I have been helping out my friend working on his car for the past few months. He is a really good friend of mine and said he would pay me for the work done on his car. Here is a list of the stuff I did on his car:

-Remove old Vinyl top/mouldings
-Strip entire roof/sand to bare metal
-Remove old filler on roof to 1/4 seam
-Welded up HUGE holes on both 1/4 panels where the vinyl trim sits
-Welded up pinholes in trunklid below rear window
-Ground down welds and prepped for filler
-Prepped roof and sprayed etch primer/epoxy primer
-Put down a rough coat of filler on the 1/4 seams

So far I have about 4-5 days long days of work into it. He also want's me to help him with his interior and do the following:

- Dye rear seat with vinyl spray
- Install carpet/soundproofing
- Tear out old door panels and install new ones(not the ready to go model, requires old door panel piece)

One shop wanted over $4000 to fix his rust since it was soo bad. I told him I would help him out and do it for him. Since I don't do this everyday for a living, I have no idea what to charge him. Anyone out there have any idea what is a fair price to charge?

Thanks

If he is a REALLY Good Friend... a case of Beer.

It doesn't sound like you made any formal agreement as to the fees..he said, he'd pay you, but what was your reply? Are you HELPING him or are you DOING IT ALL? eitherway, many here would likely say, I don't charge really good friends, but if they haunt me about wanting to pay me for my time or advice..best I might say.."whatever you think is fair?" but honestly, I wouldn't charge a friend unless we formally agreed that the work was being done as if I was a Garage doing work on a car...it's a tough call.

That's my 2 cents

Originally posted by ss396boy:
I have been helping out my friend working on his car for the past few months. He is a really good friend of mine and said he would pay me for the work done on his car.

Thanks he is a really good friend= nothing, the dept is already paid. he is a GOOD FRIEND. that what friends do.

I said exacly what you said "Whatever he thinks is fair." I did about 95% of the work for him.

I forgot to mention is also a 2 1/2 hour drive to his house. So, I end up eating up lots of gas $$ and time having to gather all my tools to bring them to his house (ie compressor, air tools, sandpaper). Also, I end up having to cough up all the expenses so he can save money? Hmm, I guess I should find out all the expenses that I have paid and charge him for that at least.

What would you charge a "neighboor"? :D

Still I say NOTHING. Unless you set something up formally, you should have thought about all this before you started. Like I said, I have friends that just won't take NO! for an answer, incist, HAUNT me...and sometimes if pushed, I might just say whatever you feel is fair, but that almost never happens, usually I just go with the "CASE of BEER " line...it tells them, I don't really want money, but makes them feel better that they did something.

Nada is the Right answer., just tell him flat out. " no way man, friends help each other."

I dont know what to tell you to chrge but ill tell ya what happened to me,I started "helping"a friend first it fixing the exhaust on his car,that was no problem so i told him no charge not to worry about it,then it was chenging trannys in his truck,still no charge,then one thing after another,well that still did'nt bother me then finally he wanted me to build the engine in his truck,take it out,put it in,while he was at work.well it was the week before i was going to the beach,by the time the machine work got done it was 2 days till i left for the beach and I got the engine in and everything hooked up,and one of the exhaust bolts broke off in the head,by this time it was 11:00 the night before i was leaving for the beach,i was suppose to leave at 4:00 that morning.Well i told him i got it that far and he would have to get the bolt out anf put the exhaust manifold on,oh lord he got mad and said what am i suppose to dao know,like i sohould have canceled my trip to the beach to finish his engine,needless to say i wen to the beach,and when i got back he had the truck going but after that we just did'nt get along as good.The moral to this story is some freinds not all,think if you help them once like that after a few times they get to expecting everything you do for them done for free,and they think you should drop everything you are doing to take care of them.So use your own judgement.

