The way ALL musclcars have been appreciating, which is resulting in the raising of restoration parts prices, do you think it's feasable that eventually the middle class will be driven out of the musclecar hobby entirely? Or do you think the bubble will burst? Are these $35K+ cars for sale really moving in the private sector? Personally, I couldn't see spending that much on an older car that really can't be driven everyday. I love these cars and the hobby, but that kind of money could sure go a long way towards something else.

There sure as heck doesn't seem to be an easy way in from scratch if you're supporting a family on a "median" income, with prices the way they are headed. Yeah, there are rollers that you can build up over time, but not without sinking a pretty good chunk of change to get it decent/safe.

The way prices are getting jacked, I might be able so sell my lowly Malibu and put my son through college someday.

I think it's kind of sad that we might be losing newer generations of enthusiasts because they can't afford to get in the old 60's-70's iron.

I just wanted to open up a discussion (again). Thoughts?

I was lucky to stumble on my car when I did 2 yrs ago. I know I could not even come close to buying an SS chevelle or any other Musclecar for that matter.

I was just thinking about this very thing. I fall in the ''medium" income braket with both of our incomes. We have a new baby six weeks old and do fairly well. I'm selling my 2 door tahoe this month (just bought a four door family car) and the wife says, "spend the money from the tahoe anyway you want" I started to look for a '68 or '69 malibu, something I can drive and work on in the six to seven thousand dollar range. Might have to think about something else, rusted out piles of junk are selling for alot these days. Glad I got my '66 years ago, otherwise I would never be able to enjoy this hobby. It will turn into a game for the rich like everyhting else.

it's a good possability, but you also have to remember, many of these cars built in the 60's were built for a small % of the population that owned 1 maybe 2 cars, with population growing, and many people owning several of these cars, plus the attrition racing took, and the amount of these cars sent overseas, they just aren't getting any easier to find. heck, there are companies out here dedicated to finding classic cars for rock-stars and "industry people".

i still see decent deals, but the day of the $5k hotrod is fast dissapearing ( i saw an article yesterday where they touted being able to build engines for less than $5,500). think about it, everytime i pick up a mag, there are articles in there about the guy who owns a small fortune in cars. i myself own an elky and a cutlass, and i've seen the sig's of a lot of these guys on this site that own multiple cars, so the pool keeps shrinking. i don't think the bottom will drop, but like socal realestate, it will level for a while. until the next batch of rap stars and athletes comes up, then it will be even more ridiculas, than it is now. marginal cars are heading up quickly, and i see good clones go for real $. my advise is to bite the bullet, buy a decent car, and never let it go, cars are becoming family heirlooms. you've gone from one owner to one family owned.

the reason most of us that got into it early on, was it was fairly cheap entertainment, but like anything else, it's blown up, and becoming out of reach for us regular guys. why do you think the rat rod thing has taken off? don't care what it looks like, just get it on the street, and fix it while you drive it. by the way, early vans are coming back, all of a sudden, early vans and the cab overs (think little red wagon), are starting to take off around here.

Dunno, there's starter cars still out there. I'm not looking but 5 minutes brought these up in my area.

$2,400, 1967 CHEVROLET CHEVELLE 4 dr hard top, fact 327 V8 eng, auto, air, all orig, black plate car, good cond, pp, $2,400

$2,800, 1972 CHEVROLET CHEVELLE 424 eng, high persure, great project, pp, $2,800

$2,100, 1972 Chevrolet CHEVELLE 72 CHEVELLE PROJECT CAR, HAVE INSTALLED MANY NEW PARTS, FRONT END COMPLETELY REBUILT WITH DISK BRAKES, AND HAVE EXTRA PARTS FOR CAR, COMPLETE CAR FOR SALESERIUS CALLERS ONLY!!!

I had this exact conversation with Don Lightfoot at the CanAm show a week and a half ago. With the rising prices, they are forcing out guys such us " medium " income earners, but also the younger folks whom we're trying to encourage and expose to these cars. How may 20 year olds can afford to pay some of the asking prices out there for a driver, and then be able to afford to even do anything to it?

I hope the bubble does burst, and soon. I really don't care about what my car will be worth once it's done; I'm not looking to sell.

It's a bubble. Just like with vintage electric guitars in the 80s, prices are being driven by investors looking to make a buck. Once the prices start to top out, and they will, people in it solely for the money will sell out and flood the market with really nice cars. And while prices will probably never be what they were 15 years ago, you will be able to pick up something nice for a more reasonable price. Prime and rare examples like Yenkos and COPOs and such will always sell for more, but the days of rusted out Malibus selling for $8,000 are numbered.

Its the "babyboomers" generation that are causing alot of the skyrocketing prices. They are the ones who are near retirement age, they have savings to dip into to purchase these cars they dreamed about when they were in their teens and twenties.

