Anybody ever use Kerosene to clean a car before waxing it? I have a friend that swears by it.

hmmm. ask your friend he you could try it out on his 03 vette that is in the garage. if he flips out well i think you known the answer


btw isnt Kerosene the same as desial fuel and isnt that used in engine degreasers?. well degreases will take your paint of. i dunno if all thats true someone help me out here? graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I've never heard of anyone using it before waxing, but thats how a lot of old timers shined their cars years ago. I have an uncle(now 83yrs.old) that used to "polish" his car with it every week. Looked great for awhile smile.gif I also remember an episode of the Beverly Hillbillys, when Uncle Jed told Jethro to go get some coal oil and polish the truck :)And John, did you ever get your slab poured? Just curious. Dennis

I remember when I was 16-17 I use to put 1/4 cup in a bucket of warm warter. Wash and dried my 67 Camaro shined pretty good. The idea came from my mother who read it in one of those home remedie helpful hints type books. Worked pretty good but haven't used that idea for about 30 years now.

Back in the day, we used it to remove road tar. I have to admit that I never used it on the whole car. Doesn't harm the paint though it will take the wax off. But then so does dish detergent and it smells better and won't catch fire as you're doing it.

Back in the 50's, the hot rodders painted their rods, hot rod dark gray primer. Money was tight and the primer covered a multitude of sins. When it began to lose its luster, they would wash it with kerosene to bring back the shine of new primer, of course NOW it was impossible to paint with real paint.

I've used kerosene many times over the past 30 years to clean/wash the whole car when diluted in warm water. I also use it full strength to remove road tar.

For the doubting Thomases, read the ingredients on the can of your favorite car polish. Unless it's one of the higher dollar synthetics, it will contain "petroleum distillates". Wanna guess what that is? Find a can of Number 7 Auto Polish, it's been on the market for years. Smell of it. Betcha you'll agree that it smells like perfumed kerosene.

The same can be said of many of the cleaner/waxes on the market...excluding the stuff like 100% carnauba etc.

My God, there are zillions of manufactures out there making products to wash and wax your car. Why in the world would you want to use some junior chemist concoction?

Go your friendly neighborhood parts store and look at the mile long shelves of waxes and "prewaxes", soaps, pre-washes, and every other friggin thing and BUY ONE. smile.gif

I use lacquer thinner to remove tar and whatever from the paint on both my cars, both of which wear lacquer. Does no harm on the El Camino and does fine by the Caprice too but I wouldn't let it sit in the same spot on the paint either or go crazy with it on a brand new car. I'm not sure if that's stronger or weaker than kerosene but it smells better and works fine.
I've used Number 7 Auto Polish before I knew about anything else and that worked pretty good, not as good as the two step Meguiar's paint cleaner and polish though. That stuff is top notch. My El Camino wears 16 year old black lacquer with pits and scratches everywhere but you wouldn't beleive how much deeper it made the color the first time I used it. Takes out scratches too if you really scrub with it. Keep reapplying it weekly and it gets better. Here's a pic: http://www.dreamelectric.com/images/Hood8-01.jpg

MartinSr, ya young whippersnapper, using diluted kerosene in warm water as a car wash isn't technically a child's chemical concoction. If I remember right, I learned about it from one of the car magazines...for what that's worth. You gotta remember that 30+ years ago we weren't dazzled with an array of fancy products for car care. Probably Turtle Wax Zip Wax car wash was about the fanciest stuff around at that time. Some of the "old" methods and products are just as good today as they were back then and still do just as good a job as the new high dollar stuff.

Sometimes the high horse position ain't necessarily the best way to go. smile.gif Whatcha think? smile.gif

Vette, we can evaluate each "junior chemist" idea that comes along, using windex and acetone for wax and grease remover was one I saw here on the forum a while ago smile.gif Some of them may be just fine. I have to return to my canned answer everytime.

USE THE CORRECT PRODUCT THAT HAS BEEN DESIGNED FOR THE USE AND YOU WILL HAVE LESS PROBLEMS.

Instead of these evaluations where you have a number of different ideas thrown at the guy how asks, just go with my recommendation.

Like I will ask everytime, hmmmmm, you have a car that is worth thousands of dollars, you have just spent five to ten thousand to paint it, or you have spent a year in your garage and a thousand dollars in paint materials and now you want to save eight bucks?? :confused:

Originally posted by MARTINSR:
you have a car that is worth thousands of dollars, you have just spent five to ten thousand to paint it, or you have spent a year in your garage and a thousand dollars in paint materials and now you want to save eight bucks?? :confused: hahah gotta admit the man has a point graemlins/beers.gif on the other hand, ive used it to shine up a really old dull paint job on a car i was going to sell, wipe on and its done, makes it look good for a little bit. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Anyone in this group over.... lets say 30 or so, knows of several things that used to work great for their specific application, but aren't available anymore due to environmental or health reasons.