What was your agreement up front? You said that your friend offered to pay you. Well what did you agree to? He then owes you what you agreed. Sounds simple to me. However,if you did not agree on the worth of you labor $$$ up front you are at the mercy/generosity of your friend. Having said that your friend should realize that you time, effort, friendship and out of pocket expenses are worth something. A case of beer does not come close. If I was your friend I'd pay you $10.00 an hour plus some gas money. Otherwise I'd be taking advantage of the friendship. (See Crownate's story)You would then determine it that was fair or make a counter-offer. If you can't agree its time to walk away and reevaluate the friendship. Friends don't take advantage of friends.

Originally posted by 66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE:
Still I say NOTHING. usually I just go with the "CASE of BEER " line...it tells them, I don't really want money, but makes them feel better that they did something.

Nada is the Right answer., just tell him flat out. " no way man, friends help each other." I'll buy you a case of beer if you paint my car... you supply all the paint out of your pocket and I'll give you a case of beer.

Fair deal right? I didn't think so.

Food,Beverages&Fuel costs that would cover it. If you enjoy the friendship and it doesn't feel like work because your having fun thats it.

I've done many jobs for a case, usually cases, of beer, but I always require expenses of materials unless they are under $50 or so. Choose friends wisely...there are those that you will help a lot, but they will always repay you in some way. There are other people that expect your help and never think of giving - you must ask yourself why these type of people are your friends.

Have your friend cover your expenses and let him know that there will come a day when the favor can be returned. He should be satisfied with that.

Obviously you would charge him for any parts you had to buy, or expendables- Or he should be providing them in the first place.

But The labor itself- Unless you talked about it ahead of time, should be free if indeed your friend is a friend. I don't charge my friends money when i help them- and None have ever asked me for money when helping me...

In the past, when I HAVE asked friends to come over and "Help" me with a job i can't really do(ie: they are doing most of a job) I make sure i have enought food & beer to keep em happy, and I always make sure they have a full tank of gas before going home.

I would never expect them to provide expendable stuff- and if they did i WOULD reimburse them for that stuff, but i would try and make sure i could buy that stuff myself ahead of time.

My $.02

I charge my buddies matr only and then get even later when I need help.

I understand where 66 Mystery Chevelle is coming from and support his approach minus cost of materials and parts. You didn't work out a deal before doing the work so if I were you I would figure out what out of pocket expenses you have and tell him you would like to recoupe what you spent on him and that you put x amount of hrs of labor into his car.

Tell him you didn't plan on working for free but since you didn't agree on anything up front it's his call beyond what you spent. If he agrees you were working for him,not doing him a favor you can find out what a tech at a body shop in your area gets per hr and adjust the rate from there...

If he says he thought it was a favor, write it off. Maybe he can return the favor some day...

Charge him a case or two of beer for the labor. But materials are his problem, if you paid for the paint,primer sandpaper then HE SHOULD PAY FOR THAT.

I have a every similiar setup with a good friend of mine. He's a Ford mechanic am a body man, we make a great team. About a week ago I had him come over and rebuild the carb on velle. I sure as HELL didnt expect him to pay for the carb kit, even thou he did buy at the store, I PAID HIM LATER for the kit.

He's building a 86-87 T-Bird doing the Pro-Sreet treatment to it. I did the back half and installed new floor etc, I didnt buy the back half or new aluminum for the floor. So why should you buy the paint???

Its the same way with tools at work. I only let the guys use something of mine if they have something that I can use.

Ive yet to charge anything for my labor and either has he, sorry but materials should be his problem not yours...Eric

Dennis and I agree graemlins/hurray.gif ;)

I think it goes without question that you're not responsible for materials. A good friend would have alraedy kept a mental figure of materials and gas, etc... and handed you money to cover that part...check that...mine always do smile.gif

YOU asked what would you charge, I said what I WOULD DO.

Mike...Can I be your friend ??? FREE BEERS graemlins/beers.gif graemlins/beers.gif

Friendship is an exchange of support, and sharing of experiences. Good Friends ALWAYS try to make sure there is a balance.

Horse Trading labor can be a part of that but, it has to be EQUAL. Any other outcome results in someone feeling or being abused.

