Another one of my buddies (10 second street car club) has a 70 Nova with a 540. The short block is by Shafiroff. He is using Edelbrock oval port heads (my old ones) that he had “ported” locally. Cam is a Comp XR292 which is 254/260 .660/.667 110 lobe sep. (Another item I sold him) Intake is a Dart single plane (again my old one) and he is using a Holley 950HP carb. CR is 9.8:1. I believe the headers are 2” Hookers. 3.5” DR. Gas X with Hooker Aero Chamber muffs.

TH400 with 10 Continental conv, along with a 4.11 Ford 9”. Runs the 315 M/T drag radials. Car is mini tubbed with ladder bars.

Best ET so far is a 10.68 @ 126+

The car has never seen a trailer.

Anyway, he wants to step up to the low 10’s. He is considering different heads and a different cam.

Shafiroff says to use Dart Pro 1 335’s with a cam in the .700 lift range.
His builder (did the heads) says use the AFR 335 CNC heads, and also a cam in the .700 lift range.

I think either head will work great, but maybe the AFR 315 would also be a good choice. I don’t think he needs .700 valve lift…..and I think he will need a Dominator and new manifold. (Neither which will be in his budget for awhile)

Would like some suggestions from you 540 guys. Keeping in mind that this is a pure street car.

BTW….this is all because my other buddy with the Chevelle has been spanking him at the track lately…..and he can’t stand it! He also realizes that he left a lot on the table with that 540.

Ron

My specs...
AFR 335 full CNC ported heads, Super Victor intake, King Demon 1095 (4500 flange) carb, Comp custom solid roller 295/304, 266/271 @ .050", .763"/.741" lift @ 1.7 ratio, 112 degree installed @ 107.
Very streetable...driven most every weekend. CR is a true 11.0
Remember.... the big cube motors need large lift to full and empty those large bore cylinders.

Dont use anything smaller than a 335 head, something on the order of .250 - .260 @ .050 , lift limited to practicality for a street application ...........700 or so..............use a Super Victor and at least a 1050 Dom ( 2 circuit ) good ignition ( crank trigger ) bump up the comp a tad ( at least 10.5/1 ). This is a good foundation for a powerful and streetable 540. May work well with your current cam. Good luck................and let us no the results. BTW.........the headers have to go .........need 2.125. Some may disagree but.........thats their opinion.

Another one of my buddies (10 second street car club) has a 70 Nova with a 540. The short block is by Shafiroff. He is using Edelbrock oval port heads (my old ones) that he had “ported” locally. Cam is a Comp XR292 which is 254/260 .660/.667 110 lobe sep. (Another item I sold him) Intake is a Dart single plane (again my old one) and he is using a Holley 950HP carb. CR is 9.8:1. I believe the headers are 2” Hookers. 3.5” DR. Gas X with Hooker Aero Chamber muffs.

TH400 with 10 Continental conv, along with a 4.11 Ford 9”. Runs the 315 M/T drag radials. Car is mini tubbed with ladder bars.

Best ET so far is a 10.68 @ 126+

The car has never seen a trailer.

Anyway, he wants to step up to the low 10’s. He is considering different heads and a different cam.

Shafiroff says to use Dart Pro 1 335’s with a cam in the .700 lift range.
His builder (did the heads) says use the AFR 335 CNC heads, and also a cam in the .700 lift range.

I think either head will work great, but maybe the AFR 315 would also be a good choice. I don’t think he needs .700 valve lift…..and I think he will need a Dominator and new manifold. (Neither which will be in his budget for awhile)

Would like some suggestions from you 540 guys. Keeping in mind that this is a pure street car.

BTW….this is all because my other buddy with the Chevelle has been spanking him at the track lately…..and he can’t stand it! He also realizes that he left a lot on the table with that 540.

Ron The AFR 325 with the CNC chamber shouldn't break the bank. He could always peddle the Edlebrock Heads to soften the hit on the pocketbook and he needs to go to 2 1/8" headers too. Those two items should lower the E.T.s and add about four or five MPH. He still might have trouble beating the Chevelle if he ever puts in 4.10 gears.

What RPM are we planning on turning this engine? The E-brocks are not bad heads and do respond to porting quite well. If the flow numbers were known after the port work it may just take a camshaft change to wake the thing up.

What RPM are we planning on turning this engine? The E-brocks are not bad heads and do respond to porting quite well. If the flow numbers were known after the port work it may just take a camshaft change to wake the thing up.

Right now he shifts at 6-6200. but I would think 6500 would be a good range after the changes.

You notice that I put "ported" in quotes. The shop that did the work gave him flow numbers for "similar" heads.....so my guess is that they didn't flow his after porting.

