My buddy that works at a local body shop says they get the same 2042 clear that I just paid $160 for $100! Eric has talked of getting a discount, I talked my boss into getting a account at the PPG jobber to help keep costs down ;) But the jobber said you have to buy "like ten grand a month in paint" before PPG gives you any discount is that true? How do they determine this we are a buisness and have a buisness account!

The discount amount is something the jobber sets, have your buddy order the stuff for you, or have him call in the order for you and pay cash.

As Bob said the discount is set by the jobber not PPG. AS for the amount it all depends on how much the jobber feels like giving you. I get roughly around 33% on PPG products. The place where we buy from has 3 levels of discounts. Basically I figured I get my hardner for free.

10 grand a month in paint is alot of paint. :eek: My small 3 man shop average cost is around 1500 bucks a month.

THanks guys I will hit him up. I seem to be finding this screw the average guy and give the millionair the breaks! I called Toyota and my wifes door was $705, I called back and used my bosses account (who hardly buys anything from them) and it was $495!

Originally posted by zachscc:
THanks guys I will hit him up. I seem to be finding this screw the average guy and give the millionair the breaks! I called Toyota and my wifes door was $705, I called back and used my bosses account (who hardly buys anything from them) and it was $495! There is ALWAYS a difference between what YOU pay and the amount that a shop, repair facility, or any business pays for goods. It's called wholesale vs. retail! When I owned my electronic repair shop years ago, I would normally pay about 35 to 40% less for the same part that the consumer would pay. THAT was my profit margin on that part. Nothing wrong or dishonest about it.

Sorry Jerry didn't mean to make you mad. If I was having a body shop do my work I would expect to pay retail. However if I am buying paint at a supplier and doing the work myself I think I should get the break too, god knows PPG won't go hungry! It's the same thing though with grocerys or whatever if you buy in bulk or carry the groceryies out yourself and don't mind not having things stacked neatly on the shelf at the grocery store ie.. still sitting in cases on warehouse type rack you always get a better price. By the way I am a maintenance electrician.

Originally posted by zachscc:
Sorry Jerry didn't mean to make you mad. If I was having a body shop do my work I would expect to pay retail. However if I am buying paint at a supplier and doing the work myself I think I should get the break too, god knows PPG won't go hungry! It's the same thing though with grocerys or whatever if you buy in bulk or carry the groceryies out yourself and don't mind not having things stacked neatly on the shelf at the grocery store ie.. still sitting in cases on warehouse type rack you always get a better price. By the way I am a maintenance electrician. Hey, I'm not mad! smile.gif Distributors USUALLY charge the average guy who walks in off the street more than a dealer or shop. This protects the shop's or dealer's profit margin. For instance, as I'm sure Bill K will tell you, that as a shop, you NEED the profit from the part, paint, etc, AS WELL as your labor charges to pay the bills. Again, MOST distributors do this. Some don't. As far as groceries go, the same store is dealing mostly with the public....not really the same thing. They are acting as sort of a "sub distributor" AND dealer. I know that, as a dealer, if I walked into my distributor and purchased an item, I would get one price, but the average guy "off the street" would get another...usually 30 to 35% higher. If they didn't charge the guy "retail" I'd be pretty ticked off! What I would recommend is have someone "in the business" order the stuff for you "at cost". Become a good friend to someone who paints cars for a living! :D

I won't be very popular with my opinion. But it CHAPS MY HIDE when a RETAILER sells a product to a RETAIL customer at a wholesale price!

He is doing a HORRIBLE DISHONEST thing to the shop or business that he ALSO sells to.

How would you like it to have a shop. You charge your customer $100.00 for a part on a repair of his car. This is the retail price that is set by the manufacture for the CONSUMER. This consumer and valued customer then goes down to the parts store and finds out he can buy the part for $75.00 or even $50.00 because the parts store wants to be a whore. He then thinks YOU Mr shop owner is a thief and the rotten whore of a parts store has just cost you a customer. DAMN right it upsets me.

