Hello,

I have a 1969 Chevelle SS396, With the stock suspension. I have already ordered a set of rear upper and lower control arms for the car, but I need to get some coil springs.

I was wondering if anyone had any opinions on what springs were the best...

I have been looking at Hotckis Springs, as well as Eibach Pro Kit.
They both advertise a 1" drop. I have also looked at getting a new set of springs from MOOG.

I am planning on getting both the front and rear sets.

The two aftermarket spring sets are roughly the same price and offer a 1" drop, while the MOOG parts are OEM and are a third of the price.

I'd appreciate your feedback,

Thank You,

David

I just put MOOG stock height springs in front and back and love em, ride is nice, less body roll and the car sits and a perfect height. Car looks just like the old photos of the 69 SS cars back then

i also put the stock Moog springs in my car, They are perfect.


Rocky

I put moog in mine and they sit 3" to high i hate it.

I've run the hotchkis small block springs up front with moog rear springs and a bigblock with aluminum radiator/intake and the ride was not bad but the low spring rate left something to be desired. I now run 1000lb afco springs up front and 175's out back and there is almost no body roll. This being said i assume you are just looking for a comfy ride for cruising and such and are not trying to run down vettes on the turns. The hotchkis springs do offer a better ride than stock and are not harsh at all on the road but, if you go the afco route you have more adjustablity as far as ride hieght goes, and they're cheaper. I think the spring rate on the hotckis is 550lbs so you COULD get some afco 550 and then use the spring adjusters to make your ride as low as you want :)
Just an idea...

With 37 years old springs on the car now.. the car is obviously already sagging, but i like the lower look. Installing moog springs will no doubt raise the car back up to original ride height. So I am choosing not to go with MOOG.

As far as your comments regarding the type of ride I want... Actually I want to be able to take corners a little harder than I currently am able to. That being said, I looked into AFCO springs. My problem is that they offer so many different height springs that I am lost.

What height should be used in the front/rear. I want the rear to be a tad be higher than the front, but don't want and extreme rake. Also how do I know what weight spring is best. As I said before the car has the original 396 bb in it, and has the stock suspension components, with exception to rear upper and lower arms, and a rear sway bar.

Thanks...

The springs you want to use are the 5x9.5 springs in the front and the 5.5x11 pigtails in the rear. The rears only have the pigtail on one side to make sure you put that side on the axle so they'll stay put. Go with 150lb in the rear unless you go over 750lb in the front. Now, these rear springs drop the car quite a bit so you might have to roll the wheel well depending on tire size, bs, etc but the drop is similar to the hotchkis. As far as the front goes you'll be required to run coil spring height adjusters so you can pretty much put the front end anywhere you like. for spring rate i can only speak from my limited experience and i love the 1000lb springs but i could see how they might be a bit much for some people. I know dennis is running 950 or something so maybe he'll chime in on his ride quality.

I'm running 950/200; the rear may be a little stiff but eliminates the need for a sta-bar (just another source of unsprung weight). Ride is firm but not harsh (except for those damn railroad tracks on Vasco Rd.). Having built the suspension on no less than 100 vehicles I can say with some level of expertise that that adjustable shim/spacer is the only way to go with a conventional spring, I'll never build another car without them.

I'm running 950/200; the rear may be a little stiff but eliminates the need for a sta-bar (just another source of unsprung weight). Ride is firm but not harsh (except for those damn railroad tracks on Vasco Rd.). Having built the suspension on no less than 100 vehicles I can say with some level of expertise that that adjustable shim/spacer is the only way to go with a conventional spring, I'll never build another car without them.

can you give a link to this stuff? what is the cost?

seems like i've asked before, but now I need some parts for sure so it might be a good time

also, what is required to make this stuff fit?

can you give recommendations for springs for a 71 with SBC, A/C, BB radiator, PS, PB

I want it to be firm but not risk damaging anything

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/aspx/paging.yes/dept_id.712/display_id.3389/qx/Product.htm

They also sell springs on the site, you'll need the 5" by 9.5".

do i need to standard or extended shims? do these just go in with no modification?

