If you remember my post from last Sat/Sun, I thought that you might like to know that the new lifters, fixed the noise. I ordered a set of Comp 812's, made by Johnson-Hylift, and although there is a little noise still, I can now actually enjoy driving the car.:D There is still a little noise, but I think that is to be expected, as the cam is a little lopey. I'm also thinking that the lifters that came with the cam kit, may have been defective. With the Crane lifters the engine seemed to run "ragged", and have a bit of a miss. With the Comp lifters, it's a whole different motor, got to go out and dump the oil and filter, then I'm going to fine tune the timing. It was set at 32* during break-in, need to bump it up to 38*.

Here is video of before and after.

before (http://media.putfile.com/engine-noise-19)


after (http://media.putfile.com/new-lifters)

Are those roller lifters?

Are those roller lifters?

No, hydraulic flat tappet.

If you remember my post from last Sat/Sun, I thought that you might like to know that the new lifters, fixed the noise. I ordered a set of Comp 812's, made by Johnson-Hylift, and although there is a little noise still, I can now actually enjoy driving the car.:D There is still a little noise, but I think that is to be expected, as the cam is a little lopey. I'm also thinking that the lifters that came with the cam kit, may have been defective. With the Crane lifters the engine seemed to run "ragged", and have a bit of a miss. With the Comp lifters, it's a whole different motor, got to go out and dump the oil and filter, then I'm going to fine tune the timing. It was set at 32* during break-in, need to bump it up to 38*.

Here is video of before and after.

before (http://media.putfile.com/engine-noise-19)


after (http://media.putfile.com/new-lifters)It still sounds like you have a mech. cam in there.

I must be missing something, because both videos sound the same to me. It's hard to tell if the cam is "lopey" when you are revving 1500 or so rpms. JMHO.

Just listened to it again on the other computer and sounds different from one computer to the next. The camcorder is not giving a true representation, and the sound from the camcorder is different then in person. I guess that you all will just have to trust me on this one. It is totally different then before, much queiter then before.

Dave. I remember your other post and it definatly sounds 100% better.:thumbsup:

Just listened to it again on the other computer and sounds different from one computer to the next. The camcorder is not giving a true representation, and the sound from the camcorder is different then in person. I guess that you all will just have to trust me on this one. It is totally different then before, much queiter then before.
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Glad to hear you got it fixed. :thumbsup:

Dave,
Just curious ... is there any way you can measure the od of the "bad" lifters ? The reason I ask is I am wondering if they were too small, causing the problem. I had that happen with a set of hydraulic rollers a few years ago. They were almost .002" smaller than they were supposed to be and made a racket.

COOL!! Glad to see that you got it fixed!

Dave,
Just curious ... is there any way you can measure the od of the "bad" lifters ? The reason I ask is I am wondering if they were too small, causing the problem. I had that happen with a set of hydraulic rollers a few years ago. They were almost .002" smaller than they were supposed to be and made a racket.
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Hey Bill,,
Be glad they were small :D
I recently did the lifter bores to .906 for a circle track deal & he went out & bought a set of "good deal" lifters from one of the mail order places.
Stuck a lifter on the second lap :angry:
Brought the block back mad as hell,,,, we checked the bores,, they were exactly .9058 - .9060
Measured his "good deal" lifters, they were .0005 to 0009 too big,,
He is no longer mad at me :D
He also does not buy "good deal" lifters any more,,

Dave,
Just curious ... is there any way you can measure the od of the "bad" lifters ? The reason I ask is I am wondering if they were too small, causing the problem. I had that happen with a set of hydraulic rollers a few years ago. They were almost .002" smaller than they were supposed to be and made a racket.

I've got some calipers, tommorrow I'll measure them up after work.

O.K., I couldn't wait, ya got me curious. I measured three of them, and all came out to .844. I probably wrote that wrong, but me and a set of calipers is a dangerous thing.