There is DISTRIBUTION CENTER, JOBBER, SHOP, and CONSUMER (retail) costs for a reason.

The jobber that sells wholesale to retail customers should loose the power to purchase from the distribution center in my opinion.

If you have some buddy with a shop that can get the part or materials at his cost, fine, that is no big deal. But the jobber selling at wholesale is WRONG.

Thanks, MARTINSR, that's what I was trying to get across.

Zach, why shouldnt someone who owns a shop who spends thousands of dollars a MONTH in paint get a better deal then some guy from off the street who MIGHT spend 800 bucks in their lifetime?

Thats how the world works, it doesnt matter if its paint or a brand new chevy truck. You didnt think you bought that truck for the same amount that the dealer paid for it did ya?? smile.gif

You guys ready for a "Basics of Basics" on shop discounts? smile.gif

This is how it works. The jobber makes about 35% when they sell something at retail. At Refinishers net about 30. They REALLY need to make that much to keep the doors open. So, to give anymore they need to buy the product with a "drop ship" in a minumum amount of a 10, 15, 20, or more thousand dollar order. The larger the order the larger the discount. PPG, DuPont and most others have a very poor discount system. They have some laim discount like 5% with a 25 thousand dollar "drop ship" (they are called a number of different things, that was what S-W called it with NAPA). I had a much greater discount to offer the jobbers. 5% for five thousand, 10 for ten thousand, 15 for fifteen thounsand and more. So, really, the jobber selling PPG has to do some HUGE orders to get the discount to pass on to the shop.

The other way the jobber can give the shop a discount is if the shop falls under certain criteria. If the shop was a government shop like an Army base or State ran shop for State vehicles there was a special pricing. A "manufacture" of an item, or another was "fleet" where only a few part numbers would be ordered on a regular basis. These criteria with PROOF like sales brochures of the manufacture could get a bigger discount. This was NOT the jobbers decision but the manufacture. So, with PPG's grace, they would "rebate" a certain percentage to the jobber after the jobber proved the shop bought what they bought. In other words, if a manufacture was on "M" pricing they bought at "jobber net". The jobber would then send in the proof of purchaces and S-W would rebate them in the "M" case, 20%. The jobber would only make 20%. But in this case, the sales were usually pretty good and the part numbers bought were the same every month so it was worth it to the jobber. I had only one manufacture in my territory. It did about 12 thousand dollars a month with five part numbers! So, the jobber dropped shipped everything, he made the 15 on the drop ship and then the 20% rebate to get the 35% he needs to stay in business.

Then you have the other "mystery money" issue. Most every paint manufacture has handed out MILLIONS of dollars in "incentive checks". These "incentive checks" were basically a "discount up front" for purchases the shop was GOING to make. It was based on the shops size. With a quick calculation using a couple of facts like how many cars go thru the shop a year, or total sales or a few others you can know the amount of paint products they will buy with amazing accuracy.

Sooooo, these shops would take this "incentive check" up front to buy a new booth or speed boat what ever the owner wanted to do with it. He would sign a contract with the pleasant name of a "user agreement" smile.gif

I made contracts or proposals for THOUSANDS of dollars of incentive checks. How about I personally did ones for 60 and 80 thousand dollars. I know of some in the half million mark!

If the shop you are working with has gotten one of these incentive checks, they sure as heck are not going to be getting any MORE of a discount. The jobber is paying a certain amount of this incentive check back monthly to the manufacture with the manufacture eating the rest.

There are "new ways" like the body shop programs. These programs like "NAPA Collision center", ICI's "GEM", PPG's "Certifiedfirst" and others lock a shop in so they can get a rebate every year in cash as well as ads in the newspaper and phone books if it contains the manufacture logo.

The discount issue is much more complicated than I ever thougth, I will tell you that.

