I purchased a 66 chevelle on ebay over the weekend and went to pick it up only to find that the frame is almost gone and there is very little useable sheetmetal on the car. It is a basket case... and the guy won't refund my money. I had to leave it there becase I brought a tow dolly (6 hours away) and it was not save to tow it that way.. the car looks like it could break in half at any moment.

The ad mentioned that there was rust, but the guy took pictures of the rusted areas that were fixable.. not the frame, and some other seriously rusted areas.

If I can get the car home, what can I sell off of it and for what amounts? The glass is all intact, the grill is there but a little bent, most of the chrome is there, I'm really not sure what parts are hard to find or may be useful.

Any advice would be appreciated

Thanks,
Chris

That's why I will never buy a car sight unseen!

How did you pay him? If by paypal, you can register a complaint and maybe get some action. I had money returned on an item that was incomplete, and they tied up the guys paypal account until I was satisfied and retracted the complaint. Good luck.
John

Yea, I learned the hard way never to buy a car sight unseen. I did that with the '72. Luckily it wasn't all that bad. Well, nothing that can't be taken care of with a replacement panel..

Did you give him a deposit or the entire sum? If you just gave him a small deposit, you may consider this a "lesson learned" type deal. But if you gave him the whole sum, I am not sure what to do. You could just tow it home (on a full length trailer) and part it out to recoup some of the loss.

Would you happen to have a link to the eBay page?

-Todd

Sorry to hear that man. That is very unfortunate!!!! I wish I could offer some help, but I can't.

How about you just tell him flat out you want your money back. The car is not what he said it was. Get angry. Do not let him rob you.

Had a very similar thing happen to me. I got lucky. My saving grace was that the seller had a spotless reputation -- it was probably his first scam and he had a lot to lose by being exposed.

Get as much info as you can about the seller. Ebay dealings, personal dealings, so on. There's tons of public info on the Internet (government sites, city sites, name searches, etc). Scrutinize everything. The devil is in the details. If you find the seller has a checkered past and a lot of people are after him, move on -- unless you're willing to threaten his life and limb (not recommended) you'll just have get in line behind the rest of his victims and wait your turn. Consider it a painful learning experience.

If the seller's reputation is clean, organize all your documentation and get a lawyer. If the seller is in a different state from you, it becomes interstate fraud and you have much more leverage. The key words here are "reputation" and "leverage". The difficult part will be that the car was presented as already having some rust. This could become an arguement over the degree of rust.

Best of luck.

How much did you pay for the car and what was the ebay auction number? I would like to see his description and if he had a disclaimer in his ad.

Sorry, no advice I can give at this point.

I bought (sight unseen:sad: ) a car from someone here on TC who misrepresented it. I learned my lesson and will pay for it in the long run.

you can tell ebay about it. If the car was not as described and was misleading then it`s fraud. They might be able to help you.

I haven't been a card carrying member for that long, I've been on the sidelines for a year or so, but it's a shame to see the number of guys who come here after the fact with 1 post who got burned. It kind of makes me wonder why they didn't come here before they made the mistake?

Sorry man. Check with the State of sale (attorney general). Some states have a 3 day "right of recission" on auto sales. Otherwise, I would definately file a complaint with Ebay.

Probably too late for advice now.

I feel your pain, but in all honesty its call creative advertising. I mean when you sell a car in your yard do you face the side with damage or the straight side to the road. I will never agree with selling a car to someone sight unseen. I have in the past sold a car to someone in another state but I always give the best description of the car even to the point of making the car worse than what it is. Sorry it happened to you but as they say buyer beware. Good luck!!!

Do you have a friend or family member that is a attorney?? Tell the ass*@^* you are going to file a law suit and do it if you have to. He may see that he is going to spend some money to fight and give up. Good luck. Norman

Was it this one?:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/138176A154984_W0QQitemZ200009165372QQihZ010QQcateg oryZ6164QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Or this one?:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/138176A154984_W0QQitemZ200009165372QQihZ010QQcateg oryZ6164QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1966-66-chevrolet-chevy-chevelle-drag-race-car-SS_W0QQitemZ170008177059QQihZ007QQcategoryZ6164QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1966-66-Chevelle-2-door-Hard-Top-Runs-Drives_W0QQitemZ320007919454QQihZ011QQcategoryZ616 4QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1966-Chevrolet-Chevelle-great-project-27-pictures_W0QQitemZ190006549872QQihZ009QQcategoryZ6 164QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Or did you spend $10,000 or more on this mess?