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Glad to here you got it fixed. :thumbsup:

Damn right you're glad I got it fixed. It was gonna be sitting outside your shop, in a cardboard box in another day or two, with my credit card number written in knuckle blood on the inside of the box.:D

>>"with my credit card number written in knuckle blood on the inside of the box."

LOL, what a great line.

It sounds a whole lot better on my computer, less of a metalic sound.
I's like to hear it idled down too.

very glad to hear your prob is solved. i can't tell the diff in sound from my computer either.hope all goes great from here on out. ray

If you remember my post from last Sat/Sun, I thought that you might like to know that the new lifters, fixed the noise. I ordered a set of Comp 812's, made by Johnson-Hylift, and although there is a little noise still, I can now actually enjoy driving the car.:D There is still a little noise, but I think that is to be expected, as the cam is a little lopey. I'm also thinking that the lifters that came with the cam kit, may have been defective. With the Crane lifters the engine seemed to run "ragged", and have a bit of a miss. With the Comp lifters, it's a whole different motor, got to go out and dump the oil and filter, then I'm going to fine tune the timing. It was set at 32* during break-in, need to bump it up to 38*.

Here is video of before and after.

before (http://media.putfile.com/engine-noise-19)


after (http://media.putfile.com/new-lifters)I tried a different set of speakers.It really does sound much better now.

Thanks for all the comments, I changed the oil today, got the timing set to 38* and took it for a long drive. It's very nice to just cruise down the road not having to listen to all the clanging.

Here's a video of the motor at Idle.

http://media.putfile.com/Engine-Idling

Oh yeah, sounds much better. Watching the idle video, I could really hear the difference. Glad it worked out for you.

Mike..do you see a lot of variance in lifters out there?

If you remember Nicks 632 deal.....in his case he had good Isky lifters, just a really poor machine shop building motor and not checking stuff. His ended up in the .0005-.0008 total clearance range on his .904 lifters. They stuck too and it ended up dropping a valve when pistons and stuff started getting cozy!

What do you use for rollers? I always shoot for the .0018-.002 range for most of them. Mine always look perfect when I look at them. I'm scared to go much tighter. not a good place to experiment with.

JIM

Glad to see you figured it out.

Mike..do you see a lot of variance in lifters out there?

If you remember Nicks 632 deal.....in his case he had good Isky lifters, just a really poor machine shop building motor and not checking stuff. His ended up in the .0005-.0008 total clearance range on his .904 lifters. They stuck too and it ended up dropping a valve when pistons and stuff started getting cozy!

What do you use for rollers? I always shoot for the .0018-.002 range for most of them. Mine always look perfect when I look at them. I'm scared to go much tighter. not a good place to experiment with.

JIM
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Hi Jim,
Probably not, gets real expensive if you be wrong,, :D
No, but I only use Isky rollers, Johnson or Stanadyne solids, nothing I don't know where it came from.
Apparently there is still some real crap out there comming from China & India I hear,,,
Most rollers are small & end up with extra clearance in stock bores.

I like .0013-,0018 with the larger on the big stuff but now you have to know what lifter is going in the hole.

Yea, aftermarket stuff just keeps getting better,,,, :sad:
I just pulled the pan on a circle track engine we did & the mains looked like crap.
The top half of the Clevite H bearings were never chamfered from the factory,,
Partly my fault as I missed it but damn,,,, you cannot trust anything anymore.
I checked the clearance, set it at where I wanted it & let Carl (my right hand & the only person in this shop that does any assembly & some machining except me) assemble the lower end.
It was apparently just touching as you could not feel it & it had acceptable thrust.
Upper half has lots of chamfer, lower half has none almost like a P bearing so in running it was pushing the crank into the upper bearings,,,

Damn I just love this stuff sometimes :angry:

Man, that's strange on the bearings. Seems like you can't trust anything these days.
Seems like it would have "clearanced" a chamfer on it by itself. Did crank live OK?

Almost all the rollers I've measured are like you said.....generally .0005 or even more smaller in diameter. Usually drop in stock holes fine. Nicks guy just missed or ignored that whole note that Dart sends with the blocks about bores being rough finished. You could still see the tooling marks in the bores...he never touched them.