One of the best degreasers in the world was 1,1,1-trichloroethane. But as of 1996(?) you can't buy it anymore. Hurts the ozone.

No company today would put kerosene in a bottle and sell it as an automotive pre-wax cleaner. Why? The knee-jerk reaction of society about using a fuel as a cleaner.

Not to mention, a pint of kerosene costs a few cents. A pint of "super shine-ola" will cost a few bucks. The maker of Shine-ola might be putting kerosene in the bottle of stuff, and as long as he calls it "petroleum distillates", he is legal. And look at his profit.

PPG sells a paint surface cleaner that removes grease, tar, and wax.... that is basically the same thing.

Kerosene, gasoline, diesel, lighter fluid, and even most commercial wax are all petroleum distillates. The important element of them is their volatility. The wax won't evaporate, so it is good to smear on your car and leave a lasting shine. Gasoline evaporates quickly, and thus makes a good fuel for your simple engine. The more volatile it is, the more likely it is to penetrate and dissolve other organic compounds... like paint.

I have first hand experience that gasoline will hurt your car's paint. (Note to self, stop putting the gas cap on the trunk while filling up.) But a heavier fraction like the stuff PPG sells won't.

And what is similar between the PPG tar remover and kerosene? Their volatility.

The stuff PPG sells is actually MORE volatile, as it evaporates pretty quickly compared to kerosene. And since they are both petroleum distillates, I think it is pretty safe to assume the kerosene is safer for your car's paint.

Sometimes the "junior chemist" idea might work better and cost less.

Now, if someone could explain why my grandfather swears by rubbing turpentine into his knee joints to stop the pain of arthritis...

Dave

I use a pint of kerosene in my engine right before I change my oil. I put it in, drive up on the ramps, shut it off, put up the jack stands, and go at it. I've never heard of using it on a car, but I don't think it would work to well with my paint job. I don't trust it, but who am I. :D

My grandfather, who is 86, used to say people put kerosene in their engine before an oil change to help clean the insides. But I've also heard that today's oil contains enough detergents that it isn't needed. On top of that, the oil seals, rubber gaskets, and sealers can be adversely affected by kerosene.

Dave

You guys are right, I feel a flu coming on, I think I will drain a few pints of blood out of me. That is the "good old fashion way" right? Before that darn Food and drug administration got their nose in my business and told the barbers they couldn't do that anymore. smile.gif

I think while I am at it, I'll go out and paint a car without a resperator like they did in the good old days before OSHA said you can't (bastards).

I think we should have no rules and no one telling me that I can't use all of my old home remedies, then America would be a nice place like Dhaka Bangladesh.
http://www.brainerd.net/~knudsen/69RS/Gif/aahh.gif

Dang! Didn't know I could stir the waters like this in any other place than bench racing! I got an old Jaguar I think I will try the kerosene on. Can't hurt it, huh?

Hehehe, I like to jerk MartinSr's chain occasionally. Bless his heart, he was indoctrinated well. If it ain't listed on a spec sheet with an accompanying MSDS, he is pretty sure it must be a junior chemist concoction. Bless his heart!

That's OK. He's a good guy in my book.

Vette, Dave, this is it in a nutshell. There are many "Old wives tales" or "old world remidys" out there that do work. And Yes Dave, there are products that are the re-packaged with a high tech name and price to go along with it. I agree with that. But to your general home hobbyest, WHICH ONES ARE THESE EXACTLY?

Why in the world would it be a good choice to TRY to sort this all out? Why would you want to "test" them out on your car?

I can if I want to, YOU can if you want to, but THAT IS NOT WHAT I AM GOING TO RECOMMEND.

Again, I agree that there are some cheaper stuff in fancy cans. SOME wax and grease removers (have you read my "Basics" on wax and grease removers Dave? you commented on them like they are all the same, they are NOT) are simply straight mineral spirits. That's it, mineral spirits. So I could go down to my friendly neighborhood McHome store and buy a gallon for what.....six or eight bucks? Or I could go down to the neighborhood AUTO PAINT STORE and buy a gallon of PPG, DuPOnt (or what ever brand paint I am using) and buy a can of THIER wax and grease remover (like a dummy, right) for about $20.00. WOW, that is 12 or 14 dollars more! That would be a BIG savings if I bought the McHome world stuff. smile.gif

But wait a minute, hmmmmm are there different "grades" of mineral spirits? Maybe the cheap stuff will have impurities or even contaiminates that could effect that $300.00 of base coat paint I am going to be using next. I don't know, you see, I am not privy to the make up (and probably wouldn't understand it) of what is in these two cans.

