OK, as you probably know, i just went thru swapping engines--small block to small block. Here are some of my observations and subsequent suggestions to possibly help you if you are going to switch out engines:

1) First off all, i think it is a pain in the arse. You really need 2, really 3, 4, or 5 people to help you. One of those people is in charge of getting food and drink. Another person is in charge of taking pictures and/or drawing diagrams so that you can put everthing back together again properly. Another person is in charge of tools much like a nurse's responsibility in the O.R. is to hand the doc the different instruments. If you get the picture of what i'm saying, then if you choose to undertake this yourself, then you are basically doing the job of 3 or 4 people yourself.

a) The car makes all the difference in the world. This one went into a truck. Now RELAX; I have had a chevelle before and i will probably own another one soon. Plus, you guys are so knowledgeable about engines---even more so than the camaro guys i think. That's why i came to you.

Now, i used to think that the larger the engine bay is, the easier things would be, but i think i've changed my mind; I had to climb into the engine bay probably no less than 50 times for this swap. Because unless you're 6'5"+ there's no way you can reach anything in there. (this is a 83 C-10) Conversely, i did an engine swap in a corvette 79 and it was much easier. YOu might think that with the tight engine bay it would be more difficult but no---everythings right in front of you. Plus the foward tilt hood really helps too. Newer corvettes are even better with the clamshell hood. In general, i find working on smaller cars are much easier than larger ones. Best scenario is small car, small engine.

So, we need to consider whether or not to take the front clip off in alot of cases; I think it would make things much easier in a quite a few cases. Most chevelles, at least the 67-77's, are rather large. The "newer" ones, 78-83, can probably be sucessfully done w/out taking the front clip off.

2) Should i take the transmission out as well?
This is your call. I think if i were to do it again, i would take the trans out as well. It would probably be easier; It is a P.I.T.A to try to line the engine and trans up. And then i got my temp wire and some other oil sensor wire caught between the engine and trans flange.
Those tilter mechanisms that can be used to lift the engine and trans are rather inexpensive at $55 at summit etc.

a)I found the trans to engine bolts (6 i believe) not easy at all. Especially the ones near the top, near the dist. Do you have any suggestions.

3) TAKE PICTURES OF EVERYTHING AND/0R DRAW PICTURES OF EVERYTHING.
A digital camera would be ideal. Whatever the case, pictures and/or drawings are a must. I got stuck on the A/C bracket because i "forgot" to make a picture. So, it cost me a few hours snooping on the internet and in bookstores.

4) GATHER ALL TOOLS AND SUPPLIES B/4 STARTING THE PROJECT:
And a good thing about SBC's is you don't need that many tools. 9/16, 1/2, and 5/8 sockets and wrenches i think?
The only other tools i would suggest would be a rubber strap-type wrench---to get the fan flange bolts off the water pump pulley; The strap wrench will prevent the pulley from turning. A flywheel turner is helpful although technically not manditory.

Another thing i really suggest, not just for engine swaps, but all automotive work are those disposable neoprene plastic gloves. The come in boxes of 100 or so. They allow you to feel the small nuts and bolts as if you didn't have gloves on. The only negative thing is your hands will get sweaty. But they'll stay milky white (or chocolate whatever the case may be). The point i'm trying to make is that your hands will stay clean.

The other tool i suggest is a good stand for the engine that is coming out. It needs a good stand. I especially like this one: i got it at jeg's for $80 and i think it's worth it:
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g110/eletrikal/enginestand1.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g110/eletrikal/enginestand2.jpg

It's got wheels which makes it real convenient and you can run the engine on this stand so you can use it as a test stand.

5) Recommended books on the subject.
(NOte: will continue tomorrow; too sleepy plus my head is still spinning from the experience)

Way to go on getting your project done! You make a lot of good points. A lot of the project is hard to do for a hack mechanic like me, lacking nice equipment like floor lifts, transmission jacks, air tools, etc.

The one thing I take issue with you is the rubber gloves. What is the point of working on your car without having black stuff under your finger nails and little cuts and scrapes on your hands and arms???

UPDATE: 8/13

DISASTER!; post suspended until further notice.

that didn't sound too good. What happened?

Well, let's put it this way:

ALWAYS CHECK THE ENGINE YOU ARE GOING TO PUT IN; NEVER ASSUME IT'S OK JUST BECAUSE YOU RAN IT FOR A FEW SECONDS 3 YEARS AGO.

I'll reveal the whole story in a few days (hopefully).

Until then, i've got work to do. Hello 350 (again) goodbye 305, it was nice knowing you for the 3 days we were together.

I thought you started the 305 on your engine stand and had it running in your truck. What did I tell you about those gloves . . .. You have a chance to redeem yourself.

I did. And it actually runs pretty good. The problem is whats coming out of the tailpipes when the thermostat opened up. Remember the Bond films of the sixties with that silver aston martin? Yeah.

