I am going to put new 1/4 panel skins on my 69 coupe.
What are the draw backs of lap joining verses butt welding?
I have the tool for making the flange and holes, so I thought I would punch holes in the skins and weld these to the flange instead of welding along the seam.
Kind of like spot welding, then I would fill the seam and the spots with All Metal.
I am thinking this may keep the warping to a min.
I havent figures how to clamp the two togeather while welding though, kletoes, screws?
Butt welding seems like there would be a major alignment problem? Also a warpage and burn through problem?
any help is allways appreciated.
T.C.

Even if you plug weld it, you will still need to weld the seam. The All Metal will last longer than regular plastic filler, but will fail in time.

What type of welder do you plan on using?
Are you planning to cut the quarter at the top by the body line? If you are that body line will add a lot of rigidity to help eliminate heat distortion.

I use small sheetmetal screws when ever I can't reach with vice grips. Then weld up the hole.

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

Thanks MARTINSR:
I have a Hobart 150 with gas &.030 wire. I am new to welding and so I am looking for the safest and best way to replace these pannels.
I thought mabe I would put the holes on the inside rather than the outside of the seam? "mabe to hard to get to?"
I am doing a frame off but I am not conserned with being able to see a little seam in the trunk.
I plan to run the seam about 1" from the top of the rear body line along the top and about 1-1/2 at the door jam and just behind the marker lite at the rear.
The bottom will be all spot welded except for the part between the door and the wheel opening as I want to retain the seam at the rocker.
Would I be just as well off to skip the welded holes and use the flange for the screws or mabe rivets to hold the pannel snugg while welding "if I only weld the seam" or would It do better to weld both?
Thanks T.C.

However you decide to do it, when welding dont make a continuous weld. weld a short length then skip to the end or middle and continue welding short lenghts till its all filled in. Take your time, dont let to much heat build up, this will help reduce the warpage/shrinkage.

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Elcaminos are special!

I'd rather walk around with a Chevrolet hubcap in my hand than drive a Ford


work in progress
Big James Elky(AKA Ol Paint) (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/Big%20James4XL-Ol%20Paint1.jpg)
www.chevelles.com/showroom/workgoeson1.jpg (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/workgoeson1.jpg)

I just welded the panel under my rear window in place. I used a butt weld. For some pics of the job click here (http://www.geocities.com/chadjlandry/rearpanl.html).



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My Elky Page (http://www.geocities.com/chadjlandry/index.html) (updated 5-1-01)
"Think for yourself. Don't let popular opinion make your decisions for you."
Chad Landry
TC Member #643
ACES Member #04556
'68 El Camino

Thanks for the replys guys!
I plan on jumping from one end to the other while welding.I also am going to use a very wet rag and bucket of water to cool things as I go.
I think I will use a lap joint due to the strengh factor. I will use a plug weld and then weld the seam up.
I dont want any problems down the road with cracking plastic.
thanks!!!
T.C.

I lap welded the new quarter skins on my 65. If you look at my web site under bodywork I have some pictures posted. I cut the old quarters out about 3/4" below the top bend of the new skin to retain rigidity and help with alignment. I fit the skin and stitch welded it to control heat and any possible warping. I continued skipping around until the entire seam was welded. I used a Millermatic 130 with gas and .30 easy grind wire. I also skipped around when grinding down the welds to avoid heat buildup. I will finish the seam off with all metal body filler.

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http://home.centurytel.net/jcsmiths_65_chevelle/

Thanks for the pics. and the info J.C.
you have a big project going there, I'm lucky my floor pans were in good shape I only need one small patch on the driver floor and one in the trunk, also small. My car had been hit in the rear at some point in time and then bondo 1/4"-1/2" thick, So now we will try to fix it the correct way.
thanks again !!!
T.C.

My old 1/2 panels were Lap welded exactly where you want too put yours.. The guy that did it did not completely weld the seam (went about every 2 inches with a 1/2 inch bead) these panels held up to ALOT of use for approx 8 years before showing signs of fatigue. He did not weld both rdges of the lap nor did he close things up aggressivly.. I would suspect if you do the outside and much of the inside they will last much longer than mine did. Another word of caution, When I seperated the seams there was some rust inside the lap. so make sure you seal the seam as good as possible from the inside.. but the panel was strong and did not flex crack or pop anywhere along the seam. Good luck

As far as the rust, there are many "weld through" primers in a rattle can that work great, SEM makes my favorite.
DON'T use a wet rag to cool the weld, you will in affect shrink PAST where it was, this is a method for shinking and you want to say clear of that. When we say take your time welding we mean TAKE YOUR TIME, like hours and hours, maybe even all day to weld many little 1/2" long welds.
Can you get the seam closer to the door jamb? The closer you get the less warpage you will have.
T.C., am I correct that you Don't have rust, but are planning to replace the quarter because of the body damage and exessive "bondo"? I would seriously re-think this.
If it was hit from the rear and the frame and body weren't pulled back into the correct location, you still have a problem. Not only that, but if the "bondo" is removed and the frame and body returned to proper dimensions, you may have very little repair to do on the quarter to straighten it and avoid the quarter panel splice all together.