OK guys I get it, I am just trying to always get the best price.(savy consumer, cheap arse, whatever)To make my modest income stretch farther.
That's why I have never bought a car from a dealer and never will, I prefer to buy from a private guy out of the paper just trying to get a fair price. Ever been to KBB.COM and checked your value of your vehicle using the retail vs. private party value vs. trade in value?
I don't want to screw the jobber or a shop, but when a multi-billion dollar company is making a 50% profit on something they sell to a average guy, I can't help but think someone is getting the end of the stick with poop on it. ;)

Contrary to your statement, I don't think you do "get it." First off, if you had paid attention to MartinSr's post, you would have seen what the profit margin is, how it's determined and who qualifies to get discounts.

I'm like you in that I want to get the best possible price for what I buy. On the other hand, I've been in the body/paint business long enough to be realistic about who does or doesn't get a stick with whatever on it. In any case, there isn't a 50% profit margin floating around for most retail customers. There are some exceptions.

And for that matter the compitition is FIERCE.

If you want to get an idea of what the paint business is like, go to the inner city and watch the crack dealers on the corner shooting at one an other. :eek: That will give you an idea.

Those "incentive checks" I mentioned? How would you like giving one for 50 or 60 thousand to a shop and locking up a "user agreement" only to have PPG come in and BUY your user agreement off the shop with an 80 thousand dollar incentive check? graemlins/sad.gif

In one market area I had to be business in PPG and DuPont through out SOOOOOO much money in the form of incentive checks they totally ruined the business. They bought each other out, they bought new buildings for shops, spray booths (we are talking $100,000 booths) it was insane!!

What was left of the profit in that area? NOTHING. You can bet they were working on a heck of a lot less than the optimum 35%. I would say it was closer to 20.

It really depends on where you are. Now, there was areas like a city out in the middle of the Californa desert that would mark up their paint products 50 and 60 percent! I couldn't believe it, they would get 35 bucks for a gallon of plastic filler! But again, supply and demand. They had the control or they wouldn't have done it.

Aside from what has been said....
Another consideration is the fact that someone has to order the materials, receive them, put them away, account for them, write the check, etc. Like everyone here, those employees want to be paid for their time. It those "hidden" overheads that sink new business's. Also, when your setting up a new account with a distributor, there's a mountain of paper associated with it. Even if your a cash account, a decent system will track purchases.
I hate paying retail too, but if business's don't make money, they fold. The "one time buyers" are where "they can catch a fat one", because if they lose you, they aren't out much in their opinion.

Zach,

As someone who works for PPG, I just don't understand and could easily take offense at your statement that "when a multi-billion company is making a 50% profit on something they sell to a average guy, I can't help but think someone is getting the end of the stick with poop on it."

I don't see how you can be mad at a company wanting to make money off their product and not give it away for cost. If they did, they wouldn't be in business long. And if you think there is 50% profit in paint, you are way off base graemlins/clonk.gif . That profit, or end of the stick as you call it, help pay the salaries of people like me who work for PPG and believe in the products we promote and sell. Though it may be biased, I feel PPG is priced very well for the product, sometimes too cheap for some things.

If you feel the retail for PPG, as in 2042 is too high, feel free to buy from the Omni line or some other lower priced paint line :D . When people/shops buy the paint they are also paying for technical expertise in correctly using the materials just purchased. And believe me the average guys on the street get there money worth on phone calls either wanting help using the stuff or trying to figure out what went wrong with the paint that won't let it stick graemlins/clonk.gif .Don't take money out of PPG's or my pockets just because we are an honest business trying to make some profit that is higher than you feel is fair. I have the opinion that any profit will be higher than what you feel is fair. :rolleyes:

"vettefella
Senior Member
Reged: 11/26/01
Posts: 950
Loc: Biloxi, Ms
Sticker Shock Is Killing Me!
#605728 - 10/23/03 05:16 AM Edit Reply Quote


For almost all of my body/paint career, when I needed paint materials for one of my personal vehicles, either my jobber or the tech rep provided the materials free. I retired three years ago and moved over 600 miles away. Except for infrequent returns on consulting deals, the freebies have mostly dried up."--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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I'd say there are some exceptions and you forgot to mention the FREEBIES while you were explaining why that person shouldn't get a Discount. Someone has to pay the fiddler for the dance. While you were dancing did you know the Average Person was paying Full Retail to cover your fun. Nothing is FREE.