Do not take delivery of the car, initiate legal action against the seller immediately. There is no reason to take it in the rear just because it is eBay. Just because an eBay ad says that you must buy it if your bid wins does not mean that the seller can skirt any laws on misrepresentation. Pretty simple to ask in court why it was that they only took pictures of the rusty part of the frame, but conveniently leave out info on the sections of the frame that are completely missing. etc.

Thomas

Chris...please take the time to inform the rest of us what car/seller this was.
Might save someone else a lot of grief in the future.

Don't take this laying down...make this guys life so miserable that he'll be BEGGING to give your money back!!

Also curious to see the auction and just how much money you lost in this.

Chris,

you got mail





randy

As sschevellefan said above, this is fraud.

While it is not ethical to give legal advice online, I offer the following narrative to show you that the situation is far from hopeless. I am not a member of the BAR association of your state, but I am able to discuss in a hypothetical way what your options are in law.

Here's what you can do about it:

What you have with the seller is a legally binding contractual agreement, but due to the fraud this gives you a cause of action against him for damages due to misrepresentation, and you do not have to accept the goods (the Chevelle).
This is called Unconsionablity, as in grossly unfair to you. You were not able to deal at "equal arm's length" because to make the agreement you had to trust the information provided to you by the seller.

By misrepresenting the condition of the car to you, he has committed fraud. By accepting your money, he has breached his contractual agreement with you to deliver a useable item.

Due to breach, you have a cause of action for damages. You may sue for:

1) Expectancy theory... had you been able to resell the Chevelle for a profit, he would owe you your money back PLUS your reasonably expected profit.
Expectancy puts you in the position you WOULD HAVE BEEN IN HAD THE CONTRACT BEEN PERFORMED WITHOUT BREACH BY THE SELLER.

2) Restitution theory.... you can get back the money you spent, including expenses. Restitution puts you 'backwards' to where you would have been had there never been a contract.

3) Reliance theory..... if you relied to your detriment on the promises of the seller only to be harmed by him, you can sue under this theory by showing how the seller was unjustly enriched at your expense.

The law is here for you, to protect your interest and to even things up. In a case of clearly fraudulent sale such as this, you are under no obligation to complete the transaction, and since you have done so before inspecting the goods, do not let anyone tell you that it is too late.

The first thing to do is to check the laws of your state for any statute of limitations that would apply to your case, and file a cause of action in court before that statute tolls. You should consult with a local attorney before filing, even if you do it in small claims court or in state court as Pro Per (handling your own case).

If you and the seller live in different states, you do not have to sue the seller in his own state. The standard for a court in your state to have personal jurisdiction over the seller was outlined by the Supreme Court of the United States in a famous case (State of Washington v. International Shoe Corp.). This is the same Supreme Court case that allowed a New York court to excercise personal jurisdiction over Joran VanDersloot in the Aruba matter that is going on now. Simply put, the seller, by advertising online, and knowing that his ad will be read by potential buyers not in his home state, has implicitly provided what the Supreme Court calls Minimum Contact with your state, and if you do in fact live in a state other than his you may sue in your local court, forcing him to defend far from home (very expensive), making it easier for you to pressure him for a settlement or get a default judgement against him.

Once you have a judgement, you should immediately (the same day) file a lien against any and all of his property. It doesn't matter that his house etc, may be worth more than what you've lost.

If you and the seller do in fact live in different states, you would also be able to file a lawsuit in Federal Court under diversity jurisdiction, but there is a $75K minimum value of suit. Had this been a serious COPO or other collector Chevelle, his goose would be cooked in Federal Court.

If his actions to sell fraudulently were intentional, which likely they were, you may also point out that he has committed a crime as is subject to action in criminal court by the district attorney on your behalf.
Of course a witness (him) can always lie in court about intent, but you have a very powerful tool on your side... if you can show substantial certainty... if you throw a ball at the wall it is substantially certain that it will hit it..... this can be used in place of proving his intent. By putting the ad in E-Bay fraudulently, it is substantially certain that he knew the condition of the car.... that proves criminal intent.