The first thing you MUST do is have the frame and body checked and or pulled. Even if you are going to replace the quarter you need this done, other wise you will be welding the quarter on an out of dimension body!

And do all your qaurter panel work while the body is on the frame, not off. You need to know that the body is in the same shape as it will be when it's on the frame when you weld on the quarter.

But I'll tell you, I would really look at repairing the panels with the pull as I mentioned.




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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

TC let me recommend one thing don't jump from one end to the other but just place small spot welds from one end to the other first then go back and skip weld.if you dont have the skin perfectly in place you may run into some problems in the center of the panel.

TC, you are very right about the spot welds, but to run a stitch from one end to the other is begging for disaster. You really need to spread the heat around. There are some who could weld the seam on this quarter without a problem, be it skill and or the quipment. But with out knowing the skill level I would say it is best to skip around and not heat one area too much. As long as you have the whole panel tack welded in with welds about every 3 to 4 inches, it ain't going anywhere.

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

Thanks to all!!
I had allready worked the pannels for weeks.
I really felt I was going to have to use more bondo than I wanted to.
I did have some rust around the wheel openings and had to put in a outer wheel house patch on one side. I would have had to put patch pannels over both wheel openings and behind the openings at the bottom of the quarter. I am amazed the trunk is in sucth good shape. I could not get the kinks out of the sail pannel transition area and the body line over the wheel that runs the leinght of the quarter had been flattened somewhat by another bodyman. The frame is ok, I drove the car for two years with no problem, it also looked ok untill I went to repaint it and found out what I realy had underneeth. It was then I desided to fix it rite, or as rite as I can afford. I think what I will probably do is spot it into place and have my brother (who welds for a living) do the seam. He fabracates lifts at a local truck shop. I just wanted to do it myself if I could but you guys have given me an insite as to what I may screw up. Maby this is one time things are better left to the experts?
thanks for all the advice.
T.C.

Here's another tip , instead of a damp rag, use compressed air to cool the weld,used this method for years without a problem, but as everyone has stated, take your time.

TC, this is the last bit of advice from me.
DON'T LET YOUR BROTHER WELD THESE QUARTERS!!!! Nobody can warp the heck out of sheetmetal more than a "pro" welder. I have seen it over and OVER. Welding 1/4 iron is NOT welding sheet metal and he probably (I say probably, because you didn't mention anything but the "He fabracates lifts at a local truck shop")hasn't a clue how to weld sheet metal on a car.
I am not joking, if all he does is weld lifts, YOU can do a much better job.

Please don't have your brother get all pissy at me, I am just going with 25 years in the autobody trade, and I have seen it too many times to count. Some pro welder heats the panel so much it turns into a giant Pringles Potato chip!

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

[This message has been edited by MARTINSR (edited 05-15-2001).]

TC, let me preface by saying I am no body man. That being said I helped a guy who is a professional install my quarters on my 69 convertible. He had a tool that rolled a 1/4" x1/8" "step" in the sheetmetal so when we layed the new quarter panel on it the edge layed right in that step. He jumped around on the spot welding,but welded it in solid, it took most of the day Saturday for each side and he used a heat soak putty. Definitely make sure you seam seal the weld from the inside, that is where your rust will start. This guy did it for me at his house nights and weekends type thing, he charged me 1,200. that included shooting the bottom of the car, welding a brace under the trunk, hanging the quarters (inner and outer), shooting the firewall, interior and trunk. Well worth it in my opinion...The water was too deep for a novice like me. Do some asking around. I couldn't have bought half the tools this guy had for the same money!! JMO Good Luck!

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TC #364
Aces #4309
Jeff's 69 (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/daytonajeff1.jpg)

Thanks again MARTINSR & Jeff;
I really appreciate all the advice and my brother does understand about what you are saying with the welding. He does however weld everything from thinn sheet metal to 1" thick slabbs. He was showing me a few do's and dont's the other day, he makes it look so easy! He does better than I do without even looking, just by the sound it makes. But as I stated before I would rather do it myself.
So here is the plan: I will fitt the skin using the lap method with a 1/2" flange. Thai should keep the seam flush. I will keep the seam as close to body folds or corners as I can for added strenth and hopfully cut down on the warping. I dont plan on cutting the door jam or tail lite corners, the joints will be 1/2- 1" to the inside of them.
Then spot weld it in place keeping the heat down and moving from one end to the other in an "X" pattern then at the center top and bottom to start.
Then slowly work my way around jumping from one end to the other until I get the seam complete. I guess it will be like a gazillion spot welds? Allways keeping the heat in mind as not to warp the pannel.
To finish it off I will seal the inside with a good rust paint and joint compound.
Thanks again guys!!!!!
T.C.

don't forget the weld through primer.. and if you can seal the inside (in trunk) areas of the seams as well or rust will get ya! Good Luck and take your time!

Sounds good TC, let us knwo how it goes. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

Thanks again!
If I may ask should I spray the weld through primer between the body and the skin ? Where I am going to weld?
I will let ya know how it comes out.
It will probably take me two weeks to fit the pannel though.
T.C.