http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-LS6-454-CHEVELLE-W-29K-ORIG-MILES-FRAME-OFF-RESTO_W0QQitemZ4635860891QQcategoryZ6164QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

I'm thinking the front stripes look right but the rears look wrong.....isn't there supposed to be a point on the inside of the stripe edges? And not rounded off like on the outter part of the stripes?

You are correct. The rears should be pointed on the inside as well. This is a common mistake on repaints. The rear stripes seem to get messed up a lot.

Be very careful of this car if you bid and go inspect it in person,esp,the matching #s on the block.

No I'm not going to bid.....they already want too much for it IMO. I don't care if it's an LS6 or not, to me a Chevelle is a Chevelle.

But if I may ask what's the warning for? See something else not right besides the rounded off rear stripes?

Several things stand out to me, the casting date on the block is 5 months after the heads, the carb date is 1-14-69 which is 15 months before a build date, so it was probably changed and the build date of the motor is awfull close to the build date of the car.

I know nothing of that car but I did have some dealing with the owner with another Chevelle he had for sale.All I can say is be very careful.If anyone is considering dealing with that guy let me know and I will relate my dealings with that individual.Dont want to post here.Buyer beware.

If I were going to bid, I would heed the warnings.

Wow! This car is at 70K already? Hope the bidder did his homework!

Wow! This car is at 70K already? Hope the bidder did his homework!

Some people have more money than they know what to do with and don't care how high they go, as long as they are the ones that win the bid. Just look at Barrett-jackson....:(

Kind of sad really. Probably some guy who worked his butt off 80 hours a week for 30 years, finished putting his kids through college and now finally wants to buy the car he's always wanted since he was a kid, his Fathom Blue LS6 dream car. He never really seriously researched his dream because he was always too busy making sure his family was taken care of first.

And when his day finally comes and he finally shows off the dream car he's waited for all his life to his knowledable car show buddies.............

Aaah, I hate to tell you this Jim, but your dates don't line out and it appears your VIN pad's been restamped. This isn't a legitimate LS6 car.

Nobody deserves that. :(

No matter how financially sucessful they've been in life.

As I posted above,if anyone here is bidding on this car check the "matching numbers" very carefully with an expert.

Auctions over, something strange though, car was at 70K last look, and it ended at 30K? Maybe the owner was fishing for what wasn't right.

Someone explane numbers matching again!
all I saw was date codes. if thats how is done hell anyone can build a numbers matching car then with just a small amount of effort.
Date code from the ring and pinion! wonder what he was trying to prove.

These date codes were way out of whack, I have an Arlington car built 05D and the block was cast Oct. 69, Heads Jan 70 and all other smaller parts following. I have the build sheet and 2 POP's. This car had a March 70 casting date on the block and the heads were cast 5 months prior. RED FLAG!

it sounds like i need some help. i am the potential buyer of this car and am travelling to see it for final inspection promptly. I am offering my email address here and hope an expert or 2 will email me back with a phone number that i may call you for assistance and conversation on this car. i don`t want to make a bad mistake (money is too hard to make). your prior comments are appreciated and thank you in advance for additional analysis. please email a phoine number i may call you at..my email is burgerfriescoke@msn.com

additional comments from the potential buyer...THATS ME...i am having a hard time seeing that most of the dates are not plausable. i understand the carburator and know it has been changed in this car. on my c2 corvette i know the transmission date is october 26, 1966 and we know the car gave birth on prox octber 29...and we have no doubt about being all original components with excellent documentation and well documented low miles. back to the chevelle.... with trans date of april 9 and body assembled on april 15. i dont understand this as an issue. the engine assemble date is certainly tight but still plausable....i wonder what date codes others have for cars of this timeframe and plant..(arlington, texas). It seems the engine stamp pad is key ...assuming it is not fabricated which i will place my eyes on shortly. i will personally verify all the part numbers and date codes..i understand some of the parts may not be original but may still be numbers and date matching. I am fairly new at the car hobby and will receive all help with great appreciation. thank you.

I'm not the expert you seek but will offer what I see. There are some seriously knowledgable people on this site and probably several Arlington LS6 owners who could better explain the potential date issues with the car.

The two big ones I see are the tranny and engine block casting dates.

The Muncie casting is 4/9/70. Now realize thats when the metal was casted. It was then cleaned up and or machined, sent to be asembled and likely unloaded and set into a staging area. Then assembled tested and shipped to Arlington Texas. Also being unloaded and shelved. Then selected and put into the car in question.
According to the dates this all happened in 6 days.

