1969 Chevelle 4 door:

How much should I expect to pay for:

-- some minimal body work (couple rust spots, minor dings)
-- resealing windows
-- re-chroming
-- good quality paint job

Thanks

Roger

You asked an impossible question. The price could be anywhere from $2000 to $20,000. Chrome is not cheap, bodywork and paint is not cheap. For a "good" paint job alone you are looking at $5,000. You may be better off stripping the car down yourself (removing chrome, windows, bumbers, etc..) and then you might be able to save a few bucks Either way you cut it if you are paying to have it done it's going to be expensive. Just an example, to get the chrome done on my 61 Buick Skylark cost me $2500 (bumpers, grille, trim).

Paint jobs for classics at the shop I work for start around $5500 with NO body work.Most cars we do end up being between $10k-35K.Really depends on the rust issue because we replace quarters and usually find "other" rust that needs to be fixed to do the job right and make it last.

$5500 for just a paint job?? my god, i am in the wrong line of work... i have helped .paint a few cars. i did the wet sanding, taping, cleaning and watched the painter mix and spray. then we wet sanded,waxed,buffed. total cost to (PAINT) no body work except for the sanding was $1800. thats $763 for material and rest labor.2 days work.

$5500 for just a paint job?? my god, i am in the wrong line of work... i have helped .paint a few cars. i did the wet sanding, taping, cleaning and watched the painter mix and spray. then we wet sanded,waxed,buffed. total cost to (PAINT) no body work except for the sanding was $1800. thats $763 for material and rest labor.2 days work.

LOL! Here is a copy of a response I did over at Pro Touring on the same subject. I will be doing a full freelance story for MuscleRides.com breaking this all down to the ridicuous, but this basically expalins why paint HAS to cost so much, and why so many get screwed and have body shop horror stories trying to get paint work done cheap.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jy211
Some of these numbers are wild....I know I paid under $4K for my paint and they also smoothed out my firewall completely...

My response................

WOW, I am as we speak I am reviewing the paint and materials for a car we are finishing right now. We are at $2200 in polyester, primer, base, color, semi gloss with no direct expenses charged off for sand paper tape, paper, thinners, etc. Just the color alone, (for 6 quarts), was $570 ($380 per gallon) at C Schedule prices. Clear (for 6 quarts) is $600 ($400 a gallon) . Primer is $300 a gallon, we used a couple. Now granted we are painting inside, outside, under and over. But even if we did just the outer body it runs $1500 to $1800. So that leaves just $2200 to $2500 for labor. Now at $7 per sq ft for rent, and a car takes a 20 X 20 space, that is $250 per month in just space. So if it take 2 months, that is $500 + overhead (another $200?).

So let's deduct the materials at a low cost of $1500 + $700 for shop space, we deduct $2200 from the $4000 leaving $1800 for labor. Now at a shop rate of $50 per hour, that is 36 hours. So if someone can do it in 36 hours, what is a 200 hour job, I need to sub it all to them.

Keep in mind I did not talk about insurance, employee expenses, shop supplies, or any other misc.

This math right here is exactly why shops go broke halfway through projects. But if you can get someone hungry, go for it, but be careful. I have talked to at least 5 members in the last few months that are in trouble right now with projects shops cannot finish because they are being evicted, or simply cannot afford to finish the project because they under estimated the project.

You may want to read the entire thread here...........

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20617

The shop I work at specializes in restos,especially top notch high dollar ones.We did the cuda that sold at barret jackson for $450k.We do mostly mopars and the owners are willing to spend that kind of money.We just did a 66 chevelle that topped $20k and did not include paint,body work on doors, fenders,hood,no interior or floor pan work,no suspension work.Just replace all the metal from the doors back and remove a sunroof that had been installed.And this car was only a malibu not an ss or anything.

I really think it depends what you mean by "good." I'm sure your local Maaco can do it for very little, and a show quality job will cost big time. A lot of us with daily drivers want to know what a presentable job somewhere in between should cost, assuming a weathered but straight and non-rusted body.

