Could one of the pros list the order of how you would attack replacing all body panels?

Scenario:
I want to replace floors, rockers, trunk floor and drop offs, quarters, inner and outer wheel housings, taillight panel, and all body braces.

Let's say I'm replacing the frame, too (which I am).

What would be the order you would go in? What would be done BEFORE removing the body, and what would be done AFTER or INTERIM? Example: Could a floor or trunk floor be done on a rotisserie?

Crankshaft

why not find a good shell, alot cheaper and alot less work

I would like to hear the order someone would put this in also. If anything I'm sure there are people that would be replacing some of this and wouldnt mind getting the idea of the correct order from a pro. graemlins/thumbsup.gif
:rolleyes: The question wasn't does anyone know where to find a body shell. Some people like the challange or the car has to much sentimental value to scrap. :D

Originally posted by 70_L78:
why not find a good shell, alot cheaper and alot less work As Pop stated, you missed the point of the question.

I actually don't have to replace EVERY panel; some, not every. Knowing the order helps for the overall procedure, and for FUTURE projects.

And yes, there is the "challenge" factor! :D

Crankshaft

As most of the body experts here will tell ya, You should never do any body work with the body off the frame. It could twist and the body will then be all messed up. What I would do is buy the new frame your gonna buy, and then attach the body to it. Then do all the work.

My 2 cents.

Rob. graemlins/beers.gif

Originally posted by LYTEMUP:
As most of the body experts here will tell ya, You should never do any body work with the body off the frame. It could twist and the body will then be all messed up. What I would do is buy the new frame your gonna buy, and then attach the body to it. Then do all the work.

My 2 cents.

Rob. graemlins/beers.gif I already have the frame. I have talked with a couple of dealership body guys (they claim 20+ years experience) who mentioned it is easier to do the floor off the frame. I want a lot more reference points to go off of.

Again, I'm looking for the ORDER of replacement.

Not to disregard what everyone is saying because I DO appreciate all the input, but could I hear from guys like MARTINSR and Sevt_chevelle, who do this for a living?

Crankshaft

My boss is the shop foreman at a nationally recognized collision center. He started the business himself over 30 years ago and has brought it where it is today with strict quility standerds. He is the absolute authority on all bodywork i do on my car. Now that I'm done brown nosing. :rolleyes: ;)
I brought him the list you made and he flinched at the thought of that much work.
He said the absolute first thing you sould do is asses your abilities. Don't overestimate how good you are(this is alot of work)
Also dont overestimate your shop. You need a huge amount of tools to complete that stuff right.
His order of attack was as follows:
1. replace the frame and sit the cab exactly where it's gonna stay
2. do your rockers and body braces and floor next. He said be carefull and brace the hell out of it. He was a little hazy on exactly what body braces you were talking about.(lots of different cars to remember)
3. next tackle your quarters and wheelhousings.
4. do your trunk floor
5. do your tail light panel
He said to do all this stuff with the cab on the frame and and sitting on the suspension.
He reiterated a bunch of times how much work this was and how long it would take. We also talked about how fun it would be (go figure ;) )
I hope this helped. If you have any more questions I can ask him as long as I don't lose my employment graemlins/beers.gif Just kidding. Let me know and I'll ask.

crankshaft, i mean this in the nicest possibly way. If you have a ultra rare car that is rusted down or full of bondo sure replace the all the panels that need replacing. But in most cases its alot better to start with a decent shell it will turn out alot better than a basket full of repoped crap.IMO

They guy I just bought a used set of fenders and wheel wells from was parting out a 68. The shell was from a socal car...mint... he wanted $1500 for it. I guess you have to decide if all the work and buying repop metal is worth more or less than that.

Ok, I just did this, except for the floor braces so here goes with my order.

Removed:
1 Quarter
1 Rocker
1 inner and outer wheel house
1 entire trunk pan assemble at joint behind rear seat

Rebuilt entire trunk floor system with new pan, gas tank and floor braces.

