Pretty basic opinion question. What is the redest red out there? I have heard Viper red, but am almost ready to start painting the car, and I want a striking red. So, any suggestions?
Thanks,
Chris

Viper Red. http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/WilliamHennke/Mvc-643f.jpg

All my life I have heard "I rather be dead than red on the head". Do ya think thats why I like red?

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/RickBandy/scan0020.jpg

I would look at a C5 Vette in Torch Red.

I'll tell you, Viper red is not very red. If you put reds together next to one another you find out real fast some you may "think" are red are far from it. Ferarri red is the reddest red there is as far as I know. There are some paint systems that can't even be used because the toners need to be very "Clean" to make this red.

Dodge makes a nice red in Fire Red, PR4 is the code I believe from the mid 90's...Eric

Porsche Red????
Gerry.....

Originally posted by 1970SS396&1967:
Porsche Red????
Gerry..... It is known as "Guards red" and a very popular color in the street rod world. But it is NOT very red, it is very orange. Again, if you saw it painted on a car, it would look red. Park a Ferrari red car next to it, it'll look like compitition orange (which isn't a bad thing).

I chose a red for my truck back in 79. A friend of a friend pulled in the driveway with her new Chevy whateveritwas and I fell in love with the "bright" red it was. I got the color code off of it painted my trck that very color. It looked good.....until I was at my first rod run and a Ferrari red 34 Ford parked next to it. My GOD, it looked dead, it looked like red primer.

http://members.aol.com/basicofbasics/truckside.jpg

Marlboro red sprayed as a tri coat.

Another vote for C5 Vette torch red.

CM's Victory Red is a "RED" color Toyoto has a RED simular to Farrari's Blood Red

Duhhhh "GM's " Victory Red...

Don't know about how red it is but I like the name: '04 GTO "Arrest Me Red"

C5 torch red has alot of orange in it...if you want a red that has no orange or brown in it..i would look into a European red. I painted my daily driver BMW Electric red..and it was the reddest of reds i could find. Victory Red is a nice red also..alittle dark for my tastes in red however.

Originally posted by MARTINSR:
There are some paint systems that can't even be used because the toners need to be very "Clean" to make this red. I used Glasurit 'toning' red over K200 to shoot mine, in sig.

Originally posted by THORSS70:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MARTINSR:
There are some paint systems that can't even be used because the toners need to be very "Clean" to make this red. I used Glasurit 'toning' red over K200 to shoot mine, in sig. </font>[/QUOTE]So your car is Ferrari red? Man that is beautiful. If it isn't Ferrari, what color is it. Its really nice.

Thanks for the help guys. I am going to go to the Ferrari dealer near my house and take a look soon, and go from thier to a Dodge dealer that has a new Viper and compare the colors. I am pretty sure it is between those two colors.
Thanks
Chris

Ford's "Bright Red" E4 is pretty good as far as being more red than orange...

Mike

RedSS, no not Ferarri red, it's just off the shelf Glasurit single stage 'toner' red. This is not a factory color of any kind, just off the shelf grab it and go red.

I use to be a good customer of my local supplier, went in the back, and on the mixing shelves they have to hold the base colors on had this mixing red on it. I thought it was the most attractive pure red I have layed my eyes on so it's on the car.

Sorry I forgot the batch #, I just threw out the original can too after 14 years. I know they probably use the same color, find a BASF dealer and see what you can come up with.

Craig, you may have "Ferrari red", that is almost exactly what it is on most systems. Just one toner, the reddest toner, and a drip or two of another burgundy or something, that is it.

Quite possibly Brian, but they did disclose that the Ferrari red was a different batch #. It has been many years, but from memory that's it. I wish I would have written down that #, things you overlook when moving smile.gif

Don't laugh...but take a look at 02-05 MINI Cooper Chili Red. It's a really nice deep red color. :D

confession...I have a Chili Red 03 MINI Cooper.

