this, I'm not quite clear where it would mount and what it does.

https://secure13.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=ats&BusType=BtoC&Count1=572567164&Count2=489707589

Thanks

Corey

Who is ATS? Anyone have any contact info.

American Touring Specialties, www.t56kit.com

Here is their steer arm: https://secure1.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=ats&BusType=BtoC&Count1=440181910&Count2=357322335 I'd ask for some specs before ordering to find out how much it raises the tie-rod end... It should help considerably, but from the pic, it looks like it may not raise it enough. (?)

I'd also talk to Mark at SC&C ( www.scandc.com ) as I believe he's probably more familiar with the specs on the Fatman spindle, and he helped with the design of ATS's steer arm, so he'd know the specs on it as well as anybody. He's probably more familiar with the Chevelle chassis and he's an ATS dealer as well. :)

If I do the drill of the spindle and go that way, even if it was too high, would that work? Is going back to the stock spindle and use tall ball joints an option too?The stock-spindle/tall ball-joint setup is a great option, and IMHO better than any drop spindle (unless you want to go VERY low, which will require removing your inner fenders). However, if you already have the Fatman spindles, I'd just try to fix the bumpsteer.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/aspx/paging.yes/dept_id.107/display_id.3333/qx/Product.htm

Has anyone tried these? Those are meant for lowering the tie-rod end, and will actually, make it worse.

So Derek, I'm confused. I looked on the ATS site and saw the AFX spindle that everyones been raving about. It looks, though, that if you get this spindle for a chevelle, you need a steering arm anyway. So, what's the difference between the AFX spindle and the Fatman spindle that nobody seems to be into anymore other than one is aluminum and ones is steel.

Thanks

Corey

So, what's the difference between the AFX spindle and the Fatman spindle that nobody seems to be into anymore other than one is aluminum and ones is steel.

Thanks

Corey

The main difference is we actually know what the hell we are doing with the A body suspensions. I just got off the phone with Derek @ Fatman and I was shocked to hear the tech info he was dumping on me. First and foremost, they honestly believe they have fixed the bumpsteer issue by lowering the steering arm attachment point. While this is good for F/X body cars, it makes it even worse than factory for the A body cars. When I brought up that the cars were front steer and it would need to be raised, not lowered, he told me that was a common misconception. I then asked about the replacement of the upper control arm to get out of ball joint bind, and he told me it was not needed!! I asked him why it is needed on the B body spindles (and our AFX spindles) and he told me it was because of the upper ball joint taper difference only. I would recommend to anyone running a Tall Fatman spindle to change the upper control arm with one from SC&C, Global West, or Hotchkis, because if you are running a factory arm, you are in ball joint bind.

Needless to say, they have zero clue what to do on an A body, and it seems they think that if it works on a Camaro, then it will work on an A body too, since they cars share the same spindle.

The difference between our spindle and theirs is that we have engineered our spindle to work flawlessly on the A body platform, and can configure it to multiple variations for those who have done mods to their car already. If you have a B body spindle on the car now, we can outfit our spindle to have matching ball joint tapers so it will be a direct bolt on, and correct the steering radius and bumpsteer issues. We also use a C5 hub that has bearings that are 3 times larger than a factory spindle, and being a sealed hub it never needs to be repacked ever again. Another positive, is our spindle is forged in the USA, not overseas.

Tyler

That's very interesting Tyler. Very scary too. Not only did I get the spindles from them, but the upper control arms too. It doesn't appear to be a problem with bind, I think they are shorter, but who knows.

I know very little about suspension, and even I understand the difference between the F-body and A-body design. You see their ads in all the magazines now catering to the A-body crowd, sad that they don't know what the heck they're doing, I even asked about bumpsteer when I called and ordered and was told "it would be improved from factory".

I ordered the steering arms that you sell, so hopefully that will fix the problem with bumpsteer. The guy said that it supposedly raises the steering arm 5/8" above factory, which should be good.

I'll post the results after I get it installed.

Thanks

Corey

Corey,

I have the Baer Track brake package that included 2 inch drop spindles (modified) made by Superior. The bumpsteer is scary at freeway speeds. As a consequence, I keep my speed below 65mph, take corners slow, and no one else drives the car. If you're looking for a lowered, low-speed cruiser, then the setup is fine. I like to drive my cars.