I believe the pinnacle has already been reached, it does not seem that anyone is buying anything right now. Have you noticed, dare I say it, Ebay recently? There are virtually NO rare hard to find not reproduced parts out there. And items that were selling in the 800-1k range not that long ago are now only bringing 3-500. I really do believe the cost of fuel is a real dampener on this hobby. We all know most of us don't drive the cars enough to be affected by the cost of gas, but it is a real problem for those looking to spend big bucks on a car, that just have enough means to afford said car. I personally haven't noticed the prices of the cars falling yet, just that the cars that were selling before at a certain figure are for sale for a VERY long time now. JN

I had this exact conversation with Don Lightfoot at the CanAm show a week and a half ago. With the rising prices, they are forcing out guys such us " medium " income earners, but also the younger folks whom we're trying to encourage and expose to these cars. How may 20 year olds can afford to pay some of the asking prices out there for a driver, and then be able to afford to even do anything to it?

I hope the bubble does burst, and soon. I really don't care about what my car will be worth once it's done; I'm not looking to sell.

I hope your right about the bubble bursting. I just want to cruise mine around and not worrry about it getting stolen. Sucks having to keep it in plain site all the time.

I was just thinking about this very thing. I fall in the ''medium" income braket with both of our incomes. We have a new baby six weeks old and do fairly well. I'm selling my 2 door tahoe this month (just bought a four door family car) and the wife says, "spend the money from the tahoe anyway you want" I started to look for a '68 or '69 malibu, something I can drive and work on in the six to seven thousand dollar range. Might have to think about something else, rusted out piles of junk are selling for alot these days. Glad I got my '66 years ago, otherwise I would never be able to enjoy this hobby. It will turn into a game for the rich like everyhting else.

There was a real nice looking Black 69 Malibu HT on the seattle craigslist a week or so ago... Black w/ white interior, I think the ad said #'s match 307 car. Was only asking $9500 for it... seemed like a killer deal. I just went back and looked and its gone- but you should definitely keep an eye on that site. Some good deals come up if you can jump on them quick enough.

I hope your right about the bubble bursting. I just want to cruise mine around and not worrry about it getting stolen. Sucks having to keep it in plain site all the time.You are correct. However, you wouldn't leave your watch or wallet laying around in public either.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately because I'd like to have another project car. For whatever reason, Chevelles are really hot right now, but there are less popular cars available that would make nice projects. Novas are not as high as Chevelles, 67-69 full size Chevys are not as high, and then there's alway Brand X or Brand Y...something like a Maverick, Duster, Dart, etc. Trucks aren't that high either. I have a 64 C10 I bought 10 years ago, and I still see plenty of 64-66 C10s for sale cheap.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately because I'd like to have another project car. For whatever reason, Chevelles are really hot right now, but there are less popular cars available that would make nice projects. Novas are not as high as Chevelles, 67-69 full size Chevys are not as high, and then there's alway Brand X or Brand Y...something like a Maverick, Duster, Dart, etc. Trucks aren't that high either. I have a 64 C10 I bought 10 years ago, and I still see plenty of 64-66 C10s for sale cheap.

BOP cars are still good deals, as long as you don't have your heart set on a true 442 or GTO.
Nice 69-72 Cutlass's are all over the place, even 455 powered cars for well under $10k... I have seen real nice Rocket 350 powered rigs for around $6k.

Lemans's & Skylarks are almost a dime a dozen. I see 68-72's all the time for under $5k- some in really nice shape.

If you can live without that bowtie & SS emblem, you can enjoy some cool cars.

there is a maverick over by my house for sale, i think $1,500, and you could make a lot of your $ back on selling the way over sized tires and rims off it. i think those things came with 13's, and this thing has 15's with really high side walls. rides just like they did in the 70's (remember shackles?)

I hope your right about the bubble bursting. I just want to cruise mine around and not worrry about it getting stolen. Sucks having to keep it in plain site all the time.
I worry about the same thing. I usually get all nerved up when a strange car stops in front of my house. I have a padlock on my garage door even with an electric opener since if someone gets inside, they only need to push a button to open the door. NOW they'll need a sawsall to hack the door!.......damn now I gotta hide my sawsall.:angry:

Harley, who are these companies finding cars for rock stars, if you would please.

Rob

Harley, who are these companies finding cars for rock stars, if you would please.

Rob
Is Harley someone that I should know about??

Harley, who are these companies finding cars for rock stars, if you would please.

Rob

i'm sorry i don't know any names yet, but i've heard and read about them, and i think there is one on t.v. your not likely to see prince, or faith hill, down in the hood, so there are now "find agencies", that do the work, find a car, get it to a shop, have it done up the way they want, not much different than a broker when you think about it. there are some enterprising people out there. we have a guy by me that has a dojo, but his spin is, he sends a bus around to the schools, and picks kids up, so instead of after school programs (the y, or boys club) your kid is picked up after school, and spends the time learning karate....