The spacer/shim has a threaded collar on it for adjsuting height. It sits directly on top of the spring (between the spring and frame)

awesome, I got that figured out

so as far as rate what are suggestions? rear springs are hotchkis 1" drop but I don't know the rate

I'd like them to be pretty firm but I'm not sure how the rates affect each other front to back

do i need to standard or extended shims? do these just go in with no modification? You need the longer ones. They sit on top of the springs, and go right in the stock frame without modifying or welding.

The short ones require cutting a piece of the frame off that holds the spring in place, and welding it in place.

If you can't get the car low enough with the tall ones, you can cut the collar on a bandsaw pretty easily. I took 1" off mine, and just have it threaded out a little farther.

ok, cool

now for springs does the 925 rate sound like the good choice?

You need the longer ones. They sit on top of the springs, and go right in the stock frame without modifying or welding.

The short ones require cutting a piece of the frame off that holds the spring in place, and welding it in place.

If you can't get the car low enough with the tall ones, you can cut the collar on a bandsaw pretty easily. I took 1" off mine, and just have it threaded out a little farther.

sorry to bug you again but I'm looking at the pictures again...are you 100% sure its the long ones that don't need mods? from the pics it looks like they're topped with a plate that would interfere with the spring retainer

the short ones look like they are just an open pipe on the end that would be the same diameter as the spring therefore it wouldn't touch the center of the spring area on the body

or am I looking at this the wrong way?

Short Style: The end is too flat, and the hole in the center isn't big enough to sit in the frame pocket without cutting off the little piece that helps hold the spring in place. You would need to weld this type in to keep it in place.
http://cache.speedwaymotors.com/eccStoreFront/product_images/2005/91645551_1_L.jpg

Tall Style: The big extended part is the same diameter as the spring, so it fits right in the spring pocket and stays in place just as the spring would. If you can't get it low enough with the tall one, you can bandsaw off part of the end. I took an inch off mine to be sure I could get it low enough.
http://cache.speedwaymotors.com/eccStoreFront/product_images/2005/91645551_2_L.jpg

I'm an idiot, had the pics mixed up.

How much drop did you go with?

I'm aiming for 4" clearance at the crossmember, but it looks like I'm going to need to raise it up a little since I'm only at 4.75" with no body on the car :eek:

I've got the 700lb AFCO springs with cut down tall adjusters and a total free-height of 11.5". I won't know until it's assembled how much I need to adjust it to get it right.

I went looking around for the coil springs..... summit has started selling them, but they only go to 900lbs, but they are going for $49.95.

Anyhow.. when I was looking around for the 5x9.5 inch tall springs.. a few sites listed this springs as for use with Small Block motors. I have a big block. Can you explain how these springs which will work?

Thank You.

Just to recap... if I was going this route I would order.

2 5" x 9.5" 950lb Front Coil Springs
2 AFCO Pigtail Springs 200lb.
2 Spacers?

Thanks,

David

why not order from the link above? I plan to

call summit too, they might not have them listed but still sell them

I am also going to be updating my suspenion in my 69SS. I have the 2" drop conversion w/disc brakes I am also installing. Will a 950 / 200lb combination work on this? Will I need or do they make a 200lb drop rear spring? What about a good shock recomendation. I currently have rear air shocks in there now.

Thanks-Frank
69 SS 402/425hp, Muncie M22, 3.31 12 bolt

I was looking at the Hotchkis springs and they have 135lb rears and 500lb front springs. These seem quite a bit softer than what you guys are recommending (200 and 950lb). How streeteble are the 950/200lb springs? I Like to drive my chevelle pretty hard, but don't want it to ride like a F350 4x4.

950/200 is getting pretty serious.

I'm starting with 700/175 for a good starting point if you want a good balance, but don't know where to start.

500/130 is good if you want a smooth ride, but a little soft for road-racing. You'll need sway bars about 1.125" and .875" dia. (stock F41 sizes)

Stock is somewhere in the 350 front range, not sure about the rears.

Thanks for the reply. I have already bought the hotchkis springs, but could return them since I havent installed them yet. I doubt my 66 SS ragtop would ever be allowed on a road course (much to my disappointment) since it will never have a roll bar. Nice to know about the coil spring adjusters, I'm pretty sure I'll need those in front.

Does anyone else think 950/200 is too extreme?
What about 2" drop springs and a decent set of shocks for the rear end? (what's decent?)

Unless you want to road race it that is probably a bit extreme.