Reinstalled trunk pan

Installed:
1 inner and outer wheel house
1 rocker
1 trunk drop off
1 Quarter

Then Removed other side:
1 quarter
1 rocker
1 Wheel houses

Then reinstall in reverse order.

I did this with the body on and off the frame in iterations. I have a lift system in my basement that allows me to install the body onto the frame in about 20 min. Everytime I was about to weld in something that needed to be controled in its location I would re bolt the body onto the frame. My body has been on and off the frame atleast 8 times. This is the only way to do it and keep everything lined up. Also, I changed the frame like you, make sure you set in on the new frame since you need it to fit it and not the old frame. Hope this helps, lots of luck....

Knownothing and 70velle_basketcase,

This is just the type of response I was looking for! Thank you!

I would like to hear as many like this as possible! Also, if you do something in an order for a specific reason, I'd love to hear thoughts on that, too.

Sevt_chevelle had outlined replacing his tailpanel and why he did certain things in the "Rear Valance?" thread; knowing the reasons can save LOTS of headaches; learning at the "school of hard knocks" just sucks, but it CAN be avoided (sometimes).

If you think of this as an "informational" type of thread, it can become very beneficial to everyone. :D

Again, thanks guys!

Crankshaft

Crankshaft, look through the link, it has tons of pics on my floor, trunk etc replacement. I try to add pics to it if I can remember, got tons for it not posted.

Once I get more time tomm night Ill see if I can do something on the headaches and short cuts of doing this work. Check out my link it has what you are looking for graemlins/hurray.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif ...Eric

Crankshaft, I'll ask him to make sure at work on Monday, but I'm pretty sure it has to do with going in the order of structural importance.(I think) You would want the real important stuff solid and in the car before you try and tackle the less important(load bearing)structures.
I wont say to much because I'm not sure but I'll ask the boss on Monday.

Knownothing,
Thanks, that would be cool!

Sevt_chevelle,
Great link! I've bookmarked it so I can refer to it; the shortcuts will come in real handy, but please do it at YOUR convenience!

Thanks guys!

Crankshaft

Crankshaft, doing this is pretty much like building a house. You got to start with a solid foundation, then build the framing, subfloors etc.

The foundation of a car would be the frame, without it, you got nothing but a weak hunk of metal. I would start out making sure the frame is straight and strong. I recall you were building a 71 vert on a hardtop frame right??. Get your new frame welded up, boxed whatever and make sure its straight.

Now when I did my 70 I started on the floors first. Like before starting at the foundation. Every floor, every time Ive craweled under the car Ive starred and thought how to do this the easiest and safest way for me and the car. Each time I get the same answer...You need to lift the body off the frame slightly. This is the ONLY time I do any mettal replacement off the frame PERIOD. The reason so is because when I do the floors I replace the braces that run across the floor and weld to inner rockers. With the car sitting on the frame you simply dont have room to remove those braces and weld them back on properly.

Now when I say lift the car I mean pick it up enough to slide 4X4 under the car across the frame, so the car is still sitting on the frame just ontop of those 4x4's. I had one under the cowl one in middle the other right before the rear wheel.

Beofre I go any farther I should mention that since have a vert you NEED to brace the body. You should have braces going across the jams and then in a X pattern from one jam to the other. Once you lift a vert off the frame its like taking your back bone out your body, all you will be is a lump of flesh. But if you brace the vert in the right spots you dont have to worry about the car bending in half. Trust me Ive seen it happen, lucky it wasnt me doing the work or had to fix it cause it got fuc$%^ up in a hurry.

Ok when I do floors I start with the braces first. You can do the floors first but I just do the braces, its a routine :D I start on the first brace. I carefully remove it by drilling out the spot welds that hold it to the floor and inner rocker. Dont just starting cutting floor along with the brace cause you will need that old floor to help aid in installing the new one so leave it in place. Beofre I remove it I trace its position onto the floor and inner so when I go to position the new one I know where it has to be.

