Im going to paint my 68 El Camino this coming summer and I need to know the right, correct primers and products to use the first time as paint products are so costly with two price increases every year. First of all I will be using PPG products as I always have in the past because thats what my local paint store carries and Im more familar with,at least I was in 1994-98. I will be stripping the Elky to bare metal either with the aircraft stripper or the POR-STRIP (liquid stripper for spray bottle) as I have used both of these products in the past before. My questions for you guys are these: After I completely finish stripping the Elky and going over it with sandpaper on a DA to remove any remaining paints and primer, what should I use for the very next step ? Something to neutralize the stripper? I will be using PPG basecoat/clearcoat. What is the first primer that I should use ? Epoxy primer DP-40 is what I always used in the past. Should I use more than one primer on the Elky ? The El Camino will be used as my Daily Driver but I want it to look nice and shiny and be well protected. Could you guys give me the PPG part numbers also so I get the right stuff ? I sure would appreciate this very much. I will be using a HVLP spray gun. So would I need a gallon of basecoat to spray 2 COATS on the entire El Camino, inside the bed and door jambs ? and maybe 5 qts. of clear, fiquring spraying 4-5 coats of clear on because after color sanding and buffing I would probably end up with 2 good coats of clear left to protect. I will have a budget of $800.- 900. to do this project with. Should that do it ? Thanks for any advice that you guys can give me. Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------------1968 Chevelle Malibu (Weekend Cruiser) 1968 El Camino (Daily Driver)

Mark, you have asked a boat load of questions. First off, Eric is the PPG guy so I will try to stay out of part numbers and particular recommendations.

In reading your plans there are a few things that pop out, first is stripping the whole car at once. I HIGHLY recommend against that. It is VERY overwhelming to see a bare metal car sitting there. It is very important to get it protected (especially during the winter months) and you can get into trouble REAL fast.

Do one panel at a time, strip it, prime it and go on to the next. I would even say, if the panels are pretty straight just do all the body work as well on each panel and get it blocked and primed before moving on to the next panel.

One gallon of paint "should" be enough. But again, I recommend getting at least a full quart more than "should" be enough. Innermix all the paint before you spray a drop. You DO NOT want to run out of paint, that is a DISASTER in most circumstances.

Epoxy primer over bare metal then a nice urethane primer for "surfacing" is one way. I have been a believer in etch primer then urethane, PPG's DX179 is a great etch.

As far as "neutralizing" the striper. My GOD, please follow any recommendations by the STRIPPER COMPANY, if they do not make this clear on the can, ask for tech sheets. If they do not make it clear there, call the company or switching to another brand may be the best way to go.

There are a number of different technologies out there when it comes to strippers. You REALLY need to follow the manufacturers guide lines.

And do keep the stripper out of seams and nooks and crannies. It is very easy to get stripper into these areas and not completly get it out, causing big problems down the road.

I have stripped cars before where I simply duct taped all the seams and that worked well.

Thanks Martin Sr for replying. As Ive said I stripped cars before using either the aircraft stripper or the POR-15 Strip and followed there instructions on the can. I wont be stripping the car to bare metal untill next spring or summer. I have to strip the car to bare metal because previous owners have TOO MANY COATS of primers and paints on it and theres already some crazing in some areas . I did this method before and never had any problems: I stripped entire car to bare metal, using double layers of good 3M masking tape at the seams or anywhere that I didnt want stripper to get on, stripped entire car (in warm weather) then DA the rest of the remaining primer left that the stripper would not get after a few applications. Then followed instuctions on back of can to neutralize the stripper. Then next day mask off and Epoxy prime entire car. My main questions are : When I did these jods then,the paint store carried DP 40,50 90 and now I hear they dont anymore. They have something like DPLF or something like that ? Is that as good as the DP"S were ? I need someone who is familar and up-to-date with all of this to chime in and maybe give me some PPG part numbers on the good epoxy primer and surface primer to use so I dont end up getting the wrong thing . And finally would I need to use a sealer after stripping entire car, then epoxy,then surface priming ?? Thanks Again Martin Sr for replying and YES maybe Sevt Chev will chime in with some PPG numbers for me. Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------------1968 Chevelle Malibu (Weekend Cruiser) 1968 El Camino (Daily Driver)

Sorry, I meant to say would I need to use a sealer after using a primer surfacer and all block sandind done ?? Thanks, Mark

Geez where to start, its a good thing Ive only had one beer!

