Just a quick poll to see what people think. I put Manual Disc's on my 70 and I love them. I still have the 307/TH350 in at the moment and with 3.73 gears it is a PITA at stop lights and stuff, but I just drop it into nuetral if I'll be there for a little. The 454's going back togeather and the ST-10 it ready to go, so I won't have that problem for too much longer.

I just put the door panels in and had to test drive them tonight... :) I finally did some panic stops with the car and it was great. I could lock the wheels up if I wanted to, but what got me was that I was able to keep them right on the edge real easy. With my Cobra I have to work to keep them on the edge and if I lock them up it seems like I have to really come off the bakes to get them unlocked. I don't really, it just feels that way. With the Chevelle it I didn't even have to work hard.

I then tossed in a few turns to see if I could lock 1 wheel or get a little fishy and it was real easy to control.

I called my cousin who helped me a ton with building this car and told him and he said "a power setup will stop shorter..." He's a bit set in his ways and when I first told him I was going manual he looked at me like I'd grown a third head... He drove the car and said he really liked the setup and he admitted that his first reaction that it would be unsafe was wrong.

It does take a little getting used to though. If you are used to power brakes the car feels like it won't stop. It will, you just have to push harder. My cousin even said "it stops allot faster then you think it will".

Anyway, back to the poll. He maintains that the PB setup will respond quicker and therefor stop quicker. I say that the MB setup lets you control the stop better and you can stop at a maximum effort easier and therefor stop the same or quicker then a PB setup.

Anybody have real world experiance to share?

David

In a way, he's somewhat right... with a booster, it takes less effort to push the pedal, so you can get on it quicker, but if your leg is strong enough, it won't make much, if any difference.

Once they get hot, you may need some help from the booster to put a LOT of pressure on them to get them to do anything.

I'll give the edge to the power disks. I had manual disks on my 73 el Camino. I don't remember how much effort was required but I never crashed because of them. But, who can argue with having MORE POWER ??? :D

The things that limit how well a car will stop are related to the brakes (pads, rotors), the tires, the suspension and the weight of the car. The brakes work the same regardless of how the pedal pressure (leg power or leg power/vacuum power) is provided. All other things being equal, the stopping ability for manual vs. power brakes will be the same.

My vote is for manual discs for the feel alone, but I'm cheating by running a Wilwood dual master pedal with a balance bar. Mmmmmmm mmmmm. If I hadn't gone that route, I'd probably go for power discs. I'm with David because I can very easily sense a lockup before it actually happens - it just takes a few minutes of driving it to get used to the lack of assist after driving a power brake car all week.

Ryan

Drum brakes stop best :) Self energizing and more friction area always wins. Just don't heat them up or drive through water.

Now for discs. Whatever allows you to create the most pressure at the caliper will stop the car the quickest. Whether it is using a power booster or using an appropriately sized MC.

Steve

From real world experiences, what Rich and several others have eluded to is exactly correct... power versus manual will make no difference in how the brakes work... only in how they 'feel'!

I have converted several cars from drums to disks and then from power assisted to manual and I'll always go manual from here on out. You get much better feel for what the brakes are actually during. And given the correct match of components, I'd wager that you would not be able to tell the difference. When I first converted my 71 Chevelle SS to manual disks I was not happy. Pedal was too hard and the car felt like it didn't want to stop. I did a whole bunch of research and learning about such things as rotor diameters, caliper bore sizes, pressures, Master cylinder operation, etc. First thing I realized was how screwed up my system was. I re-grouped with some new parts and tried several versions of this and that and pretty soon, things were working awesome! This was a 71 BBC car that had 4-wheel disks, 12" in front, 11" in rear. That car would stop on a dime and you'd have control the whole time doing it. When other people would drive the car, they would not believe me that it was manual, even after looking under the hood!

Most of the problems I see with people today is that they will just buy a kit or something and throw it on the car, not understanding many of the underlying principles of how the brakes actually work. Then they **** and moan about how sucky manual or the new power brakes are. Believe me, just because you bought a kit from somewhere doesn't mean it's going to work good!