Now with the old brace out, you can mock up the new brace to floor and inners. Position the brace to the trace mark left by the old brace. Continue to fit and tweak the brace til it fits nice and snug to the floor and inner. Once you have the fit you want you can screw it to the old floor and inner or place a few tack welds. Dont fully weld to the inners yet as you might need a slight adjustment later when doing the floors. Screws will hold that brace in place no problem, hell the whole back half of my chevelle was held together with screws for 2 years :eek: and didnt move 1/64 of an inch.

Once you have the first brace in place, move to the second brace, repeat process. Now comes the tricky part. If you need to replace the inners you can now do so. It would be easier with the braces not srcewed into them but I feel screwing them on the old inner first helps position the new brace correctly. Remove any spot welds holding the inner on and any screws you have from brace to inner, just make sure that the end of brace is held good to the floor. Now you can replace inner. The outer rocker and new braces will aid in positioning the inner right. The more alignment spots you have the better the fit and faster the fitting.

Also that rear or third brace isnt repro'ed you must make do with what you have or find a better used one. Also if you have to replace the third brace and the rear seat panel, now is the time to do so. Removing the rear seat from the topside is a bitch you have to remove those braces that weld to the inner quarter to floor, drill thro 3 layers of metal...NOT TRICK. The best way is to remove that third brace and replace the rear seat from the bottom side. This way you dont need to rmove those braces and only drill thro 1 layer of metal. All you need to do is drill those welds out from the inner to seat panel and then bend that lip down so you can slide the new panel in. If done from the top you have to bend the inner quarter lip and rocker lip up, that rocker is pretty heavy gauge to bend, that inner rocker is thin stuff bends easily. Now you can postion the new seat panel over the inner lip and to inner wheel wells and that seem at the back. Plus doing it from the top you drill thro 3 layers of metal on that seem also. :( that one sucks. If memory serves me right the seat panel is the bottom layer..talk about easy.

Fit the seat panel to every thing a few times checking its fit to third brace, you might find that you need to tweak the rear panel some what to fit the brace. Once you have the fit you like you can screw the panel and brace in place, few tacks there and here for good measure. You might need to adjust the rear panel somewhat to fit the new floor, but not much as you have tons of alignment points on that panel.

Ok now on to the floors. When I do mine i do the whole floor in the two halves, not front and back sections left and right, that system is for the birds. I bought mine from paddock because they were the only company to offer a full florr that included a tranny tunnel. No other company offers that floor. The best thing about that is, #1 you have a fresh unmolested tunnel, #2 you have only one seem to weld shut the length of the floor instead of two like the others. I do my floors one half at a time. I do the driver's side first. I start by laying the half over the old floor and tracing its outline onto the floor. That way I knew somewhat where at floor covers. Now I cut about 3 inches inside that trace mark that is on the tunnel and firewall. Now am only dealing with two halves of floor and not one full floor. Remove any spot welds still on that floor half. Now with the old floor half out you can now go about fitting the new floor half to the car. Fit the floor to the braces and to the old remaining floor. Since you allready fit the new braces to the old floor, those braces are in the proper position, you need to tweak the floor to fit the braces. Continue to tweak, fit the new floor half with the braces and old floor half til you have the fit you like. Once you have the fit, screw it down and a few tacks. Now do the other side of the floor.

The whole reason I do the floor replacement piece by piece is because you fit each new piece to the remianing old pieces, making the fitment of the car better and easier. It sounds like a lot of time to do piece by piece, but it saves time. The last floor I did I thought I would try it a new different way, since every thing would be new-braces-floor, I would just start up the plamsa cutter and start cutting. BIG MISTAKE It took three times as long as I was constantly fitting this to that and then moving it around to get the fit. I only knew where the floor would go to the rockers-cowl, braces to the inner, didnt knew where the braces needed to be on the floor and the heighth they needed to be etc. You want to teach your kids an education on four letter words replace the floor that way graemlins/angry.gif graemlins/angry.gif graemlins/clonk.gif

When I get feeling back in my fingers :( Ill do the rest of car...Eric

EXCELLENT stuff, Sevt, EXCELLENT! This is priceless information for the non-pros.....

I could visualize everything you were talking about. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I printed your reply out so I can use it as a "manual", so to speak.

Thanks!

Crankshaft