Hi Guys,

I have a 1970 Malibu that requires a frame-up rebuild. I need your help! I've been stalemated for the last 2-3 months or so trying to decide what do for the bodywork... and I'm still as undecided as ever. Help!!!


Here's the situation: The car doesn't have a *ton* of rust & looks fairly decent as-is from a distance, but it does have some amount of rust all over... some areas worse than others. Also, the previous owner had some bodywork done to both rear quarters (bondo'd) that I'd want to remove entirely. Based on what I can tell (and my wanting 'to do it right'), I figure I'd need to replace all 4 quarter panels (full quarters), plus the trunk floor, and the rear seat floor pan. The underside of the trunk lid seems to have some surface rust under the reinforcements, but seems to be fixable. I'll also need to purchase a new hood, as the original was cut for a hood scoop which I no longer want. All the work will be done myself (no shops).

The decision to be made is do I drop the $2k on replacement panels, plus <more importantly> all of the time/effort to fix.... OR, do I just make it my parts car and go looking for a better 'base' car to work with (like a Southern car, as I live in the rust belt). The pro is that it's a '70, con is it's not an SS or convertible, and (pro) I do like the car... but I don't want to be foolish in trying to restore something that I'm going to lose my shirt on.

That said, I've had an autoshop teacher friend of the family look at the car... and he basically snickered and said go find another body. Not what I wanted to hear, but he's probably right from a pure cost-benefit perspective. He also thinks the car was hit in the left rear quarter at some point in life (that I had no clue of).


So, my question to you guys is when do you call it quits? The thing that's killing me is that the car doesn't look that bad off as-is... but the time and cost to repair "correctly" really makes it an ugly investment for a non-rare car.

I've posted one shot below and here's a link to some more pics here for reference: Click Here (http://www.wale.us/chevelle_pics)

http://www.wale.us/chevelle_pics/front_0178.JPG

Would you try to save this one???

If you're doing it yourself, you're already halfway there, body shops take forever. It doesn't look that bad, I say go for it.

Thanks for the support, Shawn!


I'll let you guys in on my "Plan B" that I've been considering. Patch what I can, replace what I can't (like the quarters)... take my time and enjoy/learn from the experience. IOW, make it a 'hobby', not a 'project'. BUT, in the mean time I'll buy another car, a '70 convertible 4-speed, so that I can enjoy driving a 'velle NOW and so as to not rush the project - I mean hobby - car! :D

For what they are worth, here are a few comments. First of all, even southern or western cars often have some rust, so don't get your hopes up to find a completely rust free car.

Have you had a good look under the car? That is at least as important as what your pictures showed. Does the frame have any rust through, soft spots, or heavy flaking rust? Also, there are lots of braces, crossmembers, and nooks and crannies under there. Surface rust is common on most cars and can be dealt with fairly easily and inexpensively, but rust through or heavy flaking rust is something else.

If things look scary under the car, I probably would call it a parts car.
David

David,

I'll take a better look under the car tomorrow and report back. I know the frame is rusted - How bad, I can't say. I also need to check frame sag. The whole front end has been disassembled and on a dolly since these pics were taken. The front wasn't bad at all (just surface), but with all of the oil sledge and grime, it also had more protection than the back half.

--Brian

Thats a damn nice and complete parts car! I'd fix it no question. Your not going to find a rust free complete car for the $2000 your going to spend on sheetmetal. Looks like a nice car to restore.

FWIW, I side with the shop teacher. Even if the frame is reasonably solid, I still wouldn't rebuild it. Based on the pic that shows the rear inner fender, I suspect that car has some serious rust that isn't obvious from the pictures or outward appearances.

It's true that rust-free 30 year old cars are rare; however, that one is beyond what I would want to invest that much time and money in. I admit that I may be "spoiled". All the old cars that I've rebuilt spent almost all their lives in central and west Texas. I HATE rust!!

your auto shop freind is an ass. Fix the car. My "southern" maryland car had a lot more rust in it than that one does. If you look at these cars as an investment your in the wrong hobbie. The two years I took to restify my 72 I learned so many things and spent so many enjoyable, and not so enjoyable hours in my garage that I'll never get paid for. But that is not the point. When someone admires the car and I can tell them I built it and they praise my work... what a high.. it don't get much better than that.

And since when is any chevelle not a "valuable car?" Both of my cars are malibus. They mean just as much to me as any SS I've ever owned or saw. Everyone has an SS or a clone of one. Want a really valuable car get a heavy Chevy. If you want a are you can express yourself with keep the malibu and build what you want out of it.

Fix the car or give it to someone who will appreciate it. That car is too nice to cut up for parts and there not making any more of them.

