I’ve got a very puzzling problem that I could use some help with. It’s regarding the starter circuit on our Chevelle. It’s a 1969 Chevelle SS396 with a 396, headers and a four speed trans. The random problem I’m having is the starter will not turn over. It’s like there’s no power to the starter. Turn the key and nothing. This has been going on for about three years without any obvious reasons. I originally had a stock re-built GM high torque starter. I installed a reduction starter from Jegs about six weeks ago giving into the heat sink theory with the stock starter and headers. Last night it happened again. Turn the key and nothing. My next step is to replace the battery cable. I would have changed it along with the starter but it looked in perfect shape, no damage or corrosion. I don’t think the new battery cable is the answer. Step two is to replace the starter switch. Step three is to rewire the entire starter circuit which I rather avoid if possible.

Has anyone had this problem and if so what was the fix? I’d appreciate any input you folks might have.

Thanks,

Bubba

Does your car have the neutral safety safety switch intact? It is integrated into the clutch pedal operation. your problem sounds like the switch may either be loose or improperly aligned. If you don't have the switch, I would start looking at the operation of ignition switch/circuit ....

My car does have a neutral safety switch although it is not connected with the transmission linkage. The car was converted to a Hurst shifter many years ago.

A little more information,
Last night when the car would not start I was able to jump start the car by coasting and letting the clutch out. It took me about twenty-five minutes to get home. I turned the car off once in the garage, then tried starting the car again. The car started without hesitation. This is typical when ever I experience this problem. This might happen twice in a week or it may happen once every couple months. The only consistency is it never seems to happen in cool weather.

Thanks for your response.

Bubba

hi Bubba, i had the same problem with my 70', the starter would just make a "click" sound when you turned the key and it wouldn't happen all the time. I would say that it is the wiring. I ran a 12 gauge wire from the ignition switch on the steering column to the starter, i used a 25 amp fuse in line just to be safe. The car has started every time since. Mine is an auto and i chose just to eliminate the neutral safety switch totally.

Intermittent problems are often hard to catch but you need to have a voltmeter ready to check the voltage at the starter solenoid at the time it's failing instead of guessing and messing around with the wrong thing.

Fenns,
When this problem occurs I don’t even get a “click”. The starter circuit goes completely dead. Could a high resistance problem cause the starter to “click” in come cases and have no reaction in another? I don’t know enough about electronics to answer that. Common sense tells me that a “click” or labored starting problem would be directly related to increased resistance in the circuit. When the starter does nothing at all it leads me to believe there is a break in the circuit.

Dean,
Your right, checking the problem when it happens would be the way to go. Unfortunately it happens so intermittently it’s hard to be ready to check. Take last Saturday evening when it happened. It was 8:45 p.m., no tools in the car, it’s almost dark outside and way too many Ford guys around 

After talking to several people and reading the responses I think my next step is to trace the starting circuit and clean all the connections replacing any wiring that appears to be a problem. It that doesn’t work I’ll rewire the circuit bypassing the neutral safety switch.

Thanks for the responses. It’s been very helpful.

Bubba

Sometimes if the normal stuff don't do it you have to set up tests in advance.

I've piggybacked temporary wires to the terminals on the starter, hung temporary test lights made from an old dash light socket inside the car and even installed a temporary Ford solenoid with a push button before, Oh, and one time I hung a temporary volt meter inside.
Just have to remember to properly fuse everything.

What ever it takes :thumbsup:

It that doesn’t work I’ll rewire the circuit bypassing the neutral safety switch.

I would probably look there first. You may want to look how the switch was bypassed. The starter circuit is one of the highest current drawing items in the car. Poor connections anywhere in the circuit will cause the problems you are describing. Be sure to crimp and solder any new connections you make.

To check the entire starter circuit, electricity flows from the battery to the junction block, to the 4 way splice, to the horn relay, to the bulkhead connector, to IGN switch, to neutral safety switch if automatic or clutch switch if stick shift, to the starter "S" terminal. Check all connections and switches along this path. You may have a bad connection or high resistance in a switch.

im having the very same problem, mines a 69 elky, auto on the floor. after running it around and i turn off the car, it sometimes starts up and sometimes doesnt. when i turn the key i get nothing, not even a click or anything,. so i should check the circiut and starter? i also think it could be the ignition swith is loose in the column.( soory didnt mean to jack the thread)

Thanks for all the responses. I’ve got plenty of good information to get started with. When I figure out what the problem is I’ll post the results.

