Many months ago I said that you would see the day that a clone or recreation would be worth as much or more then the real thing.

A few of you blasted me pretty good, but I knew you would.

Now to the point.

This was a matching number with a build sheet, you can check it out on barrett Jacksons web site. While they were bidding on this car the commentator said, I wonder if it would bring more money if it had a few upgrades, like a newer bigger engine or whatever.

A couple of major changes have taken place, I'll say within the last year and a half or two years in the collector car market.

We now have a more educated public on what to look for in a car, and a lot of potential buyers are using the internet to find a car.

A lot of the muscle car dealers are showing the undersides and interiors etc. of there cars, which increases the chances of finding an out of state buyer. The digital camera has made the biggest impact on it since the internet.

Twenty years ago a lot of muscle cars were sold overseas, then the market dwindled because of the rust starting to show up more often, now with the digital camera it has started to pick up again.

Barrett Jackson mentions quite often on there auction about people buying quality, well the baby boomers are coming into this market, and it's a pretty sure bet they will use the internet and pictures when they start looking.

The higher end cars with matching numbers will still demand lots of dollars, but the 325 and 350 horse chevelles are leveling off, if I had one of these and was considering selling it, I would let it go.

A lot of new or potentially new chevelle owners ask the question on this forum, how much is this car worth.

It wouldn't be a bad idea for them to also ask, what will it be worth when its done.

Prices of cars are determined by the original cost you pay plus time material and quality, and quality has become more of a factor in the final price then it ever used to be.

A good majority of these baby boomers have double incomes, and they can and will spend the money it takes to get a muscle car, and its a sure bet most of the cars they buy will be driven, well, if they do there homework, they will more in likely go with the newer upgrades, I would think.

Just an old mans opinion.

Rob

what's your point?

The market has been driven by the baby boomers for years.

I took this off from google.

Baby boomers drive resurgence of classic cars

Forty-to-58-year-olds buying vehicles they never could afford

I didn't mean to have this come out this big, anyway I'm not real good at copying and pasteing. You are correct Dean, but moreso now then ever.

And my point chevelless1, of which I tried to point out several things, is, that clones and reincarnations are bringing more dollars, due to an educated public. There aren't enough SS's out there to go around, so here come the clones, and if it has some new upgrades and the restoration is of good quality, it will go for the higher dollar.

Matching numberd cars will still bring respectable dollars, but in some cases the clone will bring more money. Baby boomers don't store and take there suv's to shows, they drive them, and when they buy a classic car, they are going to drive it, so which is more driveable, reliable.

We have access to better motors, transmissions, tires, radiators etc. and guarantees come with a lot of it. What guarantee can you get with a matching numbered car.

You can set on this computer and build a new SS with a credit card, the baby boomer can price out your clone right here, he can find out what all those new parts cost, and he doesn't have to be a gearhead to do it.

Back to what I said originally, Cost of car, time, material and quality, all this is available to the baby boomer without leaving his computer.

If he buys a clone, he doesn't have to research or find out who owned or what is real or what isn't.

Theres a new market out there for these cars, and when the market changes, it has an effect on all segments, matching or clone.

I would love to have a matching numbered chevelle, I probably will never be able to own a higher end one, but if I was going to spend between 75 and 100 thousand on one, I know I would buy the one with the newer parts, because I sure would drive it.

Rob

Barrett Jackson show amazes me. The bidders are nuts. There are other venues to find these cars. Do some research and you just might get lucky. As far as the market, who knows? Numbers matching and with rare options, just something to look at in my opinion. Maybe BJ is a "collector car" auction.

Rob, you are right on.
But, don't expect a lot of understanding.
If I had a genuine SS, I would'nt be too happy with
what you are saying.

btw, mine is a clone to everyone else.
To me, its the real thing.

Dave, you're right, some of them might not be to happy with what I said, but the matching numbered people are the meat and potatoes of this forum, I ask them a lot of questions and have got lots of help from them. I have spent probably 6000 hours on several of these car forums in the last year and a half, retirees have that luxury.

There are a lot of experts in all aspects of these cars, and they are willing to help, and I will continue to ask questions on here, and they will help me out as they always have, I would bet on it.

They know what I put on here is just an old mans opinion, If I was a little sharper I would be able to smooth things out on what I have to say.

I've been beating the drum on these clones for a long time, and it just seems like they never will get the respect they deserve.

