Hi guys.

I'll try and keep this short and to the point. Any advice from people who have "been there, done that" would be truely appreciated... graemlins/beers.gif

Current Status: I have 1970 Chevelle Malibu that I'm just beginning a body-off-frame rebuild (not OEM restore). I have already disassembled 98% of the car; front clip/end is gone, interior removed, windshield, gas tank, engine, trans exhaust, etc. Basically the body is sitting on the frame w/ the rear end still intact & front on jack stands.

Major Body Work Needed: I want to replace both rear quarters w/ the "full size" Goodmarks. Also replace the trunk floor w/ the Goodmark metal (or patch what I have, if feasible). I also want to mini-tub the rear, which requires deeper rear wheel wells and notching the frame.

Plan A: *was* to pull the body off the frame, get the frame redone (stripped/e-coat), put the body back on the frame, do the body work, paint.. then finish w/ powertrain/suspension/brakes. After reading this board, it seems that Plan A is not the best approach. On to Plan B...

Plan B: is to stop disassembly immediately and do all of the bodywork now, before lifting the body and re-doing the frame. Once the bodywork is done, I'll pull the frame, redo it, drop the body back on, paint, powertrain/suspension/brakes.


Assumptions:
1) I don't own a welder (although have been considering buying a TIG)
2) I have very little welding experience.
3) Although I'm fairly intelligent, mechanically inclined & patient - I have no experience doing body work whatsoever.
4) I have no specialized "body work" tools.
5) All work is being done in a 2 car garage, not a prof shop... and in my freetime.
6) I'm single and live alone. Anything requiring more more than one person to accomplish is going to require delays until I can bribe a few buddies to come over and help.
7) The car is going to be painted a Midnight Blue Metallic.
8) It's going to need a 6-point cage.


Here's the questions/advice I need help with:
1) Given this info, should I attempt the body work myself... or am I fooling myself? I don't want to get 1/2 way into the project & then realize I can't perform the work up to my minimum "end result" expectations. I'm also struggling with the "infrastructure" costs associated with doing it myself (special tools, time, mistakes, beer, etc.) versus just paying the Pros to do it (might be cheaper and better in the long run?) plus just being done with it - no headaches/worries (and then spend my time better, DIYing on what I'm good at).

2) If paying someone to do the bodywork is best (in your opinion), what's a reasonable estimate (labor only here, I know what the parts cost) to replace both full rear quarters and the trunk floor? I have some rough number on the mini-tub which I'll add onto your numbers. I was going to have the pros do the frame notching anyways....

3) What should I look for when "interviewing" local body shops? Anything in particular besides pictures of previous work?

4)I've provided some pics below, but how hard is it to replace the floor pan under the rear seat? The rest of the floors look good (replaced in 1990), but the rear pan could use replacement.

5) If DIY (your opinion), any overall advice? I'm going to read all of MARTINSR's posts and maybe take a local welding/bodywork class. I'm not sure if that's enough though to get the job done...

I'm going to do this regardless as to which approach I take, as I'm going to have small welding projects regardless of the bodywork.

6) Is Plan B the correct approach?

Thanks for any and all help. Pics below.

--Brian

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As far as picking a shop, read my "essay" below.

To answer your question on whether you should do it or have a shop? At this point after reading your post, it comes down to this.....

If you have a LOT of time you can do it yourself or pay someone to spend a LOT of time and you pay them. smile.gif Chances are your car WILL be spending a LONG, LONG time in the "average" restoration shop. So, you could sit back and let them do it for MANY months or years :( or take your time, buy the tools needed (good quality tools so you can sell them if you want to recoup your money) and do it yourself.

I have to make this clear, this would be a HUGE undertaking for you. I mean more time than you can imagine. If you figure out how much time it would take, double that then triple that! You will still be wrong but not nearly as wrong as if you went with your first est. Figure about 500 to 1000 hours to do this project at home by a first timer. If you can "afford" that, then by all means do it. The best part is, you can stop any time you want. Well, not "any" time. You would need to finsh a step. Like you could hang a quarter and then decide to bring it to a shop but you wouldn't want to cut it off and then bring it to a shop.