There was a real nice looking Black 69 Malibu HT on the seattle craigslist a week or so ago... Black w/ white interior, I think the ad said #'s match 307 car. Was only asking $9500 for it... seemed like a killer deal. I just went back and looked and its gone- but you should definitely keep an eye on that site. Some good deals come up if you can jump on them quick enough.
There's the problem. When people start to think that $9500 is a killer deal for a 307 Malibu. I got what I considered a good deal. $9000 69SS non# matching 454, Factory 4 speed car.

Well it seems that El Caminos are still very affordable.

A couple months ago a bought a 1972 Z02 El Camino, L48 350 4-bbl, power steering, power disk brakes, TH-350, 12-bolt, air conditioning (that still works), new interior, original build sheet, 177,000 actual miles and absolutely untouched under the hood but still runs and drives beautifully (easily passed emissions after I rebuilt the carburetor and distributor). Dry-climate Colorado/Texas car. Needs paint & body, but for now I'll have fun doing the chores with it.

$3,200.

PS: I've only seen TWO Z02 El Caminos EVER.
In case you are wondering, the Z02 option is for "3-tone" paint with the extended stainless trim along the upper body sides. (Two-tone 1972 El Caminos and El Caminos with the extended vinyl tops also had this trim, but only the Z02 cars are three-tone).

If I dare say it...

Ford Mustangs went through a similar "peak" in the late '80s. You couldn't buy a clapped out/no floors/springs through the trunk/rust-bucket/parts car for under $2K (in 1988 dollars :eek: ). They were the rage then, and everyone wanted one.

Same thing's happening to Chevelles. As mentioned the baby boomers are hitting mid-life crisis, have the financial means, and will PAY for their dreams - regardless of "real" (or market-implied) value.... If it's a Chevelle, it costs $5K to start, period. That's what the market will bring, and what "Joe Dumb Guy" will hold out for... regardless of what the car is... it's a Chevelle and they are hot now, and there will be somebody that will pay this price.

You can buy a 25 year old Rolls Royce sedan (originally $75,000+) for 12 grand now! Why? .... the pinnacle of automotive status reduced to econo-box prices....Nobody wants a Rolls, they're passe'.... give me the kick-*ss muscle car that "Jim who got all the hot girls in High School" had, and I'll pay any price....

I'll apologize now for the bulk of us who frequent here - we're enthusiast's, and lovers/preservationists of the marque - but the MARKET is driven by the guys we made fun of in High School!

In addition to my Chevelle I also have a 1969 Mustang Fastback. 250 CID , C4 , PS, NP drum brakes. complete with substantial rust. Its parked side by side with my Chevelle 4Dr. Not one soul has ever mentioned the Chevelle however the month doesn't go by that some stranger doesn't knock on my door offering to buy the Mustang. Its like the Chevelle doesn't even exist next to that Mustang.

I am thinking that I should put that wretched wreck of a mustang on ebay and let the bidding wars begin. Unfortunately I married that car along with my wife so the decision isn't mine.

My wife hangs on to the damn thing cause her oldest daughter has been assured by her father that he'll restore it for her ( He's quite wealthy). Ya sure! So there it sits quietly rusting away.

Imagine a car that was built with a 6 cylinder engine , power steering , automatic and standard drum brakes. Its a classic example of the old car salesman's humorous saying " There's an ass for every seat." No matter what they build the car makers always find a buyer.

Sure am glad I found my car for $2500 complete with a fresh paint job. That was only 2 years ago.

Seems like all of the other models (Nova, trucks, Mavericks, etc.) are going up too due to the rising sale of muscle cars....it has an effect on everything....

Won't be much longer when you won't be able to buy a decent Pinto for under $10k. :clonk:

Guy I work with keeps after me to sell my chevelle, he knows I really don't have too much into it for what its got. So he thinks I'll give it away if I decide to sell. Unfortunately Im really starting to like the car, and the best part my wife really likes the car, I didn't build it to sell I just fell into it for real cheap and found a lot of parts cheap. Having too much fun with it. also have a 71 camaro since '78 since its my first car I cant sell that one either. Just picked up a 68 el camino custom a couple of months ago for 1500 bucks even has factory air! 327, disc brakes, So the deals are out there, you just have to have the cash in hand when the deals are presented to you. It also helps if you have a place to park it too. Jim

Exactly the reason the next two cars after I finish the 59 and 64 are going to be a Sunbeam Alpine I am buying from my sister (has been stored indoors for 15 years but was in excellent running shape with no rust when parked) then I'd like to build a "rat rod" 34 or there abouts roadster or maybe a Cobra kit. Since you have to replace most of the parts anyway, why start with a 10K shell? Buy everything new. Don't have to take it apart, no cleaning or rust to deal with, it can't cost much more and most of them are well enough thought out that they go together pretty easily.