You won't be happy with a 950/200 combo on a street car. 200's are way stiff in the rear and should be reserved or dual purpose or track only appliactions. I would limit the rear to no more then 175ish maybe even 150. 750 in the front will be fine, no need for anything heavier than that. A 750 is over double the rate of the F41 suspension package already.

Can you use those spring spacers with moog stock springs? I have some and it sits too high and was wondering if i could use these to lower it.

Hey Dennis, I was wondering if you could clarify a couple things for me.

You have made two post with different mixed reviews...

1.)
I'm running 950/200; the rear may be a little stiff but eliminates the need for a sta-bar (just another source of unsprung weight). Ride is firm but not harsh (except for those damn railroad tracks on Vasco Rd.). Having built the suspension on no less than 100 vehicles I can say with some level of expertise that that adjustable shim/spacer is the only way to go with a conventional spring, I'll never build another car without them.

2.)
You won't be happy with a 950/200 combo on a street car. 200's are way stiff in the rear and should be reserved or dual purpose or track only appliactions. I would limit the rear to no more then 175ish maybe even 150. 750 in the front will be fine, no need for anything heavier than that. A 750 is over double the rate of the F41 suspension package already.

In the first one.. I got all exited.... "the ride is firm, but not harsh" sounds good to me. My car won't lean at a 45 degree angle every time I make a turn.

In the second one.... "are way stiff in the rear....." okay.. now what.... If you are using the 950/200 combo and driving on the street, why wouldn't I be happy with this as well?

I just want to have my final weights picked out so that I can order. I want a firm ride, but not a ride that feels like there isn't any springs on the car. I want a lower center, and the ability to take turns harder. I hate always having to slow down on freeway on/off ramps and seeing other cars pass me. The posted speed is 35, but my tires start squeeling at 30 and i am leaning over into the passeger seat. I want to be able to go down the highways with steady ride, and be able to have my tires to turn more than my body does.

Please advise, and with your suggestion can you point out what kind a ride a may end up with with that combo. I was lucky enough to get a hold of an actual 69 SS, but I can hardly afford the upkeep or modification. I don't want to have to buy more than one set of springs, let alone spending the time to figure out how to change them in my driveway.

Speaking of that..... any tips on changing these puppies..

David

Can you use those spring spacers with moog stock springs? I have some and it sits too high and was wondering if i could use these to lower it.

No and no.

No and no.
What springs would i have to use. Also how much adjustablilty is there in the
spring spacers? COuld you drop the springs 3" if you need to? Are these safe, they aren't going to come off are they or break?

thanks,

I ordered a set of the heavy duty ones from NPD. I like them - not too stiff but not mushy. The rear settled a little too much thouhg. I'd liek to see it an inch or two higher.

a

I have the Global West S-62 out back - They are much better then the wagon springs I had.....

David, my tastes are.....well I drove mini truck in high school with NO SPRINGS AT ALL, it just rested on some small bumps stops I built on the lower arms and in the rear I flipped the leafs upside down so it forced the axle against the frame stops rather than held it off of them. I drove it for 3 years and loved it, to give you an example of my tastes. I just don't want someone who plans on family outings to install my "firm but not harsh” set up and come back a little disgruntled at how it rides. I do not think the 950/200 is a harsh ride at all, it is firm however and small sharp bumps like potholes do go over smoothly.

If the rear sta-bar is a concern (or its removal), you can easily get away with a 175 spring and no bar, the rear bars effect in an "A body is so diminished by its mounting configuration that it only shines in a really under sprung car anyways.

Lucky : you would need to buy circle track 5x9.5 springs to use the spacers. With the spacers in the lowers position the car sits pretty low and you could always shave a little off the spacer to make it lower. If i took an inch off the spacer that would be the lowest i would want to run if i liked my headers in one piece but if you had dropped spindels or tall bj kit then you will not need then near that low.


As far as removing the springs and installing them, it's not hard at all, takes me about 1 hour or less to do so on a 45 degree slanted driveway by myself. There are several threads already stating good ways to do this procedure but i'll give you the brief version.

Run a chain through the spring and control arm to keep the springs from popping out when the preasure is taken off. Place a jack under the lower a-arm and remove the castel nut almost all the way, some say to remove the upper arm but i did lower because it was easier to get to, when the balljoint has been seperated remove the castle nut the rest of the way and let the a arm down with the jack slowly..