From the pictures, I have to wonder why you plan on replacing the floors and both quarters. The floors could be "cleaned up" from what I can see. If this car is not a "special" car like a SS big block four speed or conv. I would say that you could properly patch those floors and not replace the whole thing. There is a HUGE difference in time you would need. That goes for the quarters, really think about that total replacment, is it "really" needed?
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Confessions of a body shop owner.

“Anybody know of a good body shop in (enter your city name here)?”, “How do I get my body shop to work on my car?”, “My car is being held for ransom!”, or just simply “Body shop Blues”. I’m sure you have all seen topics similar to these posted. Gentlemen, my name is MARTINSR and I was one of those dirty rotten bastards that would keep your car ten times longer than I promised.

For the guy not doing his own body work or at least not all of it, he is at the mercy of the body shop. It is not a nice position to be in. In fact, it can go down as one of the low points in your life. I have seen horror stories that would make your hair stand on end. A long time customer of mine (he owned about 60 cars and usually had a few in shops around the area at all times) had a car that was held as evidence in a murder. Yep, it had blood splattered on it when one of the shops owners killed the other with a baseball bat!

The following is my generalization of restoration shops that I have owned, seen or worked at. There are exceptions to the rule. Please don’t beat me up if I have rolled your shop into the mix when you are an exception. But, if you do see yourself, I suggest you get down to your neighborhood junior college and take a course or two in business. One of the great myths is that we each think our business is so unique, we can’t learn from a “regular” business class. Well after much instruction and exposure to the business side of things I can tell you, business is BUSINESS. Whether you are running a liqueur store, a cat house, or a body shop, they are all exactly the same. Sales are SALES, period.

So, we can agree a body shop is a business, being a good body man does not make you a good businessman. Restoration shops are usually owned by good body men, not good businessmen. It is very hard to make money doing restoration work, it is very easy to make money doing regular collision work. The business man makes his money doing collision work and tells all the customers with restoration work to go to Joe’s Body shop down the street, he does the restorations. Joe loves doing what he is doing, but seldom makes much money. He is an artist, a true master at his craft. Joe sees things at what they can “become”, not what they “are”. When Joe sees a car he doesn’t see the time it will take to make it the show winner he knows it will be, he only sees it as the show winner. I really don’t believe he means to lie to you when he says it will be done in a month, he is looking at through rose colored glasses, his vision is altered. Like a woman forgets the pain of giving birth, so does Joe when he gazes upon the beautiful car he has carried for nine months (or longer). And when the next rust bucket rolls in, he has forgotten about the hundreds of hours needed, he only sees a luscious rose garden.

Like I said few make a living at restoration or hot rod work. The biggies that you have heard of like Roy Brizio or Boyd Codington all make money with other ventures, not the rod shop. The first time I visited Brizios shop this was very apparent. The rod shop is about 5000 square feet sitting in the middle of a 50,000 square foot building. The rest of the building is Brizios manufacturing business. It is all non auto related by the way. The rod shop is a hobby, I don’t doubt for a second he makes money, but it is a hobby none the less.

So when you go looking for a shop to do your car you have to remember this, you are most likely going to be dealing with an artist. If you think the business end of it is going to go smooth, think again. If you build yourself up and believe everything, you are in for a BIG let down. If you set yourself up for less than that you will be much better off. I suggest getting ready for MUCH, MUCH less and then you will be happy when it only takes five months instead of the ten you got ready for. If he said one month and that is what you are planning, by the time five months rolls around you are ready to kill someone.

These are HUGE generalizations but I have found a few signs that may help you in picking out a shop. If nothing else they will help you understand who you are dealing with.

1. If there is more than one car sitting in the shop covered with dust, this may be a bad sign. If you have been around body shops much you know that dust build up is like the rings in a tree, you can tell by the layers and colors how many YEARS it has been sitting. If there is a car that is being used for storage of misc. boxes and things, bad sign. My brother used to joke that I should bolt a vise on the fender of the car, at least I could get some use out of it! Coyly ask “Cool car, is that yours?” if he says “Naw, it’s a customers”, BAD SIGN. If there are ten stalls in the shop and six have dust covered cars in them, RUN. I shouldn’t have to tell you this one, but if there are guys hanging around with beers in their hands, RUN.