The one area that I will disagree with is that the statement made that PB will respond quicker is false IMO. In a PB system, when you hit the brakes, the pedal pushes the pushrod into the booster and the booster will in turn respond and push against the MC with a different pushrod. There is an ever-so-slight delay in the action of the booster pushing against the MC which then causes the fluid to flow. In a manual setup, the pedal pushrod pushes directly on the MC to start the fluid flow immediately. Of course, you and me tell never be able to actually 'feel' that difference, but computer modeling can show it.

So in answer to the poll, like for like systems should stop equally well. However, I feel that a manual system is much more customizable to allow you to then stop better than a PB system.

Bill C.

Drum brakes stop best :) Self energizing and more friction area always wins. Just don't heat them up or drive through water.

Steve

Now you done it...standby for the deluge from the disk brake true believers congregation...

My $0.02

I'm sure that this is the extreme but my car was originally a big block car with pwr discs. It was changed to a manual disc with a strong big block and two stages of nitrous. Stopping was interesting but scary. I've since gone back to power disc brakes. Life is much easier now. :)

I have some questions then for you guys. I have all manual drums. I know I want disks. Read lots of articles hear on converting to power disks. But.... I am thinking I like the idea of having some more feel, and my leg is strong enough. Also I plan on running a stroker sbc, which I have heard has low vaccumn issues requring a booster in order to run power. So I guess my question is do I just have to get the disk setup and I can use all my regular braking equipment? Just replace the spindles with the disks and calipers and such? It would be nice to just install that stuff and screw in the lines...

In a way, he's somewhat right... with a booster, it takes less effort to push the pedal, so you can get on it quicker, but if your leg is strong enough, it won't make much, if any difference.

Once they get hot, you may need some help from the booster to put a LOT of pressure on them to get them to do anything.

At 6'2", 265 I don't have any problems in the "leg strenght" department... :)

David

I'll have to agree with Rich-L79 in post#4 (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=939533&postcount=4) and anyone else above or below him alluding to the same. That's just the way it works, period.
Other than that, power brakes may feel like they stop better.

oh, and the booster adds weight, for those who care about such things.

If you're able to lock them up at speed, there is nothing but stickier tires or shedding weight that will help you stop faster.

You stop quickest when your brakes are just on the verge of locking, so if you can lock them, applying more pressure won't help anything.

If you can't lock them (under-sized brakes, hot pads & rotors, really sticky tires, etc.) anything that helps you apply MORE PRESSURE will help you stop faster up to the point where they actually lock up.

Drum brakes stop best :) Self energizing and more friction area always wins. Just don't heat them up or drive through water.


Steve
If that is so why does a typical disc/drum brake system have a shorter stopping distance than a 4 wheel drum brake system.
Also a disc brake system has a larger surface area than a drum system as it has friction surface on both sides of the rotor.

If that is so why does a typical disc/drum brake system have a shorter stopping distance than a 4 wheel drum brake system.
Drums yield more braking with less effort than discs... until they fade.

That's just it, and Steve hinted to it. Drums tend to fade. If brakes fade, drum or disc, the stopping distance will be longer.

Also the self energizing action can make drums more difficult to modulate, so threshold braking is not as controlled as with discs. This could add to stopping distances.

Many semi's I believe still use drums on some axles, because of their braking characteristics, and the fact that they can stick a really wide drum under the wheels of those big trucks for more swept area and better cooling than any disc they could tuck under there, to reduce fade.

I still haven't seen any conclusive real world tests that satisfy me that disc systems stop faster than drum systems, but I have had front drums fade out on the highway, and that's no fun. If they'd stuck bigger drums under there, it might not have happened.

First off, the stock drums leave a lot to be desired! The stock disc/drum system is not prefect either, but works better overall than the drum/drum giving the illusion that a disk/drum system stops better.

One of the real problems with drums has already been beat on... fading. What helps is to understand WHY drums fade. Mostly due to gasses be trapped under the drum pad during braking that keeps the drum from actually touching the pad. It's the same principle as getting water in the drum brakes... keeps the parts from touching and actually stopping. The inherent closed-up nature on the drum brakes that is supposed to keep the water out is largely responsible for getting those hot gasses and any moisture in should it get in! The solution is actually quite simple... provide a way for the gasses and water to escape the drum and the problem goes away. If you do a search on the internet, you will come up with all kinds of ways to do this and then the drums work great... too great IMO! Some of the remedies include grooving the drums as some of the rotors are today. People have found that drilling small holes around the perimeter of the drum right at the edge of the machined inner surface solves the problem and there are many more techniques as well.