Ok For your budget 800 bucks might be cutting it short, 900-1000 yes.
For clears you have a few choices. 2055, 2021 and 2042. If you are going with a light color like white, blues, greens then 2055 or 2021 is the ONLY ones to go with.
2042 will only look good on dark colors, as it has a REAL bad rep of yellowing on light colors, am not talking years down the road am talking within weeks.
If you are going with a dark color then 2042 will work also its a tad cheaper then 2055 or 2021.
But 2055 is my personal favorite, its darn near idiot proof, sprays like a dream buffs out great.

On my cars Id use 2055 hands down.

These clears today are a very high solids so the theory of spraying 5 coats is kinda stupid to me. I can see 3 coats but 5 is dumb.

Basecoats you have DBU or DBC. DBC is more user friendly. DBU requires a hardner were DBC doesnt. DBU is getting phased out of the PPG line, plus many of the newer colors are ONLY DBC formula. DBC is slightly more money. If you go with a metallic color DBU can be harder to spray and seems dirty.
I recommend DBC basecoats.
On a side note DBU requires a seprate reducer were the DBC uses the same as your primer and clear, making the total number products to buy less.

For primer surfacer, k38 or NCP271. PPG makes their bread and butter K36 primer but the stuff is canned sh!t. Ive always stuck to my guns about this product it sucks, it shrinks down, stay away from K36.

I made the mistake of using it on two cars I did. One was my mother's 2002 Chrylser LHS and the other was my 2001 300M. I put new hoods on both cars, i wanted them perfect so I applied 3 coats of k36 let it sit for about 2 weeks then block sand dry with 180, then reprimed again with 3 more coats. I finally blocked that down with 500 wet 2-3 months later. Anyway NOW Ive got small scratches coming back thou and it looks like sh!t. But the areas that got K38 nothing!!

The solids per volume is somewhere around 56% with k36, where K38 is 72-73 and NCP is 76 I believe. Picture filling your bathtub up with basketballs(which would be K36). Lots of wasted room or air pockets between those basketballs right??
Ok now fill that same tub up with golf balls(K38 or NCP). You have MUCH less wasted space, much more compact. Well that wasted space is solvent and solvent escapes out of the primer and when you have tons of wasted space within your primer you have room for shrinkage!!! Get the idea?

As for the epoxy, DPLF is NO where the same as the OLD DP which hasnt been around since 98-99. I dont like it on bare metal, on bare metal i think its sub par. Now am not saying its a bad product just not the best on bare metal.

When I went to my PPG certification classes back in May, both of the reps said for best results you need treat the metal prior to DPLF because of corrosion problems. Ive had it bite my in the arse twice, since then stopped using DPLF on bare metal and guess what no more problems.

A cheaper and from what I hear(even from the reps) a better epoxy then DPLF is EPX900 which is in the industrial line. i have not used this product but do hear is better then DPLF and cheaper as well.

What i suggest and so did the PPG reps was first apply 1 med to light coat of DX1791 etch primer.
Dx1791 is a transparent greenish primer, so DONT apply this product to get coverage. Basically you cant see the stuff on the metal, you can but its more like a haze.
If you apply too much dx1791 you can have adhesion problems so all you need is 1 med to light coat.
Also allow this product plenty of flash time, if you apply any product over it too soon it fisheyes or does something that appears very close to fisheyes.
Ask me HOW I know that!! graemlins/clonk.gif
Id wait atleast 30 mins before appling any product over dx1791.

As for the sealer. If ANY paint rep or paint supply house any one says that sealer is a MUST is a friggin moron!! Plain and simple. Over sanded and cured primer surfacer you DONT need a sealer. Most of the sealers in the PPG line are just converted primer surfacers!!!
As of May 2004 PPG had only ONE sealer that was NOT based off a surfacer and that was DAS3085(?) its called V-seal I know that much.

The ONLY time a sealer is really recommended is when paint BLACK in DBC or DBU. The reason is because the carbon in the black causes it to dry slow. When you dry slow you give the solvents in that product a chance to work into the product it was applied over. The sealer acts as a barrier helping prevent those solvents working into the product below it.
But this ONLY happens with black. If you look on a can of black basecoat 9700 or 9800 it will state reduce up to 50% unlike the normal 100%.

What color are you planning on shooting?? Id plan of MORE then 2 coats of base, depends on the color. But then again that also means jack. Take GM's indigo blue, in DBC it WILL take you roughly 6-7 coats for coverage. But take an ALMOST indentical dark blue from chysler the only difference is the pearl and you get coverage in 2 coats and the 3 coat is for your metallics.