"First of all, even southern or western cars often have some rust, so don't get your hopes up to find a completely rust free car. "

Heh, BOY isnt that the truth. LIke to see one, Here ya go-An AZ car? Probably NOT- the Grandma specials are GONE- BACK EAST. But heres whats here now (I know Im here), believe it or not- heres the pic:

http://www.azclassics.com/gmcars/69camaro/index.shtml

Care to pass your head through a Rust Hole, anyone?

on the other hand, there is a pretty nice '70 4 door parts car...for $2300!

Even the SS cars are costly to restore, and hard to turn a profit. Its funny how people always talk about turning profits in this hobby. When someone does other hobbies, are they always looking to turn a profit?! Im thinking no, but who knows.

Fix the car. Its not that bad- rusty yes. TOO rusty, Ive seen worse- NO. I think that shop teacher is jealous and just wants to discourage you from fixing it- some people like to rain on other peoples parades, unfortuntately; it somehow gives them a sense of power or something.. Maybe he wants a project and cant afford one. WHo Knows??

I WILL say, if the frame is rusted out ANYWHERE- FORGET IT. Otherwise, go for it!

Looks a whole lot better than my 64, when I started. I live in Georgia, I don't think you can find a 70 in much better shape.

Here in the great U.P. of Michigan it was hard to find a car of that vintage in that kind of shape 15years ago. I'd build it for sure. Keep in mind the structural areas need to be addressed as well, I see many people patch up these old cars just to see them bag and sag later on down the road because the repairs were only skin deep.

I'd say it's very fixable, and yeah, the shop teacher is likely an ASS who drives Mustangs.

But that's cars very fixable if YOU learn to do it, if you pay some one else it will get pricey quick. Probably $2-5k. And you can spend the same money getting a SS done if you are into the value part of it.

The only way to make $$ on these cars is to have 10-15k$$ to pickup a resto job like a vulture after a divorce, etc... And who wants that?

I'm not in the whole SS/value/investment thang, so this would be the perfect platform to learn on.

One of the places you oughta start digging into first is the panel below the rear glass that runs from quarter to quarter. If you pull the rear glass you should see some rust holes in the corners and along the lower channel.

This is an indicator when you see rust stains in the trunk with the rear inner wheel house rust.

My advice, keep it driveable as much as possible. Do work in the Winter so you can drive it. Plan projects out like, trunk floor, or 1 quarter. If you can't at least enjoy it a little bit, most people loose interest.

Professor SS said "...Your auto shop friend is an ass..."

buzzbomb said "Fix the car. Its not that bad- rusty yes. TOO rusty, Ive seen worse- NO. I think that shop teacher is jealous and just wants to discourage you from fixing it- some people like to rain on other peoples parades, unfortuntately; it somehow gives them a sense of power or something.. Maybe he wants a project and cant afford one. WHo Knows?"


Gosh! I could have sworn we could have differing opinions without belittling each other. Since I agree with the shop teacher, how should I take the above comments?

I think it's important to point out that the original poster is the only one so far who has actually seen the car up close and personal. Oh yes...one other person has seen it!! The shop teacher!! Fancy that! I still agree with the shop teacher.
graemlins/waving.gif

Man my car , in progress, is/was, 50 times worse than yours, Ive replace both rear quarters, one wheelhouse. patch paneling one fender, replacing one door replacing one front fender. Replaced the trunk pan, just patched the floors with fiberglass. I think half the fun is resurecting a musclecar from the dead. Id say keep your car and fix it, if the frame isnt to bad off. Just my opinion. Ill post pics sometime soon to show everyone.

Originally posted by vettefella:
Professor SS said "...Your auto shop friend is an ass..."

buzzbomb said "Fix the car. Its not that bad- rusty yes. TOO rusty, Ive seen worse- NO. I think that shop teacher is jealous and just wants to discourage you from fixing it- some people like to rain on other peoples parades, unfortuntately; it somehow gives them a sense of power or something.. Maybe he wants a project and cant afford one. WHo Knows?"


Gosh! I could have sworn we could have differing opinions without belittling each other. Since I agree with the shop teacher, how should I take the above comments?

I think it's important to point out that the original poster is the only one so far who has actually seen the car up close and personal. Oh yes...one other person has seen it!! The shop teacher!! Fancy that! I still agree with the shop teacher.
graemlins/waving.gif Hey now 'vettfella- I was talking about the shop teacher! The poster said "and he basically snickered "..I didnt read any "snickering" in your post tongue.gif . I read a constructive, helpful post from a differing view point, and was not referring to you in any way, nor was I in any way trying to belittle you! Just wanted to make that clear..

