I've read both sides of the POR15 thing, and I've got to post my test results.

A year ago I got my daily driver repainted and bought a car cover for it. Having it blow off a couple of times, I decided to use a couple of old GM disc/hubs for cover-anchors w/ bungee cords. I cut some rubber for the bottoms (so I didn't sound like I was dropping anchor everytime I put on the car cover), and painted them with the leftover POR15 semi-gloss from painting my brake components.

That was a year ago. The rotors were badly rusted...not quite, but almost flaky. I had planned on taking them in for scrap, but they sat outside the winter before in the rain. I painted right over all the scale and rust, zero prep. Practically forgot about the 'test' until reading some recent posts on POR15 flaking off when hit with anything.

I took my largest gorilla bar to one of the rotors yesterday and smacked it good...I'm not exaggerating when I state that I think I dented the metal through the paint. Yes, there is a small steel-colored spot with a halo of rust where I hit it hard, but I couldn't peel away any paint w/ my fingernail. Btw, these rotors were in the elements all winter, holding on my car cover, and no rust ever broke through the paint, and never wicked under the edges where I didn't paint. Some had peeled back from the edge of the hub from the rubber bungee, but as I had said...I didn't prep at all...that's the end where the dust cap goes, and I'm sure there was a little grease residue around the nose.

I'm spraying this stuff on my frame this summer w/ HVLP, and don't have any doubt that after dipping the frame I'm not going to have any problems. However, having read the bad experiences, I do plan on testing it on a couple small pieces before spraying the frame, as I'm of the belief that some 'unknown' part of the prep process caused the horrible 'flaking' experiences I've read about here. I've not used 'Metal Prep', and plan on experimenting on junk pieces before I use it on anything I care about. I've always used phosporic acid, or etching primers, to prep bare metal. I don't know as yet what's in Metal Prep, but that's next on the research list.

If you doubt my results, and never have tried this stuff, try a 'starter kit' for $15 and see for yourself before passing judgement. I was so thrilled with the test results of their hi-temp silver that I used it to paint my rotors and calipers.

In my humble opinion, this stuff is at least as tough as powder coat, and perfectly suited for the frame, suspension, and brake components (in the absence of powder coat).

I'm sold, and I'm a cynic.

JR

Roger that, I feel more comfortable with my decision to use it now and I have prepped it with metal ready. Hasn't been on long enough to know if it will perform well, but in my experience with military aircraft is goes on just like the green primer we use and that stuff will never corrode under and is like it is part of the metal itself.

Thanks for putting your info on here.

Marty

Painted my second coat on the frame about two weeks ago. Two days after that, we were "manuvering" it under the car when the jack that was holding it up suddenly stopped and the frame came crashing down onto my garage floor. Took the paint off the garage floor along with some small flakes of concrete....all I had to do was dust off the frame.....looked like I still just painted it. Trick is to do at least two coats!!!!
Love the stuff....

Four yrs. ago, I did the frame of my '69 w. two coats of POR 15, per the instructions. The frame had been sandblasted and then wiped down. I have driven the car almost 5,000 miles since then and haven't done anything special to the frame. Last week, I crawled under the car and really cleaned things up and it still looks practically like new. There are no chips that I can see but I didn't look at every square inch either. I would use it again in an instant. Can't say whether it's the two coat thing or I was just lucky but it sure worked for me! I just put it on with a brush-nothing special there either.

i have been a believer for a long time now. ;)

Originally posted by Ike:

I'm spraying this stuff on my frame this summer w/ HVLP, and don't have any doubt that after dipping the frame I'm not going to have any problems.
JR You might want to think twice about dipping the frame. You'll never be able to get any paint on the inside areas of the frame and once you remove all the old paint, gunk and rust from the inside portions you'll have nothing but bare clean metal that will start to rust right away. The outside will look great until the rust eats the metal away from the inside out.

I've been fighting this situation for 4 years now on my doors which I had dipped. I'll never again dip anything that contains hidden areas I can't reach with paint when done.

If you could dip the frame in POR 15 when you are done cleaning it that would be ideal, but I would strongly suggest you have the frame blasted and go from there. Don't disturb whatever may still be on the inside protecting the metal that you can't replace.

Plus, most co. that strip put on a coating when they're finished that I've been told is not POR15 friendly

I too endorse POR15 and have used it on everything. I also used their Glisten PC on a new gas tank. The only application that , in my mind, doesn't work well is on new metal. Such as new floor pans. Even following their process, new metal doesn't have enough 'tooth' for good adhesion. Even after a double treatment of Metal Prep.

I actually plan on running a home-made roller up the inside of the frame where it's boxed. I'm not ironclad on the decision to dip...just waiting for the damned body to be off so I can survey the rest of my summer work while the body's at the body shop. I"ve heard of the problems with dipping body panel assemblies, and don't plan on doing that. Doors get soda blasted, body's getting sand. I've already got the old 1/4's cut out so the blaster can get to the 'hidden' areas. As far as 'what may still be on the frame protecting...', 18 years ago when I first got the car, I had it steamed, and I laid under the car and rattle canned the whole underside with zinc and black, including the frame where I could reach. I can see surface rust far inside the frame where I can cock my head, and it is that which I am concerned about. If further inspection yields rust inside the frame, it is getting dipped for sure, assuming I can rig something to put paint inside the rails.

I'll post my solution later.

JR

I have been testing POR 15 for about 5 years now. UV light will kill it. I have had it on some deep pitted mild steel 5 years now exposed to salt water (tug boat) and it has held up great, no rust through yet.