Originally posted by 69malibu3speed:
Don't laugh...but take a look at 02-05 MINI Cooper Chili Red. It's a really nice deep red color. :D
confession...I have a Chili Red 03 MINI Cooper. Aside the color of the car, the mini cooper is one of the only modern cars that I actually fit in :cool: I am 6'9" and have a hard time finding cars that fit me. One of the reasons I have not purchased one is the social aspect, I would look pretty funny climbing out of a 'mini' and being a giant...wonder what that would look like tongue.gif

What paint manufacturer is able to make the Ferrari Red and how does it compare to GM's Torch Red? My car will be painted in a few weeks and I'd like to pick the brighter color for the car if possible.

It is another red 70 SS you know........lol

Most all paint companies use the same toners, just different numbers.If you could figure out the name of toner it would help. I'll check out my Standox stuff Monday.

Mike, most companies most certainly DON'T use the same toners. That is what sets them apart, some companies will match certain colors better than others, that has a LOT to do with the toners you have to start with.

AHHHH , fraid not. If you look at the TONER NAME most are the same. Course bein in the paint industry for 10 years and another 10 sprayin cars you prolly know more about this than I do. You are a bodyman correct???

I'm not taking sides but i have mixed Dupont and now using RM and the toners have completely different names and numbers. If they were the same you could mix any paint type from any formula right? I know you cant take a Dupont formula and mix it with RM toners. If the toners are the same why do suppliers that sell more than one paint line have toner banks for each paint line? Maybe i am taking sides Martins right.

The pigments to make these toners are natural pigments right?? Do you have red oxide, yellow oxide , rubin red, to name a few???
How much BASEMAKER do you add to that Dupont??? Strengths are all different, and last I checked you WEIGHED the toners to get a color. Of course Martin's right he always is ;)

I dont know if i'm understaning you Mike. The toners can not be substituted from one line to another. Each line has different pigments. Each line can use different pigments to achieve the same color. Basemaker is added after the color is mixed so that point is moot. RM for example uses all toners to mix, say a pint of paint.Dupont on the other hand will use maybe a quarter pint of toners and then uses a binder and/or balance to make up the rest of the pint.(maybe that explains the weak coverage?) No Rubin red in Dupont or RM.There are your basic red oxide,yellow oxide ect. but thats were it ends. Dupont uses powder pearls,RM uses liquid pearls and not one have a name in common. I don't remember the Dupont toner names off the top of my head but i do know other than the red and yellow oxides none others are the same. And i would bet that the red and yellow oxides or even the staight white and black are not the same. I do remember Dupont has a low strength black and a high strength black. Rm has about five blacks. One is Lamp Black. I know Dupont doesn't have Lamp black. Yes you weigh the toners,thats true.But Home Depot weighs the color when they mix house paint so whats your point? Each paint line has unique toners. If they where all the same there would be absolutely no difference between each paint line and i think we can all agree thats not true.

Mike, I was a rep for S-W for a number of years. I worked on the "inside" with phone numbers of the technical dept and color lab on the speed dial of my cel phone for goodness sakes. If toners "were all the same" you could simply buy some omni toners for your Dupont chromabase system, is that what you are saying?? HOLY CRAP, that would turn the paint industry on it's friggin ear!!!

The RAW pigments are natural, the RAW pigments are bought from the same sources many times. HOWEVER, each individual company makes the toner with thier own "concoction" of solvents, resins, grinds of pigments (the finer grinds cost more but produce the "Cleanest" colors)etc. This would change the amounts needed for a particular formula. For that matter, ALL these colors you use were "hand matched" by real live people. How in the heck could one forumula be the same as another company when it was matched by two different people on two different continents?

When I needed a color matched for a customer I sent a sample of that color to the color lab in Chicago for one of the woman (YES most color labs are made up of women, they have a better eye than men for color) and they matched the color. Why would they need to do that when the color was available on another paint line? How about when a color COULD NOT be matched because the toners were not "clean" enough. There are many paint lines where you simply CAN NOT match a color like say,COKE red or Ferrari red because there isn't a toner "clean" enough. WHY?