Tell Us how the Freebies Effect the Paint Companies and their Profits as MartinSr has pointed out.

Tell us how your 6 figure a year job helps keep Insurance Prices down for autobody repair work.

Tell us why you despise the Average Worker in America when they were responsible for your income.

How much do those Freebies Really Compare when it comes to JUST Discounts.

The American Pie is all over your face and you begrudge someone else an attempt at a discount for a crumb.

You guys should be ashamed of yourself for jumping up and denying, Zach his right as a PAYING Consumer to which he is entitled to a gripe.

Insult intended because him and several other people foot the bill for you to dance around with the freebies.

Dee, that is just vindictive, why would you post that and start crap?

Vettefella needs no defense and I certainly don't want the rath of D71 but if someone on the outside of this argument can commment.

The freebes someone gets for buying tens of thousands of dollars a product a MONTH are a part of doing business. I get a freebe from my SnapOn guy thats value is in direct relation to the money I have spent that year. The guy who has the new $7,000.00 tool box and thousands more in tools gets a nice jacket and clock or something. I get a mug. Vettefella got paint to paint person vehicles, it is no difference. When I was a paint rep I gave out freebes all the time. It is a part of doing business. Yes "someone pays" for it, everyone including the person who gets the "deep discounts". It is not only the poor soul on the street who pays retail, it is everyone.

But this is the simple FACT the company who is buying hundreds of thousands of dollars of paint a year is providing the profits to the paint manufacture which allows it to give these freebes. NOT the guy who is painting his car in his garage.

I gave a LOT of freebes out and I have to say, it wasn't the big guy I was giving them to. 99% of all my give aways were to your average shop who was paying refinishers net. But the real big accounts are who paid for that.

Vettefellas paint jobbers gave out PLENTY of freebes to EVERYONE not just the big guys, but the big guys are how paid for it!

The argument on why there is a four tiered pricing and freebes are miles apart. Yet, they are simply the same, BUSINESS.

It is not being hypocritical to say the on the street comsumer shouldn't get a big discount and taking freebes at the same time.

Come on now Dee, I hope you delete that post. In the five years I have been visiting forums, I have had a number of guys send me nasty emails, one even put my name and email on some porno site. But I have never seen this type of behavior. Please rethink it.

What MartinSr,

The Freebies only add to the Cost over the long run.

I do find it strange that he was also hammering on the guy for "he didn't get it". Not only does Zach not get it but in some people's mind it would be a crime if they did even for a one time deal.

Again the Freebies do cost someone something somewhere. It is also amazing to see someone pulled from the freebies for an after re-action for effect of the REAL WORLD.

What he is showing is exactly why Companies are going out of business they are giving it away casuing cost to only go up. Gripe about someone wanting a discount?

You go through and delete your post and him too.

Every Hobbyist here should say something abotu why are FREEBIES Given at the Expense of Rising Prices and No Discounts for them. It is a right to gripe as a paying customer whether they be big or small dollar. Every Dollar Counts.

Dee, how companies go out of business is a much deeper issue than giving freebes.

Just about every single thing that costs the company money like freebes, new products like value lines, incentive checks and so on HAD to be done to STAY in business. That includes moving out of the country or having products made overseas.
I agree, yes, some of that has to do with greed, I am not defending such actions.