2 1/8 headers sound like a must for 540's.

Thanks for the input.

ron

I think for a street motor, the 335's are a good choice. A smaller port will help at low rpms. Mine has a ported set of dart 325's and I shift at 7500. My cam is a .748/.748 4/7 swap cam with on a 112 also installed at 107. Granted my compression is higher at about 14-1. I also have 2 1/4 headers with a 4" collector. My manifold is a dart single with a Pro Systems 1050.

Right now he shifts at 6-6200. but I would think 6500 would be a good range after the changes.

You notice that I put "ported" in quotes. The shop that did the work gave him flow numbers for "similar" heads.....so my guess is that they didn't flow his after porting.

2 1/8 headers sound like a must for 540's.

Thanks for the input.

ron

Ron,
With the flow numbers and all the particulars on the combo the cam can be changed to fix the problem. The cross sectional area of those Ebrocks will support that CID at 6500 rpm with no problem. If he was turning the engine above 7K then it would need heads.

Chris

go with AFR 335 cnc they are the best heads!!!!!!

Ron,
With the flow numbers and all the particulars on the combo the cam can be changed to fix the problem. The cross sectional area of those Ebrocks will support that CID at 6500 rpm with no problem. If he was turning the engine above 7K then it would need heads.

Chris

Chris,

I'm curious,

The stock Edel ovals flow approx 300 cfm intake @ .700 and approx 200cfm @ .700 exh if I remember correctly. Not all that good.

So you are saying that even though they are oval, ported properly, they will do fine with 540 CID and 6500 rpm? So what would he be looking at for flow numbers to do that? And I realize that peak flow numbers don't tell the whole story.

My 496 has barely much more cam 260/266 .670/.680 110 same Comp XR series, less CID, and what I feel are very good heads (AFR 305 CNC) and it flat smokes his combo. Better by 7 tenths and 7 mph.

I'm confused. Explain please?

I honestly thought with the extra cubes, but not as good of heads and induction, that he would have been close to low 10's already. I struggle to believe that it's that under cammed.

Thanks,

Ron

Ron, Harold picked out my present cam, his 714/690 lift for my race only 498 but told me its same cam he recommended for hot street 540's! I ordered this cam from Steve at Screwnati by Harold's recommendation. Carb and heads way to small for a 540! I agree with the others here about 325/335 heads. Rowdy runs 1100 Pro-Systems carb on his street 66' Chevelle with his 540 and I think AFR 335's! I'm waiting for Rowdy to harness all that power of his with some suspension that can handle it-Go Rowdy! In summary a 540 needs to breath! Hope this helps! Glad to hear of progress with your Nova!

Bob

Ron, Harold picked out my present cam, his 714/690 lift for my race only 498 but told me its same cam he recommended for hot street 540's! I ordered this cam from Steve at Screwnati by Harold's recommendation. Carb and heads way to small for a 540! I agree with the others here about 325/335 heads. Rowdy runs 1100 Pro-Systems carb on his street 66' Chevelle with his 540 and I think AFR 335's! I'm waiting for Rowdy to harness all that power of his with some suspension that can handle it-Go Rowdy! In summary a 540 needs to breath! Hope this helps! Glad to hear of progress with your Nova!

Bob

Well,
My buddy DOES NOT HAVE the budget for the big carb and manifold. He just doesn't.
Sounds like the cam needs to be bigger.
I also think the heads he has need to go. But Cstraubs comments contradict all the rest here. So I am confused by his comments.

One problem....the Edel heads are 110 CC and the AFR's or equiv are all around 120cc give or take. So he will need the heads milled. And still won't get back to 110cc.....but as far as I'm concerned....the CR won't be important. Witness our other buddies Chevelle at 8.5:1 with a 502 in the mid tens.......

Anyway, thanks for the Nova comments....I'm still surprised....and need to back those number up....maybe the track was 100 ft short that night.....ok, both my buddies cars were off the same night.

Spanking them....is FUN!

Ron

Ron, just curious. Maybe a little off topic, but is that XR292 Comp roller a cast core roller? And if so what spring pressures is he running to keep it alive? How many miles do you suppose are on that cam?

Chris,

I'm curious,

The stock Edel ovals flow approx 300 cfm intake @ .700 and approx 200cfm @ .700 exh if I remember correctly. Not all that good.

So you are saying that even though they are oval, ported properly, they will do fine with 540 CID and 6500 rpm? So what would he be looking at for flow numbers to do that? And I realize that peak flow numbers don't tell the whole story.

