Im helping a friend out with his 90 beretta 2.2l but i don't know hardly anything about these 'new' cars. If he only had a distributor i could help him out. Im wondering if some of you can help me out.
Here the problem; his car just died on him at a stop light. He pushed it into a parking lot and tried to start it. It finally started but was shaking real bad. He was actually able to drive it home. His check engine light was flashing so i pulled the code and it said the oxygen sensor was bad. We replaced it and still had problems. The light went off after we replaced it but it was still running rough. I put my spark plug tester on each of the 4 cylinders and heres the result.
#1 light was flashing good
#2 light was not flashing
#3 light was just barely visibly flashing
#4 light was flashing good

#2 and #3 wires are good and they go to the same coil pack. #1 and #4 wire are good also and go to the other coil pack. Both coil packs are mounted to the same 'plate'.
I figured the coil pack was bad so we replaced it. Result: #2 still had no spark and now #3 which had a small amount of power now has none.

This is how far i got. I have a Haynes manual for it but it references the 6 cyls. more and i am getting lost and frustrated. I really want to help him out because he is very broke and can barely afford food. Theres no way a shop would fix this for less than $200 im guessing. I could do it if I knew what was wrong.

Please, anyone with some knowledge or ideas share some info.

Thanks alot,
Chris

My suggestion is go to a wrecker, the u pull it type and get some different coils/module. They cost $15CDN for the 2 coils on the module. At least the ones for my 3.1V6 did up here. Worst case car is exact same and you can rule out coils/module.

Something else to remember is that these cars use a wasted spark system. So the plugs fire twice as often. I know my timming light does not work at all on my Cavalier.

Steve

A flashing check engine light usually means a cylinder missfire code. I would do a full complete tune up first. You already replaced both coil packs which is likely causing part of the problem. Is there any corrosion on the plug wire terminals? I would replace the plugs and wires too if you havent done so yet.

full tune up was done about 2 months ago. plugs, wires are still good. The code flasheda 1-3 and i looked it up to be a oxygen sensor. I don't think that sensor was THE problem but yet a older problem which was causing the car to vary RPM's at idle.
We only replace the 2-3 coil pack to see if thats what it was. I thought i had traced it back to the coil pack but i dont know what comes BEFORE the coil pack to test it. There are two prongs that stick out the back of the 'plate' that the coil pack plugs into but i don't know what to check before that.

Drop the exhaust pipe off the manifold and try it. Just had this same problem on my son's Explorer. The catalytic converter had clogged. It gave no warning either. It's like something melted down all of sudden and stopped up the exhaust. It also threw O2 sensor codes.

Replace the ign module its under the coil pack it send the signal to fire the coils. Wayne

Drop the exhaust pipe off the manifold and try it. Just had this same problem on my son's Explorer. The catalytic converter had clogged. It gave no warning either. It's like something melted down all of sudden and stopped up the exhaust. It also threw O2 sensor codes.

Would this cause the #2 and #3 cyls to not fire?

The Explorer also misfired badly. His would start and run, but it had a bad misfire that acted like dead cylinders. Don't know if the exhaust system being clogged up caused the spark to be snuffed out at the plugs. If the cylinder pressures got high enough, it can happen. And it wouldn't rev past 1200 RPM which initially prompted me to think that it was the fuel pump going bad.

A clogged cat will cause all sorts of weird things. It's easy enough to check.

but was shaking real bad. His check engine light was flashing so i pulled the code and it said the oxygen sensor was bad. We replaced it and still had problems. The light went off after we replaced it but it was still running rough. I put my spark plug tester on each of the 4 cylinders and heres the result.
#1 light was flashing good
#2 light was not flashing
#3 light was just barely visibly flashing
#4 light was flashing good

#2 and #3 wires are good and they go to the same coil pack. #1 and #4 wire are good also and go to the other coil pack. Both coil packs are mounted to the same 'plate'.
I figured the coil pack was bad so we replaced it. Result: #2 still had no spark and now #3 which had a small amount of power now has none.