But I have to tell you, I can't say how other companies feel but S-W as a COMPANY hated to do business like that. There were products they kept in the line like lacquer sealers (LOL one was called Poly Satin (Satin with a short a and i like the cloth) and the company guys called it Poly Satin pronouced "SAY-TON" like the devil) they HAD to keep this outdated junk because other manufactures such as PPG still had them in their lines. If S-W didn't have it, then PPG would make the sale. When DuPont started giving out tickets with air fair to NASCAR races the other HAD to follow. Do you think they wanted to hand out those freebes? How about those incentive checks? Do you think S-W wanted to hand some shop who may go out of business in a year a check for a half a million dollars? How about Levis, they just closed down their last plant here in the states. The HAD to, the compitition was making their pants off shores for a fraction of the cost Levi's was and selling them for less than Levis cost to make! The public sees cheap price and buys it, Levis just couldn't sell there product on quality, quality doesn't mean what it did years ago, it is PRICE, PRICE, PRICE.

You just can't make a blanket statment like the company is CHOOSING to give freebes and closing plants or laying off good people. You just can't say that.

MartinSr the buck stops here - last post.

Freebies given away do effect the profits. No matter how anyone looks at it the freebies do have a Negative effect. If S&W didn't like giving away freebies then that is very understandable.

Discounts are tolerable as long as the Company still maintains their Profit margins for continuing business in a normal decent fashion. That Business includes Marketing, Research&Development, and so on. Everyone needs a little pay raise every now and then. Everyone also needs to get a break every now and then with a discount as they earn it. No one should be entitled to freebies then make comments about others shouldn't ask for a Discount. NEVER EVER!

It is also not tolerable for people to be running their mouth about getting freebies when others are paying Full Retail. That serves no purpose except to create tension for the people helping to pay those bills. Every dollar counts.

Paint prices are getting out of hand, last week a new employee at my supplier didn't apply my discount to some paint I bought, what a shocker but it was corrected. I feel sorry for the average walk in customer. Paint sales in this area are very competative, I think because the profits are so high.

D71 I guess now wouldnt be a good time to mention that when we moved from S-W paint to PPG, they bought us BRAND NEW SATA PAINT GUNS,5 in total.

I even got on the action and recieved a 500+ dollar SATA gun tongue.gif

Originally posted by baddbob71:
Paint sales in this area are very competative, I think because the profits are so high. No Bob, it is not that simple. It is because of a number of things. One is sure, it is a BUSINESS and they make money. But the profits have shrunk the last few years. I mean pure gross profit, it is down. The simple fact MORE accounts are needed to maintain the same profits! So, the more competative it is. S-W automotive division has been "flat" for a number of years (about 10 I believe), ZERO growth.

It is more than freebies. Freebies along with reduced profit "value lines", incentive checks, buying companies before the competitor does, basically keeping up with the Jones is shrinking profits.

The thing that people forget is that these companies WANT to make money. If they raise the price out of the buyers reach they loose.

But listen, are they aways on the up and up, hell no. I am not saying they are. The federal trade commision investiation into price fixing between the paint companies didn't come about out of thin air. :rolleyes:

I can see the point on Vettefellas seemingly contradiction in his receiving freebies from a paint company and saying the home hobbyist shouldn't get a price break. I understand this, freebies along with many other things require profit to made somewhere. Refraining from giving freebies and all the other things that cost the company profit is not going to "free up" monies to pass a discount onto the retail consumer.

They may seem related, and they are to a point. But the fact is they are both parts of doing business. Freebies and all the others are like rent on their locations, it is simply a part of doing business.

Vettefellas argument on the retail consumer paying retail is not limited to the paint business. It is a statement about business in general. There are four basic pricing levels as I pointed out. They are found in EVERY business. It is ludicrous for us to complain that they exist. I feel the same way as Vettefella and I use to get "freebies" too. As an employee I could have gotten pallets of paint FREE. Heck, I sent back PALLETS of paints, sand paper, primers and even tools to be DESTROYED. These were "defects." "Defects" that people had brought back to the store because they had some goofy problem with. I DESTROYED about 60 gallons of urethane primer one time just because the cans were rusty. I can assure you the company does not want to destroy this product. So should it maybe sell it so they don't and pass the savings onto the consumer? No, they chose to destroy it because it was the best thing to do to ensure the products YOU and I bought would be of good quality. Would the fact that I have many gallons of clears and primers and boxes of sand paper in my garage that I "saved" from death change how I am viewed because I say the retail consumer should pay retail? They are two completely different issues.