2. How many stalls does he have? I have found that the real restoration/rod shops seem to have only room to have three or four cars at a time. If you only had room to work on three cars, you are going to be damn certain they get out so you can have room for the next. One of the most successful custom shops I have ever seen was a little four stall shop in Pittsburgh California. It is the famous (well at least on the west coast) DeRosa and son Customs. Frank has been around since the fifties making show winning cars. He and his son Frank Jr. do the same today and do it FAST. They run a neat, little and clean shop. If you have seen the 2001 DuPont calendar they did the “Cadster”. It was only in the shop for a few weeks. By the way, it doesn’t have DuPont primers on it like the calendar says, Martin Senour primer was used.

3. Does he look at your car like they do at the McPaint shops, you know, all jobs all colors the same price? If he doesn’t take a good long look at the car taking notes, he has no clue what he is doing. He is looking at the car with those rose colored glasses. Every single panel should be examined and noted for the amount of hours needed. If he just looks over the car without doing this he is surely going to be WAY off. If he is way off on how much he is charging you, what incentive does he have to work on it?


So let’s say you have a shop you would like to bring it to, you really need to case the joint. Turn into a stalker and keep an eye on the shop. You know for months that you are going to need a body shop. Watch the shops for months. Drive by during business hours and see if they are actually open. Many of these guys (remember they are not good businessmen) take their open sign as sort of a guide line. If it says 8:00 to 5:00 it is more like 9:15 to 2:00 then 4:25 to 7:00, they can’t get your car done like that. See if any cars leave. If you go by there and see the same cars sitting there and many little jobs going in and out, BAD SIGN. I have to tell you, those little money making collision jobs are dang hard to turn away. If I had a million hour job sitting there and it was the 28th of the month I am going to set it aside for the $800.00 job I can do in two days to pay the rent.

If they don’t allow you to walk around and check the place out, be wary. Look at the paint dept, does he have a booth? Is there junk and open cans all over? Is there many different brands of paint? This is usually not a good sign, he buys anything he can get his hands on. This is many times the sign of a “junior chemist”, they guy that mixes products and doesn’t follow tech sheets.

If you have decided that this is the shop you want to go to, help the poor guy. You “suggest” to him how you want to go about the money part. This is the ONLY way you should do it believe me. Don’t EVER give him a deposit and leave the car (at least not more than a tiny amount of the estimate, say 5%). This is darn near a guarantee that your car will be sitting for weeks or MONTHS while he uses that money to buy parts for a high profit collision job or simply pay a long standing bill. Which then leaves your car sitting there with no incentive to work on it.

Here is what you need to do. Tell him that you want to do only ONE of the things on your car, at a time. You want to get a price for all of them maybe so you know what it is headed, but do only one at a time. You will pay him for one step at a time. Not because you don’t trust him, but because YOU are bad with money and that YOU don’t want to leave him hanging after the car is done with no money to pick it up.

This way it is more like he is in control and made the decision. Then you negotiate the time it will take for each step. Let’s say you have patch panels to do on the front fenders. You agree that he will have them done at the end of the week, and that they will cost $200.00. He has something to work for, he knows he will get the money and he actually does it. You go see him on Friday see the work done and give him the $200.00. Then you pick another thing to do. Just as if you were doing these things at home, break them down into bite sized pieces so he can swallow them. If you go in there and find that he hasn’t done it or he has done poor work, you can then say “I am sorry to yank your chain, I don’t have any more money, I just lost my job” and take the car, no body owes a thing. If he does not want to do this, you really need to start rethinking your choice of a shop. Either this or variation of this should be fine with him. If it is not, something is wrong.