My 496 has barely much more cam 260/266 .670/.680 110 same Comp XR series, less CID, and what I feel are very good heads (AFR 305 CNC) and it flat smokes his combo. Better by 7 tenths and 7 mph.

I'm confused. Explain please?

I honestly thought with the extra cubes, but not as good of heads and induction, that he would have been close to low 10's already. I struggle to believe that it's that under cammed.

Thanks,

Ron

Ron,
Those Rovals with some port work are going to be in the 300cc range on the intatake side. 300 cc's will support 540 CID to 6500 no problem.

The choice of head now for 540's to 557's in boat engines are 310 canfields and 315 AFR. These heads give these engine tremedous throttle reponse and have no problem running these engines to 6000 rpm and staying there for 10 to 15 minute runs.

The Ebrock is not my first choice of head but in your post you have made it clear the guy is on a budget. I don't feel the cam in the engine is what it needs based on my past experience camming some 502's and 540's running these heads, but with the hand ported comment I would not know until I saw th flow numbers on these heads.

Those 572's that I cammed and were dyno'd had OEM 990's with 325cc intake runners. They shut the dyno down at 6000 but the engines were still making HP.

You guy's goal is not that far off since he is mid 10's now and wants low tens. If he wanted low 9's then a major rethink of parts would be needed.

Just a note volume doesn't win races velocity does. To many times we over head an engine and the ability to rpm and accerate is hampered or slowed.

Chris,
How does volume, or let say cross sectional area relate with flow bench numbers when picking a head? Add in RPM and HP goals.

What factors do your use/are most important when selecting a head.

You seem to use runner volume/cross sectional area as a primary driver.

When/does measurements on a flow bench come into play?



Also, what base cam specs would you use for that engine rather than the one he has if he kept the heads?
What are your thoughts on "undercamming" and engine with "big" heads.

Chris,
How does volume, or let say cross sectional area relate with flow bench numbers when picking a head? Add in RPM and HP goals.

What factors do your use/are most important when selecting a head.

You seem to use runner volume/cross sectional area as a primary driver.

When/does measurements on a flow bench come into play?



Also, what base cam specs would you use for that engine rather than the one he has if he kept the heads?
What are your thoughts on "undercamming" and engine with "big" heads.

Doug,
Going to lunch. . .but I will answer these after I get back. You know I cammed Jeremy's SBC years ago in that Nova. How do you feel it runs for a 355? Shaw also runs ovals on some of those pull truck engines he does. So we have OEM ported runners supporting 470 Inchs to over 8000 rpm and you know how they run.

Chris

I guess how do you know at what velocity (caused by a combination of CID, RPM, etc) the air will be too fast and go sonic (maybe that is an incorrect statement?).

I've dynoed 310 Canfield and the Holley ovals I have on my car on a 502 back to back. On the dyno, they made about identical low RPM torque and the ovals (these were out of the box, I did some bowl and chamber work on mine) were down 20-30 HP up top and took a dive when we got to higher (6500+) RPM. I wish I went with the 310's on my engine, but I have so little in my ovals I had to go that way due to budget, and the final combo was a lot wilder than I first anticipated when I got the ovals.

You ever mess with the new inertia engine dynos yet? I would expect that might tell some tales about "acceleration properties" of an engine.

Ron, just curious. Maybe a little off topic, but is that XR292 Comp roller a cast core roller? And if so what spring pressures is he running to keep it alive? How many miles do you suppose are on that cam?

It's a cast core roller. It is the one I bought but didn't use.......
I don't know what spring pressure he has, and neither does he. The guy who reworked his heads was told what the cam was, and he picked the springs.

I guess if he upgrades things, he will find out if the cam is ok!
He is using Crower Hippo roller lifters.

Ron

Ron,
Those Rovals with some port work are going to be in the 300cc range on the intatake side. 300 cc's will support 540 CID to 6500 no problem.

The choice of head now for 540's to 557's in boat engines are 310 canfields and 315 AFR. These heads give these engine tremedous throttle reponse and have no problem running these engines to 6000 rpm and staying there for 10 to 15 minute runs.

The Ebrock is not my first choice of head but in your post you have made it clear the guy is on a budget. I don't feel the cam in the engine is what it needs based on my past experience camming some 502's and 540's running these heads, but with the hand ported comment I would not know until I saw th flow numbers on these heads.

Those 572's that I cammed and were dyno'd had OEM 990's with 325cc intake runners. They shut the dyno down at 6000 but the engines were still making HP.

You guy's goal is not that far off since he is mid 10's now and wants low tens. If he wanted low 9's then a major rethink of parts would be needed.

Just a note volume doesn't win races velocity does. To many times we over head an engine and the ability to rpm and accerate is hampered or slowed.