For us, we stopped doing "presentable", or "nice but not show paint jobs". Doing those "just make it nice but not a show car" always caused controversy. Never is the customer and the shop on the same page as far is what is "presentable" or not a show car but still nice. We do 2 paint jobs now, casual outdoor show cars like Steak and Shake, Super Chevy, Goodguy's and indoor show cars like World of Wheels, Autorama, etc. There is a huge difference what lights can do to a otherwise gorgeous paint job. Our delivery / acceptance policy is simple, in the rare event you see a glaring flaw that shows up either outdoors or indoors, depending on what it is built for, it is fixed. Plain and simple, no argument required. Since we adopted this philosophy, we have been able to stay friends with all our customers.

I bought materials for my 68 Chevelle, over $2000 just in paint, primer, clear, reducer, catalysts, sand paper, tape, paper, body filler and poly putty. Labor is about a brazilian dollars (except I can't charge myself, i can't afford to pay it :D).

Man, you guys have got to quit scaring off hobbyist with these prices! Yes, I know they are legitimate cars that you are currently working on … but only apply to that customer. They might (or might not) apply to the person posting.

In general, it needs to be clear that it is not possible to give estimates online … that’s already been alluded to. The little rust and dings that you see, can so often turn into much more when opened up, and believe me it needs opened up. About the only estimate that could be given, is a rough idea as to the quantity of materials to complete a given job (and that’s even subjective).

For the shops that I’ve talked to, they work at a straight labor and material rate. Labor rates on metal work, finishing, painting, mechanical often all have different rates. General trend seems to be if you go to a body shop, and you ask them to rebuild your steering while they have the car … mechanical labor is higher. If you go to a mechanic, and ask him to paint the car … paint/prep labor is higher.

The only shops that I’ve found that will give you an “estimate” won’t do so until it is down to bare metal. These cars are OLD, and have tangled with countless grocery carts … and the rust you see, most likely has also rust the panel that it is connected to. With a car down to bare metal, a lot of restoration shops will give you an estimate for metal and paint work … it will still be an ESTIMATE, open to unforeseen labor.

Labor rates across the country vary wildly … typical in my area seems to be ~$40/hr (some more, some less). It’s very reasonable to shop around by labor rates, just keep in mind how much experience a shop has. Some can do a better job, in half the time!

Sheetmetal materials vary some, but not much in the grand scheme. Some shops can fabricate a panel, cheaper than a repro can be bought. Most will be dealing with Goodmark or Dynacorn repro sheetmetal, some with minimal discounts.

Paint prep work labor rates aren’t usually all that expensive, but it takes a lot. This is where most of your expensive will be! This is where most shops put the newby-kids, as it does require some experience … but mostly elbow grease. How long does it take? After a car makes it out of the metal fitting area, I’ve heard figures from 40 labor-hrs to 1000 hrs. And believe me, you can see it in a 40hr prep. A nice driver car would probably be ~100hrs.

Paint materials vary wildly across the whole industry, EVERY single shop in the country will tell you that. Primer materials all seem to hover around the same prices (I won’t quote cost, since I haven’t looked in a while). Basecoats vary wildly, and Clear’s are out of this world!! This is where you want to have a good solid heart-to-heart with the shop doing your car, what you want finished, and can quickly bring a paint job from $2000 to I don’t even know how high.

First consideration in basecoat is color. White is cheap, black is cheaper, red and orange are NOT. It has everything to do with the pigments that go into making them. Simple colors I think you can still buy for $100/gal (maybe not anymore, I don’t know). Complex colors and metallics are far more.

Then come candies/pearls, which are a 3-stage paint. If costs are a concern, these aren’t for you! Not only are they expensive, but it takes a very talented painter to even apply them.

After that, the next consideration is clear. Again, these go from pretty expensive to through-the-roof. The difference is in gloss, and clarity. Some clears actually aren’t even able to come out clear (more foggy yellow). Most painters have advised me to put more emphasis on clear materials, than basecoat materials.