Thanks alot,
Chris
Unless you screwed up the install on the 2/3 coil pack or have a couple of bad plug wires there is nothing else that could cause no spark to cyls 2 and 3.I agree with Wayne, replace the ignition module and make sure you use the new coil.The old coil may work with the replacement ignition module but will cause it to fail eventually.Did you happen to check if the injectors to cyl 2 and 3 were pulsing?

Replace the ign module its under the coil pack it send the signal to fire the coils. Wayne

Wayne is on to something! The only other thing that would cause your problem is the module, taking into consideration you changed the right coil pack. (I would double check that first) I have seen the crankshaft sensor do this once (but only once ) So doubtfull. The check engine light WILL NOT come on for a missfire on that year make and model(pre obd 2). The o2 code is probably old. A rich code for you is code 45 which it should be rich. For future refference to check a static coil just measure resistence at the coil towers. They each should be close to the same between 10k and 14k ohms. If its in bad shape it will read over 20k ohms or out of limits. If you suspect a bad coil just swap one to the other and see if the problem moves if it does replace the coil if it doesnt replace the module. You may want to recheck the plugs after the fix (could have fuel fowled)Good luck, Paul.

i agree with hanny
i just did a head job on a 92,and i knock off the cranksensor and it was running with weak spark.found sensor off and one other in that same area and everything clear up.plugs can foul out pretty quick too.

I didnt bother checking the 2 and 3 injectors because i had already concluded that spark was definatley a problem on those two wire. wires and plugs are in good shape. We evn switched 2 and 3 wires to 1 and 4 and the same problem persisted. I used an inline spark plug tester that goes between the plug and end of the wire.
Also, #2 plug was wet and exhaust was very rich smelling. Another thing was that about half way down the exhaust the tube was glowing red. Im assuming its from the unburned fuel.
It has to be that the coils are not getting a signal to fire. The only thing that can do it i would think is the module (which we got out today). The module looked fine but i know there's a circuit board inside (because i pryed it open! we're getting a new one anyways..) and on the module where a harness clips in, there seemed to be some oily residue inside on the prongs. It smelt like p.s. fluid. Could that have dripped in and shorted something out?
How do these modules go bad? Do they just get old or get shorted out somehow?>

I didnt bother checking the 2 and 3 injectors because i had already concluded that spark was definatley a problem on those two wire. wires and plugs are in good shape. We evn switched 2 and 3 wires to 1 and 4 and the same problem persisted. I used an inline spark plug tester that goes between the plug and end of the wire.
Also, #2 plug was wet and exhaust was very rich smelling. Another thing was that about half way down the exhaust the tube was glowing red. Im assuming its from the unburned fuel.
It has to be that the coils are not getting a signal to fire. The only thing that can do it i would think is the module (which we got out today). The module looked fine but i know there's a circuit board inside (because i pryed it open! we're getting a new one anyways..) and on the module where a harness clips in, there seemed to be some oily residue inside on the prongs. It smelt like p.s. fluid. Could that have dripped in and shorted something out?
How do these modules go bad? Do they just get old or get shorted outsomehow?>

Heat and time does it! Just a common problem with any electrical circuit
over time the circuit board breaks down and doesnt allow enuf current transfer. The other issue is that a coil with too much resistance can cause a module ground control side to overheat. Sounds like you replaced one of the coils but I would still ohms check both and refer to the specs I gave you before. The coil is a pretty powerfull unit that can produce up to 40,000 volts (low amp tho) it has power all the time and is grounded by the module. The coil on a DIS system fire a little different then you might think some fire on a waist spark, that is it sparks whenever 1or4 is ready like yours. Some theorize that they fire out one side of the coil thru the block and back in the other side of the coil Ive done some testing on this theory and I`m not 100% convinced. either way its pretty high volts that if you have a plug wire with high resistance (breaking down causes the coil to put out more kv`s then its supposed to) or wide plug gap this can have a cause and effect if not dealt with early enuf. First goes the coil then goes the module. Then goes your wallet. Good luck.

I have a cousin with a 90 lumina 2.8L.Keeps losing the center coil.She's on her 3rd coil pack for cyls 2/5.Eventually I'll have to replace the ignition module but I still have a couple of KGO coils leftover.Its the module thats ruining the coils in this case.