Thanks. I guess my suggestion to him about the AFr 315 was a good one.
Unfortunately, the whole porting story on his Edel heads is cloudy at best. I would think that it would take someone familiar with those heads to do them right. And who knows, maybe they now flow worse than stock?

He has watched both my car and our other friends Chevelle run dang hard with the AFR CNC chamber 305's. Hence his desire to upgrade. He does indeed plan to sell the Edels.

Interesting stuff, thanks for the responses.

Ron

You ever mess with the new inertia engine dynos yet? I would expect that might tell some tales about "acceleration properties" of an engine.


Interesting as my 498 was dynoed on an inertia engine dyno. Pretty cool. A full throttle run from 4000 to 6500 takes 2.91 seconds.

Ron

Chris,
How does volume, or let say cross sectional area relate with flow bench numbers when picking a head? Add in RPM and HP goals.

What factors do your use/are most important when selecting a head.

You seem to use runner volume/cross sectional area as a primary driver.

When/does measurements on a flow bench come into play?



Also, what base cam specs would you use for that engine rather than the one he has if he kept the heads?
What are your thoughts on "undercamming" and engine with "big" heads. We changed over from a 540" motor with 13-1 compression and heads that flowed around 390 CFM @ .800 lift to a 598" motor with 13.7-1 compression and bigger "AFR 357 CNC" that only showed 377 CFM on the same flow bench. The big motor is a good 7-8 MPH faster and 5-6 tenths quicker with the same gears in the same car and in worse weather. This tells me that flow means little except maybe the flowbench isn't able to keep up on the big head and perhaps horsepower doesn't know about flow numbers. A really good head porter told me, and i quote, "flow don't mean s**t".

Doug.
Starting from scratch I would calculate the needed cross section and valve area needed for the build to reach customers goals. These are all mathmatical formulas.
By closely matching the runner volume to the 100% of fill rate at the engines rpm you will have an engine that will respond quite quickly IF cammed correctly through out the low mid and max rpm range. If you over head the engine and don't cam correctly you have an engine that will be sluggish for the most part at the lower and mid rpm while finally finding "itself" in the higher rpm. This makes for a narrow powerband engine that is peaky. Now for a car that runs within a 1000 rpm power range at peak. . .this set up will work.

No factor is more important then another. You are building an engine to accomplish some kind of goal. An engine is a combination of parts that come together to make 1. To build that combination you need to consider a combination of factors to be able to achieve this. Only 1 engine per race is top dog. . .its also the best combination of the day.

Volume/Cross Section/ Valve Diameter are all pieces of the puzzle that have to be taken into account.

Flowbench is wonderful tool that can tell alot more then just flow numbers. How good is the valve job. . .where is the port dead. . .how dirty is the air. . .where will see power jumps in the rpm range.. . .many different things.

If I were running the box stock heads on this engine from Ebrock the cam would look like the following:
.760/.719
253/261
103/113

Under camming is a crutch that works. With an engine that is way overheaded you can under cam the engine to optimize the combo. Example: Deep Free Divers before they go under water take a series of very short "gulps" of air to pack their lungs. A short duration moderate lift cam profile will do the same. The lifter velocity on short duration cam will quickly open and accerate the lifter which in turn lifts the valve off the seat quickly and starts the "valve path". The valve path is a short run to fill the cylinder because of the shear volume of the runner. The lobe quickly closes the valve traping the cylinder fill in the cylinder and then the compression stroke can do its business. These engines again properly cammed can make good power. Case in point I did a 509 with a set of box stock canfields 310's. Max rpm was 5400 rpm and goal was to make 525HP with a 8.2 to 1 engine.
Camshaft
620/570 (1.8 ratio on both)
222/226
112
Made 539HP @ 5300 rpm

Does any of this help?

Just curious, 253/.760 is pretty agressive. Would that be with a 1.8 rocker? Is that someone's existing lobe?

Just curious, 253/.760 is pretty agressive. Would that be with a 1.8 rocker? Is that someone's existing lobe?

The cam in the engine now is 254/260 .660/.666 110
With the exception of lift, it seems quite close to Chris's suggestion.
1.8 rockers would put it close to .700 lift.

I have no idea where it's installed.

Ron

One easy and inexpensive thing to try would be 1.8 rockers on the intake side.(or both sides).

I can't help but believe a better set of heads(310-320cc) with 1.8's on this thing would wake it up a bunch. It's all speculation without knowing what the heads that are on there flow, but that would be the direction I would go. If the heads flow decent, 340+ I think they would be ok. But it's hard for me to believe that something that flows over 350 cfm wouldn't be a better choice for a 540.