Actually, from teh posters description, I think the family friend was "belittling" when he snickered at Gordo's project. WHy not be more constructive- instead of sounding from Gordos description like "Heh, you must be out of your GOURD"! tongue.gif

Its a pretty safe bet that a Chevelle that needs to be restored is going to need a trunk floor, inner & outer wheelhouses,quarters and probably some floor work. Anything less than that and you have an above average car. All these parts are readily available and pretty cheap too compared to some other makes. If your not up to the task,or don't want to get involved with it that is totally fine, but sell it to someone who is up to the task.That car is far from scrapyard material.

I still think the shop teacher is an ass. Any freind that would snicker at anything I was comtemplating doing is not worth having as a freind. Shake their head, ok, snicker at me... insulting!

As far as the car being too far gone. You are spoiled Mr. Vette if you think that is too far gone for you. My car needed all new floors, 2 quarters, new fenders and a trunk lid. The car is now completely rust free and was recently appraised for nearly 30k. Guess I should have just cut it up for parts and got a rust free one from your neck of the woods. Some guys on here have brought cars back that needed frames. I just sectioned a roof on a 70 that had a crushed roof and will need new quarters and inners and front fenders before it is done. If we all scrap every car that is going to take more than a paint job to repair than this hobbie is doomed. Or maybe all of us that invest the time, money and energy in bringing one of these rust buckets back from the dead is nuts and should be kept from doing so... sounds like a theme.

If the guy doesn't think he has the money or the talent or just doesn't want to invest the time to bring it back then all I would ask is for him to turn it over to someone that does. The least he should do is locate another car before cutting that one up. What if he can't find a better one, or finds one that he could combine with that one to get what he wants. Scrap it, cut it up, junk it, it's crap... well, one mans crap is my gold mine. Aroung here that is a very typical car that 99% of us start out with. My under seat pan was gone completely, that one isn't rusted through yet. The rest of the floor from what I can see looks good. Three piece truck pan, some sand blasting and couple of creative patches and the trunk is good to go.

He asked for an opinion, you gave yours, I gave mine. You think the shop teacher is right because he looked at the car. I'm looking at the car in the pics which is as close a look as I can get and I'm saying that in "my opinion" the car is whole enough to be saved. Maybe the shop teacher doesn't have the skill to take on a project like this and therefore thinks its a write off. Maybe the shop teacher is right, but if this guy really thinks he is or trusts the shop teacher's opinion why did he ask for your's and mine?

Some of my co-workers think I'm nuts for playing with these old cars when I have perfetly good new ones but they have the common sense not to snicker at me to my face. Right or wrong, the shop teachers an ass for not giving his buddy an honest eval of the condition of the car, what would be involved and an est on the time/money which is what the guy wanted, not an insult.

Originally posted by Professor_SS:
Any freind that would snicker at anything I was comtemplating doing is not worth having as a freind. Shake their head, ok, snicker at me... insulting!Yea, thats why I posted what I did too. I agree with what you said. That would be like me saying, "Gee, what did you do? Dredge that thing up from the bottom of the Ocean?! You must be crazy!". And leaving my post as that. What exactly comes of a response like that- NOTHING. Same thing one gets when someone snickers at somebody in person..

Originally posted by Professor_SS:
Guess I should have just cut it up for parts and got a rust free one from your neck of the woods.Heh- I know you were talking to 'vettfella- BUT do yourself a favor and look that link of that Camaro I posted. That is from MY neck of the woods. Or cactuses- THE DESERT SOUTHWEST. Doesnt look rust free to me, but maybe Im just seeing things.

Gordo- If you think you can hack it, DO IT. You have nothing to lose, the experience to gain, and the fun to have while doing it. To some, it IS a hobby, and learning + doing is what makes hobbies fun, IMHO.

All I meant was, we assume, and rightly so, that you guys in the southwest have iron that is in a little better shape than we do here in the rust belt. I did look at the camaro, bad, but it's still worth something to someone. I wouldn't cut it up if I could help it. I get steamed with this idea that this hobbie is about the almighty big block SS and everything else is a parts car or that all of us that do it for the love of the sport and the actual accomplishment of bringing them back from the dead are nuts. I've owned a couple of SS, one that I bouhgt new in 72. You couldn't talk me into buying a concourse SS no-matter what the price, just not my thing. I like to work on them. Make them my own. I like to be different from the "also presented an SS, or is it really?" crowd.

Anyone that was around back then knows that the majority of us modified any car we bought as soon as we bought it anyway. The SS wheels that are on my car came from my original SS. One of the first things I did was pull those wheels and stick them in dad's barn and slap on a set of american racing mags. They were still there when we bought this car 5 years ago and now adorn my 72. None of these "valuable SSs" are original or representative of what they were in the 60s and 70s anyway so build what you want. Forget the value aspect because if it is anything worth having you have more time and money in it than it is worth and you wouldn't sell it for what you have in it anyway. If not, take up stamp collecting.