Put the new springs in and jack up the a arm until you can get the nut on the spindle and then tighten. Might have to use spring compressors to get them in there, i can't remember now.

I i left anything out you can do a search and get some really detailed info about it, but trust me, changing springs isn't that hard. ;)

Futwa,

Thanks for the info. I am guessing the rear's will be even easier.


Dennis.. thanks for clarifying. The car does not have a rear sway bar, but I did see a boxed set of arms and a sway bar on ebay for $25.00 earlier today. Anyhow.. I remember that slammed mini trucks from back in my highschool days.

A couple things I was curious about that no one has mentioned...

How high will the car ride without the installation of the spring spacers?

Someone mentioned that the rear springs would drop the car a lot. How much is a lot.. and is there anyway to raise it up a bit if it turns out to be too low for me?

Dennis..... If you were to drive your car over a speed bumb.. how does it react? how about a dip?

Sorry for pestering so much, I just want to make the best decesion the first time...

Thanks again,

David

Thanks for the info. I am guessing the rear's will be even easier. The rears literally just fall out once you remove the shocks and allow the rear axle to hang.

Anyhow.. I remember that slammed mini trucks from back in my highschool days. I sometimes miss that old Mazda, had a custom ground cam in it and 225/50’s, rode like an F1 car but handled similar too as long as you kept the sped under about 25MPH.

How high will the car ride without the installation of the spring spacers? You can't run without the spacers, the LCA will collide with the frame long before the spring has an opportunity to even seat itself.

Someone mentioned that the rear springs would drop the car a lot. How much is a lot.. and is there anyway to raise it up a bit if it turns out to be too low for me? David, the rear springs will drop it quite a bit. The rear springs have a 1:1 motion ratio so every inch of spring drop is equal to an inch of actual ride height reduction, just measure your current springs and subtract 12". The result will be the amount of drop you can expect. There is no way to adjust the rear height without building a weight jack type mount.

Dennis..... If you were to drive your car over a speed bumb.. how does it react? how about a dip? Speed bumps aren't bad, I usually just roll them although we have neighborhood "speed limiters" around here; basically a series of speed bumps about 300 yards apart spanning the entire street of heavily traveled residential roads. They really **** me off, I hit those about 10 MPH and it doesn't unsettle the chassis.

I only have trouble with one dip, it is a really bad part of highway that lasts about 150 feet but I if I get stuck in that lane I am in trouble, the headers will remove asphalt and at 75MPH it doesn't sound pretty.

Thanks again,

David

I think you are ready

so denny, you can't just use the spacers in the rear same as the front?

Springs and shims have been ordered... wish me luck on not taking my head off putting on the front springs.

Anyhow, do I need new rubbers for the top and bottom of the spring perches/mounts. Will I need to replace any other parts while taking apart the suspension?

Thank YOu,

David

So you can't use the spring spacer/adjusters on any stock style front springs (Hotchkis, Moog, Glogal west, etc..)?

No, the hidden shims/adjusters can ONLY be used with 9.5" speedway style front coils. They sit on top of the spring which are ground flat unlike OE style springs, not to mention they would be way too tall on a typical lowered coil.

No need for rubbers on the rear. I don't use any at all. (preparing for wisecracks)

As far as the spacers breaking, not likely. It is possible if you abuse them like I did. Had one installed in the RF of my "stock" :D car along with a spring out of a 3/4 ton truck with two coils cut off. The car bounced all the way through the corners until the wheel center broke. When I pulled this setup out of the car the spring had wrapped itself around the spacer.
I was a kid who knew better than all the other guys.:clonk:
Never was able to get those two apart again.:confused:

Hey Denny.. I am here to pester you some more. Now that all my parts are on their way, I have to inquire about something else. The springs are going to lower the car.. I can't know how much because the car is already sagging from the 37 year old springs in there.... Anyhow here is my delima.

The current tire and wheel setup on my car is as follows:

Fronts 225 70R15
Rears 235 70R15

As you can imagine these are some tall biscuits. My question is, being that the tires as so tall I image there is going to be some clearance issues when the springs are installed.

If you wouldn't mind could you tell me the rim width, back spacing, and tire sizes you have going in your car. I may pick up so new rims.. if not I will at least get some new rubber. Therfore any insight you may offer here will be helpful. I just don't want to put the springs on start lowering the jacks and realize the car won't roll because the tires are now incrusted into the fender wells.