Using much better drum shoes helps a bunch as well. Many people have tried and love the praise dyno shoes. That would be the equivelent of using better pads on rotors... why not?

I can attest from real-world experiences in riding in a drum/drum car that they can stop quite well! Too well in fact IMO! This car had several on the 'tricks' applied along with the praise dyno shoes and would literally throw you right thru the windshield! You had to be pretty careful not to lock the wheels on that car! One of the biggest problems with drum brakes IMO is that pressure needed to actually lock them up is very small in comparison to disk brakes. To fully lock a stock drum takes less than 200psi line pressure... a stock disk on a stock chevelle takes around 900 psi to lock. That is why there is such a difference in the combo valves between the two... the main purpose in the disk/drum combo valve is to LIMIT the amount of pressure the rear drums can get so they do not lock up!

So again, which is better is like asking beer tastes better... MGD or Budweiser??!! Both will get the job done...

Bill C.

budweiser.... MGD has its qualities though.

Since a power booster on my 67 would be a waste of time, to much cam and in the way and add extra weight, I'm using a manual system. I have GM disk on the front and Mark Williams brakes on the back. I'm using a dual resevoir 1 1/8 bore master. The large calipers require a lot of fluid and the big bore master is madatory.

The pedal ratio has a lot to do with how the brakes work. In production cars most of the time we don't have the ability to change the ratio but race cars should address this.

The amount of pressure on the front brakes in race cars can have a affect on how the car leaves. They make a pressue guage that you see in pro stock cars that can monitor the pressure applied and held by the line lock.

Hi Bill,
This is the first time I have used this message service so I hope that you get this.
I have a 66 Chevelle with a Big Block. Many years ago I took the front disc's off a wrecked 70SS BB. Now, 25 year later (3 kids later) I am trying to get my car back on the road. I did not install the booster from the 70, only the front disc assembly, the hold off valve (or metering valve) and a manual master cylinder. The brakes did not ever really work that well. My thought at this time is to purchase a proportioning valve and master cylinder --matched for manual disc's-- and hope that all will be well. However, with your experience perhaps you could make some recommendations and save me some rework and money.
Thanks,
Con Crowley

Manual - for the feel, and they're very consistent, especially compared to power brakes with a radical cam.

If that is so why does a typical disc/drum brake system have a shorter stopping distance than a 4 wheel drum brake system.
Also a disc brake system has a larger surface area than a drum system as it has friction surface on both sides of the rotor.

How much surface area does a set of disc brakes have? If I have 10" x 2" drum brakes with only 50% coverage in the drum I've got 31+ square inches of surface area. If I have a typical GM disc brake setup, there's much less than 15 square inches on each pad, I would guess about 8.

How much surface area does a set of disc brakes have? If I have 10" x 2" drum brakes with only 50% coverage in the drum I've got 31+ square inches of surface area. If I have a typical GM disc brake setup, there's much less than 15 square inches on each pad, I would guess about 8.

I know that total contact area of the pad has input into the stopping power but the real deal is the ability of the disk brakes to shed heat and the much higher pressures applied to the caliper to clamp the rotor. Brake pressure can exceed 2000 psi in a disk system, drums operate well below this level.

The best drum brakes I used were on my 65 and it used full metallic linings made be Lakewood. They were ugly when the system was cold but once heated the would not fade. This combo killed the drums but it stopped.

I like option 4, Brakes? Who needs em'

First off, the stock drums leave a lot to be desired! The stock disc/drum system is not prefect either, but works better overall than the drum/drum giving the illusion that a disk/drum system stops better.

One of the real problems with drums has already been beat on... fading. What helps is to understand WHY drums fade. Mostly due to gasses be trapped under the drum pad during braking that keeps the drum from actually touching the pad. It's the same principle as getting water in the drum brakes... keeps the parts from touching and actually stopping. The inherent closed-up nature on the drum brakes that is supposed to keep the water out is largely responsible for getting those hot gasses and any moisture in should it get in! The solution is actually quite simple... provide a way for the gasses and water to escape the drum and the problem goes away. If you do a search on the internet, you will come up with all kinds of ways to do this and then the drums work great... too great IMO! Some of the remedies include grooving the drums as some of the rotors are today. People have found that drilling small holes around the perimeter of the drum right at the edge of the machined inner surface solves the problem and there are many more techniques as well.