Originally posted by Buzzbomb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Professor_SS:
Any freind that would snicker at anything I was comtemplating doing is not worth having as a freind. Shake their head, ok, snicker at me... insulting!Yea, thats why I posted what I did too. I agree with what you said. That would be like me saying, "Gee, what did you do? Dredge that thing up from the bottom of the Ocean?! You must be crazy!". And leaving my post as that. What exactly comes of a response like that- NOTHING. Same thing one gets when someone snickers at somebody in person..

Originally posted by Professor_SS:
Guess I should have just cut it up for parts and got a rust free one from your neck of the woods.Heh- I know you were talking to 'vettfella- BUT do yourself a favor and look that link of that Camaro I posted. That is from MY neck of the woods. Or cactuses- THE DESERT SOUTHWEST. Doesnt look rust free to me, but maybe Im just seeing things.

Gordo- If you think you can hack it, DO IT. You have nothing to lose, the experience to gain, and the fun to have while doing it. To some, it IS a hobby, and learning + doing is what makes hobbies fun, IMHO. </font>[/QUOTE]

Ok, buzzbomb and Professor_SS, I didn't initially place as much emphasis on the snickering by the shop teacher as you guys did. If it was derisive in nature, then he's for sure a butthole.

I've never lived in the rust belt(crossing self here and I'm not even Catholic), so I'm sure my definition of a "buildable" may differ from those who do. Like I said, I may be spoiled. Although it has been over 12 years since I've sold an old car or one that I've customized, I still consider the cost of building it...parts and my labor. I may never sell one of the four "special" cars that I currently own that I built, but I feel better knowing that, if I do, the value of the car exceeds what it cost me to build it. I try to look at it from a purely objective standard first, then I can wallow in the intangible enjoyment I get from playing with these cars. I have no other full fledged hobbies at all. Cars are it. Even so, I don't want to end up with an albatross because I let my heart overrule my wallet.

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the input so far. Much appreciated. graemlins/beers.gif

70Camino (David), vettefella, Buzzbomb, baddbob71, DG and all the others who asked...
Today I broke out the shopvac and cleaned up the underside of the car (loose rust, spider webs, etc.) and then took a few pictures to show those that asked. You should be able to access them here:
Underside Pics of the Chevelle (http://www.wale.us/chevelle_pics/underside/index.html)

Some of the pics are from pretty wierd angles, and some I couldn't zoom out enough to really show what I wanted. Hope these will do.


Professor_SS: I totally agree & sorry if I insinuated that Malibus were worthless. I actually was worried yesterday after posting that sentence that someone was going to misunderstand my statement and take it that way. Truthfully, I am glad this is a Malibu as I have some pretty cool ideas that I want to do to this car (digital dash, MFI, distributorless ignition, possibly a turbo or supercharger, mini-tub, etc.), ALL things that I probably would hesitate to do to a true SS. The Malibus are great in that there the exact same cool car, but I'm more at ease with modifing/updating areas to my hearts desire w/o having to worry about ruining the originality/value.


All: Let me clarify a few things too on the shop teacher (sorry that this has caused some heated discussion). When I say 'snickered', I really meant that he asked me several times to crunch the numbers of replacing all of the body sheet metal versus finding a car that was in better shape. And I think he was getting a small chuckle in that I didn't realize what I was getting myself into time/effort wise by choosing to replace all of the panels (mulitple hundreds of hours). He's very good at what he does, but his preference is restoring old '30s and '40s (Fords?)... and I think he personally thinks of a '70 Chevelle as being more of just an older car, versus a true classic. Does that makes sense??? And again, he didn't say don't rebuild this car.. more just towards trying to find a better body from down south (to put on this frame) and save the effort/time on all of the bodywork this one will require. Again, he's not a Chevelle or even a mucle car guy.. more older cars.

So, if you guys could take a look at this last set of pics and give me a go/no-go, I'd appreciate it. My impressions after cleaning the car up tonight and snapping the pics is that most the rust on the frame and underside is just fixable surface rust. The front floor pans were replaced in 1990 (only about 7,000 miles ago, the car has been sitting, garaged for 10 years) and were rust-proofed at that time w/ the cheap arasol spray-on undercoating (which is now flaking off). The cross supports also have about the same amount of rust. I didn't see any "major" rust on the frame (holes, soft spots) anywhere - more just consistent surface rust. The rear quarters, trunk floor and rear-seat pan should probably be replaced.