You suggest that now the drive is a problem, etc. etc. You are already feeling abused. If you don't sit down with him figure out what is fair, this will damage the "friendship".

Do you "owe" him for his help on your stuff, or have you gotten yourself into someone elses' problem.

Don't mix business and pleasure!!

Getting together with a buddy, breaking bread, and having some beverage and bsing together while you do stuff, is a part of friendship.

Restoring someones car for anything less than fair compensation is not.

Are you practicing on his car to hone your skills?
That can justify lower labor. Always get paid expenses!! If you are an experienced auto person, doing it for any less than you make after taxes during the day, that is BAD business.

Like I said, if you are trading labor, no problem, otherwise, get it worked out RIGHT NOW!

Karl

Karl, you have all the important points covered. The most important things are that friends work TOGETHER. A true friend probably wouldn't let you spend money for materials and direct expenses without an immediate offer of reimbursement!

I certainly don't charge friends for labor nor do they charge me as long as we are sharing the "experience" together. If the togetherness isn't there, it's no longer a favor, it's a commercial deal. When and if the time comes that I were to feel a need to charge a friend, I would avoid doing the work if at all possible. I try to not do paid jobs for friends or relatives. They can be your worst, pickiest customers.

If this was a true case of a friend helping a friend I don't think SS396boy would have felt he needed to post the question for us. The fact that he has asked for our thoughts indicates to me that he has some serious doubts about the fairness of the arrangement. I sense that his friend is taking advantage of him and SS396boy (what is your real name?)is concerned.
The fact that this project is already into day 5 with a continuing list of work, the long drives, and that SS396boy is fronting the money indicates something is not on the level. Come on guys, if you asked a friend to help you out would you treat him the way SS396boy has been treated? I hope not. I hope you all would treat a friend with fairness and compensate him appropriatly. Sorry guys a case or two of beer for all the work SS396 has put in is just too cheep which is another way of saying how much value is placed on the friendship.
I agree friends help each other out. So what is the other guy got to offer?

I agree w/vette... My rule that I tell EVERYONE up front is, you come over and help, you buy the beer, food, etc. I do it myself, $25/hr plus parts. Most places around here now START at 50-65 and go to 90. I write 'em out a time ticket. They get the parts cheaper, too 'cause I'm on the buddy plan @ the parts house, and I don't upcharge 10-15%. I also observe this rule when we reciprocate. Everyone is aboveboard, and happy. Works well with my friend the lawyer and my neighbor the plumber.

Just have him cover expenses, and don't worry about the rest. If you charge him for labor, you're setting yourselves up for a fall.

I've worked for friends and family before, and I've been paid for it. They always seem to want a lifetime warranty on whatever I worked on, plus anything else within 20 yards of where I did the work (exaggerating).

I painted a good friend's car for him a couple of years ago. I would never do it again (SO much work) but he's been my best friend since I was a kid, so for him it was ok. He paid for materials, and helped with labor, and we shot the car in my garage. I didn't have to do any commuting to work on the car. Didn't mind doing it for free, but it did take a lot longer than I planned on, so I didn't get as much done on my own cars that summer.
If he hadn't been a good friend I probably would have worked out some kind of $ agreement beforehand. I think you are justified in having him kick in gas money and obviously he'd owe you for any materials you bought. Good luck!

I'm in this situation as we speak. A friend of mine is bumping the quarters and roof. I get over there whenever I can to help. Even if it means cleaning up and getting tools for him. I've paid for all the materials and beer graemlins/beers.gif And when it's all said and done, I'll give him some cash to thank him. Even though he said he'd do it for nothing. I know it would cost MUCH more if I went to a shop to have it done. We all help each other when it comes to working on cars. Usually who's ever house we're at, the fridge is stocked.