Using much better drum shoes helps a bunch as well. Many people have tried and love the praise dyno shoes. That would be the equivelent of using better pads on rotors... why not?

I can attest from real-world experiences in riding in a drum/drum car that they can stop quite well! Too well in fact IMO! This car had several on the 'tricks' applied along with the praise dyno shoes and would literally throw you right thru the windshield! You had to be pretty careful not to lock the wheels on that car! One of the biggest problems with drum brakes IMO is that pressure needed to actually lock them up is very small in comparison to disk brakes. To fully lock a stock drum takes less than 200psi line pressure... a stock disk on a stock chevelle takes around 900 psi to lock. That is why there is such a difference in the combo valves between the two... the main purpose in the disk/drum combo valve is to LIMIT the amount of pressure the rear drums can get so they do not lock up!

So again, which is better is like asking beer tastes better... MGD or Budweiser??!! Both will get the job done...

Bill C.

budweiser.... MGD has its qualities though.

My vote is Budweiser too, although i prefer some good coors light at times.:beers:

I put discs on a '55 Chevy sedan by using a Camaro dual master cylinder, and loved the feel they gave me, much more than the booster setup. Also, it left more room and a cleaner under the hood appearance without the booster, plus no vacuum leaks, hoses, etc to keep up with.
TXCR13

So the consensus's, after reading this thread, is that comparing a stock sized disc rotor to a stock sized brake drum system for ACTUAL BRAKING is this...

The drums brake better due to more contact area -- But the discs are cooler and thus more consistent.
**the booster factor should not be included for proper analyzation or fair comparison since it can be applied to either system, if pedal effort is the dominant goal.

So you can do one of the following...

A: Go to a larger brake rotor (which deviates considerably from original for the earlier cars).

B: Opt for performance brake shoes and drums.
http://www.praisedynobrake.com/stage-iii.htm


In either case, it appears the costs are close to being the same, and the point about the drums pulling to one side or another should also be excluded since a properly adjusted system would not.

So in summation, its obvious to me that for people with disc brake cars, the way to go would be larger rotors. For drum brake cars it would be special shoes and drums.



...again, thats if actual braking is indeed the primary goal.

So the consensus's, after reading this thread, is that comparing a stock sized disc rotor to a stock sized brake drum system for ACTUAL BRAKING is this...

The drums brake better due to more contact area -- But the discs are cooler and thus more consistent.
**the booster factor should not be included for proper analyzation or fair comparison since it can be applied to either system, if pedal effort is the dominant goal.

So you can do one of the following...

A: Go to a larger brake rotor (which deviates considerably from original for the earlier cars).

B: Opt for performance brake shoes and drums.
http://www.praisedynobrake.com/stage-iii.htm


In either case, it appears the costs are close to being the same, and the point about the drums pulling to one side or another should also be excluded since a properly adjusted system would not.

So in summation, its obvious to me that for people with disc brake cars, the way to go would be larger rotors. For drum brake cars it would be special shoes and drums.



...again, thats if actual braking is indeed the primary goal.


A Standard 11" Disc setup on the front will stop shorter then the standard drums, most everytime. Don't be fooled that there is more surface area on drums. It's about pressure, and temperature and both drums and discs will lock up a wheel. The trick is to not slam on the brake so hard that it locks the brake up - hence anti-locks brakes come standard on MOST new cars.

The biggest difference is HEAT, and fading. Drum brakes fade quicker then disk because as they heat up the drum actually increases it's diameter, which will cause the need for more petal pressure. And this can be EXTREMELY dangerous if the drums have been turned to thier Maximum recommended Diameter. Disc's dont expand the same as drums, but still fade under severe heat, just due to the heat factor.

My take on it is, drums are fine for the average street cruiser on these older cars (but remember the guy your tailgating in his 2006 BMW can stop alot faster then you can). But if your going to drive it hard, or want it to be up to par with todays cars then put on a set of disc fronts. Manual or Power - it doesn't matter if you can apply the needed amount of petal pressure.

Incidentally, I had converted my 70 chevy truck to discs which I removed from a 72 model, only because I wanted to change the wheel bolt pattern at the time.
There was a specific type of wheels I wanted at the time, but my preferences changed toward a custom set of ralleys.