So, after all that is said and done, I'm now leaning towards fixing this car & doing it myself!!! :D
Am I crazy??

In my opinion, things could look a lot worse under there! If you have the time and the interest, I would say go for it. Besides ending up with a nice car several years from now, you should learn a lot.
David

Looks about average for underneath a 33 year old car.Looks cleaner than what i started with. My 70 Chevelle was my daily driver even in the NJ salt. I'd drop a motor in it and cruise it while you fix it up. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Quote
"He's very good at what he does, but his preference is restoring old '30s and '40s (Fords?)... and I think he personally thinks of a '70 Chevelle as being more of just an older car, versus a true classic. Does that makes sense??? And again, he didn't say don't rebuild this car.. more just towards trying to find a better body from down south (to put on this frame) and save the effort/time on all of the bodywork this one will require. Again, he's not a Chevelle or even a mucle car guy.. more older cars."
/Quote

The attitude that the only classic cars are pre-58 is outdated. That was true when Musclecars were new- but now THEY are 30+ years old- and have EARNED teh right to be called classics. If hes putting out concours cars taht are taking big prizes at major events, maybe he can judge muscle cars as non classics. If not, hes got no more clout in this hobby than anyone else does. He does however have his opinion, and of couse is entitled to it. I'll bet you a dollar to a donut he hasnt turned a profit on any of his '40s Fords. If hes rodding them, they are NOT classics in many enthusiasts definition anyway.

DId you look at that Camaro I posted?! Take a look at it and print it off. Tell him after he looks at it that that car is located in AZ- BECAUSE IT IS. Lets see what reaction he has to that. He doesnt know much about the muscle car market, obviously. They ARENT a dime a dozen anymore- nor are the rust free Grandma specials parked in every other garage.

From the pics I could get (didnt seem them all- Im still in the stone ages on dial up tongue.gif ), doesnt look all that bad to me! Lots of heavy scale, but doesnt look like any holes or frame rot. If teh car had a rotten frame, I PERSONALLY would forget about it. But that doesnt look like the situation here ???

Ultimately its up to you. Buy a turnkey driver, have someone elses car. Do a project, have your own. It all boils down to that. And I have seen far worse cars than yours that became projects. Instead of criticizing you, your friend should lend a hand if he can. Thats IMHO.

Ok, here is my advice. I still think the car looks well within someone's ability to make a great car out of it. It also does look like a project that you could do some heavy modification on without destroying a "collector" car and it would be aheck of a learning experience and quite an accomplishment when it is finished.

I don't know your skill level which actually is less important than your level of tenacity. I spent every spare minute and thousands of dollars restifying my 72 over a two year period. There were times when I regreted ever starting it, but I had the tenacity to stick with it. I hate to leave anything unfinished.

Your car needs, new trunk floors, maybe some additional floor panels. This involves dropping the tank, cutting out the old panels, blasting or wire brushing the area, welding in the new panels, sealing with seam sealer, using por or a similar product to finish. You'd need to then clean up that bottom, at the least it needs a wire brushing and a coat of por or cooreless. I'd attempt to blast it and then finish it but that is more work.

You have some bad mounts there. You could pull the body after the floors are fixed or just replace them one at a time. Looks like it needs inner fenders in the rear, or at least lower sections for them. I replaced the rusted sections instead of replacing the entire inners, but that was because the majority of the upper structure on my inners were in good shape. You want to mini tub it anyway so your going to replace or modify the inners anyway so what difference does it make that kind of shape they are in?

Looks like you at least need lower quarters but then we can't tell what kind of condition the area at the base of the rear windows is in. I have patched those areas in and hung 3/4 quarters with great success, but again that is a personal call. The frame looks good from what I see. Again, a good clean up and some good rust encapsulator goes along way if your not interested in taking it down to the frame and blasting...etc...

Trunk lid is cheap, cheaper than fooling with one that has rust up inside the webbing. Hood, not bad and you'll want a domed one anyway. Front fenders, again patch panels or repops. I'd attempt to rent/buy a blaster to get after that underside and firewall rust, mine is from harbor freight and works great. I've also seen good results with high pressure washers and professional stripping/dipping places. Don't blast flat panels like the roof or sides of the car with your sand blaster, but you can use it on door jams and around the window channels and the underside, interior floor where warping is not an issue.

Or, roll it back into a corner and go looking afor a better car. Just keep in mind, these car are no longer a dime a dozen as someone mentioned. Your freind might think he knows where 2 dozen of them are that are in better shape than that one, but find one before getting rid of the one you have.

