Hello everyone i have been very busy this last few months but it is almost over and then time comes for the fun part. Restoring and customizing a 1965 malibu ss conv. The car has been sitting in my yard for the last 5+ years and i decided to do it right from the ground up. They car is going to need new body panels (all of them), new engine and trans, upgrading to front and rear disc brakes, power steering, air conditioning, and so on. I have alot of experience in body work and painting. I used to do it for a living back in the day. So my area that isn't so bright would be the mechanical side of the resto. This is where my dad comes in. He has built quite a few motors and has some hands on experience fixing odd part on cars (trans, brake upgrades and stuff like that). The big problem is that niether one of us have ever done a frame off. Is there alot of things that I might miss when planing an attack? Have any of you had experience on things not fitting the way they should? How often do you overspend? If you were going to do it again what would you do different? If there is any questions that i might have missed that you feel is important please let me know. Thanks for you time and look forward to hearing your resonces.

1965 Malibu ss (hardtop) pics
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2270451/1

1965 Malibu ss conv. (project car)

you need lots of room

Did a frame off on a 64 Chevy C-10 Short Box Fleetside in 96 or so and a 59 Impala around 1999.
Ton of work, Every nut, bolt, fastener, bracked, cable, wire will need to be cleaned, painted, replaced, plated, refurbished, ect.
"how often do you overspend?" - Figure out what you think it will cost you (and be very realistic) and triple it and you will be close. I am sure others will agree with this statement. This will not be a budget project by any stretch especially since you need to replace all of the body panels.
It will also take 3 times as long as you think it will, This is the reason you see so many "project cars" for sale. They rip them apart and see how much work it will take to re-assemble and the project stalls, Money runs out (or ambition) and they sell the pile to the next guy.
It's do-able but you need to be in it for the long haul. Think everything through and try to get a good chunk of the cash up front to keep you going.
Remember, It's usually cheaper to buy a car already completed than to build one. The cash up front is more but in the long run it;s usually cheaper.

Good luck.

LK

You CAN do this yourself, especially if you have the body work, welding and mechanical skills or have friends to help -- which it sounds like you do. Get a service manual and an assembly manual and study them. Try to get a feel for the way the car is put together. You will need space to do this, at least a two car garage, because there are a lot of parts. Take a lot of pictures and label everything. Don't through anything away, you may discover later that what you through away is not replaceable. You will also need a lot of time, expect to take something like two years.

Probably not a lot you will miss if you are mechanically inclined, just go at it methodically. The biggest fit issues I had were with reproduction sheet metal or after market speed parts. You WILL overspend because you will run into hidden problems (e.g. rusty body supports). The biggest thing I would have done differently was research repro suppliers more because they are not all the same.

I did it, took me four yrs. I had a dedicated garage space just for that project so I could leave stuff laying around. Get yourself every manual for your car that is available. Take LOTS of pics (I took over 100 and it was none too much!)- you will be amazed at how much you will forget about "what went where and how...". I also made some crude drawings if the pics didn't really help me.
Don't be afraid to walk away from it once in a while. If you're not in the mood, don't work on it. BTDT!! It's truly amazing how much you can get done when if "feels right."

The money and time issues that have been mentioned are probably realistic. It WILL cost more and it WILL take more time-count on it! Bottom line, it sounes like between you and your dad, it can be done. Good luck and have fun. Keep us posted as you dive in.

It can be done! I had not been involved in anything like that before and with the help of this site, a assembly manual, lots of baggies and a pens, and a camera I was able to do it!
Check old posting on this subject that cover the do's and dont's.

It takes alot of time and money!!!!

I kind-of understand why you all say it will cost 3 times what i figure but if i make a complete list of things that i know i will encounter and add some things that i think i might encouter. If that saying is true i am figuring about 30k to have it completed and your saying that it will be more like 90k? The car will be very nice when all done. What kind of things will an average person miss when doing a quote of what $ it will take. I understand that it will take a while but i can't seeing it taking a couple years. If you work on it off and on then take a month of here and there then i can see it taking that long. When i start a project i am almost 100% dedicated to it. Thanks for you help. Josh

the biggest factor is hidden rust. And some people when they restore a car they start with a plan and has they go about that plan, they keep adding things. to make it bigger and better, and some people just don’t know when to say when. I don’t know if some of the people say when they do there quotes if they factor in there time and add that to the cost. They also might factor in the tools, some of the other machines, and products they didn’t have before they started.