I know you guys don't put much stock into what Gary in NY is doing, but he has a pretty healthy combo for his 540 street engines that he says will run on 89 octane I believe? Worth looking at. .700+ hyd. roller, 320cc heads, like 9.5:1 compression. Over 730 HP on his dyno.

The cam in the engine now is 254/260 .660/.666 110
With the exception of lift, it seems quite close to Chris's suggestion.
1.8 rockers would put it close to .700 lift.

I have no idea where it's installed.

Ron

Ron,
Close at .050" but what about duration at the seat, at .100" ,.200".

Here are 4 lobes with 248 @ .050 but note the seat and .200" duration:
Seat/.200 tappet
299/145
301/165
306/159
316/150

.050" was a tappet height that cam mfg agreed on years ago to market by. Again it is only PART of the equation. The entire lobe area is what utilizes the flow not just .050"

Just curious, 253/.760 is pretty agressive. Would that be with a 1.8 rocker? Is that someone's existing lobe?

Yes to get into the that area it would take a 1.8ish.

Ron,
Close at .050" but what about duration at the seat, at .100" ,.200".

Here are 4 lobes with 248 @ .050 but note the seat and .200" duration:
Seat/.200 tappet
299/145
301/165
306/159
316/150

.050" was a tappet height that cam mfg agreed on years ago to market by. Again it is only PART of the equation. The entire lobe area is what utilizes the flow not just .050"

I don't have time at work here, but I'll look up the lobe specs this evening.

XR292R
292/298 advertised
176/181 .200"
110 lobe sep

XR292R
292/298 advertised
176/181 .200"
110 lobe sep

And are these good numbers?
Ron

And are these good numbers?
Ron

I spun it up quickly on the fly yesterday and did not right everything down. Let me take care of some customers this morning and I will take a look.

And are these good numbers?
Ron

Ideally it wants the following:
Intake/Exhaust
306/317
181/183

So, the cam you have is similar in duration at .050" it is off on seat duration by 14 degrees on intake and 19 degrees on exhaust. The .200 is off by 5 degrees on intake and 2 degrees on exhaust.

What's the old saying "Can't judge a book by it's cover". . .well 50 numbers are the cover. The cam that is in it is not what it wants.

Ideally it wants the following:
Intake/Exhaust
306/317
181/183

So, the cam you have is similar in duration at .050" it is off on seat duration by 14 degrees on intake and 19 degrees on exhaust. The .200 is off by 5 degrees on intake and 2 degrees on exhaust.

What's the old saying "Can't judge a book by it's cover". . .well 50 numbers are the cover. The cam that is in it is not what it wants.

I have to admit that you are over my head at this point.
And I think I'll tell my buddy he is on his own.
Too many choices for me to help.
But thanks!

Ron

BlazerBob,
You're right on with my 540 parts. The flow #'s on the AFRcnc'd335's are:
Lift......Intake/Exhaust
0.0500.....47.1/32.7
0.2000..156.8/129.9
0.3000..239.9/190.5
0.4000..305.3/244.4
0.5000..354.6/272.8
0.6000..387.1/282.6
0.7000..398.4/289.1
0.8000..405.9/293.6

My cam is a special grind Isky Solid Roller with Red Zone tall rollers
The specs as listed and in () as measured:
Adv Dur....... 300/306 (299.4/306.9)
.050 Dur...... 267/273 (267.2/272.4)
.200 Dur.................... (185.3/188.1)
Lobe Lift..... .420/.420..(.42231/.42077)
Valve Lift.... .714/.714..(.71793/.71532)
LSA...............112.......(111.6)
ICL................108.......(107.62)

Now, my ACTUAL lift #'s, with consideration to T&D shaft mount roller rockers
Indexed Ratio 1.715:1
Valve lift..... .720/.720..(.72426/.72162)
Lash/Net Lift .024/.024..(.700/.697)

ProSystems 1100 cfm Dominator
Victor (port matched)
Headers; 2 1/8"primaries X 3 1/2" collector

Dyno Peaks
753.8 HP @ 6700rpm
673.4 TQ @ 5200rpm

15-20 minutes break-in/shakedown
1st pull, no tuning

BOOOYAH

P.S. The engine is in the garage on an engine stand as I type.....No tragic story though, just want to replace the pan gasket. Did it once in the car, not an easy task with the Milodon 7 quart kick-out pan, stud mounted. Leaked like a 90 year old on a prune diet (deep fried in Olestra). It'll be back in this weekend, it's gonna be used in an Applebee's commercial next week.

Forgot to add my 2 cents
I would think that another drawback with running the oval/rovals is the limited choice of a suitable intake manifold, unless off course, you can match the heads to a rectangle port manifold.