That car is a project; only you can decide if your up to it. I'd go for it, but I have 1-1/2 chevelles, a 55 and a datsunZ under my belt and I just never give up. After a long day of putting up with 13th graders I love nothing more than to cut, grind/wrench and swear at a rusty old hulk like that.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

Man, I wish mine was in as good a shape as when I started!

I don't agree with driving it while you fix it, but just my opinion. I'd yank the body and do a frame-off. I found more rust hiding behind things that I ever suspected. Besides, the body mounts are likely to need changing along with a lot of others tuff.

I can't tell you how much easier it is to build up the frame with a drive train and exhaust with the body off.

That frame would look awesome with a sand blasting and powder coating or POR-15.

Sure there are some sheet metal in need of replacing. Big deal.

I agree with do it yourself. I took a class in welding, bought an air compressor, and went to the school of hard knocks. It gets frustrating, and depressing at times, and has taken me about 2 years to get half way done. But it hasn't stopped me, and when I am done I'll know I can have pride in knowing that not only is it an awesome car, but I saved it, and I know I did most of it myself. Besides, that's the best way to build it and modify it how you want.

A hobby it is. It makes a big difference when you have the time, the tools, the money for parts to fix it over time and don't NEED to drive it to work the next day.

Steve

To me, that car looks fairly decent and repairable. If you're looking to try some major cutomization to the interior and engine then it would be a good project car.

See your frame back-mid left pictures showing the control arm? I've got a frame in the shop right now that needs that whole area rebuilt. But, it's from a 68 Beaumont convertable and there were only 450 of that model built. Will the car ever be worth that much work? I don't know and don't care.

I work on cars because I like doing it. In all honesty, I'm not even that big on driving them all the time, just on weekends or when I'm trying some stuff. I've likely got 15k into an Impala that would only get 5k if I sold it but so what? I had fun doing it (well, most of the time).

The big thing to ask yourself is if you're willing to commit to that big a project. You're likely looking at 2 to 3 years and a fair bit of money to completely re-do that car. Then, you need stuff like a welder, torch, grinders, air tools etc to make life easier while doing it. Starting something like that and getting in over your head means it will either end up a pile of parts sitting around for years or you'll be selling it. Dad had that Impala 25 years ago and I got it from him 15+ years ago and it hadn't been licensed since. I had it stored because I didn't have the money for a lot of years to work on it.

Another good thing is that this is a great time to be working on cars of that age (or any car). There are tons of aftermarket parts available and the performance stuff that's out there is amazing. Brakes, engine, transmission, suspension, you name it - it's available.

Peter

You guys don't want to know what we would call "beyond hope" around here in CA, this car would not be repaired.


Between my brother and I we have had about 10 '65 Gran Sports, Skylarks and Sport Wagons. NONE of them needed ANY floors. My Gran Sport is the worse we ever had with a hole about he size of a quarter in the right front floor board. My '65 Sport Wagon didn't even have any rust in the windows in the roof. A guy from Mich. came out here and drove it back smiling all the way.

The point of my torture is, it is all relevant. Around here these cars would not be repaired. In your area, it is what you have to work with so you do it. If not for the repro parts available none of these cars would be repaired, that is for sure.

I think you have to think more of is it the "norm" in your neck of the woods. If everyone says it is nuts, there may be a good reason.

Your shop teacher may be thinking in your best intrest. I have to say, I have seen a few cars that I just wounldn't think of fixing, but someone is doing it. I just feel that it is better to find the car you want that is better. If this car is the "norm" in the area, that may be out of the question. It really comes down to what is the "norm" in your area.

I think that car is the norm anywhere is the US except Ca. Tx and Az. smile.gif

Originally posted by 70isfine:
I think that car is the norm here, not in ....Az. smile.gif WRONG. Not Rusted as bad, but rusted nonetheless. Its a difference between fixing one Door skin instead of two, 1/2 the trunk instead of teh whole. Only part of the rear window. I ve seen projects here dented so bad, you would swear that the Yankess used the stupid car as a backdrop for pitching practice,but it was "rust free" LOL! And thats worth all the expense of flying out here, trailering it home, paying twice as much for it to start with, food, motel, and waiting FOREVER for one to turn up? When all along the plan is to do it yourself? If the frame is good on a "Rust Belt" car, heh- whatever, I guess. LIfe is short.

Whats the difference if you have to cut a bunch of tiny little pieces out, instead of one big one. If you think Im BS'ing you- LOOK at the link I posted . Thats an extreme example, BUT thats whats here project wise. There was a time when the rust free cars were coming out of peoples ears here, but they also went right out of the state towards the Atlantic Ocean for the most part. Am I saying there are NO rust free projects here, of course not. Good luck finding one. Somebody has to be selling in order for you to be buying- and when they do sell, hold on.