I am just finishing up a frame off on a 72 chevelle price tag coming in right around $45,000. I only needed front fenders for the body my quarters were replased several years back and were still good. I had my frame powdercoated and many other parts.I used a crate engine, pro built trans. Put front and rear disk brakes,all new interior, all new lenses (tail light,turn signal) aluminum radiator billet specialtes tru trac serpentine system, Ricks stainless steel gas tank. All new suspension stock front, hotchkis rear.And many new screws nuts bolts ect. ect.
Take many pictures and lable everything good luck and most of all have a great time.:thumbsup: :hurray:

Some of the price people seem to have are unreal to me. Unless I am adding my cost up wrong I bought the car for $400, will have roughly $4500 in sheet metal, anther 5K in body and paint, and then 7K in engine, $1,500 in the interior, and about 3K in misalliance. Gives me about 19K in total granted I am doing 95% of the work my self. I can’t see were people can have upwards in 30K in there cars.

Josh, I think you could pull off a nice resto for $30K if you're going to do mostly your own work.

Key to this will be starting with a car that mostly has all the pieces. By this I don't mean that everything has to be "good", just that it should mostly be "there". This will keep you from having to source all types of bits and pieces, many of which don't necessarily need to be replaced, just cleaned up and restored (examples include dash components, engine brackets, linkage, interior pieces, lenses).

You can do it for 30,000. You just need to learn how do what need's to be done. That's how I'm doing it, alot of work.

Another consideration is buying parts. Do you have the time and cash on hand to wait and pick up bargains, or do you need the parts now? I have saved quite a bit by picking up deals, before I needed them.
Also, are you going to buy all repo or NOS parts, or restore what you have, such as trim.

Actually, frame off is the way to go. It breaks the project up for you, so you can complete different areas in steps, so you are not bogged down with a project that doesn't show any progress.

Just remember, as well, if you sink $30K into it it might not bring that if you have to resell it. I know several guys who redid cars, they sank serious money in them only to find out later that they couldn't get out of their car what they had in it, just for parts!

Take lots of pictures, from every angle, BEFORE YOU START. You will not be sorry. I know I wasn't.

I'm doing a ground up restoration on a 67 convertible and it has been a lot more work than I thought at first. But it will be worth it in the long run. So far there has been a lot of good advice. But I would like to also suggest you take a video camera and film your car inch by inch talking as you go. This helped me remember a lot. Already stated but take numerous pictures, make your own drawings, they help. And as far as cost, just ask my wife, it's been a lot more than I first estimated, and that's only what she knows about. With your experience you should save a lot of cost. (Labor) Take care and Good Luck!!! Clyde

The big question on cost is: Are you doing a "Correct" or a just a restored cruiser? Repo parts or original(NOS). It can be real costly doing a "Correct" restoration. Believe me I know first hand. Did it in my two car garage with little problem.

I have 15k in my car right now and my body is on the rotisserie and my engine is half built. No interior or trim or seals

I am doing a resto/custom project that alot of you probably wouldn't think about doing to your toys. I am 24 so my view on what i would like is a little different. This is my 65 hardtop http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2270451/1 . I drive this car on a regular basis. I love it.This is along the lines that i am going to be following. Really quickly here are the big money items that i will be spending.

10,000 - 502 ramjet motor and trans (this is not for sure yet) (dad installing)
4,500- rims and tires (me installing)
2,500- air ride suspension ( me installing)
2,000- sheetmetal parts ( me installing)
1500- paint ( me paint it)
2000- powdercoating frame and all parts ( someone doing it for me)
2000- upgrade both front and rear disc brakes ( dad helping)
1400- air conditioning ( dad helping)
5000- misc
____________
32,900

I know i was generous in alot of the areas but that is how i help with the misc stuff that i missed. I am thinking about going cheaper on the motor to help with the cost but i will see. So do you think i missed alot? I know i don't have upholstery in there and that is because i am not sure how extreme or stock i want to go. Either way i am aware that i am kissing up the misses trying to get her approval to put more money into the car.

I was in my early 20's when I did mine so I can relate.

In your sheet metal estimate, how much do you need to replace? I did partial quarters, NOS fenders and valance, front floors, trunk pans , trunk body braces 15 years ago at it was over $1000. I had to do a little repair work to the floor braces, but they were basically good as were my rear floor pans. I'm not suggesting $2K isn't enough, but if you've got to replace much more than I did, you could be short.

I'd be surprised if $1500 is enough for paint, filler, sealers, abrasives, etc. Don't forget that you've got to paint the trunk, underbody, interior panels etc.

Disc brakes, $2K could be a bit high if you want basic factory style brakes; but not by much.

Interiors parts, if you need pretty much everything everything, will be over $1000.

Rubber parts and weather-strip will be somewhere around $1000. IMO this is kind of big ticket to be part of "miscellaneous".

You didn't have anything listed for the following:
Rear end -- these can be big ticket if you want posi or a new housing.
Wiring -- I suggesting figuring our how to repair your own unless it's a total basket case.
Bumpers and trim -- this can also sneak up on you and you could end up with over $1000 spent. If yours is okay, you can always use it now and replace it at some point in the future to save on your budget.