There's a debate going with some guys I know that figure you ought to be able to run solid rollers down in the .0005-.0008 range like stock lifters. Our experience with Nicks is that it won't work. How tight have you ever tried them?

Sorry to hijack thread..if you would like we can move to another...but it's all still along the same lines.

Thnaks,

JIM

I'm just reading and learning here, ya'll go right ahead.

Man, that's strange on the bearings. Seems like you can't trust anything these days.
Seems like it would have "clearanced" a chamfer on it by itself. Did crank live OK?

Almost all the rollers I've measured are like you said.....generally .005 or even more smaller in diameter. Usually drop in stock holes fine. Nicks guy just missed or ignored that whole note that Dart sends with the blocks about bores being rough finished. You could still see the tooling marks in the bores...he never touched them.

There's a debate going with some guys I know that figure you ought to be able to run solid rollers down in the .0005-.0008 range like stock lifters. Our experience with Nicks is that it won't work. How tight have you ever tried them?

Sorry to hijack thread..if you would like we can move to another...but it's all still along the same lines.

Thnaks,

JIM
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I hope you meant .0005" small on the lifters unless you were talking clearance :)

A half thou total clearance on lifters,,, in their friggin dreams :sad:
I have never seen a stock lifter that tight.

I have run 842's at .0010-0012 but crap where do these guys come up with this stuff??
I suppose we could try it with bushings but you supply the engine :D
Biggest question is what are they trying to accomplish?

The 904's that stuck one were about .0006 to .0007 on the tightest ones.
They measured right at 9048-9052 & the lower limit on my bores was 9058

I have ran Titanium valves in bronze guides at .0006-.0008 intake but they are a "little" smaller in diameter than a lifter & do not have any of the side loading a lifter sees

Yea, the crank "chamfered" the bearings slightly .. :(
It really tore up the upper bearings, probably on the dyno.
Didn't bother the crank which is a good thing as it is an Oliver Billet.
It would really suck to screw up a $2800 crank,,,,,

OOps......gotta hate it when I slip a *0* like that!! Hey, what's a couple of decimal places among friends right? That's what Nicks guy figured huh?

Good news on crank.....

I think I'll stick with what works on my stuff! We had some guys who ".....used to run.....and they always.....". Maybe their memory is slipping or maybe their mic's were worn out...or maybe they.......



Thanks for the info.

JIM

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No, but I only use Isky rollers, Johnson or Stanadyne solids, nothing I don't know where it came from.

Comp Cam's, Isky's, Schneider's, and probably many others, are still being
manufactured by the original "Johnson" people. The company that at one time
manufactured the "Stanadynes" mentioned above sold out to the "Moresa" family of Mexico a number of years ago. So the more recent "Stanadynes" are coming out of Mexico. They may be good or bad, we'll stay with the
"Johnson's". Not a single flat cam (yet).

If you go to order a specific brand of lifters, it's very simple to place a call to Hylift-Johnson, and they'll be able to say who buy's there lifters. They have the 817's, hydraulics, and the 992's, solids. Still in the original configurations. Hylift is a "Division of Topline Automotive" and can be reached at a toll-free number, 800-441-1400. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. I want to add another word of "caution" here. He got a little "lucky" that he was able to "hit" the issue with some guidance here, but I will add that for the past number of years now we've known about similar noises caused by the "off-shore" inexpensive rockers flooding the marketplace. You should get in the habit of measuring the trunnion to stud clearances on assembly or at least pay attention to how "loose" they fit the studs. The studs should come in around .432"/.434" and the trunnion's should be in the .435" range. The off-shores will always wind up in the .439"/.440" area. If you have a stud on the low, .432", and a trunnion on the high, .440", you've got an issue. The noise caused by this scenario wil be more pronounced up in the valve cover area whereas the lifter issue will sound "deeper". I'll get into the "domestic" rocker mfrs. at another time! (Add) Try to make sure the trunnions are sitting on the majority of the "neck" of the stud and NOT the threaded portion if possible!