No matter what everyone says it all comes down to you.
I miss living in southern CA and New Mexico for the lack of rust. I am now in Florida. I took two years looking for my 65 wagon. In the last two years have learned to weld, fabricate, and scrounge for parts. Its rusty, came out of the northeast. I get a new surprise every month. This months was the body mount tower behind the rear wheel, lower 2 inches Gone! But its what I wanted, for the money I had to spend. When, if ever, I manage to finish, I can say I did it. For now its been worth every moment/penny spent. I am in for just over 3k to date. I hope to keep it under 6k with paint, time will tell.

About your project, do what feels best, its yours now.
John C.
My 65 2 dr Wagon (http://home.att.net/~johnyac/)

I vote to save it.

The 68 Malibu in my sig was in need of some help in the quarters, and when the trans left go, I sold it cheap.

Regreted it, ever since, but that was 1988, and who knew even malibus would be as desireable as they are now.

Yep, you can spend a lot more than the car is worth to restore it. But if you hold on to it long enough, I'll bet the value comes up.

I've done more work on my 68 SS-396 than any other car I've ever owned. And it is my sentimental favorite because of it.

I don't know for sure, which of my cars is the most valuable, but I know which one I value most.

I've seen worse cars restored. A friend of mine has a 66 Mustang convertable, that will make a die hard chevy man drool, and when we pulled the rug out, the were holes big enough to put your face through in the floor. That car had more holes than a doilie, now its black with a red gut late model 5.0 engine and 5 speed.

Will say that a numbers matching SS Chevelle might be a better project but those are getting harder to find and might be in worse condition. There is no doubt that a lot of people have stuck SS badges and stripes on their cars because they are trying to increase the value. That happens all the time but sometimes the owner just wants the look because they couldn't afford or find an SS car. Sometimes not.

I've never rebuilt a Chevelle but have rebuilt several other cars, trucks, and bikes. Never really made a dime of profit off any of them with the exception of a few Harley Davidsons. Never really intended to make a dime off them and in some cases lost money in HAVE TO SALES.

Do remember a friend talking me out of buying a Texas area 1966 Malibu 327 4 speed car because it would cost to much money to re-do back years ago. It wasn't a numbers matching car although it ran/drove great, had a gutted interior, totaled passenger rear quarter, and in better condition then your questionable car. I regret that decision to this day.

If you scrap or part it out then the ones that are left running around become even more rare for fewer numbers and their value increase. Know what I mean?

I vote save it with a frame off restoration or let someone else have it. Someone mentioned the body mounts are shot. I say, "so what a lot of older cars and trucks need frame mount repair during restorations." Have seen worse. It'll just take more time, money, and your experience will grow. There are plenty of places to get replacement panels & parts.

Good Mark saved a Chevelle about like yours just to show people it can be done. Of course they are also hoping you'll spend your money with them. Look at it however you want. If you don't want that project car then pass it onto someone that does.
http://www.goodmarkindustries.com/Chevelleprojectintro.htm

Check out Normie's Chevelle:

http://www.normiesplace.com/chevelle/ (http://www.normiesplace.com/chevelle/)

ANY vehicle's worth is only that amount to which a buyer is willing to hand over for payment. In 10-20 years from now might regret letting that one get away then again you might not. Your funding, skills, and personality has a lot to do with your own decision. Somethings are just a labor of love. While others can view it as a bad divorce.

As someone else mentioned it is BEST to find a Restored Chevelle/Malibu that someone else has done or had done and is in a HAVE TO SALE situation. Their loss is your gain if it is only about saving money. Those situations do happen.

Good Luck

hello, im in the process of restoring a 67 4 door chevelle. judging from the pic you provided mine is in a little worse shape then your car..... im replacing the sheet metal and and floor braces. a lot of work but its well worth it. mine is a 4 door so i dont think it will be worth much but i prefer the 4 door model... so what im trying to say is definitely fix it!!!!!!!!!! these cars are too beautiful to give up on. its definitely worth saving.

After looking at your pictures, my 1966 Chevelle is in similar shape, but slightly better. I am planning to do a rebuild myself and again the car is only worth as much as you are willing to put into it. My car for example is priceless to me because I drove my wife to the reception hall and back home again in the Chevelle the day we got married and the memories are too much to get rid of. To a lot of people they see the rust spots that have formed and wouldn't look twice at it. If you love the car and you have some higher attatchment to it, by all means rebuild it. You have my vote. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Kevin C

I bought my car here in Houston 1 1/2 years ago and found out afterward that the car spent it's first 25 years in New Jersey !! OUCH ! It had/has quite a bit of rust, but I have been enjoying working on cleaning it up. Your chassis looks fine. Wire brush and clean it thouroughly and apply a coat of POR-15 and it WILL look fantastic.
Replace any panels that cannot be reasonably repaired. I'm planning to shoot mine myself with a basecoat/clearcoat when I get the body as cleaned up as possible. I will worry about replacing sheetmetal and final body work (by professionals later on.