Thanks again,
Bubba

I had the same sort of intermittant problem; car would occasionally NOT start (not even a click or noticable amp draw)...

Finally, after considering replacing the starter (and actually taking it out), I found the main connector (for the battery cable) was loose in the solenoid)... Tightened that and its was fine for the last few years...

But you said you changed the Starter...

Ironically, I just had my car out yesterday, and the same exact thing happened... Turned the key and NOTHING... Well, not "nothing, as the dash light (GEN) and radio went on, but NO click, etc... Several times with nothing, and contemplating calling AAA... I had waited maybe 2 minutes, and tried again and it fired right up...

Got home, pulling in the garage, and it stalled... Started right up...

Parked it for 4-5 minutes, and it started right up...

Tony,

That’s as close of an explanation as it gets. Just never know when it’s going to happen. I’ve gotten a lot of good responses and emails regarding this problem. When I figure it out, and I will figure it out, I’ll let you know what it is.

Bubba

I would suggest that you take your hand held remote starter button with you from now on and the next time your problem occurs you should be ready to hook the alligator clips to your battery + and the purple wire that goes to the "S" terminal on your starter solenoid.

Dig the purple wire out of the harness near the brake master cylinder and shave a little bit of insulation off it so that you can clamp an alligator clip to it. Remember that wire is dead at all times EXCEPT when you are actually cranking your starter so there is no reason to be concerned about a small amount of bare copper. If you are nervous about it put some electrical tape over the bare area.


If you use the remote starter button method and it works then you have eliminated your starter and solenoid from your problem list.

FWIW I have a remote starter button in my trunk at all times. On those rare occasions when I pitch an alternator belt I have successfully used the button to get the belt back on with a screwdriver 100% of the time.

The only other thing I carry for that event is a pair of leather gloves cause when I pitch a belt its hot under the hood.

I put the belt on the waterpump pulley last. I set the belt into the crank pulley and alternator pulley and put the blade of the screwdriver into the groove of the waterpump pulley with the belt on the shank of the screwdriver. From that point a couple quick bumps of the button and the belt is back where it belongs.


Before you push the button make sure that the wires and your hands are in a safe place. Likewise before you push that button be absolutely sure that your gear selector is in park or neutral and the parking brake set.

Charbilly,

I was talking to a friend of mine last night who is a mechanic and he was telling me the same thing. He suggested connecting a wire to the S terminal and to the positive battery terminal with a momentary switch in between. He also suggested, as Dean has, installing a temporary test light on the “start circuit”. This test light should light each time the key is turned to the start position. If the problem occurs again and the light doesn’t come on then I’d know the power is not getting through the ignition switch. If the light does come on I’d know the ignition switch is good. With ether condition if the car cranks using the momentary switch I’d know the starter / solenoid is good. If it doesn’t start with the momentary switch it has to be the starter / solenoid. This seems like an easy way to isolate the problem to the switch, the circuit between the switch and starter or the starter / solenoid itself.

Looks like the weather in the Washington / Baltimore area is going to be a little cooler this weekend so I might muster up enough energy to work on the old heap tomorrow.

Thanks for all the info and I’ll post my results.

Bubba

We'll usually unite to cobble up some good advice for anybody who asks. Lots of diverse experience on this site. :)

I'm having the same problem with my '70. It typically happens when the engine is really hot, but also happens at other times, too. I think something in the starter is sticking because I can usually get it to fire by lightly tapping on the starter with a stick I keep in the car. I'm going to replace it and make sure all of the connections are tight.

If you can get your starter to work by tapping on it I think you need a new starter or at least new brushes. That'd be a great time to rebush the starter too.

ahhh been there done that a few times
my problems were,,,,,,,,,mostly the connection at the firewall and in one case a bad wire
same thing would happen to me ,no set time or heat and just would'nt start
then one time had nothing better to do but wait i started playing with connections while i had someone else hit the key,,then i found it
so now i make sure all connections are clean before installing anything
just keep in mind lots of these conections are 30+ years old then we take them apart to make things purdy then plug everything back together cause it worked before,,,or atleast i did
good luck
Steve

Over the weekend I replaced the 12 gauge wire from the firewall to the solenoid. The connection at the fire wall was questionable but I’m not convinced it would cause a problem. I also installed a 12 gauge wire from the solenoid to the battery with a momentary switch. If I encounter the starting problem again I’ll have the momentary switch as a backup.

Now I sit and wait............