All said, I think your estimate isn't unreasonable considering that nearly half is in motor and wheels/tires.

What I would reccommend also is as you disassemble the car you make a step by step list of your removal steps so a year later you don't have to try and remember what part goes in first when your reassembling. You will simply be able to reverse your removal steps.

Your budget doesn't look to bad. The 5k in misc will be used up in a heart beat by tools,cleaners,surprises and sandpaper, it's the little stuff that adds up fast.Take lots and lots of pictures, and don't be surprised if it takes twice as long as you think it should. Good luck and one step at a time, finish a piece and then move on to the next.

I am also doing a frame off. The body is off the frame and I have the entire frame ready for restoration. All the suspension, brake/fuel lines...everything is off. I was going to POR 15 the entire frame, I then found a guy fairly close to me that was putting in a large oven for frame jobs. However, he is still not ready and this is holding up my restoration. I am debating going back and just putting the POR 15 on the frame. Should I wait to Powdercoat or push forward with the POR 15.

i amworking on a frame off now on a 71 . i thought it would cost me about 15000.00 to do it ss clone. i am now over 20,000 and counting. i am doing all the work myself except the seat covers,headliner,vinyl roof. im going on 3 years now,and the car is still in peices. but it should be coming together soon. the frame and chassie is where i misjudged the cost.
the moter and rear was 5000.00 , once you take off the frame your pretty much committed to finish or you stand to lose alot of money. youll run into things you never thought of.
many problems along the way. but t c is always here. i dont think i could have done it without everyones help. good luck with your project. take your time and enjoy.

Anything is possible...w/enough time, patience and yes, money.....I used many boxes of ziploc baggies, quite a few sharpies...and I finally found a use for the old digital camera....money's money right? Since I didn't have the capability for my own body and paint work (I was looking for show quality) I had to pay...and in this arena, you get what you pay for...I think my total for body and paint ended up being aroudnd $25k.....w/another $20k or so for all the other work..hey...ya can't take it w/you!...enjoy it while yer here!..good luck w/yours..

If you're doing major sheetmetal replacement I'd do it FIRST............. BEFORE you unbolt the body from the chassis. I've seen somebody take one apart, cut it all to pieces, then have trouble getting doors and trunk to fit right. If the original body bushings are all sagged and mashed as an alternative you may want to replace them with new stuff before you start whacking metal, using the original factory shims, then do the panel replacement before you take the car apart. I'm on the downslope of my 7th frame out now on my own stuff now, with 2 more old projects scattered and I've done it several different ways, but for me it works best to have the body roughed in, then take the car apart and do the underside of the shell while sending the chassis out to the powder coater. After it comes back I build all the suspension and wrap it up in plastic, AND THEN do the final body work and paint. I've done it that way on some with the drivetrain in, wrapped also, and others with it out and installed it after paint. My LS6 Chevelle is in the paint booth now with the drivetrain in and wrapped.

Above all, take plenty of pictures and document everything. What's crystal clear to you today may be foggy a year from now. It's also a good idea to buy large Rubbermaid storage bins from somewhere like Walmart and put similar parts in bins. Sandwich zip lock bags marked with a sharpie make sure you can remember what bolts and small parts are. Look for any factory inspection marks made with grease pens and paint and document them also. They're kinda neat even on a car that's not made dead original, and if you want to make it more original next time you'll have the information.

I'm not sure the RamJet 502 is the best bang for the buck among today's options. The 502/502 with a carb is a lot cheaper with very similiar performance, and the 625 horse 572 is a LOT cooler motor for only a couple or 3K more if you're in the 10K range already. I really like the 6 speed transmissions also. With roughly .75 overdrive in 5th and .5 in 6th and the torque of the big blocks you can make something that punches like a drag car and is running at a fast idle at highway speeds to save gas and be easy on the motor.

I recently bought 1000 4 mil 4" X 6" plastic bags with zip lock. I was taking an original 68 Chevelle apart and wanted to save every nut/bolt/clip etc as it was all original and never molested.
I also bought some 3 x 5 cards for descriptions. They fit perfectly inside these bags.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Plastic-Bag-4-x-6-W-Zipper-4mil-4X6ZIP4_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ25382QQitemZ755 7553362QQrdZ1

I know this seller has a lot of negatives, but I think given the volume they do, it's maybe justifiable ??? I didn't have a problem getting the bags.
These bags are much better than the ziploc or sandwich bags.

If you can find a 6" x 8" or 10", they might be helpful as well. I haven't searched for that size yet, but I could have used that size for a few items.