I do know one thing, if I use the PPG or Dupont product I am using a product that these companies RECOMMEND to be used along with the $300.00 of paint I just bought.

I also know that I would hand the "Auto body Gods" a heck of a lot more than that lousy 14 bucks to make a redue "go away", that I know.

It is kinda like going to the fridge and grabbing that old ground beef for dinner. It is a little browner than you'd like. It has a little bit of a stink than if it was fresh. Hmmmmmm, damn it cost $3.35, if I throw it out, it is like tossing $3.35 in the can! Then I think, how much would I hand someone to stop the craps and heaving at two in the morning that bad meat will give me. hmmmmmm I can toss it in the garbage without a bit of regret.

I was not "indoctrinated" by Sherwin Williams as you put. I have always done what makes sense. I was doing this stuff for almost 20 years BEFORE I was a rep. I simply look at what I SEE and use all info to make decisions. I KNOW that the ODDS are better if you use proper products. I think you guys can agree with that, right? We are talking ODDS here. If you were to have new, latest technology and old school, the new, latest technology is going to give you a more consistant result, ODDS are. So why "test" the products on your car to find out which is "better". You know that most likely ODDS are the old product is NOT going to be "better", it may be cheaper, and "equal", but NOT better. HOWEVER, the ODDS are it will not be as good, only cheaper. So what will that "not as good" cost me?

There is one thing that has to cleared up. I don't tell people on these forums what I would do, I tell them what THEY should do. Following the tech sheets is the ODDS on favorite to give them the best results. That is not to say that I use "junior chemist" ideas myself, I don't. But I do give advice that matches thier ability (as close as I discern their abilities from their post) this is NOT aways what I would do.

This is a major overload of reading but if you feel so compelled, read the "essay" I wrote below on "junior chemists" smile.gif

Here is where I put my disclaimer. Remember guys, we are all standing around in a garage bsing. Don't take any of this stuff personal. We are simply discussing a subject on auto body. graemlins/beers.gif


.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&gt ;>>>>
Rules, rules, rules, so many rules. Use this don’t use that. Sand this, don’t sand that. These companies must think we are stupid right? They tell us to buy their products only. Of course they do, so they can make money off of us, right?

That is how many people feel. They mix and match products thinking they can out smart the chemists that created the product!

The manufacturer spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, possibly even millions, developing the product. They did EVERYTHING possible to make it perform it’s best. Heck, if they found it worked better if you painted it while standing on your head, THAT would be in the tech sheet!

Did you know that most of these products you use have a lifetime warranty? That’s right. The manufacturer will stand behind their primers, paints, and clears for your LIFETIME. Now, as a DIYer you can’t have this warranty. What makes the difference between the warranty YOU have (usually none) and the lifetime warranty a shop may have? The training, that’s what. The manufacturer has classes for the painters to go to. He then takes a test, if he passes, the manufacture knows that he understands the procedures and proper product choice. The manufacturer has learned that it is likely the painter will use the product properly and it will perform as expected. The manufacturer puts hundreds of millions of dollars on the line with this warranty. They know they can, if the product is used EXACTLY as they have instructed on the tech sheet.

I have always been the kind of guy to follow instructions. Even before I had the training I used the products exactly as I was told to. I am sure this accounts for the very few failures I have had in the 28 plus years I have been doing this work.

Five of those 28 years I was a paint rep. If there is one singular thing I came away from that job with it would be importance of following the recommendations. As a rep I visited hundreds, possibly thousands of shops. These shops were in every shape and size. From one with seven frame machines and five paint booths doing a million dollars of business a month, to a one man shop with two stalls.

Among these shops there was a very distinct pattern: the ones who went to tech school, had only ONE brand of product on the shelves, and REFERRED to the tech sheets, had fewer problems. Most of these shops had NO problems, EVER.

They were open to hear about new products and ready to learn about how to make any product or tool perform better. Oh yeah, and they made more money.

Then, there was the “dark side”. These were the shops that would buy any product, any brand, just to save a dollar. Their shelves were covered with so many labels, it looked like the cans of soda and beer in a Quickie Mart cooler.

If, and I mean a BIG if, you could get them to a tech class, they were disruptive and later told me how they “could have taught that class”. They were quick to tell you how smart they were and how the paint company didn’t know jack about the “real world”. These shops took up about 99% of my trouble shooting time. They didn’t have little “how can I get this primer to dry faster?” sort of problems. They had TOTAL catastrophic failures! I was the first one they called because we must have put out a “bad batch” of product.