Maybe it was a way Vettefella said it, I don't know. All I know is I basically said the same thing. They are not making a zillion dollars off you. They charge retail for a retail customer just like every other business. And if you have a buddy to buy it for you on their discount, go for it. But you have to understand why THEY get the discount and YOU don't.

We just can't beat each other up over such things. If there is a disagreement, fine, leave it at that.

graemlins/waving.gif And I think I will.

Thanks for essentially making my case for me, MartinSr. I know D71 and I had a serious disagreement about why companies were moving off-shore, but I didn't realize I had tee-teed in his morning cereal and get him all fired up to go gunning for me on other forums.

I'll make one point only just so there's no misunderstanding. I never said that the home hobbyist SHOULDN'T get a discount. If I didn't make it clear, what I was saying was that an individual off the street had no basis to EXPECT a discount. Yes, I got a rather large discount or freebies from my supplier when I got supplies for my personal vehicles. The shops I managed bought $15K-$25K in paint materials each month over a period of 15-16 years. I'm not aware of any business in the world that doesn't give concessions of some kind to their best customers. I never expected any concessions nor ever asked for them. In most cases, I would refuse them if offered. I didn't need the sense of "now you owe me" that sometimes comes with freebies. I've been offered everything from sex(a female sales rep) to hundreds of dollars a month under the table. Stuff like that come not just with strings attached, but with big ol' ropes.

Yes, my old supplier will still give me a heavy discount if I'm willing to travel 600 miles to get it. Other than that, I now pay retail at my local supplier just like everyone else.

Further, I was pointing out that the 50% profit allegation was bogus. I think that item has already been debunked well enough.

Man this has totally got out of hand. If I can save a buck, you bet your butt I will. I think paint prices today are friggin rediculous. 420.00$ for a gallon of basecoat.
So I guess since my brother in law works at ford and can get me a new vehicle on his A plan I'm stealing out of somebodys pocket.
Theres not one person on this board that can say they aint got there fair share of deals, that in one way or another didn't effect a consumer or a business owner.
I'd be willing to bet that if Zach posted he got a brand new crate 502 at factory cost we'd all be chomping at the bit wanting the address to get the same deal.

NOUGH SAID. Give Zach a break

RandyB.

Sitting down to negotiate a contract blows on buyer and sellers parts. I got stuck renegotiating a contract and when everything was said and done it came to this.
1.Buy only from X
2.Larger the qty better the price.
3.Multiple orders at once additional discounts apply.
The end contract made a win-win or win-lose. If we didn't spend enough with then we didn't get the discounts.

Originally posted by red2rider:
Man this has totally got out of hand. If I can save a buck, you bet your butt I will. I think paint prices today are friggin rediculous. 420.00$ for a gallon of basecoat.
So I guess since my brother in law works at ford and can get me a new vehicle on his A plan I'm stealing out of somebodys pocket.
Theres not one person on this board that can say they aint got there fair share of deals, that in one way or another didn't effect a consumer or a business owner.
I'd be willing to bet that if Zach posted he got a brand new crate 502 at factory cost we'd all be chomping at the bit wanting the address to get the same deal.

NOUGH SAID. Give Zach a break

RandyB. Randy, I hope that you don't think all this talk was directed at Zach!! This is BS crap bitching between guys on a SUBJECT Zach and his question was GONE from the tread about 15 posts ago.

Zach asked a question, it was answered and then the whole free trade/capitalism of business in the world sprang up out of nowhere.