If he really wanted to make money he would be doing this. The first restoration job I ever did where I really felt I made money was done just this way. It was a little ’58 Bug eye Sprite. I had decided that something had to be done or I would fall into the same trap as before with a car sitting forever. One of the first shops I ever worked at was a full on restoration shop. It broke the rule and was pretty big, with four full time employees. Every car had a time card assigned to it. When you worked on the car, you punched in. Then each month (these were HUGE frame off restorations on 30’s and 40’s vintage Fords) the owner would receive a bill with the times worked. If they couldn’t pay, the car left, period. The guy made money and I finally got smart (after about 12 years in business) and followed his lead. I put a sign on this Bug Eye and would post the hours I spent on it. I told the guy to come by each week. Now, when the guy came in and saw only two hours were spent, he was not very happy. That was a heck of an incentive for me right there I will tell you that! It worked great, I actually got paid for every minute I worked, unlike most restoration projects. And he actually got the car back in close to what I said. It was still late, but not ten times as late as I had done before.

Another thing I highly recommend is to take plenty of photos of the car, really detailed photos. When you drop the car off leave him a copy of them. Letting him know you have a copy. Not threatening like “I am doing this so I can prove you lied to me” more like “I can’t wait to see how different it is and you can have these before shots to show future customers”. Which is true, it is just not the only reason you are doing it. If he is doing a full on restoration for you, I HIGHLY recommend parts like chrome and interior be taken home after he removes them so they don’t get stolen or damaged. You need to have a very close relationship with the shop, if these visits make the guy edgy, you really need to find another shop.

If you have the attitude that you are genuinely interested in how this work is done, not how he will do YOUR car, but just in general. You will find that he will be much more likely to “show off” his talents than if you go in there like an untrusting customer.

Along with these photos you want a VERY detailed work order. Run like the wind if he has no work order. Still run if he has a work order that says “fix dents and rust” as the repairs being done. RUN, I say. You need to have a fully detailed work order, not for legal reasons (wink, wink) but for your own records to show the wife where all the money went. The “wife” is a great way to get things done. You need to come look to see what is done because the wife wants to see. Bring her in there, she has an excuse, she knows nothing right? So you bring her in to see what magic this guy is doing to your car so she can understand why it costs so much. Bring a friend when you drop the car off, be sure he hears everything that is said. Let him or her help you make the decision on leaving it there. Sometimes YOU too can be looking through rose colored glasses. If someone else says they have a bad feeling, LISTEN to them.

There are few things that can compare with returning to a shop to find the place is locked tight and the mail is piling up on the floor where the carrier has dropped it through the slot. I have seen it, it really happens. The good news is it is rare, just take your time and find a shop where you feel comfortable.

WOW. :eek: Many thanks for the response MARTINSR. Very informative.

I had absolutely no clue we were talking that kind of effort to complete the work listed. Prior to posting this, I was thinking more along the lines of 2-3 man weeks (over the course of a month or two) for a professional shop. Seems I was a little off. <cough, cough> :rolleyes: Would you say a 'typical' labor bill for the work layed out here to be five figures (n/inc the paint job)? Wow, that's crazy stuff.


I think I'm leaning towards attempting this myself now. I'm going to sign up for a welding class ASAP @ local community college... and start doing some research/reading. I know you've posted several excellent "mini manuals" online (such as 'basics of the basics') here, but is there any other good references (books, etc.) to get a primer on bodywork how-tos that you'd personally recommend?

Another 'idea' I'm considering is the feasibility of finding a "mentor" that I can rent by the hour to help me at my place (garage) on weeknights or weekends. E.G. someone who is a very good bodywork "artist" that can show me the ropes hands on - until I become confortable with the process to do it myelf - @ a modest hour rate. For example, come in and help me cut out the old and hang a new quarter on one side... and then I'll do the other on my own time. etc. etc.

As to the "is it worth it" factor, I was definitely thinking along the same lines. If I can patch the inside rear floors so that it's functional (no holes, no rust, etc.)... since it's out of sight anyways, that's the way I'd probably go. As to the quarters, my magnet test shows a decent amount of Bondo throughout the lower 1/2 of both the rear quarters... esp behind the tires (no suprise, being in Michigan). So, reality is that I'd prolly patch the rear floor, patch/replace the trunk, and at least replace the lower quarters (if not full quarters).

Thanks again for the info/time.

