From the 'steering thread....


Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis68
Keith, a pan with side sumps and trap doors is what Troy is talking about and with Super Comp headers nothing but a stock pan will fit.


Check out the Moroso 'Claimer' pan. That's what I'm using, airjj here recommended it. It is stock dimensions but has some baffling with a trap door and side 'scrapers' inside to control oil. It's designed for circle track usage (though isn't biased for turning one direction). I also got the recommended Moroso oil pump pickup with it. I did have to do a tad bit of grinding on one of the side baffles to clear the crank, but since I got it running it's worked fine. Very reasonably priced too. I painted mine stock chevy orange to match the rest of the engine :)

So what is the purpose of the kickouts? Just to add more capacity?

capacity and "splash resistivety". Get the oil in the lowest part of the pan and keep it in there until the pickup wants to suck it away. :)

I got curious and checked moroso's site..

Kicked-Out Sump pans offer increased oil capacity without restricting ground clearance or having the oil too close to the crankshaft.

If KAA's car wasn't so bad ass, I'd call him lazy for not looking himself. :D

I run a Milodon claimer pan. I've compared a Moroso and Milodon claimer pan side by side and I chose the Milodon. It has a louvered windage tray, a braking baffle, and I'm also running the acceleration baffle between the oil pump and the rear main cap.

The pan does control oil much better than a stock pan but being a "stock outer profile" pan the volume of oil in the controlled sump area behind the baffles is limited and you can suck it dry much faster than a kickout pan which maintains a MUCH greater quantity of oil in the controlled sump area. I also modified the tray a bit to use a stock pickup, which moves the pickup further forward into the braking baffle area so the pickup is placed in the area it really needs to be. I didn't like Milodon's suggested pickup at all, it was too far back and biased for LTO (left turns only.)

It's definately way better than a stock pan but on a max effort stop down from 150mph my oil pressure needle starts to drop about the 50-60mph mark. Keep in mind when I'm hard on the brakes I'm still in 4th gear and the engine is still turning a lot of RPMs which only sucks the pan dry faster. The pan just doesn't have enough capacity behind the braking slosh baffle to keep the pickup submerged when all the oil returning from the top of the engine ends up in the timing cover during hard braking. It will also starve for oil pressure if you get hard on the brakes then dive into a sustained turn. I've had to limit my on/off ramp antics on several of my favorite ramps because I'd starve the engine of oil near the ends of the ramps.

My thoughts are if I can starve the engine for oil pressure on the street, I'm going to absolutely kill the engine from starving for oil on a real roadcourse where I can really push the limits. Not a chance I want to take!

The claimer pans are a big step up from stock and would be more than adequate IMO for 90% of drivers and definately adequate for autocross use where you're not holding a high-G turn for 5+ seconds. It's just not up to the task of sustained loading encountered in road racing (or some of my favorite ramps.)

Carl Casanova had the same issues with the claimer pan on his Camaro at Buttonwillow. He went to a CV Products 1080LTRR (a copy of an Avaid pan) which is a GREAT pan but there's no way in hell it'll fit on a Chevelle.

I looked at "road race" pan offerings from just about everyone (CV, Canton, Milodon, Avaid, Moroso, Hamburger's, and a few others) and before I took my engine/headers out I fabricated templates of the sump profiles. Not a single one would clear. All of them interfered with the headers under the starter, and many of them interfered with the crossmember. Canton's #250 pan was the closest; it will barely clear the crossmember, fits the driver's side just fine, and required a notch in the RH rear for the header tube. We'll see how it fits when it arrives, should be here in ~3 weeks.

One thing I should mention is with this pan it's 99% likely the headers will have to be set in the chassis an then the engine dropped in over the top. I don't see any way you'll be able to slide the headers in once the engine is in place. It's definately going to be a huge PITA but I'd rather deal with header aggravations than spinning some bearings!