I know you guys don't put much stock into what Gary in NY is doing, but he has a pretty healthy combo for his 540 street engines that he says will run on 89 octane I believe? Worth looking at. .700+ hyd. roller, 320cc heads, like 9.5:1 compression. Over 730 HP on his dyno.[/QUOTE]

Just want to bring up a few points here. The C.R.'s in all the H.R. units are built with the same pistons, SRP's #142998's and "customized" to get to the 9.75:1 number. We use a Comp Cam's "stick" with the following "lobes",
#CB 3116B/3117B-HR114, which gives us 252/262 @.050 and with 1.8 rocker's on the intakes gives us .720” lift at the valve and 1.7 rocker's on the exhausts gives us .714” at the valve. The cams are installed where we decide, mostly based on previous tests. They come in between 730HP/750HP @ 6300 RPM with ALL above 700 Ft.Lbs. @ 4800 RPM average. I've said it before here, these are "killer" maintenance-free units, with ALL the timing in "up front"! No tuning, just change the plugs once in a while.

As to the fuel, we continue to "follow" a pair of these units for 2 years now and both customers "drive" on 89 and "race" on 93! No problems, so far,
whatsoever.

I'm not going to get into the cylinder head area here, but Jbird knows. All I will say about the heads is we are able to spend no more than about 2 to 3 hours total on them before they're ready to use, and most of that time is "checking" everything. And NONE have any CNC options. This becomes a "cost effective" issue with the buyer! Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

(Add) They all have 2.125" primaries on these units.

P.S. The 540's built on this specific platform do NOT like any runners over the 320 cc area, because of the specific C.R., but do require 375 CFM @ .700" and 275 CFM @ .700" also. We confirmed this recently on a 360 cc head (change) and literally "blew" the torque "out the window", to about 660+ Ft.Lbs. @ 5000, even though it gave us a bit more HP, +10 to be precise. I can't in good conscience deliver these type units any more under the 700 Ft.Lb. number. Any "solid" roller unit (540"), pump-gas, we can deliver above 725 Torque and about 800 HP. These require closer to 10.75:1 however, and these will not "drive" on 89. They will drive on 91 and race on 93, but it's got to be "decent" fuel and we aren't sure we have that available at the "nozzle" here. Most of these units run the 100 unleaded. We do have that at the pumps here.

Oh boy....almost too much here for me to comprehend.......

Although I'm beginning to see a pattern.

540 CI on pump gas needs a good head, but no more than a 320c intake runner. And flow numbers do count.

Seems like the AFR 315 would be an excellent choice (for us out of the box guys...of which there are many btw)

CR of 9.5-10.0 is a wise choice.

And would have to assume a great carb and manifold a must as well.

I don't discount anyones knowledge or results, I try to absorb them all. However, Chris's statement that the Edel roval heads are adequate given the right cam....elude me.

Look, my friends 540 is 7 tenths and 7mph behind my 498....and given the 540 numbers tossed around, tells me he might be lucky to be making 600hp. And I struggle to think all he needs is a simple cam change.

Our cars are nearly the same weight btw.

I told him to talk to AFR and get a reccomendation for both the cam and heads. The carb and manifold can come later....as can the bigger headers.

For fuel, who cares if you can drive around on 89,,,,,these aren't daily drivers...
We get 92 best here in Oregon.....and that's what I race on.

It's too bad he didn't start with the correct combo...but I bet he can get there from here....and his car will fly.


Hopefully he will join TC and log in and comment.

Ron

540 CI on pump gas needs a good head, but no more than a 320c intake runner. And flow numbers do count.
Seems like the AFR 315 would be an excellent choice (for us out of the box guys...of which there are many btw)
CR of 9.5-10.0 is a wise choice.

Gotta disagree on those points, Ron.
The 335 AFR heads and a true 11:1 CR does very well on the street and on pump gas in my '70s 540.
With your recommendations outlined above, it sounds to me like you enjoy your buddy's car running slower than yours. :p

Our 534" used Dart Pro 1 325`s.
The Ultradyne Hyd roller was 255 @ .050 with .650 lift 110 sep. Single pattern cam. Set the lifters on the motor stand and never touched them again.
Spring pressure was very low too. So no issues there either, still ran up to 6800 RPM going over @ 136 MPH

Made great mid-range torque. 93 octane, never tried any less.