I would never had done the conversion and wish I could go back.
The pressure required to apply the disc brakes is very noticeably more, than with the original drums.

Eventually, I will be going with larger rotors on the truck to reduce the amount of pressure required to actuate them sufficiently..and no, I don't like boosters.

With the chevelle, I will definitely be going with the Praise stage 3 kit, and I will not be going to larger drums because this will most likely require changing the backing plate.
If I were not so concerned with originality, an 'oversize' rotor conversion would be the logical next step (vs. larger drums).

Your absolutely correct that the disc's require more pressure then drums. When you did the swap on your truck, you should also have gone to a disk brake master c. - as it will provide the pressure you need with little foot effort.

If your still using the drum brake master, you doing 2 things. One, is not providing enough pressure to the front discs. Two, your drum master has about 10lbs of residual pressure left in the line when you let off the petal. The residual pressure causes your disc brakes to drag.

Anyways, just information for ya.

Good luck.

Actually, the other truck didn't have a brake booster, though I wouldn't have used it anyway. It was a non-booster disc brake combo.

I did of course change the master cylinder.

The appeal of a brake booster is that it is the most cost efficient route for those concerned only with pedal pressure.

The master cylinder, shoes and drums/rotors do the stopping. The booster just allows you to do it with less effort. I can lock the disc brakes on our non power vehicle as well as the others. Just have to push a little harder. To stop any quicker I'd need more grip between the tires and road.
With 4.10 gears, 4 speed and a 11-1 compression, I could almost get away with no brakes at all. Gearing down does the job.

If that is so why does a typical disc/drum brake system have a shorter stopping distance than a 4 wheel drum brake system.
Also a disc brake system has a larger surface area than a drum system as it has friction surface on both sides of the rotor.


Because drum brakes fade rapidly under anything but normal stopping. There is absolutely NO argument that disc brakes are far superior than drums during severe service. Look at the racing world. No really fast cars are equipped with drum brakes. We've all seen video of NASCAR disc brakes while they are racing. The discs get red hot time corner after corner but they still work without noticible fade. Det your drums red hot and you'll have a devil of a time stopping the car.

The ONLY thing power brakes do for a car is to cause the driver to work less hard stopping his/her car. They DO not change stopping distance all other things being equal. They are a convenience.

The ONLY thing power brakes do for a car is to cause the driver to work less hard stopping his/her car. They DO not change stopping distance all other things being equal. They are a convenience.If you have really sticky tires, the difference in line pressure achievable with vs w/o power assist may make a difference in stopping distances.

If you run regular street tires, they will likely lock up before the line pressure gets to that point anyway.

If you have really sticky tires, the difference in line pressure achievable with vs w/o power assist may make a difference in stopping distances.

If you run regular street tires, they will likely lock up before the line pressure gets to that point anyway.
Thats my thought, Friction between the tires and road surface stop the vehicle.

hmm no need for brakes(its called monster bbc 6-speed manual stage 3 clutch) Just put it into reverse gun it and let off the clutch. (J/K)

+++ for power brakes I am going to ls1 brakes(already powder coated in sunset orange) With silver vein mount on black.

I wanted to install 11" drums all the way around on my '67 Camaro car, but to this day, I have NEVER found anybody that will tell me what GM did to put 11" drums on the front of the '65, 375hp/396, Z-16 Chevelle!!

It is the only A/F/X car that had 11" drums all the way around.

You have to have a spindle that has the top shoe bolt moved up 3/4" vs our 9.5" forged drum spindles.

So what did they use besides a one-off factory custom spindle?? I get a lead on what that spindle is and I can darn well make the ball-joints it needs fit my car if I have to drill out and then install tapered B-J bushings or even turn one upside down??/!!

pdq67

TTT........

I've been asknig about this for years and haven't found out yet??

pdq67

What about someone posting a template on how to go about doing a manual disc brake setup on a A body? As far as the size bore,calipers etc.


Also what about the actual pedal ratio? Many guys go to manual and leave the original power pedal in there. Don't you have to use a specific manual pedal to get the ratio right?

hmm no need for brakes(its called monster bbc 6-speed manual stage 3 clutch) Just put it into reverse gun it and let off the clutch. (J/K)

+++ for power brakes I am going to ls1 brakes(already powder coated in sunset orange) With silver vein mount on black.