There is NOTHING what so ever mean spirited towards Zach here, I can assure you. smile.gif

The paint cost issue is a big time topic in my area, something happened here locally that I feel is somewhat related to this discussion here. A good friend of mine Bob ownes a mechanical shop in town and does business with one parts supplier that sells DuPont paint products. He purchases about $10k in mechanical parts monthly. Last week he ordered up some DuPont paint for one of his personal projects and was charged full walk in price. He doesn't buy paint products very often but questioned the cost with the guy working the store counter. The response he got didn't set with him very well. Basically volume of sales sets the price at which the products are sold. Bob inquired if the local bodyshops purchased mechanical parts at the same discount as him and the answer was yes. Bob was pissed off. The bodyshops in town who were buying far less mechanical items than him were getting his discount but he couldn't get the discount they were getting on paint and materials. Bob told the store they will give him the same disount on the P&M or he will take his business elswhere. Bob now gets P&M for the same cost as the local Body Shops. Good for Bob!
I bought a half pint of DBC yesturday, the color was a solid red and it was sold to me for $29-----(1/16th of a gallon!) list price on it was $56! I think the prices are getting way out of hand :(
We've got a new dog in town- Sikkens, and a good friend of mine is a distributor for these products. He's offerring about 48% savings compared to the PPG global and DBC lines. I've been shooting mostly PPG for the last 6 years without complaint but the Lesinol (sp?) line of Sikkens is looking better and better. For a shop without a mixing system enabling a shop to mix very small amounts of color, the profitability of small jobs in the future looks very grim. :(

Boy, now we go into another subject, value lines. I hate, I mean it really bugs me how the value lines have screwed up the business. PPG came up with OMNI to compete against the "off brands" like Matix, 5*STAR and others I understand how it had to be done. I just wish it would have stayed, you bought PPG, DUPont and the like for high quality and you bought Matrix, Valspar or what ever to save a buck. Not that the Matrix and Valspar aren't a decent product but that was a choice, to save a buck or go with a long standing high quality product where the "ODDS" were you had a better product.

Now, you have the SIKKENS guy telling you he can save you 48% off PPG GLOBAL and DBC, Well DUH he is doing that with the SIKKENS VALUE LINE NOT "SIKKENS"!! Ask him to give you the price comparison for COMPARIBLE products like SIKKENS "Autobase" and "Autoclear" with PPG's GLobal or DBC !! Then you will find out that the SIKKENS cost is higher. He should be comparing the SIKKENS value line with PPG's value line, OMNI, I will bet you a dollar that THOSE prices will be very comparible probably within a few percent at best. So once again the line between fact and fiction in the marketing gets a little grayer. :(

On your buddies pricing. I'll tell you this, each line that the jobber carries is different. The shop is setup on a "MI" or "I" (installer) pricing because of what they buy in PARTS.

The jobber gets a rebate back from the manufactures on a certain set of "lines" that your buddy regularly purchaces. For the store to punch up a PPG number and have the "I" pricing it would have to have been already set up in advance with PPG's rebate program. I am not saying this is right, I am just telling you how the system works. So, it is very likely if they were to buy some heavy duty parts for a big rig, they would get the same results. They don't regulary buy the heavy duty parts, thus they don't get the discount.
The requirments for PPGs rebate program is MUCH higher than most "I" programs with regards to mechanial componants. Those manufactures will give them out at a drop of a hate, PPG and other paint companies just don't do that. They have a market they feel doesn't need to be "whored" like that. So the discount your buddy now gets is eaten by the jobber, they are NOT getting the rebates back from PPG, they eat it. I am not saying that is so wrong, heck if the guy buys ten grand in parts he should get a break on the paint especially if it is for personal use.

By the way Bob, you should give the SIKKENS Autobase and Autoclear a try. I have had very little experiance with it but hear nothing but raves over these products. They are well worth the extra bucks.

I don't feel beat up by anyone. Vettefella has a different opinion than mine, and others, read "reverse primming" but he is entitiled to his opinion that's the best part about America, right?