I just received all the parts from SC&C (A arms and ball joints), ATS (spindles and steering arm), Bear (C5 compatible rotors), GM (Corvette calipers), and Global West (lower A arm) to convert everything to the AFX spindle. Work starts next week and I'll post my opinions. I have to say the people I've talked with at SC&C and ATS have sharp answers to ALL my simpleton quesitons. The calls to them always end with an offer for support. I think the parts listed above (the complete conversion) cost me somewhere around $2K. A bit high for some people I suppose, but I'm confident of worthwhile results. I'm also adding new springs and steering box to the already installed new steering linkage and swaybar. Should be fun.

If I can help answer questions, send me a message.

Mike

I definately drive my Chevelle, about 13K miles a year, and want a safe, reliable, comfortable ride but want it to handle well too. I like the way it drives now except when you hit a bump at highway speeds...then you take your life in your hands getting it back straight again. That's really what its been like the past few months for me. I'm very disappointed that FatMan not only didn't address this issue but gave me wrong information when I asked about it when ordering. Now I want to correct it and it looks like the AFX steering will do that without replacing my FatMan spindle or brakes or anything else.

We'll see, though there seems to have been quite a few people who have done this and liked it. I too have been impressed with ATS.

Mike, thats quite an impressive list of parts to put on, good luck with it and let us know how it turns out. I will also.

Thanks

Corey

The main difference is we actually know what the hell we are doing with the A body suspensions.

LMAO :D :thumbsup:

Corey,


I just received all the parts from SC&C (A arms and ball joints), ATS (spindles and steering arm), Bear (C5 compatible rotors), GM (Corvette calipers), and Global West (lower A arm) to convert everything to the AFX spindle. Work starts next week and I'll post my opinions. I have to say the people I've talked with at SC&C and ATS have sharp answers to ALL my simpleton quesitons. The calls to them always end with an offer for support. I think the parts listed above (the complete conversion) cost me somewhere around $2K. A bit high for some people I suppose, but I'm confident of worthwhile results. I'm also adding new springs and steering box to the already installed new steering linkage and swaybar. Should be fun.

If I can help answer questions, send me a message.

Mike


Please let us know what you think of your new setup once you get it on the road. I am also thinking of using this simular setup.

Looking forward to hearing the results!

If you have a B body spindle on the car now, we can outfit our spindle to have matching ball joint tapers so it will be a direct bolt on, and correct the steering radius and bumpsteer issues. We also use a C5 hub that has bearings that are 3 times larger than a factory spindle, and being a sealed hub it never needs to be repacked ever again.
I have a complete Global West setup for the front with B-body spindles, upper & lower arms, QA-1 coil overs, and 13" Wilwood brakes. Are you saying I can just change out the spindles for yours, keep everything else I have, and bump steer goes away? If that's the case, I may have to check these out. If I have to do a brake swap as well, that may be too costly right now. What about changes to ride height and track width?

Dave,
You will have to convert over to C5/C6 style rotors and calipers in order to use the AFX spindles. I've got my AFX spindles, getting ready to order the rotors and calipers probably next month. I've spoke to both Tyler and Shane over at ATS and they are both great at helping answer any questions you have. In fact they actually called me back twice to let me know the status of my order! Highly recommended.
One thing to note on the Baer system, I noticed that the lower I went with my car (Stance) the worse the bump steer gets. If you're going to keep your ride height near stock, you may not notice much bump steer, but what's the point in doing that....the goal is to lower the center of gravity of the car and yield the benefits of weight transfer. The Baer adjustable tie rod ends do nothing to improve the bump steer on our A bodies, in fact they make it worse because the adjustment is in the wrong direction. They actually lower the tie rod ball joint when it needs to be raised...closer to the spindle steering arm location!!
Sam

Has anybody tried simply flipping the tie-rod end? I know it is a commen practice with many late model ford trucks with air ride suspension who need to "lower" the position to get closer to the stock position of the steering arms. (On the F-150's the tie-rod end mounts on top of the steering knuckle.) I do not know if the flip on a chevelle will work or not, just a question to pose for the guru's.

It wouldn't work, as the stock arm curves up between the bolt holes around the lowerball-joint, and would interfere with the ball-joint if mounted upside-down.

Sam,
Thanks for the info. I may definitely have to pursue this, depending on how saturated the market is with people looking to offload B-body spindle and brake setups. :D