This is the one reason I acquired the cars I have over 5 years ago. I bought my 70 in 1998 for $200, my 69 in 1999 for $500, my 69 Charger cost a little more in 2001 at $3000, the 69 Cutlass for $1000 (running car with a 455) in 2000, and most recently, my 70 convertible for $500 (right place at the right time). My cousin got his Cuda for $700, fully documented & highly optioned about 5 years ago. Deals are still out there, youjust have to find them. I remember when I first got into this when I was 18 back in 1998, you could get a decent looking 70 SS or 69 SS for less than $15,000.....not anymore. Too many people that have more money than we do got caught up in "the fad" of having a muscle car. What's even funnier is the fact that so many people associate a Chevelle or a Charger with muscle car when the majority of Chevelles & Chargers produced were nothing more than mid sized family cars, nothing more with obviously the exception of the REAL SS and R/T cars for the Charger that are still around. I'll use 1970 Chevelle as an example. There were 487,969 units of the 130000 series produced that year (this includes 4 doors, wagons, and Elkys). Of that, 62,372 were optioned as an SS. That is less than 13% of total production, yet the other 87 percent is commanding the prices we are seeing today.

Funny thing when I went to high school, chevelles were considered "boats" anyone that wanted to build something fast built a camaro or a nova. I wished I would have kept a couple of "boats" I scrapped back in the day! Jim

I Got Tiered Of Reading................if You Have A Chevelle Good For You................chevelle Thats Always Better Than A Maliboooooooooooo...............quit Your Bitch-n- , And Be Happy You Have One..............it Only Makes It Worth More.............to Build One Sucks...............if It's All About The $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Than Maybe You Should Pay More Attintion To Your Family..........i Make $28,000 A Year................it's Always Expenssive, And I Still Love My Chevelle..................

I remember when I first got into this when I was 18 back in 1998, you could get a decent looking 70 SS or 69 SS for less than $15,000.....not anymore. Too many people that have more money than we do got caught up in "the fad" of having a muscle car.

Tom, forgive me, but I am going to use what you said here to explain something that is not quite true. I'm not picking on you personally, so don't get upset. You've said the same thing here that I see many people saying today.

I don't think that the price increases we have seen for these desirable muscle cars has gone up so much because there are rich people out there driving the prices up. This is just not the case and I'll explain why.

What's a nice paint job today? $5,000-$15,000+ depending on how much body work has to be done. This is up quite a bit from 10 years ago. I remember around 10 years ago, a nice paint job was around $1500-$2500. You can blame the price increase on many things and I do believe it is a culmination of several things that has driven the price of a nice paint job up to where it is today. Materials have gone up. Labor has gone up. City/State regulations. Workers compensation insurance, etc etc.

The cost of parts for these cars has gone up.
The cost of services for these cars has gone up. Back in 1990, you could build a real nice 396 for around $2000, today it's more like $3500.
Everything has gone up.

yes, some of the very rare and desirable cars will bring ludicrous money today. But your average street driver muscle car has probably only doubled in the last 10 years. What you used to be able to buy for $10K is probably around $20-25K now. Show cars valued at $25-30K are now $50-60K.

It takes a lot more money to build a nice car these days. It's because the cost of everything has gone up. It takes about $60K to restore a 69 SS Chevelle today. (maybe even $100K, depending on how much you can do yourself and what parts you use).
The difference in value between a 69 Chevelle SS396 and a 70 Mercury Comet is quite a bit. I don't think you'd make the statement you did if you were working on a 70 Mercury Comet.
We're playing with cars that are very desirable. If you want to say something is driving the value of these cars up, I'd say that is driving the value up more than anything else. Not people with lots of money.

Ok I'm sure you guys wont like my opinion but here ya go. Have you people priced new cars lately? People are paying 30k for a Honda without blinking an eye. For 30 grand I can buy one heck of a nice Chevelle and I still consider this a hell of a deal. My full size Chevy truck cost me 32 grand and I had to dump another 15 grand in accessories into it before I was happy. No I'm not rich, I'm 22 years old and pay bills like everyone else. I know a lot of people my age who also own muscle cars. I have about 35,000 wrapped up in my 67, ive owned the car almost 8 years now and dump money into it as I can. These cars are a luxury not a necessity, if your on a budget as said in other posts resort to building a 4 door or another model that's cheaper. that's my .02

Its the "babyboomers" generation that are causing alot of the skyrocketing prices. They are the ones who are near retirement age, they have savings to dip into to purchase these cars they dreamed about when they were in their teens and twenties.

I will agree with you in part, yes Iam a baby boomer.I was lucky to own a 66 Chevelle in high school. Then came the service, and then a 69 Chevelle when I got married in 1971. Then came the kids and all the bills and the 69 left me. Now move forward approx 36yrs. The kids are grown and left the nest. Iam still working and paying the bills. All this time I never forgot my best years and my Chevelles. I told the wife I would find another one, and did. I shopped around for approx 2yrs before buying. Yes I have seen the guys at the sales, that pay the high prices. Most are in their 50s,or 60s. Yes it has hurt the middle and younger guys. I couldnt afford to buy one when the kids were young. Everytime I see a young guy with kids and a Chevelle, I think he is very lucky, and Iam glad for him! I know he has worked his butt off just to get to that point. Something I was unable to do in my 20s and 30s. I hope the younger man can continue to find and own these cars. Are the prices going to come down any time soon, I don't think so.