Bottom line is, it appears you have a fine car to work with and it will surely be great when your done. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Well after all of the feedback and a few days to digest it, I've decided I'm going to rebuild her. The plan if I moved forward was always to do a body-off-frame, ground up restification. It needs it. And I figure since I've heard from several sources here that the '70 Goodmark panels are pretty good, that will help keep some of the finanial costs down vs NOS.

Thanks to everyone for their input! graemlins/beers.gif

PS. I'm still sticking w/ Plan B. Need a driver while I'm workig on the project car!!!

Gordo,

Good luck and keep us posted!

Kevin C graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Hey Guys,

Can anyone point me to another thread/place that describes the correct approach to taking on this bodywork? Is the there a Martin Sr. 'Basics of Basics' on sheetmetal replacement?

What I'm struggling with is whether I should trailer the car to get the whole body media blasted (so I know where all of the problem areas are)... but, assuming it's going to take me 6-8 months to all of the work, how do I keep the metal from rusting after being blasted? Media blast, take pictures, then immediately prime? Or is there some form of clear primer I should use that's easy to work with?

I was planning on chemically stripping and ecoating the body and frame AFTER all of the fix-it work was done (as the place is right down the street from me), but I'm now debating what the best approach would be start to finish.

--Brian

hate to say it but thats the way they come some a little better some worse. if your looking for a car to restore you have one most 70 needs everything quarters floors fenders. 34 years is a long time for something to stay rust free. i say go for it with new panels and a lot of welding you'll have a nice clean chevelle. if you want one mostly done you;ll pay more and who knows how it was really done . bondo over rust half ass welds etc so your not that bad off a least you got a chevelle to start with you got guys on here cant even find one. by the way if you want to sell let me know.storm

since you asked, here is my opinion, there is no right answer, only one right answer for you. it comes down to what you want. i have hobbie cars that i am doing and have done that i wanted pristeen. imean nos everything. then i have cars which i consider drivers that i dont mind patching with fiberglass and bondo and doing a decent job on. you could take this car in either direction. what do you want? if you plan on driving it a lot dont bother with all the new steel, just strip it, por-15 it, glass and bondo it paint it, and drive it. if someone slams into the back of you, you will be glad you did not do all that steel work. if you want to get into an expensive and drawnout restoration, go fo it but not for the money like some people said, you need to do it for the love of the journey. however you are asking a question that i think many of us have asked. for some the specific car has signifigance or sentimental value. if thats not the case, take a gander at what is available for you, if you can find what you want in better shape, it would be a big advantage to have all the inner structures not need fixing. then i would sell yours complete, dont part it out! even if there is frame damage dont let that be the deciding factor. frames can be fixed or replaced. not a big deal. if nothing comes your way commit to the car and dont look back. so thats my advise, decide what YOU want out of the car, and are you prepared for a full restoration?, if not put yourself ahead of the game by finding a better base line. personally the car looks great for a quick resto and a great driver. i just faced the same decision on my wagon, i sought after a fust free wagon and i found one darn close to 100% rust free in texas. it will save me from replacing the inner wheel wells, rockers and quarters among other inner structures. so even though i am paying a lot for shipping, it is miles ahead of where i would be. plus its all original metal still.

I agree. There is no right answer. If we all bought cars that were perfect we wouldn't be restorers or fabricators at any level... insted we would be more like Jay Leno who buys to collect. I bought my 68 not wanting to do much sheet metal work, a few months later I met Rick at a car show and his car inspired me to go all out,(thanks Rick and I still want to work on your new one when things calm down here, I am now planning a wedding for 11/4!) so I bought a welder and now I perfer to be able to buy a sheet of steel and replace a section than stuffing a hole with putty.
Anything can be replaced, repaired, or removed all together and we as americans do tend to throw things away insted of holding on to them. Not us; not the folks who want a car that uses more gas per mile than most, not the people who want a bit of grumble out of the rear end, not us americans who want to spend time and lets face it money just to be able to say we built something from nothing. In all actuallity this hobby incorporates restoration, restification, and conservation all into one... whether we call it hobby or project it will always be fun. When its all said and done, we have something thats our own, something most want but don't have and something that means something to us. Every little mistake sticks out to us but we will always have the story of why the mistake is there in our memory. All and all, every car could be saved, it just might take 5 cars to save one in the end. graemlins/beers.gif