Now that am lost and hopefully you are as well smile.gif I think its bedtime.
If you need more answers just ask more questions.

P.s
as for prices
roughly 150 for a gallon of 2055 or 2021
130-140 for 2042
75 bucks for the harnder for those clears
k38 and NCP gallon around 120
harnder will be around 40-50 bucks
Gallon of DPLF is around 110
Hardner for DPLF is 40 buck
A gallon of DT reducer which will be used in ALL of those products is around 40 bucks as well.

Also on a side note with DT reducer since its getting cold outside you tend to stick with a colder reducer. But DO NOT let the rep talk you into DT860 reducer. It will flash off WAY too soon and with basecoats it can FLASH off before it even its the car!!! making spraying a metallic darn near impossible.
I can get prove that statement.
Stick with Dt870...Eric

Thanks-A-TON Eric, for all that information that you just gave me. graemlins/beers.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif I really appreciate that very much. Do you think that it would be better in the long run to first apply 1 med. to light coat of DX1791 Etch-Primer let that sit for a day or till evening then spray with EPX900 Epoxy-Primer? How much quanity would I need to buy to spray 1 med. to lght coat of DX1791 Etch-Primer on the entire El Camino ? I was thinking of painting the Elky with either a (69 Chevelle color) Lemans Blue Poly or a (68 Chevelle color) Tripolli Turqoise . Why did they quit making DP ? Especially if it was better than DPLF ? What color Primer should I stay with ,with the above mentioned topcoat colors ? Do you think if I sprayed 3 full coats of 2055 clear and after color sanding and buffing that Id end up with say 2 good coats left on to protect ? I"ll ask you later about what half mask and cartridges I was going to use to do the job. Thanks Alot Again Eric, Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------------1968 Chevelle Malibu (Weekend Cruiser) 1968 El Camino (Daily Driver)

When should the DT Reducer be used. I've started spraying the DPLF and the K38 and have not used any reducer. How should it be mixed with the other products and for what reason.

I really do believe that spraying etch then following that up with DPLF would be best in the long run. As for etch then EPX900 I dont know you would have to look on tech sheet to see if they are compatible, as NOT all etches can be coated with epoxy.

Dx1791 mixes in a 1:1 ratio. You can buy 1qt or 1 gallon of DX1791, but a qt will do because once mixed you will have 2 qts of RTS(Ready To Spray)product. 1qt will be more then plenty.

As for spraying Dx1791 then the next day appling epoxy, not a good idea. Dx1791 NEEDS to be scuffed and reapplied if allowed to sit for over 24 hrs. You could do it this way but you would be doing the same step twice.

The longest I would let it sit is a few hrs but after 24hrs you NEED to scuff and reaplly.
They stopped making DP because it no longer meet the current VOC regulations set forth by the Gov. It contained too much bad stuff, so they came with with DPLF instead, LF stands for Lead Free.
When you add Dt reducer to DPLF you change it from a primer to a sealer and it fact even change its corrosion fighting ablilities. I would NOT reduce dplf when used on bare metal.
K38 and K36 are both a light gray primer. NCP 271 is a dark gray and 272 or 270 cant recall is a med green color.
K38 has no recommendation for DT reducer, but you can add a very small amount to thin it, but I would stick with NO Dt reducer with K38.

K36 you have the choice of DT reducer or no dt reducer. I normally mixed K36 5:1:1/2. Without Dt reducer in K36 you have a 30 min potlife which very short, so I add a small amount of Dt reducer to extend the potlife out.

Potlife is how long you have to spray the product before it starts to cure.

For the clear its hard to say what you will come up with. When I went to my PPG class in May we tested HOW much clear we each apply. We used the same style of gun we use at the shop a Sata RP. I ran roughly 3 mils per coat.
Another guy who uses a OMX applied 7 or 8 mils per coat, so it hard to say.

But with 3 good coats of 2055 you will have more then enough for sanding and buffing.

For buffing a show car I would start out with 1200 grit and cut it up. then let it sit for a day, this will help any solvents escape out of the clear. Then sand again with 1500 grit.
After 1500 grit I used a da sander with 3000 grit. I used a 3M paper called Trizact, its some awesome stuff. On dark color the stuff is the bomb, its the only way to fly. No more small little scrathes, speeds up the buffing process as the 3000 grit paper starts to buff the surface back.
I believe eastwoods sells this.
But any body supply store should carry it, it cost about 3-4 bucks and disc but a disc will last about half a car.

Thanks Again Eric for all the info. Its very much APPRECIATED . Mark