Please see my recent posts entitled, "The crate/target 350" and "The SBC and care of the SBC."

I will reveal the whole story when this matter is resolved. The key word is when.

Do you now have a steam engine?? How green of you! Ralph Nader would be proud.

i would ask that you not joke around at a time like this. Thank you.

Once again, let's suspend the post until further notice, OK?

OK, everything is basically ok again. So, i guess we can continue:

The second time was a hell of a lot easier.

2) revised:

It was much easier to connect the engine and trans this time. What i would suggest is to jack the tranmission in the front as high as possible so that the flexplate/flywheel will clear(get under) the trans's bellhousing. After that, if the engine is centered and in phase with the mounts that are bolted to the frame, then the dowels should line up fairly easily.

I've changed my mind about taking the engine and trans out together. Taking the engine out by itself is much easier in my opinion.

2a) revised:
The six trans to engine bolts are a hell of a lot easier to get to with the distributor out.

4) additional tools/supplies:
In addition to the tools i've mentioned above you need lots of paper towels--about 5 rolls. If you don't have a creeper, then you need lots of cardboard boxes broken down.

5)Recommended books on the subject:
How to rebuild your small block chevy by David Vizard. He's real thorough.
How to rebuild the small block chevy---larry atherton/sheib.


It went much, much quicker this time and i wore the gloves and NEVER had to wash my hands. GOJO might be good but it stinks---literally. I mean, do you think that is attractive?

It only gets easier after you do it a couple of times. I can have the 400 out of my camaro in less than a hour. The trick is to plan ahead, I just gather a ratchet with long extensions and a 9/16 swivel. open end wrench for the torque converter bolts, 11/16 and 5/8 for the motor mounts. I just undo everything under the car, then go up top yank the dist. undo the headers, unhook wiring,drain rad. pull the rad and fan shroud. unhook fuel. pull the hood, pull the motor! If it was any other brand it would take me awhile because I wouldn't have a clue on bolt sizes etc. Jim

The first time i removed my engine i taped all the wires with tags so i knew where they went and i had a buddy over to help me. Next three times i did it, it was by myself and i found it really pretty easy. Once you do it once it seems pretty easy but i should ammend this by saying i did all of this to a '77 truck. The wiring "harness" consists of like five wires so its easy to remember how everything went back together. 12ga orange to distributor, 16 gauge green to temp sender, 14ga green to a/c, etc I have it all memorized :D

I've got a 400 as well and it doesnt take me more than an hour to pull it either - the hardest part for me is removing the hood because its heavy and big. I have to carefully slide it off onto a creeper where i can roll it out of the way.

My guess is, engine removal becomes tougher and tougher the more modern you go. Then you have to worry about tons of wires, there's less room to work, etc. Good luck with your project!!

I would like to add to #4):

1) Fire exstinguisher. I think you can pick up a cheap one at home depot. If you can't afford the extinguisher, you can't afford to play.

2) First aid kit. in conjunction with a cell phone.
If you work on cars alone, like i did in an industrial park after hours and something happened, what would you do?

Best thing is to work on cars with others or with others around. I.e., at home.

B) Proceedures:
I would like to ask all how they get their water pump pulley off to switch it from engine to engine? I used a rubber strap wrench to un do the pulley bolts but i think i may have "altered" it to the point where it makes the belts squeal bad for a few minutes after starting.

Stewart,

If I can offer some suggestions:

1. Don't start a "suggestions" thread on a procedure that you haven't finished at least once...and hopefully much more than just once.

2. Swapping engines is not that difficult. With any procedure, there is going to be some gotcha's that need to be worked out. I've swapped maybe 30 or so engines in my time and am still learning, every ones different, but theres always a solution.

3. Don't be snappy with other posters like you own this thread or something. We're all pulling for you, some prefer to joke around about it. In the whole scheme of things, this isn't really that serious...open heart surgery is serious, swapping engines is not.

I wish you luck in getting you project done. Nothing personal, just some helpful suggestions.

Corey

I would like to add to #4):



B) Proceedures:
I would like to ask all how they get their water pump pulley off to switch it from engine to engine? I used a rubber strap wrench to un do the pulley bolts but i think i may have "altered" it to the point where it makes the belts squeal bad for a few minutes after starting.

Ok .... this thread has been worth a laugh or two but....... I'm finding it hard to listen to someone telling me how to R&R a motor when they don't have enough background knowledge to know to loosen the waterpump pulley bolts before removing the belts in the first place... Don't give up Griffen your learning but Don't quit your day job to write that repair manual yet !! :thumbsup:

At least you had an engine hoist, I had a buddy one time "pull" a motor by jacking the car way up, taking the transmission off, taking the heads off, and sliding the short block down between the front cross member and firewall. Then he rented a hoist to put it back in with later. I am not sure why he did that, but it sure was funny.

