A/C compressor questions [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: A/C compressor questions


Junkyard Dawg
Jul 14th, 06, 6:14 AM
1. What is the idea rpm an a/c compressor should see? In other words, lets say I installed some fairly high winding 383 or something that would normally see 2k, 3k and perhaps even 4k....will this cause any damage on the compressor or cause it to disengage and not re-engage until the rpms come down?

2. Why is it when I set the choke on my Regal and have the engine idling at say 1500 and then turn on the a/c that the compressor constantly engages and disengages, yet once the choke is off and the rpms are down to like 700 the compressor will stay engaged most of the time? I even checked the level of refrigerant with a test gauge and it's showing just under 45 lbs?

If it's of any help the system is a converted R-134a.

lsrx101
Jul 14th, 06, 10:16 AM
1. 2-4 K shouldn't be a problem. Sustained operation at or above 4K could be an issue though.

2. You are low on refrigerant. The 45psi reading on the cheap gauge is meaningless. The compressor will cut out at ~28 psi on the low side with the system running. The higher the RPM, the faster it pulls down to the cutoff pressure. To evaluate the AC system you really need a manifold gauge set and the knowledge to interpret the readings. It's much more complicated than just the cheap low side gauge may lead you to believe.

Junkyard Dawg
Jul 15th, 06, 7:31 PM
Thanx. I am looking into buying me a manifold gauge kit like you mentioned....probably a good thing to have in the garage.

Now if I may ask is 45 psi on the low side about the max amount of refrigerant you want in the system?

lsrx101
Jul 15th, 06, 8:22 PM
Offhand I would say 45 is too low. The static reading on that gauge can vary widely depending on outside temp, humidity, and sun/shade. A reading of 45 only tells you that there is "some" pressure in the system. 45 might be ok at 60 degrees but is way too low at 90 degrees. The actual gauge (death kit gauge) readings are also terribly inacurate, +/- 10psi or more. The static low side reading should be "somewhere around" ambient temperature with an accurate gauge..
The ONLY way to know that you have the proper charge is to evacuate the system and charge the proper amount, by weight, into the system.
With the engine running at 1500rpm and the ac on MAX and the windows down, you want to see ~22-30 on the low side and about 2.5 times ambient temp on the high side(175psi@70 degrees, 225psi@90 degrees). This is in general and will vary from system to system. The compressor will cycle more at lower ambient temps and will often not cycle at high ambient temps\humidity.
Do yourself a big favor and throw that gauge away. It's about as useful as the "battery replenishing" pellets that used to be sold by JC Whitney. Strictly a gimmick.
Here's a link to a great "starter kit" with the minimum that you need to service an AC system. http://makeashorterlink.com/?G5EB1196D.
Some parts stores will rent you the gauges and vacuum pump. Either way, both are a must have.
Hope this helps.

Junkyard Dawg
Jul 15th, 06, 10:50 PM
I don't see a price. Looks good though.

I just did buy me an R-134a manifold gauge kit like this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120009083032&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=002 ....hopefully this will be a good start.

lsrx101
Jul 16th, 06, 12:18 AM
Nice set! Good price too.:thumbsup:
The 2 center ports are a good option. You connect your vacuum pump to one (with a shutoff valve in the line) and your refrigerant supply to the other. This way you don't have to swap a hose from one to the other and risk introducing air.
The sight glass lets you see if you have liquid or gas flowing into the system ( always charge as a gas). You open the low side until you just start to see liquid drops, this will be maximum charge rate without chancing liquid getting into the compressor.
The only thing to watch out for on this set is that the hand valve seats may be aluminum. Don't crank the manifold valves shut. Just seat them lightly or you'll damage the seats.

Check out the 1.5 CFM Economy vacuum pump at www.ackits.com. Look for a pump with the same or better ratings (higherCFM, lower microns).
DON'T get one of the air operated (venturi) pumps. There's a lot of them on Ebay. They don't pull a deep enough vacuum, use vast amounts of air, and won't boil moisture out of the system. :(

lsrx101
Jul 16th, 06, 9:50 AM
Oh, something I forgot.
You might want to think about picking up an AC system repair manual if you want to learn the how and why of fixing your AC. ACkits has a good one from Mastercool. I used to have one from, IIRC, Chilton that was pretty good. You can also check out the forum at: http://www.autoacforum.com/
BTW, I'm not connected with Arizona Mobile Air (ACkits). I've just done business with them and highly recommend them. Their online forum is one of the best on the web. It's easy for me to link to their products for examples cause they're in my Bookmarks.
Here's a couple of tips that may help with your Regal (BTW, what year is it?):

1. Since the system is still pressurized somewhat there's probably enough oil in the system (or too much if the old R12 oil is still there). When you go to charge it, don't use refrigerant with oil in it.

2. Since the system is low, there IS a leak. While you have it discharged spend about $10 or less and replace the o-rings in all of the hose connections. These are the most common leak sites so it's cheap insurance.

3. GM compressors tend to leak at the compressor shaft seal. Look for oily dirt around the clutch or an oily stripe on the hood blanket. The seal can be replaced (~$12) and the tools can be loaned from Auto Zone\Checkers\ Pep Boys, etc.

4. Don't use ANY type of sealer. I won't get into a long explanation. Just please trust me, that stuff can be bad news.

5. If your Regal uses a Fan clutch, consider replacing it with a new OEM type. They get weak over the years. Even though it will keep the engine cool, an old clutch will not allow the fan to move enough air over the condenser at low speed or idle. The condenser is the weak spot on converted systems. You need as much air as possible going through it or it won't cool well at low engine speeds.

Ok, I'll stop the information overload. It's just that there's more to fixing your AC than just adding refrigerant if you want it to last for a long time.
Hope this helps.

Junkyard Dawg
Jul 16th, 06, 1:36 PM
I had my Regal converted to R-134a by a local shop that deals with refrigerant conversions.

When they did the conversion they put a green colored dye in the system to detect leaks. (looks kinda like antifreeze) You are right there is a leak. It appears to be mainly at the compressor in 2 different spots. It looks like a bleeder valve on the back of the compressor....that and around the outter part of the compressor seems to leak too.

However it doesn't seem to be leaking all that fast. It took them 3 cans to put freon it it. I added one can when I brought it home to get it to 45 and so far it's been 3 weeks and there's still a charge, just not as cold at first but after awhile it's fairly cold.

My daily driver leaks all the freon out in 2 days.

I did just recently replaced the old fan clutch as I was informed it was bad, and it was.