Just an update I now have my buddy that is the painter for a large shop in town buy all my PPG paint at their %37.5 discount which means I just got a $432 gallon of red DBC for $270. That is a $162 savings that PPG NOT the jobber eats, and god knows PPG is still making a nice profit. It's a pain giving my buddy cash and having him buy it but I have to work almost 2 day at my job to make $160 after taxes!

I still have allot more paint to buy as I am painting my dad's 53 5 Window chevy P/U next. Once agian I am not hurt by anyone, I am just anoid at PPG for having to jump through all these hoops to avoid getting raped, and I feel bad for the guys that don't have a good friend that buys in bulk.

My Turn!!!!!!!!
There is nothing wrong with wanting a deal.

Zach, WAS NOT BEING RIPPED OFF!!!!!!
He did find a way through the maze of product purchase. FINE, no problem.

All Products being sold have different price structures, depending on how much you buy, when you buy, how you buy(internet), and inventory levels.

There may be other reasons but, these will do for now.

My shop is one of those $10,000.00 a month purchasers, and that is just paint & body materials.

We bulk order once a week direct to the vendor, product is drop shipped in bulk.
If we do a special, non-Internet emergency order, WE PAY MORE FOR PRODUCT!!!!!!

Our paint & materials inventory is $10,000.00 higher now than when we got two or three runs a day from the paint vendor.

Freebees-- are not free!
When we built our new building, we recieved an interest free loan for five years for some equipment. Great! Not really- our purchase price for that $10,000.00 a Month in materials would be reduced even more if we did not take advantage of the "freebee" We are paying for the free money, as MARTINSR said. We Know that.

Our Mechanical shop purchases oil in Bulk, it is delivered in a tank truck, but I can drive two blocks and buy it cheaper from the Mass merchandiser in Quarts.

As MARTINSR said, same with many other automotive products. Remember though, there are Good, Better, Best in many brake parts and other mechanical replacement parts. Also it is a lot cheaper to copy something than it is to design it!

Sales-- Does anybody believe that when they have clothes clearance sales at the end of year, or change of season that they are losing lots of money. NO When the selection was large, the people who purchased paid a premium for their options. The markups are so high on the front end they could turn those clothes into rags and still be ahead.

We could also debate the Global Economy, exchange of trade, and Drug prices.

D71 I thought about saying this next comment for a long time before adding to post.
Zach is learning.
Based on your comments and attitude,
YOU are the one who is CLUELESS. graemlins/clonk.gif graemlins/waving.gif

Karl

Now I'm confused, I was told U-Tech was the value/low priced line in Sikkens

Originally posted by baddbob71:
Now I'm confused, I was told U-Tech was the value/low priced line in Sikkens Bob, you and me both! I am not sure what the "Lesinol" line is. But unless they have three lines, the top of the line Autobase/Autoclear, the "Lesinol" and the "value line" he is still talking apples and oranges.

I didn't look in my price sheets before commenting on the prices. The Autobase and Autoclear are actually a few bucks less than PPG 2021 or similar clears as well as Global. But we are only talking a few percent as I mentioned. Unless there is a discount on one of them and not the other most all brands are going to be very close. From a "lowly" S-W or Dupont clear all the way up to a Glasurit there is about a 50% difference.

But from PPG to DuPont to R-M to Sikkens there is just about 10% or so difference. So for your Sikkens to have such a big difference he would have to be talking about different product "qualities" or be giving a big discount. Either way it is apples and oranges.

Originally posted by more ambition than brains:
My shop is one of those $10,000.00 a month purchasers, and that is just paint & body materials.

We bulk order once a week direct to the vendor, product is drop shipped in bulk.
If we do a special, non-Internet emergency order, WE PAY MORE FOR PRODUCT!!!!!!

Our paint & materials inventory is $10,000.00 higher now than when we got two or three runs a day from the paint vendor.

Karl [/QB]Wal Karl, You may very well have some tidbits of purchasing that you didn't mention. If you don't then I just might be able to offer you some advice on how to maximize purchasing discounts and minimize inventory levels. Occasionally, the freebies can be really free. graemlins/beers.gif