I tell you this only so you can understand where I get this passion that I have for using products properly. It was like watching a basketball game where one of the teams was wearing wet jeans and cowboy boots! After a while you wouldn’t even have to watch, you would know what the outcome was going to be.

Most product data sheets can be read in a few minutes. They are available on line, as well as in the store where you bought the products and many are even available on “Fax Back” right over your phone.

Get proper mixing containers. Be sure the solvents used match temperatures of the booth. Double check to be sure you have ALL the components (and enough of them) BEFORE you start so you don’t find yourself tempted to be “creative”.

The three most important things and the most common cause of failures are as follows:
1. Mix the proper components accurately .
2. Use the correct solvent for the temperature.
3. FOLLOW THE RECOMMENDED FLASH TIMES.

All this info is on the product data sheets, use them.

Painting can be difficult, there are things that are quite honestly out of your control. So, why not do EVERYTHING that IS in your control correctly.

Back in my neigborhood, twenty-five years ago, lived one of the area's best car painters. People who wanted the best came to him. I watched him many times and always asked him how he did things when I was 1st learning the trade. He used gasoline to wipe down the car before spraying it.
Yep, it worked for him. Very well in fact. I saw it done many times. I even did it a few times when I was a teen-ager. Would I do it now? Hell No! There are many better designed products out there now. My Dad tells me stories of my uncles 'polishing' thier 32 Model A Ford with motor oil! That's when nothing else was available or affordable.

MartinSr, you're a funny dude when you get your chain tweaked. That's why I do it. Thanks for the little giggle from getting to see you squirm. smile.gif

I don't guess you want to hear my stories about making fan belts for T & A Model Fords out of leather mule plowing reins or using similar leather strips as a temporary fix for a rod knocking on the old Chevys with babbited rods. OK, I won't tell those. Don't want to give you a heart attack. smile.gif

Vette, no tweeking here. Say something personal about my family, THEN I'LL TWEEK smile.gif This stuff, it is just body and paint.

I have done my fair share of fabing stuff from nothing believe me. But I know some guys from third world countries that would make us look like book worms. These guys HAVE to do things like MAKE axle shafts from water pipe or remove a piston and rod and run the thing as a five cyl.!

The car below is ALL Buick, body and all. You can imagine how much fabrication needs to be done when building a car from scratch as this. But that is no "junior chemist" stuff. It is calculated fabrication.

http://members.aol.com/goodstuff53/arod.jpg

So Martin, next your probably going to tell me boiling laquer paint before i spray it doesn't REALLY make it flow out like glass? :D

8. Brake fluid mixed with Clorox makes smoke, and lots of it.

:D

Originally posted by dwebb210:
My grandfather, who is 86, used to say people put kerosene in their engine before an oil change to help clean the insides. But I've also heard that today's oil contains enough detergents that it isn't needed. On top of that, the oil seals, rubber gaskets, and sealers can be adversely affected by kerosene.

Dave Dave,
I've done it for the past 6 years in my cars, no oil leaks and no loss of power from any of them. I've yet to do it with my '01 Mustang GT, but I've been doing it with my 74 GTO (455), my 92' GT and i've done it twice now with my 71 Chevelle. Not to say that your wrong, i've just not had any problems. Have I had any gains, I don't know...so, I guess we're both "right". graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by 70isfine:
So Martin, next your probably going to tell me boiling laquer paint before i spray it doesn't REALLY make it flow out like glass? :D Does that work?

I've never boiled lacquer, but I've heated acrylic enamel on a stove/heater many times when painting in an unheated booth during cold weather. It sure makes it flow out very slick.

I would think that would be very dangerous? Is it not?

It is extremely dangerous and does not work.It was posted as a joke.Its an old wives tail.Don't try it. http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/sprachlos/speechless-smiley-040.gif

MartinSr Cool steet rod! You want to see some fabrication, you should try Cuba, half the cars on the road are from the 50's and no new parts for 40 or so years. The people are very poor and if your family happens to have a car they never give it up, just past down through the family. They make all there own parts! It's really something to see. Dave

Hard to believe someone would post something that could get someone killed. The original OP should edit that out.

70isfine, heating paint in cold weather was not posted as a joke, it is not an old wife's tale and it can be dangerous.
The trick is to heat the paint in a large container of water. That helps to lessen the risk of applying direct heat to the can of paint.