The Block was cast 3/23/70 and assembled 4/10/70 Leavng only 5 days to be shipped from upstate New York, to Arlington Texas, unloaded staged and dropped in the car.

Again I'm ony guessing how they were shipped. But I would guess rail car. As you can see that's just way too tight if not utterly impossible.

The next thing that concerns me is that with all the documentation on datecoding in the add. He didn't once mention the VIN PAd on the block. (located beind the alternator where the head meets the block.

It should say T0415CRV------- cars serial number.

T= Tonawandm, 04/15 assembly date, CRV = 4 speed LS6. Then the serial number.

All of this of course can be restamped but it concerns me that it wasn't even mentioned.

He may state it was lost because of the block being decked. Whatever the case.

The Muncie and Engine block casting dates scare me.

Go to www.chevellestuff.com and find the 1970 Arlington Buildsheet example. Print it out and compare it to the aledged partial found. Maybe an additional help in varifting if the buildheet's been bogused.

The search portion of Team Chevelle is also a very powerful tool. Type in "Arington date codes" or "Arlington built LS6" and you'll likely find examples of casting date proximities.

The auction got up to 70K so I'm assuming you spent that or more. The cars already in question and it appears DOUGA has had deelings with him and also shows concern. It also raised a red flag to me when somebody takes the time in an E-bay ad to profess how honest he is.

It may be that the car was passed off to him as a legitimate LS6 and he isn't knowledgable enough to tell you different. He stated the car was Smog delete and there was no such offering. It was federally mandated. That proves the sellers knowledge level of his own car.

Be very. very careful and Good Luck.

if it is determined that the stamp pad is legit, kosher, not doctored......and the vin portion of the stamp pad matches the vin of the car...then, is this confirmation that the car was born an LS6? Also, did cars from Arlington have the vin portion also stamped on the transmission flange by the block? maybe somebodys with Arlington cars can say yeah or nay to that regarding their cars.

"Also, did cars from Arlington have the vin portion also stamped on the transmission flange by the block?"

Yes..I have seen many Arlington built A-bodies,and they had their Vehicles CON VIN stamped on their Transmission cases.TH400's have been found with the CON VIN stamped on the machined pad,behind the rubber boot shift linkage above the oil pan & just behind the head pipe.
I can't comment on this particular Chevelle in subject,as I have not seen it in person.
It does sound unusual,but not impossible.

Numbers matching is usually the code stamped on engines, etc. not the raised date codes. Many engine codes are stamped with part of the VIN (usually production #). So these are matching #, not date stamps.

First of all, Muncies do not have a "casting" date. They only have an assembly date stamped into the case. It will be like P0D09C. It should also have the partial VIN stamped into the case. The block date and the trans dates all look feasible to me. It is what the block stamp looks like that will be the issue here. Look closely for signs of being decked and restamped. This car should also have two fuel lines to the pump, and one to the carb, as well as the longer pump. Did you speak with Doug??

First of all, Muncies do not have a "casting" date. They only have an assembly date stamped into the case.

Actually Muncies do have casting dates, but it's similar to reading an ancient cryptic gaelic text. :)

There will be 2 divided circles, one being the status marker indicating blueprint changes, the other the casting date code. The month number is typically cast on the top half of the circle and dots on the lower section represent week of the month.

The casting date on the maincase is typically below the casting number and obviously preceeds the assembly date stamp.

First of all, Muncies do not have a "casting" date. They only have an assembly date stamped into the case. It will be like P0D09C. It should also have the partial VIN stamped into the case. The block date and the trans dates all look feasible to me. It is what the block stamp looks like that will be the issue here. Look closely for signs of being decked and restamped. This car should also have two fuel lines to the pump, and one to the carb, as well as the longer pump. Did you speak with Doug??
Yes,we had a good talk on the phone.

Glad someone had a talk with him, he just saved a lot of money and a lot of heartache.

Ya'll are good. I wouldn't even think about buying a high dollar car without posting it here first for everyone to see it. Who needs docs when we have you all!!!! Ya definetly know your cars. It's great for the ones who don't.

Kind of curious what's transpired with this car.

I think he's getting back home sometime Friday.

accessing my email from the road....done in North Carolina with car but still travelling..will be home very late tonight and will tell you what i learned and direction i went with subject car tomorrow morning from my home computer.

tease! :)

Where's Hawk?