Wow Tom, I'm only a few years older than you....good to see another "youngin" on here. ;)


I don't think that the price increases we have seen for these desirable muscle cars has gone up so much because there are rich people out there driving the prices up. This is just not the case and I'll explain why.

What's a nice paint job today? $5,000-$15,000+ depending on how much body work has to be done. This is up quite a bit from 10 years ago. I remember around 10 years ago, a nice paint job was around $1500-$2500. You can blame the price increase on many things and I do believe it is a culmination of several things that has driven the price of a nice paint job up to where it is today. Materials have gone up. Labor has gone up. City/State regulations. Workers compensation insurance, etc etc.

The cost of parts for these cars has gone up.


Yes but why is that? It couldn't be because now that everyone wants a piece of the pie that it's caused more to want to restore classic cars back to their former glory?

Funny thing when I went to high school, chevelles were considered "boats" anyone that wanted to build something fast built a camaro or a nova. I wished I would have kept a couple of "boats" I scrapped back in the day! Jim

Man that is so true. A Chevelle wasn't even a challenge for a Camaro with a built small block, by the time that boat got out of the harbor the Camaro was gone.

Guys ... today's prices on average cars aren't outrageous.

You're going to pay $10k for a nice drivable Malibu. I don't think that's bad, like was said every car on the dealer lot cost $30k+.

Quit, quit, quit shopping the internet for deals! That's why everybody thinks they can't touch a car for less than $20k. Go to the local shops, resto parts houses, swap meets. They've got boards full of cars for sale ... I couldn't count how many nice cars I could find for less than $10k today.

Case in point, I know of a '68 Firebird Conv, 454BBC/TH400 right now for $5500. It's a nice car, not Z28 or TransAm heritage ... but what are you going to do with that, wear a plaque around your neck?

I know a '68 Malibu, 327ci/4spd, driving around in finished primer for $8k.

Also, quit thinking your going to find an all original #'s restored BBC car for less than $10k ... it cost $30k just to put it together. Plane and simple, $10k would have been a steal on a restored SS454 15yrs ago! Some people on this board have found cars like that ... but guess what, they were steals back 15yrs ago when they bought them! You don't think they bought them because they were an average deal, on a fair car ... I might make a return 20yrs from now?

Plus, many of us have done basic BBC/4spd/12bolt swaps for under $1000. Again, get off the internet (you're not going to find a deal) ... talk to friends, go to swap meets. Yeah, I still talk to those that are into "I could get this $$ on Ebay" ... but there's still so many, that will take very reasonable offers.

The one's that are getting hurt the worst, are those that can't afford much more and put $1500 into a rusted heap. It's been said over again, and I know how hard it is ... but leave them alone. Unless you really are capable of doing the work yourself (or learning), you'll be paying the bodyshop $10k instead.

Oh well, just my take. I don't see general 2dr Malibu prices outrageous, if you get yourself off the danged internet!.
Neal

I don't know where you guys are shopping for new cars but your getting hosed. 30k+.....not me.

the Only way to have a cheap muscle car is ............. NOT to add up or keep your recipts !!!! :D :thumbsup:

Guys ... today's prices on average cars aren't outrageous.

You're going to pay $10k for a nice drivable Malibu. I don't think that's bad, like was said every car on the dealer lot cost $30k+.

Oh well, just my take. I don't see general 2dr Malibu prices outrageous, if you get yourself off the danged internet!.
Neal
10K for a car that was origonally 3K IS outrageous. Especially if there were half a million or so built.... If it is a more limited model (SS,Z28,GTO,442) THEN I can see the appreciation, but not on an everyday model.

OMG, there's a losing argument!

Basing it off of appreciation? You think that a car that went for $3k in 1970 should be less than $10k today.

Let's see, and I'm just guessing at round numbers here ... an average house was what, $30k then ... today is somewhere over $100k. Wages are what ~4x what they were in 1970.

I by no means have ambitious investiments, but they sure as heck better clear 300% in 36yrs! Then let's take a new car (whether you think it's worth that much, or not) ... a comparable "class" car to a Malibu is what $25-30k today?

Maybe the true part that you missed in your statement, is that automobiles have always reached a depreciation -> appreciation hump. Usually a little over 20yrs old. Look at a car from 1990, and most will barely clear $1000 ... look at something from 1980 (I don't consider them classics either), but they are starting to see an appreciation in value. Much over desire from our youths, plus the fact that most cars don't make it past 20yrs and these start become (not rare) but few.

Oh well, I'm not currently in the market ... but yeah, I think $10k for a clean desirable 2dr classic car is reasonable. Especially considering it probably has that much in body work ... or, it was extremely well taken care and deserves it!