Cost is all relative though. I’m not in the “biz”, but from what I’ve seen and read … more expensive paint materials ARE better quality products. I don’t think there’s much of a gray area out there, where a cheaper product could be a better product. It’s not a linear relationship though … at the low end, products that cost 2X as much very well could be 10X as good … at the upper end though, products that cost 10X as much, might not even be 2X as good.

Alright, to wrap up … all of us are on a budget, whether it’s a low-budget or high-budget. If you’re on a Jay Leno budget, don’t sweat it, just do the car. If you’re on my budget … here’s some things to help.

Absolutely, get the car body solid again. Metal in 99% of the area, and some amount of fiberglass can be acceptable on a driver car. Don’t skimp on this though. Once the body is solid again, you can do anything with it for the rest of your life.

Get the car into a good epoxy primer. A solid body, in epoxy can be driven or just plain survive everyday elements. Once you reach this point, you can breathe again … save more money, or just keep proceeding. It is absolutely impossible to tell you how much it will take to this point. If you want an idea of metal replacement, look at Goodmark’s Installation Center pricing, most shops will be close. From there, a shop should be able to spray epoxy primer for <$1000.

From there comes all the straightening, and sanding, and fillers, and primers, etc. Like was said, labor can be as low as 40hrs, but probably shouldn’t be less than 100hrs. Materials are also very high in this stages, and where a lot of shops falter when they forgot to add in all the sanding paper, and body filler, and labor, and labor … Estimates here might be <$1000, but really shouldn’t be under $2-3,000 on a driver car (obviously up from there).

After that comes base/clear. Materials are 90% of the cost here. Labor is actually not that bad. Buy what you can afford. If you have to split between a better base or clear, I’d go with a better clear. I think you can still buy basic PPG/Dupont base/clear materials for ~$600. Prices go way up from there.

Then comes, you can definitely op to (and probably should) to have a shop finish polish/buff. Paint jobs really don’t look that good without it, but it can most definitely be skipped if you want.

So, basically I think you can still get a $2000 paint job, and it’ll probably be comparable to the paint job that comes on a new GM vehicle. Not bad, it’ll last, don’t look too close. In reality, I think most cars are going to push $10k at the body shop with metal replacement and nicer paint. The big show winners and stuff (don’t even go there) … the painter alone will be over $10k in materials, before any labor!

I don’t know if this whole dissertation helps, or not. I hope it does though. Please feel free to always ask more questions though.
Thanks, Neal

I did 99% of the work myself, with a couple of retired professionals helping with the final spray. I don't know what products your using but I had over 4 grand in materials before I bought paint and clear. That added another 3. I wouldn't even want to know how many hundreds of hours I have in body work and the sanding, sanding, sanding....

BTW, that was 4 years ago.

Neal, you did very well for someone not in the industry. I am not picking, but will comment on the few things

In general, it needs to be clear that it is not possible to give estimates online … that’s already been alluded to.

Since all our work comes in from out of state, or at least out of town. Only 3 customers in the last couple years are local. We do online estimates everyday. We even do agreed fixed cost estimates with very good pictures and communication. But also understand we usually do everything, so it is pretty easy to do a estimate to do everything on a Camaro or Chevelle when you have done 100s of these cars.


For the shops that I’ve talked to, they work at a straight labor and material rate. Labor rates on metal work, finishing, painting, mechanical often all have different rates. General trend seems to be if you go to a body shop, and you ask them to rebuild your steering while they have the car … mechanical labor is higher. If you go to a mechanic, and ask him to paint the car … paint/prep labor is higher.

We work at a flat rate for all hours and have formulas for fabrication or paint / body materials, directly related to labor hours.


The only shops that I’ve found that will give you an “estimate” won’t do so until it is down to bare metal.

Not exactly correct, a good shop should be able to see through the paint. A good shop will only be surprised 1 in 100 times, and should be willing to absorb that 1 surprise.