Gotta disagree on those points, Ron.
The 335 AFR heads and a true 11:1 CR does very well on the street and on pump gas in my '70s 540.
With your recommendations outlined above, it sounds to me like you enjoy your buddy's car running slower than yours. :p


Hey, I didn't get a "harumph" from that guy over there! (Blazing saddles)

Bill,
If you read through the whole post, the recommendations have run the gammut. (SP?) Everything from the Edels are adequate to you need a 335 CNC head. See why this is confusing?
I realize that a 540 is a big engine....after all the $$$ I spent on my 498, I should have gone 540. (Making my 454 block a 4 bolt splayed cap deal raised the cost up to where I could have bought the aftermarket 540 block)
But who knew?
Sounds like my cam/head combo wouldn't work on a 540 though.

I need him to call AFR and Mike Lewis and get some solid ideas.
As far as 11;1...he would need to change pistons, and that isn't the goal here. I'll have my engine guy chime in as well....he didn't do to bad for me. (I picked all my parts, he had me change the cam, barely, and said I needed a dominator and manifold to match) Quick Fuel 1050 and a Brodix HV2001 which no one here seems to run....but the engine masters challenge folks did!

As far as would I like to keep him behind me? Well, no, I'd be tickled if he made the changes and spanked me. There is no rivalry between us folks, just fun.

Ever hear of the computer game "You don't know Jack"? I realize that I don't know Jack about 540's. In fact, I'm not sure why my 498 runs so good....

Appreciate the input as always.

Ron

Our 534" used Dart Pro 1 325`s.
The Ultradyne Hyd roller was 255 @ .050 with .650 lift 110 sep. Single pattern cam. Set the lifters on the motor stand and never touched them again.
Spring pressure was very low too. So no issues there either, still ran up to 6800 RPM going over @ 136 MPH

Made great mid-range torque. 93 octane, never tried any less.


And who can argue with your 9.97 performance.
Yet another combo that works, or worked....who knows what the new owner is up to????
I'm still bummed that the Camaro is gone to us T Chevelle and T Camaro readers.

Ron

Hey, I didn't get a "harumph" from that guy over there! (Blazing saddles)

Bill,
If you read through the whole post, the recommendations have run the gammut. (SP?) Everything from the Edels are adequate to you need a 335 CNC head. See why this is confusing?
I realize that a 540 is a big engine....after all the $$$ I spent on my 498, I should have gone 540. (Making my 454 block a 4 bolt splayed cap deal raised the cost up to where I could have bought the aftermarket 540 block)
But who knew?
Sounds like my cam/head combo wouldn't work on a 540 though.

I need him to call AFR and Mike Lewis and get some solid ideas.
As far as 11;1...he would need to change pistons, and that isn't the goal here. I'll have my engine guy chime in as well....he didn't do to bad for me. (I picked all my parts, he had me change the cam, barely, and said I needed a dominator and manifold to match) Quick Fuel 1050 and a Brodix HV2001 which no one here seems to run....but the engine masters challenge folks did!

As far as would I like to keep him behind me? Well, no, I'd be tickled if he made the changes and spanked me. There is no rivalry between us folks, just fun.

Ever hear of the computer game "You don't know Jack"? I realize that I don't know Jack about 540's. In fact, I'm not sure why my 498 runs so good....

Appreciate the input as always.

Ron

Hi Ron, many of our 540's see Brodix heads and THAT intake. It's like I've been saying up here, if you want to "race", you'll use Brodix, if you want to have fun, you'll use anything else!!!!!

P.S. The Brodix pieces are the ONLY ones I've never sent back to them, over one single issue. EVERY other brand, at some point, INCLUDING the Pro-Toplines have gone back!! This includes them, the AFR's, the Dart's (both Mitchell's and Maskins') and 1 single pair of Edelbrock's, which by the way, do make excellent power also. It's just hard to get time to post all the combos!


This is an excerpt from a previous post just this past week. That HVH is one unbeatable intake, but we only need to use on certain units. The 2927's definitely deliver what we require.

(Quote)
P.S. I can give you some info on the short block:
1-540 Bow-Tie S/D, Ross L/W's 11:1 C.R., ESP +.250 Crank, ESP +.250 rods
2-Comp Cams (book-grind) 11-717-9, Comp Rollers 819-16's (Block mach.)
3-Brodix Heads 2-Xtra's, Brodix Intake HV2001 (no spacers), Holley 4500
4-All tests are using 2.125" primaries, absolutely NO "stepped" deals.

The first test, with the Brodixs' on top came off at 774 HP and 736 Ft.Lbs. I'll post specifics after ALL the numbers are in. It'll probably take a few more weeks at best. I have to finish his AFR's and return them so he can finish the ass'y. This is being done at his request! The unit we tested is our own and will be sold when we've finished with the 3 tests. (End quote)

I'm still bummed that the Camaro is gone to us T Chevelle and T Camaro readers.