Troy

It's definately way better than a stock pan but on a max effort stop down from 150mph my oil pressure needle starts to drop about the 50-60mph mark.
My car won't even do 150mph :)

My thoughts are if I can starve the engine for oil pressure on the street, I'm going to absolutely kill the engine from starving for oil on a real roadcourse where I can really push the limits. Not a chance I want to take!
Just throw some Slick 50 in there and you can run all day without any oil pressure. :D

If KAA's car wasn't so bad ass, I'd call him lazy for not looking himself. You ever have one of those days where you just don't feel like doing anything? :boring:

You ever have one of those days where you just don't feel like doing anything? :boring:I call those WEEKDAYS :D

Just throw some Slick 50 in there and you can run all day without any oil pressure. :D

Too bad I don't have solid lifters or else that might actually work. :p

Not many options for road race Big Blocks. The Moroso 20403 looks to be about the best choice.

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=11902

A little off the subject, but, how low do these oil pans hang down from the engine crossmember?

Not many options for road race Big Blocks. The Moroso 20403 looks to be about the best choice.

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=11902

That's the pan I use. I really like it. Built in scraper and all.

I don't think it sits any lower than my crossmember. let me try and find a picture...
sorry nothing with that angle here at work. If you send me a PM, I can email a pic' from home. but I am pretty sure I didn't have any worries about the oil panning hitting something that the cross member would miss.

For Big blocks, the only way to go is the milodon 31555, it is a little pricey however it has like 7 trap doors, I cannot imagine a way that the pickup could come uncovered, and it supposedly holds 8 quarts of oil(I only put 7 in) It doesn't have any cheap windage screens or trays built it, but most of those aren't very nice anyway. THe moroso scrapers are just a flat bar welded to the pan and I highly doubt really do anything. IT also has a provision for a dipstick and for a temp sending unit. FOr oil control I would say it is one of the best after seeing it, and a few others.

My only concern with these kickout pans is clearance for changing the oil filter. As it is now with my stock oil pan, I have to remove several bolts from my Lakewood scattershield to get the filter out. 2" primary header tubes really take up a lot of space down there.

with these pans, the filter drops straight down, there is a cut away in the wing so it can go straight down, more clearance than drag race pans. I had to dent my pan in though (was going to cut,notch,weld but got lazy) because my super comp header was hitting the wing on the driver side

Not much info on their website, but some of these pans may be worth looking into,

http://www.champpans.com/wetsumps.html

I believe those are the same claimer pans that CV products sells. THey are decent but i think(if i recall) they only ahve like 3 trap doors and they don't make any BBC pans

They make some bbc pans,

http://www.champpans.com/wetsumpbbcmarkv.html

I would invite any of you to look at what we offer. Our part number system is just a starting point to build a specific pan for your needs. We do not use a stamping as a starting point, all of our pans are 100% hand fabricated. These can be bought through Wolf Place or Carl and NE CNC block.

Can you tell us something about the oil control? what kind of system do you have? what kind, where, and how many trap doors, capacity? price?

On summit it says it has no dipstick provision on the milodon. I am also looking for an oil pan for the LS-6 so I can drop it in my 71 convertible. I am adding the valley pan, roller rockers, roller timing chain, one piece oil pump shaft and some after market pan. Thanks for all the suggestions and now all we need to do is figure the best one.

Nelson













For Big blocks, the only way to go is the milodon 31555, it is a little pricey however it has like 7 trap doors, I cannot imagine a way that the pickup could come uncovered, and it supposedly holds 8 quarts of oil(I only put 7 in) It doesn't have any cheap windage screens or trays built it, but most of those aren't very nice anyway. THe moroso scrapers are just a flat bar welded to the pan and I highly doubt really do anything. IT also has a provision for a dipstick and for a temp sending unit. FOr oil control I would say it is one of the best after seeing it, and a few others.

Can you tell us something about the oil control? what kind of system do you have? what kind, where, and how many trap doors, capacity? price?

The oil pan is one of the non moving parts in an engine that if not correct for the application it can destroy a $20K engine.

Oil Control
Area is your friend in an oil pan. The ability to dissapated the high pressure side of windage in to a low pressure side is key. If this is not done the crank will pick the oil up and cause airation issues.

We have designed most of the systems in use today. We work very closely with the OEM's and professional race teams developing products.