Man, if they were all the same God only knows what the average bodyshop mixing bank would look like!

Names on the can really don't mean a thing. How many names could POSSIBLY be used over the years?

Now, that is just on the color issue, we havn't even gotten to the "technology" issue. You have "acrylic enamel" based systems like S-W Ultra/BASE and Duponts Chromabase, then Urethanes like Duponts Chromapremier and PPG's DBU, then Polyester systems like Glasurat and others. Mike, this is one area I really don't fully understand. This may be what you had heard. The "toners" are somewhat "universal" to some degree. On some systems the same toners are actually used in many different qualitys like acrylic enamel AND urethane or even synthetic enamel! It is the "mixing clear" or "binder" that makes the toners used urethane, enamel or whatever. So, someone could have given you the impression that "all toners where the same".

We used the red from a '98 Grand Prix on our '72 Lemans and are very satisfied with it. When parked beside other red cars this colour can make them look pretty dead. Under the night lights it doesn't get the orange color either.

Keith that is probably Flame red. My Grand Prix is the same color.Not as orange as Torch red.

I was a color matcher for 6 years, matching everything from lipstick to car colors for chip books. We used ONE paint line, and I agree the cheaper paints have dirty toners. I also worked at Benjamin Moore as a color matcher and mixer. We made all our own toners using raw pigment.I also worked in the lab at PPG for 2 years and we could weigh the toners out and eye match from there, try tinting 5,000 gallons of paint. Each company makes their own tints, obviously each is different in weight , which is how we mix the paint.
I guess I should have said the better paint lines have similar toners.Nobody TOLD me any of this, I speak from EXPERIENCE. Those numbers you had on speed dial is where I worked!!!Colors do need to be made with similar tints or they become Metameric ( look different in daylight, incadescent and flourescent) Don't know why I bother posting in this forum graemlins/clonk.gif


I don't have chips for Ferrari colors so I would need a paint code to search it.

Mike, you are very confusing (or is that confused?). You make a statment, I politly disagree, you come back with personal snide remarks, then after I and others support the notion you were wrong you come back, AGREE you were wrong with a bunch of facts that ALL support you being wrong on the first comments (metamerism is the PROOF toners are different from one manufacture to the next) but still you are mad.

Why in the world would you be mad at us?

In my signature, my car is GM "Torch red", alot of people comment that it looks more orange. But that's OK, brighter = better IMHO.

I painted mine an Audi Red. Very bright color. Check it out at http://community.webshots.com/user/ljohnson72

Not mad at anyone, I worked in those labs you talk about and have MADE the tints, just speaking from EXPERIENCE. Metamarism proves they used the wrong tints, like using green instead of black and yellow .It's the color of eyes that has to do with seeing color, blue is best, brown is the worst. You have your opinion and I have mine, no problem. graemlins/beers.gif

Mike, I respect your experiance, if I have a disagreement, I state what it is. If someone proves me wrong, I can accept that (it happens all the time smile.gif ) .

So, let me pick your brain. Metamorism, you have two different panels painted the "same" color with two different manufactures paints. If you wanted to match one, how do you know what toners to add that would create or eliminate the metamorism effect?

1. Can you KNOW which toner to add, the green where green was used or the black and yellow where the black and yellow were used? In other words, by looking at the color can you KNOW which to use for your tinting so the color will match in with all light sources? I know I can match a color pretty good, but I was never taught anything like that. Is this part of the procedure and possible when matching that I don't know?