All of these things are best used as tools to pressure him into returning your money. They are very powerful tools, used everyday by attorneys and prosecutors to make criminals toe the line.

Eric

I haven't been a card carrying member for that long, I've been on the sidelines for a year or so, but it's a shame to see the number of guys who come here after the fact with 1 post who got burned. It kind of makes me wonder why they didn't come here before they made the mistake?


Here Here!! :thumbsup:

Buyer Beware.. YOU MUST HAVE EYES ON THE CAR!!!

Probably too late for advice now.

Gee wiz Dean, you sure do see the grim side of things. :( cracks me up:D


What I am wondering is.......if you buy a car like this, and it turns out to be not worth building and now you want to sell off the good parts, why would you need to ask somebody else what to sell and what those parts may be worth??????????

Wouldn't you take that as a clue that you might have been in over your head with the purchase, regardless of the vehicle condition?

If you don't know how to bake a cake, then why would you get all of the ingredients out on the kitchen table ???

I haven't been a card carrying member for that long, I've been on the sidelines for a year or so, but it's a shame to see the number of guys who come here after the fact with 1 post who got burned. It kind of makes me wonder why they didn't come here before they made the mistake?
I didn't even know of this site a year ago, but someone from here contacted me and sent me a link to a thread that was discussing a 66 I was bidding on, I read the thread, joined the site and it saved me from buying a fraudulent L78 car, granted at the time I didn't know what an L 78 was...... but I'm much better now:thumbsup:
Seb

Man Eric, whatdja do?

Stay at a Holiday Inn last night?!

Surfin66 - does all those points go out the window if the ad states "As Is"? What about if he did take delivery of the car - does that also negate your options?

In either case I would print out all correspondence between you and the seller - ebay listings disappear and emails get deleted. You can never have too much proof.

The original poster sure seems to have dissappeared.

The original poster sure seems to have dissappeared.

That was his 1st post. Maybe it's the seller trying to find out if he's in deep.

If the car is not what's described on Ebay, then the Ebay Cops can go after this guy and your $$$ will be refunded.

I dont have a lot of confidence in eBay to help with anything. They have not proved themselves.

I dont have a lot of confidence in eBay to help with anything. They have not proved themselves.

I agree.
Like they have some full time fraud department that investigates every issue..because if they did,it would eat into their profits to pay for those salaries.
They just create the illusion they give a * and its thinly veiled.

The original poster sure seems to have dissappeared.

I was also looking for an update

I would think the original poster has become a poser!

I would think the original poster has become a poser!

Quite similar to a body shop I went to!

Quite similar to a body shop I went to!
Iam begining to get the same queezing feeling.:sad:

ebay is trash, i bought a 62 ford galaxie about 2 months ago. i have 3200 in this piece of crap. i have never seen this much rust in one car in my life & i'm 70. iv'e been told sence by some very sharp people. never buy a car that is east of the rocky mountans. the snow turns them to trash....counntryboy

There is some nice cars East of the Rockies, but you gotta look at them before you buy them. That's how you avoid buying crap and find out too late you got gipped by some guy who lied about no rust or no bondo. It's like getting a mail order bride, what you see in the picture is not always what you get LOL

On the other hand you can go look at a car and still get screwed if you are not sure what you are looking for. But then that would be our fault and not the sellers in that case. Been there and done both.

Hope they make it right with you, but it won't be easy.

what ever happened to smith & wesson-they can change things around in a minute, if properly used-i know, i have to watch my anger management, but the last guy that tried to screw me couldnt refund my money fast enough, i think he just wanted me away from his house for some reason-lol
screw me once, my fault-screw me a second time, well there is no second time

There's a 2nd time (if S&W is used)....it's called "the slammer"....and usually Bubba has his way...:D

I've heard it this way. "Screw me once, shame on you, screw me twice, shame on me".

I wish they would bring back public hangings for crimes. That would make people think twice before committing a crime. Forget about throwing people in the slammer, it's a waste of $$$.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Knot-hangmans-noose.jpg/250px-Knot-

And a waste of tax money too.

I wonder if the original poster got out of the deal and is no longer a chevelle owner?? Maybe that's why we havent seen him back....