NO SALE here. thank you all for the heads up....buyer beware.

Details, Details

That's IT? Hawk, you came to this site looking for the best opinions, and you got the best! That's all you have to say!

I was a fool to put a deposit on a car i had not seen face to face. But i was not fool enough to complete the deal once i did the due dilligence i should have done in the first place. Now i didn`t get my deposit back even tho the car didn`t substantiate itself with the agreed criteria. This is not the last chapter for me with the story...and i apoligize to those of you who have followed this story with me for not sharing more at this time. There were a few of you who assisted me with personal phone calls and email messages. If you send me a note that says tell me more i will respond to those that helped me up front with more exacting details of my visit with the car.....and i will tell you where this lands when all is done. Once again i want to say thank you all for your thoughts and for some patience at the moment.

I see he has the car relisted. Looks like it's made it to 80k so far....

It's a shame that he's going to scam someone else.

Probably not the most positive experience that your overly anxious to share which is understandable. But it could have been alot worse had you went through with the transaction.

I wonder who will be tenacious enough to e-mail a warning to every subsequent bidder on this car?

Probably not the most positive experience that your overly anxious to share which is understandable. But it could have been alot worse had you went through with the transaction.

I wonder who will be tenacious enough to e-mail a warning to every subsequent bidder on this car?


Can't warn them...the bidding is private!

I e-mailed the guy earlier with a couple questions and he's still claiming everything is original, even the 4557 carb built in Jan. of 69 15 months prior to the body. Hope the private bidders to their homework.

Can't you guys contact ebay and blow the whistle on this guy?

I don't think he's doing anything illegal, just unethical. As long as you don't state "factory original engine" and imply correct numbers matching by listing the date codes, it's misleading and unethical, but not illegal. Not once did he mention the VIN PAD engine suffix, build date or serial number stampings on the block. Just casting dates.

He never really states original engine. Just correct and maybe numbers matching... What numbers?

Open to debate in a court of law.

Know your investments and know them cold.

Collectors of anything valuable encounter the same issues whether real estate, antique toys, coins or comic books.

You know Hawk, I realize ths is probably a very negative experiance for you, and you'de probably rather not even talk about it, but consider this.

Think of the guy a year from now who's in the same situation as you and considering buying an LS6, and he does a search on Team Chevelle to learn everything he can on LS6's and this thread comes up on his search.

You could very well save another individual from going through the same events you went through.

This site has grown into an incredable database for knowledge, through both good experiences and bad.

Fraudulant cars have unfortunately become a big aspect of this hobby. The knowledge you've gained from your experience could literaly save countless people in the future in helping them know what to look for and what to avoid.

I wouldn't think anyone on this site would wish this type of situation to happen to anyone and I think everyone would agree that the best way to fight these type of fraudulant transactions would be to share knowledge and lessons learned.

I apoligize if I'm putting you on the spot, thats not my intent, I'm just thinking of the next guy it happens to.

And there will be others.

Something to think about.

if you read my last posting ..i said..."i will let you know where this lands when it is all said and done". sit back be patient....i have been accused by many as being a "bulldog" when something gets under my skin. Please sit back and be patient.....i may not be a 10 when it comes to collector cars but there are things i do very well. i will let you know where things land when all is said and done..i am not letting go of this..be patient.

Well said. I agree totally. This site saved me from making bad decisions a few years back. I appreciate it, and I'm sure there are a lot more like me.

Take a look at the new ad.this car is being re-listed due to the fact that it was sold to a man in oregon, who called back two days later, literally crying, saying he had "serious buyer's remorse" and wanted me to "work with him" and give his deposit back to him...This is what he has to say about Hawk.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Chevelle-1970-LS6-454-CHEVELLE-W-29K-ORIG-MILES-FRAME-OFF-RESTO_W0QQitemZ4639695797QQcategoryZ6164QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

if you read my last posting ..i said..."i will let you know where this lands when it is all said and done". sit back be patient....i have been accused by many as being a "bulldog" when something gets under my skin. Please sit back and be patient.....i may not be a 10 when it comes to collector cars but there are things i do very well. i will let you know where things land when all is said and done..i am not letting go of this..be patient.


After reading his entire relisting I understand it's gone far beyond helping the next Chevelle enthusiast!

Go as far as you can!

Good Luck.

Enough said on this topic I think.

The cars not real, it never will be,that's the bottom line!

Hawk, drop me an email and tell me what you think is wrong with what you saw. What did the build sheet look like?