Another great way to keep your parts organized is the little cardboard parts boxes that the auto parts stores use. They are just the right size. 11" L X 5" W X 4" H. They have an open top and a finger pull slot.
I have numerous shelves made from 1 X 12 Pine that are specifically made for this size box.
You could probably buy them from the auto parts store, if you know how to go about it.
Nothing beats organization, especially on a long drawn out project.

Nate

Dream,
For me, it's more time consuming than 'hard' imo. The only hard part is the research that you put into it to get everything correct, not the actual labor itself, although I had a good solid project to begin with. Your at the right website though.

Buy a lift, either two post or four post.
made my frame-off real easy.
i can't imagine crawling around under a body up on blocks.
the guys that do it with the body only about 3'-4' in the air, i give them a LOT of credit.

david

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/data/500/medium/raw3.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/data/500/medium/undera.jpg (javascript:;)

No sweat man!

Thanks guys you are giving me the confidence that i needed to strat this monster of a project. I did have one question though. Since my budget is a little tight for the stuff i would like to put into my conv. is it possible to do a frame off and put back together and at the end put the motor and trans in. The reason i am saying this is because i am worried about my budget more i think about it and if i can get the car 90+% done my wife will see the amazing transformation and might be willing to allow more money to be spent. I know it might not be the best thing but i forgot to add for wiring, stainless gas tank, i haven't even thought about what the interior is going to cost but somewhere around 7-10K. I want to do this resto right and not have to do it again.

Yes, you can install motor and trans after everything is back together.

Regarding your wiring, I didn't mean to imply in my earlier post that you had to replace yours if it is in good shape. In fact, I would suggesting keeping yours if it's in good shape. Just clean it well.

Josh,
If you do go with new wiring, (and btw, I think it's a good idea with a car this old), you should go with M & H Electrical Fabricators. I have used their forward lamp and under dash harnesses on a 70 velle and I have to say they are top notch. Plug and play and worth the money. Great tech support as well.

Hey, I'm just up the road from you and if you need help in any way, just shoot me an email.
I'm currently working on a 64 Malibu convertible.
I don't think we've formally met, but I have seen your red Chevelle numerous times. Very nice !

Nate

I've had excellent experience with 'Lectric Limited also. I've used their stuff on Corvettes for years and have a new underhood harness for the El Camino now that I haven't installed yet.

Hey MR69, so you live in paso? That awesome since i don't know anyone else around here with chevelles. i see some driving but never got to meet them. What are you doing on your 64 conv.? We should get together some time and take a cruise up the coast or something. Talk to you soon.

I'll definitely be game for that as soon as I get this little 64 vert going.
I will definitely be driving it this spring and thru the summer.

I've got a 71 El Camino that I need to get saleable now, and then focusing on the 64.

The 64 will be getting a close ratio steering box, disc brake conversion, new engine, and hanging the front clip back on.
Interior will be going mostly stock, new carpet, seat covers, padded dash, NOS clock, and I've got an original tilt to slide in.

You're in A town, right ?

Nate

There are more parts than what you think there are! I'm right in the middle of my frame off and I have been putting everything in baggies, from what you described plan on using an impact hammer and PB Blaster to break those rusted body bolts. I reccommend stripping everything you can off of it and then try to find ways to lift your body up, If you need pics on how I did mine let me know, I will be able to email them to you. Always ask questions and have fun.

Easy-tell the old lady that she can visit the garage anytime she can. Its not hard but it takes a lot of time-Took me 5yrs. on my 72.............

You can do it. take your time and like everyone says lots of zip lock bags and lable everything even if your not gonna reuse it. Take pictures there's choices to be made that will be the biggest factor in the price. That and doing the work yourself I'am doin my 72 SS now its slow goin but thats OK. I'am doin the Chassis with a Eastwood Chassis Black kit. The cost is pretty cheap. Cleaned the frame myself alot of work but i saved the $ of sandblasting, A couple of hundred right there, money i can put into something else (like electric exhaust cut outs) Also when it comes to engines i know alot of people get crate engines, But if you have a long block you can rebuild it. and make it as hot as you want for about $3.000-$4,000 for a small block and use high end parts, better that you'll get in a crate engine. Big Bonus= The pride of doing it yourself. You'll feel it when you park at cruise night next to some guy who bought his Hot Rod . Besides that car will always be the guys who built it! Take a look at my pics to see what i've done so far. And TAKE YOUR TIME. AND SHOP AROUND! We are all here to help:D :thumbsup: :D :thumbsup:

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/data/500/medium/raw3.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:;)

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/data/500/medium/undera.jpg (javascript:;)

No sweat man!

Yo Lou! Nice Job, That looks sweet.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :cool: :cool:
That's just what i'am doin with the wood supports so i can roll my chassis out. Freakin Brilliant!