Neal

What the car originally cost is irrelevant. Also irrelevant is the cost of the parts and labor that went into the restoration. A car is worth what someone is willing to pay. If you put $30K into a car that realistically is worth $15K, the people looking at it are NOT going to give you $30K.

A car is worth what someone is willing to pay.

EXACTLY!!! :beers:

Andy … kinda true, alright mostly true. The words that a something is only worth what someone is willing to pay, well that’s been true since the stone age!

Original cost of a car, does have some relevance to it’s appreciation in today’s market, but in a different manner. The SS car’s always did cost more than a stripped model. Many, many people had to sacrifice checking a BBC or SS option in order to get some more family oriented options (then there was insurance rates). So far, I can’t think of anyone I’ve talked to that regretted checking the BBC option, and many that had to forego the SS option and purchase a SBC car. And, out of those … I’ve never found one person that didn’t have fond memories of owning that car (whether muscle or not). See if you get that same response from a GM car buyer today?

Now there was a time during the 70’s gas crunch, where you couldn’t even sell a BBC car. Many were converted to SB’s, and some just scrapped, other’s sold for pennies. Other than that, in my lifetime an original SS/BBC optioned car has always brought “some” more money than a lower optioned car. Never the ten-fold factor of today though!

I do have to disagree with you that car values do not following restoration cost. Granted, just about every car guy out there has more $$ into his car than he could return (if they wanted to be honest). So you are right, the car that sells for $10k very likely has $15k in receipts. I don’t know how many cars I’ve looked, where the broken record (seller) just keeps repeating how much they have in receipts … sometimes I feel sorry for them, other times I’m far more blunt.

Anyhow … what I was getting to, is that car buyers have realized that sheet metal and drivetrain work cost money. I think the passing of information on the internet have made people more aware of the actual costs. So they know looking at a heap is going to cost them the $15k, or buy it done for $10k. I do definitely have to disagree that knowing the cost of restorations, has not driven car prices up. And, I feel it’s justified. 20yrs ago $3000 would have bought you GM sheetmetal, installed and painted. It’s just not possible today.

Now the ultimate factor is still desirability! If I could find a perfect, original Ford Granada … I probably still couldn’t sell it for more than $2000 transportation car. The same Camaro is going to cost more than that! But I can still find a decent drivable first-gen Camaro’s for $7-8k, and even non-show restorations for $12-15k. Granted, given that these are still luxury-only items (and no longer full time transportation) makes it a pretty expensive hobby. I can relate better than some of you could imagine, my family is still the priority (and this is about 4-5 on the list).

I always have thought the statements that car collecting is just expensive, put up or shut up … is extremely arrogant! I would want nothing else, but for as many of you as possible to put these cars on the road. I live in an extremely depressed area, and have seen maybe 3 classic cars on the road this year! Tried a cruise-in, maybe 10 cars at best and they’re parked (no cruisin’). I think that’s the saddest state of affairs in the hobby these days. If I wanted something to look pretty well, I’d buy my wife another set of boobs … alright, that really shouldn’t be repeated to her (*grins*).

Yes, the hobby can be expensive … and if you follow everything you read in magazines, and internet car sales, none of us would be able to afford one. It doesn’t have to be out of reach for a middle class family though. Forget about the big-block muscle cars selling for $100k, you don’t need to have that into a car to be in the hobby. I’m still on track to finish ~$10k into my ’69 454/4spd/12bolt Malibu, and I’d bet it drives better than that $100k one! Especially when I can drive it on any sunny day I danged well please, not just off the trailer for the 1 concours show event of the year.

Anyhow, back to my original comment … if I was buying, I think a clean 2dr Malibu is worth $10k.
Neal

Yeah Neal that makes sense. I guess if a person thinks about how much it's gonna cost in terms of time and money and they can get one NOW for less money than they would have to put into it, heck who wouldn't buy the finished one? So i suppose as the cost of time and materials goes up, so would the price of a finished car even if that car still costs less than the cost of T&M.

Andy

you guys think cars are crazy? my wife is in to art, recently we went to see some painting by klimt, they were amazing, they had recently been returned to the family, that originally had them commisioned. had the whole nazi's stole them scenario, and had belonged to several collections over the years, and was finally returned to the family. recenty, i read where they had sold one of them for $35 million u.s. dollars.....yes folks, that's 35 MILLION. i saw them, i enjoyed them, bought the wife a book with pictures of the paintings in them....35 million??? well somebody thought so.....

you guys think cars are crazy? my wife is in to art, recently we went to see some painting by klimt, they were amazing, they had recently been returned to the family, that originally had them commisioned. had the whole nazi's stole them scenario, and had belonged to several collections over the years, and was finally returned to the family. recenty, i read where they had sold one of them for $35 million u.s. dollars.....yes folks, that's 35 MILLION. i saw them, i enjoyed them, bought the wife a book with pictures of the paintings in them....35 million??? well somebody thought so.....