2. We agree the toners are "custom blended" by the manufacture (you made them yourself). Sooo, my impression has been that the TONER was different from one manufacture to the other and that was the cause of metamarism. If one brand of paint used a little yellower shade oxide red or a bluer red than the other color well..then the color two colors would have a different look when exposed different lights. I find metamarism exists in colors that only used a couple of toners, none of which should cause a problem, yet they do.

believe it the britness and the color of any red paint can be changed by the lighting that its sprayed under you can have the same paint applyied in the sun it will be brite red with lots of orange take the same paint spray a car under flourecent light you get a deep dark red i know this for a fact so no matter what color red your spraying the light will have an effect i did two cars with one gallon the color change was amazing

ive also heard red is one of the hardest colors to match

Originally posted by 32fire:
believe it the britness and the color of any red paint can be changed by the lighting that its sprayed under you can have the same paint applyied in the sun it will be brite red with lots of orange take the same paint spray a car under flourecent light you get a deep dark red i know this for a fact so no matter what color red your spraying the light will have an effect i did two cars with one gallon the color change was amazing Fire, you aren't saying that the light you are SPRAYING the paint under will change it are you? That is not correct by any stretch of the imagination guy.

Lighting can effect ANY color. Different lights have different shades of color in them. Pure white light like sun shine have an even "Spectrum" of colors, red, orange, yellow and others. Lights like Florescent have more blue, yellow, or red for instance. So the MORE the blue in the light, the less the blue that is in the color will reflect back to your eye (or is it the other way around, I forget now).

That red on my truck looked like a friggen BROWN when under on a quarter mile stretch of my home town main street. In that area they had put in some mercury vapor or some crap street lights that shined a very yellow light. If I robbed a bank and someone saw me under those lights the cops would never find me I'll tell you that. The truck looked completely different.

But NO, painting it under a certain light won't change the color forever, only while you are painting when it is exposed to that light will it will APPEAR different.

believe it the britness and the color of any red paint can be changed by the lighting that its sprayed under you can have the same paint applyied in the sun it will be brite red with lots of orange take the same paint spray a car under flourecent light you get a deep dark red i know this for a fact so no matter what color red your spraying the light will have an effect i did two cars with one gallon the color change was amazing If the paint was from the same container and the same mix then it will be the same exact color. type of light while spraying has no effect on the color. different spray techniques can influence the look of metalics but should do nothing to solid colors. IMO if there was a difference between the two objects sprayed with the same batch of paint the reason would be the undercoat color differences or one job had more paint applied while the other is showing more of a transparency. Red's do seem to darken when they dry, you can notice a differnce from what they look like in the can to what the sprayed results are on the car. I've sprayed many reds that looked way to bright in the can only to find the match is perfect when sprayed on the car, just one of those things I guess. BOb

Reds do darken a lot when dry.
Martin, We had light booths that had all three lights in them. If you looked under incadescent light the green in the color showed bright green.Some colors were hit or miss, or by comparing the toners themselves.
Ever wonder why they have two reds that look really close or blues?? That is because usually one will work faster in a certain light. Usually a little different shade of tint will not cause metamerism. It is because of a wrong tint was used. You can fudge the metamarism a little if you know what tints do what in different lights.The reason it really shows up when only a couple toners are used is no (fudging) is possible and the comletely wrong toner was used, if that makes sense?
As I stated before, each company uses pretty much the same color tints, not consistency or strength. So if you picked the cleanest red from your mixing system it would be comparable to the cleanest red from another system.
Just to add, the companies NEVER supplied formulas to match any of these colors, we had to figure them out without making too much "GUVNO" which I beleive means crap in Polish!!! :D

yes i am read on the can it says photo chemical reactive and iv seen it first hand its true the light has a permenent effect on the tint of the color try it yourself if you dont believe me also im only a hobby painter and dont know to much about painting

im very excited my son and me are building a paint booth right now no more drive way jobs our projects ahead are my 30 model a and 3 1950 chevy trucks one rod one stocker and one were making into a convertable then iv got a 89 z24 convert thats ready for paint good hobby

If you want Red,try Porsche's India Red or the Ferrari Red. Both will blast your retinas.

HOK Blue Blood Red

look at the neck of someone from ohio near KY boarder. they didn't name them cincinnati REDS for nothing.