Baffling and trap door configuration is application specific. A SBC 406 in a Chevelle that is going to see weekend driving and an occasional drag pass will need simple baffling to locate the oil around the pickup. The same car and engine but it is going to see some road racing gets our diamond baffling with trap doors. The pickup is then located within this diamond box giving the engine consistant oil supply no matter what angle the chassis is at.

Pickup location is critical. Mount a pickup to far to the rear and on deceleration you will see your oil pressure drop. Place the pickup to far forward and on launch you will see oil pressure issues. Place the pickup below a counterweight on a large stroke engine with windage problems and it will blow a void in the sump and starve the engine for oil.

Capacity is maximized for each customer. The formula Sump Length x sump width x sump height x .0172= capacity in qts. Now sump height is not the total height but the area subtracted from the main body depth. So if the body is 4 inches deep and the sump is 9" then you have a sump area of 5.

Price, we are from $326 to $1700 depending on what you are doing. We charge the same for steel or aluminum. We can't compete with offshore stamped cores or even fully made pans. All of our pans are 100% hand fabricated in Lakewood, NJ. We hand fit, hand fabricate, hand weld, and hand test fit every pan. We jig fixture bolt every pan, steel or aluminum, to a fixture that is material specific.

I hope that answered your question

milodon's does have a dipstick provision. They told me the same thing but it does have it.

The diamond design seems decent, I am assuming the diamond is located centrally in the sump, and the "wings" have seperate trap doors? Anything else you can tell us about the RR pans? The other info was cool but didn't necessarily pertain to this topic. I would like to hear what you do for this type of application, not what does/does not work. SO I am assuming that a typical custom RR style pan is in the neighborhood of $5-600??

the diamond baffling would be centered as the picture at the bottom of the page shows:
http://www.stefs.com/stefsindex.htm

Depending on how much stroke and what type of rpm the engine is going to see would determine what we would do. A full kickout of 2" on passenger side is really needed for either of the above mentioned. Side tanks help in capacity but they don't help in windage control. We use baffling in the tank area.

Cost for a steel or aluminum road race pan from us is around $875. That is pan, pickup/pump assembly, oil pan studs, windage screen, scraper, magnetic drain plug, dip stick provision.

Cost for a steel or aluminum road race pan from us is around $875.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

My entire engine is only worth $1500 :)

I just compared the pricing on one of the pans talked about in this thread. Ours is $875

Comparison
349 for pan
72 for windage screen
37 for windage screen mounting kit
62.00 for pick up
30 for M77HV
20 for oil pan stud kit

$570

So we have $300 difference.

no argument that you have a badass product there, but I think I paid like $130 total for my Moroso pan. Most of us 'budget' guys can't buy something like that.

I didn't use nor need a $75 screen, mildodon will tell you that their tray works really good, which is like $30, you said oil pan studs, you never mentioned anything about windage screen mounting kit, so thats another $37 (i just ordered the ARP main studs that you can use for the mounting of the tray) or you can get the GM main bolts for like $20 that have the mounting stud on top of it. So your pan is like $375 more which is a huge chunk of change. And I'm not even convinced that the diamond setup is even the best.

I'm sure you sell a nice product, but your price is just way too high for me

BTW who uses a HV pump on a BBC??? There is no need for one. A stock pump with the high pressure spring is all that is needed on about %90 of the motors out there

Our pan is 100% fabricated, we don't start with a stamped core. We make our rails, our seal ends and such.

You may not be convinced on the diamond baffling but our customers are. It is more time consuming to build and insure pickup location but it works very well.

I quoted the HV pump because that is what the other company recommends with matching pickup. Your are correct on the HV, there is no need for an HV. The stock pump with .125" shim works very well so you would not need the HP spring. No need in wasting 9 or 12HP turning an HV pump. We recommend a std volume.

Thank you, we do make a nice product and work closely with the OEM's and race teams to develop new and better product each year. Thanks for your consideration of our product.

sounds like a killer pan

BB Mike,
What headers and size primary are you running? Do you have any problem with the oil filter or starter change? Are the headers close or touch the pan like cody mentioned in his post about the milodon oil pan?
Thanks for any info

Nelson