Even worse, it sold for $135m. I'm glad I have nothing major planned for my car.. just upkeep and fixing whatever I break/dent/fails.

matt

Even the price of a good Boob job has gone up....almost of out of reach for the middle class... it's very sad :(

I agree that prices on our cars have reached the insanity level. Six figures for a car that originally sold for what $4500-5000? But, as my financial advisor
(the wife) points out, a $25,000 Chevelle compared to $30,000 for a new ricer is still a good deal. And three, four or five years down the road, which one has the best resell value?

I agree that prices on our cars have reached the insanity level. Six figures for a car that originally sold for what $4500-5000? But, as my financial advisor
(the wife) points out, a $25,000 Chevelle compared to $30,000 for a new ricer is still a good deal. And three, four or five years down the road, which one has the best resell value?

Just because a car sells for six figures now, and it originally cost $5000 doesn't make it "insane". Almost everything (not just cars) is that way. What did white man pay for Manhattan ? What was originally paid has no bearing on the current value.

all have made a good point, and a i agree a lot, with whats been said here. i'd also like to point out my shrinking pool theory, just in this thread, we own a minimum of 31 cars collectively, and there isn't anywhere near 31 people in this thread, add this to those articles i've read recently where one guy owned 14 pontiacs, and another had close to 50 chevy's. yes there are some deals left on the marginal cars, and heck, even some premier cars (what ever happened to that guy, who's father found the cuda recently?) the bottom line is, the population isn't shrinking, and with every day, i'm sure several cars are hitting the shredder, and the new guys (including those that can afford several cars) are shrinking the pool even more, add the museum, and collection guys, and the premier cars are becoming more extinct, to the guys who drive them on the street. do i hope the prices drop? heck yeah, i want a premium car, who doesn't? do i see them dropping into my budget, anytime soon? i doubt it...

I agree that prices on our cars have reached the insanity level. Six figures for a car that originally sold for what $4500-5000? But, as my financial advisor
(the wife) points out, a $25,000 Chevelle compared to $30,000 for a new ricer is still a good deal. And three, four or five years down the road, which one has the best resell value?

WE SHOULD ALL HAVE A WIFE LIKE THAT !!:thumbsup:
you lucky son of a gun

Just because a car sells for six figures now, and it originally cost $5000 doesn't make it "insane". Almost everything (not just cars) is that way. What did white man pay for Manhattan ? What was originally paid has no bearing on the current value.

Glad you put the word "Almost" in there Dan

I used to pay $75.00 for a decent watch and the last one I bought cost $5.95 and keeps perfect time believe it or not.

I stumbled onto a wrecking yard about 4 years ago that was like stepping back in time. The guy was getting pressure form the county to clean it up. (meaning get rid of all the cars).
I posted a thread here telling everyone that there were at least 10-15 builder Chevelles. There were by my count, 6 1969 Chevelles. 5 of them were 2 door hdtps. Not one person came forward and seriously inquired.
200 cars were crushed the first time the crusher came through. Bear in mind that my insides were a shambles while all this was happening. I was seeing perfectly good builders getting the big hammer and going to muscle car heaven. I did manage to save about 3 myself. A 65 Chevelle convert $100, a 71 Olds SX $125, and a 69 Chevelle Malibu (L48 4 spd car) 2 door hdtp $125. I had no room for any more. In fact I stored 2 of these at a friends house for a year. Towed them over 60 miles to get them there.
You should have seen the gold rust free 67 Malibu 2 door that my friend got for $150.
Now all of those builder Chevelles are gone. crushed.
Did anyone email me and inquire about these builder cars ? NOPE.
And why not.
Because everyone wants a $50K car for $10K. It's human nature I guess.
But to build one from the ground up. Nobody.

So quit whinning that there aren't any cheap Chevelles out there and that you are being shoved out of the hobby.
Like was said, get off the internet and start pounding the pavement. If you get in the right circles, you'll find your dream car. And then you can add $$ for the parts that you want on it.
If you don't want to build one, then get out your checkbook and cut a nice big fat check for $50K or more!

And btw, I traded that 65 Malibu convert that many of you saw on eBay and laughed at, for a fresh M22. Estimated value= $1500+ and the guy was tickled pink to get the car.

i'd also like to point out my shrinking pool theory, just in this thread, we own a minimum of 31 cars collectively, and there isn't anywhere near 31 people in this thread

..make that 34 cars :)

..make that 34 cars :)

Actually, make it 36 now :)

I would rather put my money into an old classic than a new car anyway. Suppose you blow an engine (stock sbc) It would be cheaper to buy another engine than what it costs for some parts on a newer vehicle. just my opinion.