This is a tough one. I have walked in these shoes too many times and to be honest, I basically do not lend my time out anymore. I have had many friends really take advantage of situations and even though I wanted to leave these people hanging, I always did the right thing and ended up finishing things or whatever the case may be. Maybe if your friend has some other talents to offer you (carpentry, piano lessons), swap it out with him. Make him contribute things to even out the load. I remember one year I was gonna help a friend replace the rear main seal in his s-10 with a 2.8. He showed up that morning and said his wife was gonna pick him up that afternoon. She shows up about 2 hours later and I saw him again when the truck was done. I used up the better part of a christmas weekend fixing it and that was the one that broke the straw. Another friend (and this is basically the only I do things with when it comes to car work) showed up at the house on a week day when I was at work and cleaned my garage. I mean pulled everything out, scrubbed the floors, and wiped everyhting down. that is a rare person.

Good luck,
John Weaver

Ithink your friggin nuts a 2 1/2 hour drive no way tell him have the car sit at your place until the work is done or its too far of a drive, unless he has a hot wife.

If he is a real friend then beverages should sufice!
graemlins/beers.gif

Although not car-related, it it topic-related. I did a remodel for a friend. He lives close and insisted on helping. He bought all of the material (except some nails, assorted wire and a few other items I had lying around waiting to be used). I even ended up buying a couple new tools to do the job right. They are mine. His fridge was well stocked, his wife is a really good cook, (lunch and even dinner if I was there late!). We made the financial agreement BEFORE I started work. I charged him $20/hr and we were both happy. Neither was watching the clock, and neither was taken advantage of. He ended up with a really nice living/family room, an office area in his garage re-arranged and some computer work to boot for about 20-25% of what the labor should have cost him. I wouldn't have done it for Joe Schmoe for less than $60 per hour. Although a "non-friend" would have made me pay for the hole my foot put through his ceiling when I fell in the attic ;)
Staying friends is more important than making a profit. If you feel like you have been taken advantage of, you let it happen. Give him the receipts for materials as soon as you pay for them. Gas for the trip is a tough one. Maybe you should have made him bring the car to you if that was an issue. BTW, 2 &1/2 hours is only 45 miles in Los Angeles county! :eek:
Dan
+++

My neighbor and I do a lot of stuff for each other. Usually he is way ahead of me on things as he is real handy. He has done plumbing and electrical and other odd jobs and I have worked on his families vehicles. We just "bill" each other for any parts or supplies. If he gets ahead of me I will usually find some tool I know he needs or even found his wife a nice set of used golf clubs for a hundred bucks and throw them in, and sometimes I just take over a meal when I know they have been busy. Sometimes it probably isn't any cheaper then just hiring it out, but he usually is willing to come over at the drop of a hat to help me out in an emergency. That's what I think friends do for each other. smile.gif

hey.. well i work on all my friends cars.. not as much work as you did but..... i do all i can to help them out with their cars.. i dont want anything in return because as i see it im just practicing car crafting and in the end all that practice will pay off for me.. im 18 so im still just learning .. so i look forward to my friends letting me experinent on their cars.. and i love working on cars so i take every chance i get

Originally posted by AHSOM70:
Obviously you would charge him for any parts you had to buy, or expendables- Or he should be providing them in the first place.

But The labor itself- Unless you talked about it ahead of time, should be free if indeed your friend is a friend. I don't charge my friends money when i help them- and None have ever asked me for money when helping me...

In the past, when I HAVE asked friends to come over and "Help" me with a job i can't really do(ie: they are doing most of a job) I make sure i have enought food & beer to keep em happy, and I always make sure they have a full tank of gas before going home.

I would never expect them to provide expendable stuff- and if they did i WOULD reimburse them for that stuff, but i would try and make sure i could buy that stuff myself ahead of time.

My $.02 AHSOM70 got it right.............. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Gas, food, & expences should be covered by your friend. Everyone needs a helping hand at one point or another. I never charge friends for my work. However, they return the favors when I need help taking the top off my blazer.

How about a project he can help you with - maybe something like you guys clearing a few trees and then pouring some concrete for that basketball court you always wanted.

A day for a day - keep them about even as you go.