Seems like painting the inside of a frame would be difficult, but I've been doing some thinking (it only hurt a little graemlins/clonk.gif ) and the idea I've come up with is this.

a garden hose mated to a paint gun or something similar on one end, and completely closed off on the other end. the closed off end will have a series of pinholes all the way around so paint could potentially spray out a full 360 degrees from the hose when air pressure is applied. you could snake this through the inside of the frame while spraying paint out of it.

Any thoughts on the subject? seems like it would be a lot better than just leaving the crud inside the frame rails or trying to spray through the little holes along th frame.
-joe

Originally posted by joeyv69ragtop:
Seems like painting the inside of a frame would be difficult, but I've been doing some thinking (it only hurt a little graemlins/clonk.gif ) and the idea I've come up with is this.

a garden hose mated to a paint gun or something similar on one end, and completely closed off on the other end. the closed off end will have a series of pinholes all the way around so paint could potentially spray out a full 360 degrees from the hose when air pressure is applied. you could snake this through the inside of the frame while spraying paint out of it.

Any thoughts on the subject? seems like it would be a lot better than just leaving the crud inside the frame rails or trying to spray through the little holes along th frame.
-joe I think someone here came up with a modified bug sprayer. They made a tip for it that sprayed a wide fan pattern and inserted it into the box section of the frame.

All good ideas...I'm waiting to survey the situation when my AWOL body guy gets back on schedule so I can get the tub off the frame.

Problem with an inefficient spray method is waste. At $100/gallon, I don't want to waste much. I'll be putting on my thinking cap when I can look at the frame on the floor.

I'll post my solution, and results when the time comes.

JR

I like to use a rustproofing inside the rails, it is impossible to prep the inside well enough for paint products to adhere well in my opinion. A non hardening black rustproofing sprayed with a wand works well. I've even used plastic roof coating reduced with motor oil in years past with great success. The oils and waxes leach into crevices and stay soft and self healing and can easily be cleaned from the exterior of the frame. Ever clean road tar off the underside of a car and find that area well preserved? Rubberized undercoating usually creacks and peels with age while a non hardening coating holds up for very long periods of time. JMO

Thanks for the suggestion. Anybody have a particular 'wand' they use? I don't know of any I've seen locally.

JR

You might want to check out a product I have looked at, but not yet purchased. Try going to www.eastwood.com. (http://www.eastwood.com.) Search by item number 16003, which is a aundercoating sprayer system. It includes three wands, 30" flexible, 20" rigid, and a 5". There are also 3 tips which look like they give various spray patterns.I guess it might be a "one-use" only deal, if you use POR, but might be worth it? I might be doing this job in about two weeks.

I knew I saw something like that wand sprayer somewhere like JC Whitney, but it might have been that unit at Eastwood.

Let us know how it works with...what are you going to spray?

I'll probably do the same thing, but my schedule is running long....

JR

I would like to use something that will level off the frame's surface and hide the 34 years of mother nature's attack on it. OR-I think I'll stop being so anal about it, and just POR15 the dang thing!

If being anal was a physical trait, I'd look like a shaved dog walking backwards. lol

I'm a perfectionist, and some people dare ask 'why?'. Do it the way 'you' want it. I've seen plenty of 'baby-smooth' frames...mine won't be quite so 'pretty'...but then again...

That 'anal' thing. Won't know 'til it's in progress...

JR

I recently applied some POR 15 to the trunk of my car and it really made a big difference. My only negatives I have about the product is that it doesn't seem to adhere well to machined surfaces and clean up is so simple because you just throw away the brush because it is so friggin hard you will never be able to use it again, no matter how long you let the brush soak in mineral spirits or paint thinner. I painted my engine block and it looks good except I haven't fired it yet. When using the silver rust preventative paint it spreads real thin, so a little will go a long way.

Ok, research has borne out.
One of my customers (who is multi-state, by the way) is Industrial Finishes & Systems. The products I found are 3M brand (except the gun) and are as follows:
3M Rust Fighter Application Wand (36"/360deg)
p/n 08998 $15.00
3M Rust Fighter I (for 'internal), non-hardening
p/n 08891 $18.00/qt
Rocker-Schutz Spray Gun (primarily for undercoating)
p/n 140-2 $35.00

The $15/qt is a LOT less expensive than the POR15 for spraying inside the frame, and echoes concerns in this thread regarding a 'flexible' coating. I 100% trust 3M products. The 3M Rust Fighter I is for internal panels, to be used with the wand. The wand has an adjustable nozzle for either 180deg or 360deg.

I've been told that the Rocker-Schutz gun can also be used to spray the urethane 'truck bed coatings', which I intended to spray on both my floor pan, and in the trunk. Better to get more than one use out of a gun.

Anyway, this is the way I'm going: Dipping frame, treating with Metal Conditioner (and THOROUGH rinsing), Rust Fighter I inside the frame, POR15 Semi-gloss on the outside sprayed with HVLP.

I hope to actually complete this by the end of August.

I'll post results in a new thread and link this thread as well when things are done and I have some pics of a 'successful' process :cool:

JR

I just ordered some Por-15 hi-temp grey to use on the inside of the muffler for my Honda XL350R dual purpose bike. The original muffler on the bike has been discontinued by Honda ($360 Cdn!) but I am starting to see a little rust crack appear on the back cap. I want to stave off rust from the internal baffles before I repair the cap with JB Weld. Hopefully this will do the trick. I should probably run the bike before the stuff sets up completeely since I don't want the factory holes in the baffle to get plugged. Has anyone attempted such a repair with any success?

Try J.C. Whitney...I think they sell a complete undercoating kit, wand, bottle hose and tips...

I have heard of otheres on here using it for POR. I just painted mine on with a brush for the first two coats, silver and black and then sprayed the final coat fo semigloss..

turned out real nice..
Mike