Ron
You and me both ! My buddy Jim just left town Thursday:(
Last I heard, the new owner down in Loxahatchee is planning on a 4 link... WHAT A SHAME!!!,and then doing some kind of circuit racing..
And thanks Ron :)

Update!

My buddy found a set of like new AFR 315 full CNC heads on Craigslist for $2K. Complete with roller springs and a Jessel shaft rocker setup. Roughly 50% of list price. The seller had them on a 468 in a GTO, and he got tired of the Pontiac crowd giving him crap about having a rat motor in his Goat. (Way more power at 1/2 the price....but Pontiac folks will never get that....will they?)

This ought to wake up the 540....might not be the ultimate head....but I bet they shave at least 4 tenths and add 5+ mph....despite losing CR....which we feel is highly over rated. I'm thinking another low 10 second street car for the group......
BTW....he is currently running Edel Ovals on the car.....

Shoot, I should have snatched em up!

I'll keep you all posted.

Update!

My buddy found a set of like new AFR 315 full CNC heads on Craigslist for $2K. Complete with roller springs and a Jessel shaft rocker setup. Roughly 50% of list price. The seller had them on a 468 in a GTO, and he got tired of the Pontiac crowd giving him crap about having a rat motor in his Goat. (Way more power at 1/2 the price....but Pontiac folks will never get that....will they?)

This ought to wake up the 540....might not be the ultimate head....but I bet they shave at least 4 tenths and add 5+ mph....despite losing CR....which we feel is highly over rated. I'm thinking another low 10 second street car for the group......
BTW....he is currently running Edel Ovals on the car.....

Shoot, I should have snatched em up!

I'll keep you all posted.


Hope it works out...keep us posted

Hi Ron, The new head that Pat Musi has developed is a real good head if your going all out. A friend of my son's has a nitrous Camaro which weighes about 3250 lbs. with the driver and has the 24* Edelbrock Musi head. Last weekend it ran for the first time and went 9.12 @ 152.69 on the motor. The car has 605" BB, a 3.73 geared Dana rear end, powerglide transmission and a 605" motor.

Update!

My buddy found a set of like new AFR 315 full CNC heads on Craigslist for $2K. Complete with roller springs and a Jessel shaft rocker setup. Roughly 50% of list price. The seller had them on a 468 in a GTO, and he got tired of the Pontiac crowd giving him crap about having a rat motor in his Goat. (Way more power at 1/2 the price....but Pontiac folks will never get that....will they?)

This ought to wake up the 540....might not be the ultimate head....but I bet they shave at least 4 tenths and add 5+ mph....despite losing CR....which we feel is highly over rated. I'm thinking another low 10 second street car for the group......
BTW....he is currently running Edel Ovals on the car.....

Shoot, I should have snatched em up!

I'll keep you all posted.

Ok,

An update. His AFR 315 heads heve been on far a couple of weeks.
First outing with a 950HP was better, but not all that much different than the previous setup with the Edel Ovals.

Last night, he came back with a Quick Fuel dominator, fresh off the chassis dyno where he made 554 RWHP.

First hit, on a quite warm night.....10.24@133+
Best of the evening 10.17@133+

So 6 tenths and 8 mph better than the Edel oval setup ever ran.....

Impressive results I think.

Ron

Now that`s a nice improvement! And you`re pretty much spot on with your estimate.

Imagine how much quick he would have ran with a set of AFR 335s... ;)
I ran a 10.11 @134 in 100 degree heat two weeks ago. :( Track temp measured 141!!

Yes, quite an improvement.
He is thrilled to say the least.
I doubt he has enough cam to take advantage of the 335's.
But it now runs damn well, and I know he does not want to hit the nines. No cage, etc.
But he is now faster than our buddy with the 502 Chevelle, and that was the rivalry.

Mr. Chevelle went 9.96@136 last night....and got caught! He was spraying 2nd and 3rd gear.......

Fun stuff as both cars are driven to and from and run on M/T drag radials.

One last thing, the dominator belongs to Mr. Chevelle...and he hasn't tried it on his car yet. Wanna bet it ends up on the Chevelle soon?

Nice run Bill, when we gonna see a nine?

Ron

Nice run Bill, when we gonna see a nine?

Thanks Ron!
Not planning another track trip any too soon. Been too hot. The trip two weekends ago cost me a night in the hospital...heat stress. :(
Maybe in the fall...

Thanks Ron!
Not planning another track trip any too soon. Been too hot. The trip two weekends ago cost me a night in the hospital...heat stress. :(
Maybe in the fall...

Well glad you got through that!
I don't like 100 degree heat either. Must have to do with being over 50 now.....

Ron