Check with any old painter that worked in a cold climate. Heated paint booths haven't been economically available to the average paint shop/painter since paint was invented, doncha know. How do you think they were able to apply paint during winter months when they didn't have a heated booth. They sure didn't close down 'til spring.

Danger and necessity are sometimes bedfellows.

Originally posted by 70isfine:
Its an old wives tail.Old wives tail. LOL- was that a Freudian slip? :D

This has got to be the funniest thread I have read in a LONG time! Kudos to MartinSr and others here for having such a great sense of humor.

Any body that would heat paint, at least todays paints, directly in the can is an idiot. I can see maybe putting it in hot water, but even then...I dont know. In this day and age I guess it would only be DIY'ers working in unheated booths. Why not just wait until it warms up instead of risking your life? Id bet if the paint can doesnt explode, the fumes will get you.

I wonder what will happen to all of those old cars and the people who make parts for them when Castro finally kicks the bucket. Maybe instead of buying offshore parts from Taiwan, we will be getting fenders and Quarter panels made in KoobA.

I had the first post about heating paint and it was meant as a joke,its something that was done back in the day,and is no longer relevant today,like the kerosene to clean your car,washing a car with gasoline before you paint it ect. Todays paints are desingned to spray as cold as 55 degrees.

:D

70isfine, I note that you call East Stroudsburg home. As best I can recall, it gets far below 55 degrees in the fall/winter/early spring. How the heck do you think people in your area painted cars when the temp was below 55 degrees?

Actually, I haven't used the heating paint trick since the winter of 1983, but it was something that many shops did during that time because not many of them could afford the cost of a heated booth.

It does get well below 55 degrees here, but most auto body facilities here are heated. You don't need a heated booth,just a heating system that can keep the place warm enough.I'm not talking about warming a cold can of paint to room temp,i was referring to boiling laquer. smile.gif

And to conclude this thread, some people use kerosene to clean their cars, others don't, thank you drive thru.

"your doing a good job..."


Do I need to explain that?

When you get the English language down pat, we'll start discussing paint and body.

Not wanting to get into a debate here, just thought it a little rude to come down on somebody for saying how things used to be done when that person seems to be very well qualified
in his field.A lot of things are done different
now days,the products have all changed, the tools and eqp. have changed.

I`ve welded many,many panels and patches in with a tourch,just think what I could nave done with a mig.Which I`ve been useing now for 35 years.

And yes I even heated paint,I didn`t boil it, just warmed it up.Even tried a heated air supply system.Then tried a cooled air system.

I agree any one that would use gasoline or kerosene to wash or clean paint must have a loose connection. Just my 1/2 cents worth.

Troy-curt, graemlins/beers.gif

graemlins/beers.gif

boomhauer, you're right. That was rude. I've edited the offending passage from my post. You may edit your quote of that passage if you wish.

I'm done on this thread.

.

A heated booth is not going to do what heating the paint in some way isn't going to. Heating the paint lowers the viscosity so it can get out of the gun, and it helps a urethane "kick". I personally have never done it, but I have worked as a rep where they did. In the "old days" they would heat it on a "hot plate" :eek: Double :eek: :eek:

That is just plain nuts. But to set the gallon of clear in six inches of hot water in five gallon bucket as the shop I saw do when it was cold in the winter doesn't seem like it is out of line. It is just like as if you heated the room with the clear in it, and the clear was all that was sitting in there, you would do that wouldn't you?

On the temp issue, you "can" shoot urethanes in under 55 degrees, it just isn't going to properly cure. It "can" cure at a later time (days) when it DOES reach 55 degrees for a few hours. Though as I rememeber it never will cure as thorough as it would if it was painted and allowed to cure in 70 degree or above.

Well, this has been interesting :D

Heating paint reminds me of the other day we were on a job and needed to recover refrigerant from a system but our recovery drum was too full.

Not wanting to drive all the way back to the shop, I heated it with my acytlene torch to transfer the refrigerant into another drum like my memtor tought me years ago which is a very dangerious thing to do
(If you let the drum get very warm, YOU'RE DEAD)

I made sure I told my helper "Don't ever do this you have to keep testing the temperature of the drum constantly to make sure it isn't getting too warm.

It's not something you can do while being distracted, I saw my mentor blow the soft plug out of the bottom of an upsidedown 125lb drum of R-12 when I walked up and started talking to him.

It doesn't take very long to empty a 125lb drum of refrigerant, I'm sure glad our government made the manufacturer put in safety plugs

Ran a car wash back in late 60's ....we used it to take off tar, etc. never used it to "prewax". Would think it would be ok if not rubbed hard but would recommend another treatment afterwards to remove the residue b4 waxing.