Do you have any pictures of this?

Gotta bring this back up!!

Anybody remember the cast-iron inserted aluminum brake drums GM made back then??

pdq67

Drums yield more braking with less effort than discs... until they fade.

That's just it, and Steve hinted to it. Drums tend to fade. If brakes fade, drum or disc, the stopping distance will be longer.

Also the self energizing action can make drums more difficult to modulate, so threshold braking is not as controlled as with discs. This could add to stopping distances.

Many semi's I believe still use drums on some axles, because of their braking characteristics, and the fact that they can stick a really wide drum under the wheels of those big trucks for more swept area and better cooling than any disc they could tuck under there, to reduce fade.

I still haven't seen any conclusive real world tests that satisfy me that disc systems stop faster than drum systems, but I have had front drums fade out on the highway, and that's no fun. If they'd stuck bigger drums under there, it might not have happened.


Well, being a truck driver, I can tell you that I've never seen or heard of a semi that used disc brakes. I'm sure the main reason for this is simplicity. Using a hydraulically actuated disc system on a semi would be a nightmare to engineer............and heavy!! Disc brakes are much heavier than drums. You all know how heavy an 11" rotor is. Imagine the weight of 16 or 18 inch rotors on 10 wheels!!.............+ the calipers (probably 12 or 18" long!!

That being said, there must be a reason ALL performance/sports and race cars use 4 whl discs, extra weight notwithstanding. Because they dissipate heat better, yes. But I think someone hit the nail on the head when they mentioned pedal-feel and modulation. It seems to that it's next to impossible to get drum brakes to the point where they're ALMOST locking up the wheels (maximum braking). Semis have VERY powerful brakes, but when your empty (light) the brakes have that either-on-or-off feeling. Either the wheels are locking up, or your not braking at all. Not too bad on dry ground, but in the snow......forget it. I know the air brakes are part of the culprit, but my 4 whl drums on the Chevelle are similar in a panic stop............very difficult to keep from locking up the rears.

I've been following these threads intently. I know I want to do 4 whl discs, but not sure what brand, power or manual, etc.

What about someone posting a template on how to go about doing a manual disc brake setup on a A body? As far as the size bore,calipers etc.


Also what about the actual pedal ratio? Many guys go to manual and leave the original power pedal in there. Don't you have to use a specific manual pedal to get the ratio right?


This would be very helpful to me, also.

What about someone posting a template on how to go about doing a manual disc brake setup on a A body? As far as the size bore,calipers etc.


Also what about the actual pedal ratio? Many guys go to manual and leave the original power pedal in there. Don't you have to use a specific manual pedal to get the ratio right?

This would be very helpful to me, also.

Everything on the spindles out is the same as well as the prop valve. I am using a 68 Camaro MC with 1 1/8" bore size designed for manual brakes utilizing front disks and rear drums. For the ratio, the pedal is the same but there are 2 holes on the pedal for the brake pushrod. You use a manual brake pushrod which was original equipment on the drum brake cars and install it in the upper hole just like it was on the drum brake cars. For power you dont need as much force so you use the lower hole. PM me if you have any questions.

Well, being a truck driver, I can tell you that I've never seen or heard of a semi that used disc brakes. I'm sure the main reason for this is simplicity. Using a hydraulically actuated disc system on a semi would be a nightmare to engineer............and heavy!! Disc brakes are much heavier than drums. You all know how heavy an 11" rotor is. Imagine the weight of 16 or 18 inch rotors on 10 wheels!!.............+ the calipers (probably 12 or 18" long!!

That being said, there must be a reason ALL performance/sports and race cars use 4 whl discs, extra weight notwithstanding. Because they dissipate heat better, yes. But I think someone hit the nail on the head when they mentioned pedal-feel and modulation. It seems to that it's next to impossible to get drum brakes to the point where they're ALMOST locking up the wheels (maximum braking). Semis have VERY powerful brakes, but when your empty (light) the brakes have that either-on-or-off feeling. Either the wheels are locking up, or your not braking at all. Not too bad on dry ground, but in the snow......forget it. I know the air brakes are part of the culprit, but my 4 whl drums on the Chevelle are similar in a panic stop............very difficult to keep from locking up the rears.