There are still some out there to be found. I bought my 70 for 500 dollars from the original owner who had parked it in a garage for 7 years after giving up her driver's license. The car was virtually right under my noise for a couple of years and I had no idea it was there. I didn't see the ad myself but my son told me there was a Heavy Chevy for sale in the Sunday paper. There were two Chevelle for sale in the local paper last week, a 69 and a 72. One for 7500 and the other 15k with a fresh 396(402). Then there are the ones that are out there hiding in plain sight. There is a 68 Malibu around town here that belongs to an older couple that would pass for a two or three year old daily driver. I've run into the couple maybe four or five times over the last 5 years. Last week I had to take a trip to upstate NY. I stopped in Athens PA just before I crossed into NY at a little mom/pop station for fuel. Sitting there is a 72 chevelle Malibu, dark green, green interior so I asked the guy about it and he tells me it is in for a tune up. Seems it belongs to some old couple, even older than me, and it is a daily (more likely once a week if the weather is good) driver. Thing was one of the best survivors I've seen in a long time. Every bit as nice as the aforementioned 68. I had a funeral to get to so I didn't spend any time getting details. Several years ago I was telling one of my students about one of my Chevelles and he tells me his grandfather has one. So next class he brings me in a picture of it. Its a black 67 SS big block car that was parked because of gas prices during the oil embargo in the 70s. I couldn't even get the kid's grandfather to talk to me or let me look at the car. It is just like deer hunting, you have to be in the right place at the right time.

Tom, forgive me, but I am going to use what you said here to explain something that is not quite true. I'm not picking on you personally, so don't get upset. You've said the same thing here that I see many people saying today.

I can sort of see your point of view here actually. I guess I don't really take those type of things into consideration personally, well because I do all my own work myself from teardown to building an engine/tranny/rear to welding to doing bodywork and painting and assembly. The reason being, I simply can't afford to have someone else do it for me so I learned how to do all the aspects that I previously could not perform myself. To those that can afford it, more power to ya. Having said that, I have also seen individuals and businesses capitalizing on some of those that are naive when it comes to old cars (taking advantage of them) which is another thing driving prices up. Believe me, I would love to have Chip Foose build a car for me. Could I ever afford that, not in this lifetime unless I won the lottery. There are many other aspects I could get into as well, I just really don't feel like writing a book here.

Glad you put the word "Almost" in there Dan

I used to pay $75.00 for a decent watch and the last one I bought cost $5.95 and keeps perfect time believe it or not.


They must be getting better. The last $5 watch I had started beeping and didn't stop until I hit it repeatedly with a big hammer

If you think Chevelle prices are high, start pricing Cudas, Challengers, Roadrunners, and Chargers.

Wow Mr69 I don't recall you posting that post but I would've jumped on the oppritunity if I had the chance.

I can remember back 15 years ago going to a swap meet at the Marion County fairgrounds in Indianapolis....saw a nice '70 Camaro with a 402 bbc selling for $3900....saw a '74 Nova SS with gold paint and stripes going for $8500...lots of other cars there too but don't remember the prices.

In town I saw a '71 Malibu that the owners were asking $500....pretty sure it still ran but needed a restoration thought it looked as if it were driven daily...this was in '92 or so....didn't have a license yet and didn't have the $500 but would've loved to have owned it then...also saw a '73-'74 Nova for $300 about the same time....darn sure wished I had the cash then....

My dad tried selling his fully restored '68 Camaro SS (true SS car) for $8,000 and a nicely restored '69 Nova for $5000 both at a swap meet.....this was maybe 12-13 years ago...no takers. I seriously doubt you could even come close to buying either one today for that kind of coin.

I would like to ask you guys, especially Andy69, since he's in Tennessee. If anyone comes across a good bodied 66 malibu with or without motor/trans, to please let me know. I would drive out of state as well, but would like to keep it within a days drive. Oh, and I have 2 71 malibu's we can add to the total of cars with people replying to this post. That should put it up to 38 or so. Thanks, Tony

look at the bright side, atleast more chevelles are now being saved. something that would have been sent to the crusher, is now being restored.

Wow Mr69 I don't recall you posting that post but I would've jumped on the oppritunity if I had the chance.

I can remember back 15 years ago going to a swap meet at the Marion County fairgrounds in Indianapolis....saw a nice '70 Camaro with a 402 bbc selling for $3900....saw a '74 Nova SS with gold paint and stripes going for $8500...lots of other cars there too but don't remember the prices.

In town I saw a '71 Malibu that the owners were asking $500....pretty sure it still ran but needed a restoration thought it looked as if it were driven daily...this was in '92 or so....didn't have a license yet and didn't have the $500 but would've loved to have owned it then...also saw a '73-'74 Nova for $300 about the same time....darn sure wished I had the cash then....

My dad tried selling his fully restored '68 Camaro SS (true SS car) for $8,000 and a nicely restored '69 Nova for $5000 both at a swap meet.....this was maybe 12-13 years ago...no takers. I seriously doubt you could even come close to buying either one today for that kind of coin.

I believe it was before you came on board.