While it was out, he replaced all of the bearings and rings without doing any machining. Man was that funny, it ran way worse than before. I am having a hard time wiping the smile off my face thinking about it.

1. Don't start a "suggestions" thread on a procedure that you haven't finished at least once...and hopefully much more than just once.


1) Agree. But i was writing this from suggestive/observational point of view from a beginner; A lot of times novices see things from angles that vets take for granted.


don't have enough background knowledge to know to loosen the waterpump pulley bolts before removing the belts in the first place...

2) Ok, thank you for the advice Mr. Yunick, but how do you remove a pulley from the pump if the engine is already out of the car---i was attempting to switch two different pulleys from two different engines due to differences in the pulleys.

It's not all that bad. On my 2nd time ever pulling my engine, I did it completely by myself. Took less than 2 hours to strip it down to the longblock, maybe another hour to unhook the transmission and pull the engine. It was pretty much mess-free except for the coolant, which gets everywhere no matter what you do. The only thing I got assistance from another person for, was to help position the engine when I lowered it back into the car after the rebuild. I'd bet some of the more experienced guys here could swap an engine single handedly in one afternoon.

I think swapping or pulling engines in a chevelle is about as simple as it gets as far as that task goes. Doing it on a modern car with about 10X as much wiring and crap and alot less room, now that's another story :)

ya know stewart, its good that you give your 1st/2nd swap experience...... some guys do this so often that they forget what it really is like for the guy just getting into the sport / hobby...... many mistakes you made, they made. many mistakes you won't make the 2nd time around, they still make once in awhile (memories suck when you don't have one :clonk: )....... plus, its always good to know that someone else makes the same mistakes and that I'm not, uhmm, i mean, you... ahhh, you're not the only bonehead that still does stuff like that.

about the engine cradle that you rolled your motor around on...... you can use a shopping cart with the basket cut off, leave the curved upright supports (for the basket) on it, set your motor oil pan to the "front" of the cart base and it'll work fine...... not that I know this first hand or anything, i uhmmmmm, i have a friend that has done this.... yeeeeah, thats it a frieeeend

On the pulley if you have a friend over just have him grab the pulley with something non slip like dishwashing gloves, and you loosen the bolts, they usually arent that tight. Good luck with the swap. I still remember my first pull. I borrowed a engine stand, and being a novice and a first timer I didnt have bolts to bolt the motor to the stand. I go the the local hardware store and buy 4 of the unrated zinc bolts! Luckily I had the hoist hooked up when I let the motor down slowly and all four bolts snap in two. That could have hurt! Or the time I bought a cheap mystery shifter and started the car in reverse while standing with one foot out of the car and the other on the sill plate. Jim

First time I ever pulled an engine was with a friend with some experience.

Yes I agree on the trans coming out with engine. We didn't do that. Yes it's a pain to get the trans and engine to mate back up together. Then trying to get the motor mounts to line up was a chore too. Then there was a real issue with getting the headers in.....

But in the end it was all worth it.....well sorta....except we discovered after dropping in the newly fresh engine we had just put together it wasn't getting any oil to the rockers!

So back out it had to come....back apart it had to come....back to the machine shop it went, who failed to clean a big ol' ball of blue silicone out of the main oil gallery....then back to the garage it went....back thru the same old grind of putting it back in the car, after reassembling the engine....trust me I was so not ready to even do this again.

But I stuck to my guns and now the car can be driven. I learned quite a few things about all this.

Oh, the drama... :rolleyes:

Funny stuff, making a BIG deal out of a simple job.

But then I can remember my first engine transplant 50 some odd years ago, in the back yard, chain hoist hanging from a tree limb, putting a bigger 6 cylinder Chrysler motor in an old plymouth.

I had very limited tools, loosing them in the grass, doing everything wrong, taking three days to do a 4 hour job etc.
But it did run good after all the bolts were found and most of them put back in the right place.

Looking back now I guess it really was kinda humorous.

Actually, the engine swaps itself did not all nessesarily go that bad for me. Especially the second time.

It's the fact that i had to do it all over that was the sad part.

The fact that an $11.48 trans modulator and 5 mins of work could have prevented all that work.

Are you familar with the term "Schmuck?"

On the other hand, the simpletons i bought the truck from ran out an bought a new Silverado(40K!) because they didn't want to screw with this one anymore.

Who is the bigger Schmuck?

One of the good things about this site is that there are guys with all experience levels who participate in the forum section, from professionals with tons of know how down to hacks like me. I built my first car (a really cool '65 Chevelle SS 327) when I was in high school back in the '70's. My next car project is the one I'm working on now (another '65 Chevelle). I'm grateful for the advice of the guys who participate. I'm also grateful for the guys like Stew who ask the basic questions and draw out all of the good advice.