--Brian

Just to give you an idea, I'm doing a frame-off on my 67. I've been working on it here and there for over a year now and thus far, the car is completely disassembled, the body is off the frame and sitting on a homemade rotisserie, it's been chemically stripped by Redi-Strip, the frame has been blasted and I'm halfway through applying Por-15 to the frame. I have a lot of rust damage to repair (roof, trunk pan,both quarters and some damage in the floor pans). The car probably should have been a parts car, but this is what I always dreamed of since I was a kid - a restification from hell. Your car looks to be in much better condition than mine (especially considering its from Michigan ?!?!?), but still plenty of work.

I only get to work on mine a few hours on the weekends (two kids, wife, job and school). So far, I've spent close to $14,000 and I have a long ways to go. Of that, about $3000 was spent on tools I needed - mig welder, blast cabinet, compressor, air tools, metal working tools, shop crane, building the rotisserie, and a thousand other shop odds and ends needed to make sure I get the job done right. My goal is a *complete* restification of every part on the car. Basically, a show quality car (that will be a daily driver... cause cars were meant to be driven).

Ok, that said, I'm doing this not because I think I can save a buck, but because its been a dream of mine to do it for years. Between the novice mistakes, set backs, etc., I expect I'm probably spending more doing it myself than if I paid someone else. So, ask yourself, do you *want* to do it yourself or would you be just as satisfied working 5-10 hours overtime or other part time job per week to foot the weekly bill and follow MARTINSR's guidelines for working with a body shop? Nothing sucks more than doing a job that you think is tedious, takes too much time, is frustrating and unsatisfying because you think you can save a buck. I think you'd probably enjoy the learning process as I have, but only you can speak to that.

Btw, yes, many body guys work for private hire and will come work in your garage. Also, I'm doing my car in a two car garage ... so it can be done. MARTINSR has a lot of "Basics of Basics" posts on just about every topic imaginable to body work ... search for and read them. Better info in them than just any book I've ever read. In fact, someone should compile them all into a book and publish it!

As for that pan under the rear seat, I'm into that right now. I've already trial fitted it once and trimmed it, and I've also transferred all the seatbelt hardware from the old pan to the new. I'm currently priming and painting the structure underneat. That particular pan is probably the hardest one to replace in the entire car, because it seems like they built the entire car around it. It's also a very difficult pan to patch, because there are not going to be any good donors, and fabricating patch panels is hard to do because of the intricate stamping. It would be impossible to duplicate. That pan costs around $110 from Ground Up, and is of very good quality.

Most of this is going to depend on your skill level, your willingness to learn, and your ability to learn from the inevitable mistakes. Oh yes, and your amount of patience. What you might consider is taking an autobody class at your local community college. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes they let you use your car as your shop project. Of course, you still have to buy the parts and pay for the materials.

I patched one side of my floor repaired the small holes and replaced metal as needed.
Patched lower front fenders,rear window,front window and lower cowling both sides.
Repaired the roof where someone did the hat dance.
Then replaced both rear quarters with the 3/4 quarters, took off frame and painted all the parts and the body.
After three years, Im just now thinking of putting the body back on the frame graemlins/hurray.gif .
I work on my car atleast 2-3 hrs. a day and all day sat.& sun.
"just ask my wife"
My friends say im looking at another 8 months before I drive this car again? graemlins/sad.gif
Hope this gives ya some idea of the time it takes?
T.C.

Gordo- (Brian)
Have posted my story before, will give Cliffs' Notes version.
Bought 66 Elky, drove two months. Pulled out of storage to "paint". TEN-(10) years later, full frame off, parted out three more cars, STILL NOT DONE. All Driveline done (scattered all over shop) All sheetmetal done and in final prime prior to paint. Every single exterior panel has been stripped and repaired. New floors, roof, cowl top panel, dash, and rear cab panels. All inner cowl panels, inner box panels repaired. ALL exterior sheetmetal,(except roof) is original to car. Using different tailgate because I didn't like the way the original fit. Frame & all suspension done. I WILL FINISH THIS CAR!!!

MARTINSR is correct in all his suggestions.

My Thoughts.