Labor rates across the country vary wildly … typical in my area seems to be ~$40/hr (some more, some less). It’s very reasonable to shop around by labor rates, just keep in mind how much experience a shop has. Some can do a better job, in half the time!

This is very true. A shop that specializes in a specific make or style should be more efficient, therefore, more cost effective. I have always been a big advocate of taking a Chevelle to a Chevy shop, a Mustang to a Ford shop

Paint prep work labor rates aren’t usually all that expensive, but it takes a lot. This is where most of your expensive will be! This is where most shops put the newby-kids, as it does require some experience … but mostly elbow grease. How long does it take? After a car makes it out of the metal fitting area, I’ve heard figures from 40 labor-hrs to 1000 hrs. And believe me, you can see it in a 40hr prep. A nice driver car would probably be ~100hrs.

Two hundred hours from sheetmetal to paint is the norm for a casual show cars. Double it for a extreme World of Wheels car. Then add 16 hours for final prep, picking, taping, staging, etc. Then add another 6 to 16 hours for spraying depending on how many colors


First consideration in basecoat is color. White is cheap, black is cheaper, red and orange are NOT. It has everything to do with the pigments that go into making them. Simple colors I think you can still buy for $100/gal (maybe not anymore, I don’t know). Complex colors and metallics are far more.

There are no $100 gallons. Even knock off products like Matrix (use at your own risk) are a couple hundred dollars a gallon. It would be absolute suicide to use cheap materials on a otherwise nice paint job. Metallic colors are not always expensive. Some silvers are near the bottom price level.

After that, the next consideration is clear. Again, these go from pretty expensive to through-the-roof. The difference is in gloss, and clarity. Some clears actually aren’t even able to come out clear (more foggy yellow). Most painters have advised me to put more emphasis on clear materials, than basecoat materials.

The emphasis should be on all the products throughout. Nothing is more important then the etch primer that goes on the bare surface except the primer that goes on top off that, except the base that goes on top of the primer, except the clear that finishes it all. Inexpensive bases are more prone to poor adhesion, and color dye back. High solids clears go on with less reducer, some products use as little as 10% reduction, and more catalyst, some as much a 33%. DO NOT cheat on materials unless it is a quickly scuff and shot, period!

Cost is all relative though. I’m not in the “biz”, but from what I’ve seen and read … more expensive paint materials ARE better quality products. I don’t think there’s much of a gray area out there, where a cheaper product could be a better product. It’s not a linear relationship though … at the low end, products that cost 2X as much very well could be 10X as good … at the upper end though, products that cost 10X as much, might not even be 2X as good.

It is not linear, but you do get what you pay for.


Absolutely, get the car body solid again. Metal in 99% of the area, and some amount of fiberglass can be acceptable on a driver car. Don’t skimp on this though. Once the body is solid again, you can do anything with it for the rest of your life.

Very, VERY good advice


Then comes, you can definitely op to (and probably should) to have a shop finish polish/buff. Paint jobs really don't look that good without it, but it can most definitely be skipped if you want.

We figure 3 to 4 days for color sanding and buffing, so 24 to 32 hours

A friend of mine had his AMX painted at Macco. He did all the body work including the final blocking, but I have to say it came out sweet for $1100 bucs. DuPont Chroma bc/cc. Needless to say I was amazed after what I spent on the camaro ($3000 for just laying on the paint) and I supplied the materials. And did al the body work myself. lol.

A friend of mine had his AMX painted at Macco. He did all the body work including the final blocking, but I have to say it came out sweet for $1100 bucs. DuPont Chroma bc/cc. Needless to say I was amazed after what I spent on the camaro ($3000 for just laying on the paint) and I supplied the materials. And did al the body work myself. lol.

I met a guy at a cruise a year or so ago that had one of those Smokey and the Bandit cars with a Macco job on it. He said he went in, told them he'd bring them the car ready to paint and supply the paint. And that he was willing to pay the full price even though he was supplying the paint if they'd take a little extra care with the job. The car was really well done, great paint job.