Thank You,

David

David, you should actually be OK.

My wheels are 17X9.5 and 17X11. the backspacing is 5.5" in the front and 6" in the rear. Tires are 255/40 and 285/40...soon to be 275/40 all the way around.

So how wide do you think I could go in the rear without having to bend the lip up.... I wouldn't mind but the trim connects to that lip.

David

Mmmm, I would think a 275/40-17 would fit as long as you have it all the way inside. Mounted on a 17X9.5 or even a 10 would fit pretty good.

How about rear back spacing?

Thanks Again for all the help...

David

David, you should actually be OK.

My wheels are 17X9.5 and 17X11. the backspacing is 5.5" in the front and 6" in the rear. Tires are 255/40 and 285/40...soon to be 275/40 all the way around.That is how it sits now. If you decided on a 9.5 or 10" wheel I would probably leave the backspacing alone to preserve the fender to tire clearance.

Someone mentioned that the rear springs would drop the car a lot. How much is a lot.. and is there anyway to raise it up a bit if it turns out to be too low for me? David, the rear springs will drop it quite a bit. The rear springs have a 1:1 motion ratio so every inch of spring drop is equal to an inch of actual ride height reduction, just measure your current springs and subtract 12". The result will be the amount of drop you can expect. There is no way to adjust the rear height without building a weight jack type mount.


Thanks again,

David

I think you are ready

The rear springs we use are 5.5 x 11 right? If these are what you have, is that what we should expect how low it will sit? My guess is you have cut your rear coils. is this accurate?
Will a 150 spring sit lower than a 200? I would thing yes because you hav same amount of weight pressing down.


Brian

The rear springs we use are 5.5 x 11 right? A couple links for you-Pitstop link (http://www.pitstopusa.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=4562) or D&C Racing (http://www.dandcracing.com/zcoilspringspigtail.htm) I use the Black Magic 175's from D&C with a coil whacked off further lowering the height and increasing the rate.

If these are what you have, is that what we should expect how low it will sit? The 5.5"X11" won't seat in the axle mount properly, you need to use the pigtail mount on at least the lower spring seat.

My guess is you have cut your rear coils.Yes, 1 coil off the D&C spring...maybe not a full coil, I cut it down exactly one inch.

Will a 150 spring sit lower than a 200? I would thing yes because you hav same amount of weight pressing down. No, it only takes a 135 spring to hold the rear at at ride hight. Increasing rate simply increases roll stiffness. Ride remains pretty much unchanged through out all my spring adventures.


Brian :)

Well.. Denny.. would have been nice to know about the Black Magic springs before I ordered my afco..... would have saved me $34.00. :) The afco springs do have a good warranty on them though

quick questions-

Can speedway springs with spacers still achieve stock ride hieght (when spacer is at full height)? Or possibly an 1" lower? I have a SBC with A/C and auto tranny. Would it depend on spring rate?

Thanks in advance,
Matt

This thread has been extremely helpful. I just purchased the Heidt 2" drop spindle for my 69 Chevelle and was looking for a way to adjust my spring height. Currently the car has new stock suspension and coil springs but still rides too high for my liking. Dennis, i like the rake on your 69. Very nice. That is what I am aiming for. Thanks for the links and the info.

OK, so I need to do this next weekend if at all possible. Will I be ok with the 750# front springs? I have stock F41 bars and hotchkis rear springs, I might change them later if it still rides to bouncy after I ditch the airshocks. I'm looking for a really firm ride, but nothing that will kill me on sub par OK roads when I go home every now and then.

750# will be fine. Most of the performance coils rate around 600-650 so you are not to far off of them.

Can speedway springs with spacers still achieve stock ride hieght (when spacer is at full height)? Or possibly an 1" lower? I have a SBC with A/C and auto tranny. Would it depend on spring rate?At full height, it would be higher than stock.

Stock height would be about half-way on the adjustment. There is 2" of adjustment on the shims, which means 4" of ride height adjustment.

Those of us going real low are cutting the shims down on the bandsaw so that we can get it low enough, and have some adjustment left.

Thanks for the reply, Derek. I have been reading a ton of your posts and plan on taking advice on many of them.

thanks derek!