1. Perhaps floors can be cleaned, ground and spot repaired. (thanks MARTINSR)
2. Take a welding class and practice.
3. Take a body class and be a sponge.
4. Plan on this project taking a LONG time and providing you with many "learning" experiences.
5. Many cars in the condition of yours get started and NEVER finished by the person starting project!
6. Choose small areas to "learn" on and hone your skills.
7. Become VERY good friends with a Mentor who can "coach" you. (as you noted)
8. Be prepared to spend many years in this experience.
9. Be prepared to spend many $$$ in this experience.
10. Leave body on frame, start fixing and patching every thing but the rear 1/4 panels. (see final note)

Final note:
Take a long look at 1/4 panels, I deviate from MARTINSR in this area. (agree with you) Looks like they have already been reshaped at rear of wheel opening. Don't even think of trying to make a wheel opening moulding fit. Would go with panels, and outer wheelhousings. Eric, From Iowa has some very good pictures of his efforts in this area.

FINAL_FINAL NOTE

I have 10 years, $20,000.00 in this project. (not counting my own labor) Still will spend another $10,000.00 before done.
I bought another Elky to drive for now. Would do it all over again. (maybe different, but again) graemlins/clonk.gif

By the way, I OWN a Body and Mechanical shop!!!!!!

Karl :D

Ill voice my opinion on the subject. Been in the auto repair business for 15 years now. Just something that I will expand to Martin's confession of a shop owner.
The first thing I will add and sorry if you mentioned it Martin, but stop by the shop at closing hours. Are the guys already out the door at 5:01, or are they staying around to get things done?
I can pesronally tell you when you see guys leaving right at closing time time after time, they are NOT happy with their current position. When you are not happy the work quailty suffers.
Right now I really hate my job, busting my arse while the other guys(mainly owner's son) just kicks back and does nothing. He knows I hate having stuff laying around not getting done, so why do it when Eric(me) will get pissed and do it himself even THOU ITS NOT MY JOB.

Before I would stick around to get stuff ready for the next day. NOW when I see its 5pm am done and am going home!!! You think when people have that attitude they really care about someone else's car?? Hell NO.

Another point Ill add and sorry if I missed it also. Look for a clean shop. Just in my experinces working in 3 different shops in 15 years Ive come to find that a clean shop produces higher levels of work. A dirty shop tells me that the techs are just plain lazy to pick up tools(my big pet peeve) or sweep the floor. That laziness also tells me that they are looking for the easiet way to do some thing. Yes easy is nice but not always the best.

For example just today I got to paint a 01 honda, other guy fixed. Inalled door skin which meant blend onto quarter and front door. Well the quarter is built with a factory stopping line at the roof panel. Well his lazy arse instead of sanding the entire quarter he just wanted to blend the sail panel cause that extra 10 mins to sand the rest of the quarter was TOO HARD. Needless to say I sanded the thing. that there is taking the easy way out which is also making a lesser quality repair.

Sorry to be so long winded but am frigging ticked off graemlins/angry.gif

Anyway Karl mentioned Eric from iowa with pics, am that Eric smile.gif look at my link below shows some nice rust repair to a 70 velle graemlins/thumbsup.gif
I too have to agree with karl on the replace quarters. Have been reshaped before and nothing I hate more the fixing someone else bondo job.
As for quarters, in my book now that full OEM stye quarters are out they are the way to go HANDS DOWN. They are so much easier to install, no welds to show no cutting and fitting.
A 80% quarter would take tons of work to fit and weld and for a first timer body guy and welder I cant imagine welding a seem on a quarter what 6ft long!!

If you had a shop do the quarters a half or 80 meight seem cheaper but IN THE LONG RUN that full will be cheaper because of the cheaper labor rate to install.

the trunk floor looks like a patch there and here but might look diff once you clean it up. that rear seat panel, no doubt in my mind replace it. Like randy said kinda hard to replace but can be a pain to patch.

If you want to find a bored bodyguy, just ask around. Offer money NOT checks but GREEN DOLLAR BILLS Some guys would do it lend a helping hand, some will laugh at you :(

Right now I would love to do something but my hands are kinda tied. Just sold my project car of 4-5 years have another 70 that I want to do some wild stuff too, but dont have the time for something like that for myself. Getting ready to move to Kansas City graemlins/hurray.gif graemlins/hurray.gif and other stuff is keeping me from working on car but have the itch to do something. Dont have the time for my own stuff but would work a few hours there and here on someone else's. So yeah theres guys out there that would do some side action, hell right now in many places money is tight.