I've been following these threads intently. I know I want to do 4 whl discs, but not sure what brand, power or manual, etc.

Class 8 Air Disc Brakes:
http://www.kenworth.com/newspics/AirDiscBrake.jpg

Try this: http://www.foundationbrakes.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Bendix%20Air%20Disc%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf or this: http://www.foundationbrakes.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Bendix%20Air%20Disc%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

Gotta bring this back up!!

Anybody remember the cast-iron inserted aluminum brake drums GM made back then??

pdq67

Yep, I think the mighty pontiac has a option for these nifty items. I don't know if the vette ever used them, good question:beers:

While I'm here, I have 4 wheel disk and I use a GM large bore corvette master, manual. I have so little vaccum with my cam a booster would be useless and I don't like the look of it anyway.

Pedal ratio, at least 4 to 1. I have a brake pressure gauge, handy tool when setting up you brakes.

If anyone is interested, I have Praise Dyno's "brake in a box" ceramic drum brake linings for both front and rear in the trunk of my 69 Malibu. The brake kits also come with larger wheel cylinders and stonger springs....and I have manual brakes. I thought about front disk, but the cheapest kit I saw was around $700, plus it said I needed to have at least 15" wheels and I'm running 14" Cragar SS wheels. It might have been a mistake buying them, but as soon as I find someone to help me, (I hate messing with drum brakes and have very limited experience), I'll put them on.

The cost for all 4 wheels with shipping was $350. Don't know how much of an improvement they will make...but the stock brakes are really, really bad, so any improvement would be appreciated.

I'll write up my opinion of them when I get done in case someone is interested.

Check them out here:

http://www.praisedynobrake.com/bib.htm

I wanted to install 11" drums all the way around on my '67 Camaro car, but to this day, I have NEVER found anybody that will tell me what GM did to put 11" drums on the front of the '65, 375hp/396, Z-16 Chevelle!!

It is the only A/F/X car that had 11" drums all the way around.

You have to have a spindle that has the top shoe bolt moved up 3/4" vs our 9.5" forged drum spindles.

So what did they use besides a one-off factory custom spindle?? I get a lead on what that spindle is and I can darn well make the ball-joints it needs fit my car if I have to drill out and then install tapered B-J bushings or even turn one upside down??/!!

pdq67
don't quote me on this, but i believe that i read somewhere that the Z-16's used the spindles off a fullsize (Impala etc.) and that was how they were able to use the brakes they did.

Gotta bring this back up!!

Anybody remember the cast-iron inserted aluminum brake drums GM made back then??

pdq67
Typically, Buick got aluminum drums with an iron insert. Start looking for early-'60's Invictas and 225s. No promises on bearing sizes, though.

If I wanted 11" front drums and the spindles/knuckles to go with them...I'd start by comparing the knuckles on the B body Chevys to what's on the A/F/X body. Been so long since I've seen an old B body I don't remember what the knuckle looked like...

If you have problems with your drum brakes fading, install metallic brake shoes.
They are hard when cold but work very well when hot and water doesn't affect them.

All you have to do is find the shoes. :-)

Gotta bring this back up!!

Anybody remember the cast-iron inserted aluminum brake drums GM made back then??

pdq67
yeah I got a couple.........as for 11 inch drums, wouldn't 65 to 70 Big car brakes work ?

If you have problems with your drum brakes fading, install metallic brake shoes.
They are hard when cold but work very well when hot and water doesn't affect them.

All you have to do is find the shoes. :-)
Have some of them too, Lakewood shoes

yeah I got a couple.........as for 11 inch drums, wouldn't 65 to 70 Big car brakes work ?

If you get the backing plates and all the rear brakes will work on a Chevelle.
I'm not sure the front backing brakes will fit, have never tried it.

Hydroboost:thumbsup:

Read though these kind of posts for two years, while I drove my 66 with its original four wheel manual single master brakes. Would stop when you filled the master up with fluid for a couple of days. Had holes worn in the backing plates, etc.

Decided to put on a Ground Up front disk conversion kit, with no booster. Included the dual master, prop valve, all the trinkets, and I replaced the rear wheel cyls and all the brake lines.

Stops fine, straight, and will lock up when asked. Does take more pedal pressure than my other cars, but no complaints.

Prefer this over having a booster on this car.