Rob

I'll tell you what I do know, Rob.. I have been following that car that you have been building for quite some time now & it's going to be worth a pretty good sum.. Top notch build from what I've seen, and that's ALWAYS going to bring a pretty penny..:thumbsup:

Take a look around, the hobby is slowly moving towards quality as much as authenticity, so many dealers have bought up so many of the numbers cars and done poor back yard quality work to them (as in, paint it black, all of it !!) adding to the protecto plate and build sheet scams, quality is really making a difference, a very well done believeable car with no docs will bring wat a documented car would 5 years ago,and the 100% proveable legit numbers car with docs and well done is pretty much unobtainable for most of us, thus the the quality of the restoration makes a big difference to the first time buyer, which would he pay 40K for ? a nice frame car with no docs or a numbers match build sheet (if its not a restamp, or fake docs) car dun by one of these butcher dealers ?? I can almost gaurantee the nicer of the two will bring the top buck, now to the do it your selfer or the purest,, there is no comparison, but to a novice first time or no hands on buyer,, hes gunna take the one that done and done right.its no longer just us hands on folks hobby anymore, gunna be interesting to watch the next 5 years or so,, JMHO

That was a really nice compliment Scott, thank you.

Rob

Rob,
I agree with you and I think I understand the point you are making.

Seems that the nicely done more modern restos are bringing as much as a #'s car as of late. I credit that to demand.

Remember about 20 years ago when you customized your car with headers, chrome this and chrome that.......when it came time to sell you took a loss. Why??? Because odds are the guy looking at buying your creation wanted it a little different here and a little different there. So your customizations weren't as appealing to him, and the value was lost.
I have always built my cars so that they will appeal to the buyer. That's where the smart money is. Sunroofs and N50-15's on nostalgic Cragars probably aren't what will add to the value of your muscle car.

Today, it's a literal feeding frenzy for these cars. I keep hearing of bidding wars, where a car is advertised in the local paper and the seller ends up taking offers well above the asking price.
I even succumed to this back in 1990 when I picked up my 69 Chevelle convert. I offered $1500 and went home. The guy calls me the next day, says he has an offer of $1600 and if I want to go $1700, he'll sell it to me. I thought about it for 2.5 seconds and said yes.

Today you can build a nice stock looking Chevelle with a crate engine, a modern trans with overdrive and it will bring as much as a #'s car.
I think we're going to see the trend swing towards the modern updated driver. #'s cars are quickly turning into garage kept investments. But I think as time goes on, less and less people will want this type of car.
Like you, I'd rather be driving mine too !:D

I can't beleive how much muscle cars have gone up in vlaue in the last 5 years or so. I remeber less than ten years ago I was buying 70 Cudas, matching numbers and all, for less than 20k! I passed on a '70 AAR back in 2000 for 20k. Today AAR's are selling for 85k!! I bought my 1970 LS6 Chevelle with only 17,000 original miles, tripple black, 4 speed, buildsheet, POP, prior owner(s) history, for 21k dollars! Same car today worth 75k or more. I understand that the cost of restoration and all, been there, done that, but muscle cars selling for 50-100k still amazes me. You would think that not many of us could afford to spend 100k on a muscle car. The real question is just how much higher will these cars go?? Yes, clones are bringing staggering money as well. I beleive that quality cars, that are original with matching numbers, will always be worth that much more. Frankly, I am thinking about selling off my colection and just putting the money in tax free municaple bonds that yeild close to 5% (tax free). Every 100k dollars earns 5k a year in tax free income. Heck, that interst income will pay the payment on a new '07 or '08 (when it comes out) Challenger. Still have a '70 Cuda, '68 Charger, and a '69 Camaro Z-28 rs,ss. In todays market I am sitting on 200k. That would earn 10k a year in interest. Just a thought...

These cars are like land now. God's not making anymore of em. That's always the bottom line. As for me personally, I just bought a 69 Chevelle because I love em. I was looking for 2 cars. Either a 68 Camaro or 69 Chevelle. The camaro's were about $7k more for the same condition car I got in the chevelle. As far as the drivability or collectability. I want to drive mine. I am going to make it as nice as I can, but more important to me is modern safety & performance. I will pay more for little things like reliability, longevity & peace of mind.

I'll tell you what I do know, Rob.. I have been following that car that you have been building for quite some time now & it's going to be worth a pretty good sum.. Top notch build from what I've seen, and that's ALWAYS going to bring a pretty penny..:thumbsup:
DITTO :)

Thanks Mike.

Rob