Enough of my problems, good luck with the car...Eric from Iowa :D

My first thought is what are you going to do with this car when it's done,drive it or haul it?
If your going to drive it.Patch any holes smaller than your fist. Leave the body on the frame. Tubs are for race cars. Go with the 80% qtrs. You don't have to weld the full length of the qtr.3M makes a panel adhesive #8115. You only need to weld the front and back of the pnl. I've been using it for years, this stuff works.
Go for it!

Hairball I have to disagree on the quarters. look at the pics you can clearly see that the body line is NO where close to being straight. Its full of mud. Now you plan on cutting and welding or glueing on that area. What happens when that area you make the cut throu has been damaged before, now you cut the metal? ALL that stress in the metal is going to be relieved, and go all over the place you wont be able to control it. You need to straighten the metal before you can cut throu it.

Plus look at the pics of the back window, I see rust that requires patches in the channel. That area is somewhat hard to make patces for and weld in without warping.

Replacing with a FULL OEM quarter would make replacing those quarters 10 TIMES as easier. No patches to make, no cutting and recutting, worrying about someone elses mistakes that you NOW have to fix before you can install that 80% quarter. Plus in the end you HAVE a better repair. Comparing goodmark 80%(200 bucks) and full(450) no way would I want the hassle and headaches of a 80% for 250 bucks!!

Every car and truck I own I drive, never trailed. In fact when I get my 70 chevelle done :rolleyes: the first place am heading is to CA graemlins/hurray.gif all 2 way roads gonna see AMERICA.
Point is everyone has been off the frame, not patched. Why not DO IT RIGHT the first time and not have to worry about it later???

Ive done the glue down the length of a quarter before not good. Had a slight line later down the road. Saw slight lines from other shops from around my area, so its not just me. have heard from people from this site of having slight lines. The slight line is caused by the different expansion rates of the glue and surrounding metal.

We had a pretty great discussion about glueing on panels about 3 months ago, some good info was shared. Ways of avoiding the line was discussed, but am not sure I would want to risk that chance again.

Hey guys.

Thanks for all the information. Very much appreciated. And sorry for the delay in response; no power for the last 3 days. graemlins/angry.gif But the Woodward Dream Cruise ended the weekend on a positive note. graemlins/beers.gif


Erik: You and I see things along similar lines. If I'm going to get neck deep in this bodywork project both financially and time-wise, I want to do it right the first time. And if full 1/4s make the labor that much easier, all the better. I know the passenger side rear 1/4 has significant Bondo work from the horizontal mid-body line down... from the top of the wheel housing back. Driver side doesn't appear as bad (at least what the magnet tells me)... but the previous owner definately had bondo work done on both rear 1/4s. The peace of mind I'll get by doing away with all that shoddy "stuff" & replacing both sides with full rear, all metal, OEM quarters is well worth the incremental cost & effort, to me anyways. If I leave the Bondo in, it's going to eat at me everytime I look at her...

Just looking at the Goodmark catalog, if I commit to fully replacing the existing problem areas with all new metal, we're talking ~ $1,600 in parts.

Full Rear Quarters: $550/ea.
Trunk Floor (7 piece set): $250
Trunk Dropoffs: $50/ea.
Under Rear Seat Floor Pan: $75

Granted this doesn't include tools, time, etc. but I think I can swallow those parts costs. And given the fact that I'm going to be replacing both rear quarters and moving the inner rear wheel wells inward, it would seem that situation would lend itself towards replacing the trunk floor while I'm already "in there". I'll have to play the under rear seat floor pan by ear... and see how well I can clean it up or not. That may be the one area I patch... but we'll have to see what makes sense.


Hairball: Without a doubt, this is going to be a driver!!! graemlins/thumbsup.gif


So, to conclude, I'm going to checkout the Fall course schedule at the local community college and see if I can pick up a welding and/or bodywork class. I truthfully believe I can do the work, it's just more a matter of becoming comfortable (confidence) with the process... before actually taking the torch to my baby!

--Brian