This car is a documented original SS, but I think the grille has been replaced. Can anyone tell me how to tell and/or what to look for?

http://thegypsy.com/john/chevelle/12Aug2003-FrontOpen.jpg

I've seen it said that the grille should be painted all black, but I'm fairly certain that I've seen a couple of images, including one in the 2000 Year One catalog, where it looks somewhat like what I have as pictured.

Also, the black part feels like plastic to me -- should it be metal?

Thanks...

- John...

Yea it may have been replaced, SS grill is painted black, except for the center rail (body color) and the two vertical trim pieces are not on a SS (cant tell in the photo if its the trim or painted silver). Also a SS has clear parking lights.

Ok -- thanks for the info (on the lights too!)

On that, I just started comparing our car to the featured 70 SS on the site here from September 2002. I noticed that the featured car doesn't have the little vertical parts that are on the bumper on ours. Are those also not normally on the SS front bumper?

- John...

Ok, while we're at it, I'm noticing other differences between our car and the featured one as far as SS stuff goes...

Here's our car from the side:
http://dcg.com/jgoggan/chevelle/12Aug2003-DrivSide.jpg

...and here is the featured Sept. 2002 70 SS:
http://www.chevelles.com/feature/sept02_topleftview.jpg

Note that difference in position of the SS logo on the front quarterpanel. Is mine positioned incorrectly? Did position vary at all depending on factory (this one came from the Leed's Plant in Kansas City)?

It's starting to worry me a bit -- although I have the original build sheet with matching VIN showing that it was an SS. I'm just wondering if maybe some major restoration/rebuild work was done somewhere along the way -- and they had to buy repro SS parts and put them on. Seems likely now... :(

- John...

John you have a good eye for detail. The featured car does have the emblems in the more correct position. If you want you can search this site and find out more details about SS cars.

I have indeed searched, it is just sometimes hard to find what everyone seem to agree is original. smile.gif

That featured car is an exact original except for being repainted, so I like to use it for all of my comparisons. smile.gif

In any case, I'll keep searching/looking too. I've also read Dan Carr's guide for identifying an SS -- although that is more from the standpoint of when you don't have some documentation like I have -- as opposed to proper positioning and such. So, I know I have a real SS -- I just don't know what has been redone and what hasn't yet. smile.gif

- John...

Front bumper guards were optional and not uncommon. Looks like you are missing the stainless steel trim that surrounds the upper and lower part of the grill. Grill should be flat black with the center bar body color - it is plastic and many originals have cracked over time. Missing the Chevelle emblem on the grill. I am also suspicious of the wheel trim - looks very wide on the outside. Pull off one of the trim rings and look at the wheel air valve - there should be a AO code stamped into the wheel at that location - which would match box 45 of the build sheet.

Ok -- I'll check for the AO when I get home tonight.

The wheel trim is indeed somewhat thick. You can see more pics of the car here: http://dcg.com/jgoggan/chevelle/

In the third picture down, you can see the wheel trim fairly well. Is that not accurate either then?

Thanks for the tips!

- John...

Yeah - the trim rings look incorrect but have no fear, Ground Up will have replacements for you, just get ready to spend some money on this and other things that pop up. You could probably build an entire 33 year old car from scratch with all the reproduced items that are available.

If you want to buy a new grill,GM still offers them.Go down to your local chevy dealer and he will get you one.Less then the aftermarket ones.It comes all silver,so you will have to paint it the correct black and the car color.

Originally posted by George Halpin:
Grill should be flat black with the center bar body color - it is plastic and many originals have cracked over time.I actually did some checking and seem to have found some people with the same color car as we have (cranberry red with the black stripes from the factory) where the center bar was painted black (again, from the factory that way). It appears that in some cases, they were not painted the body color.

In any case, our grille is definitely incorrect -- so we'll try to remedy that one day when we have some extra cash...

I am also suspicious of the wheel trim - looks very wide on the outside. Pull off one of the trim rings and look at the wheel air valve - there should be a AO code stamped into the wheel at that location - which would match box 45 of the build sheet.Ok -- I pulled off one of the trim rings and couldn't find "AO" stamped anywhere. It should be on the wheel itself, correct? I seem to have "1 13 LZ" stamped on the wheels. Does that tell us anything?

Also, did you mean that the wheels themselves looked wrong? Or just the trim rings? I wasn't sure what you meant exactly...

Thanks!

- John...

Originally posted by Randy Boat:
If you want to buy a new grill,GM still offers them.Go down to your local chevy dealer and he will get you one.Less then the aftermarket ones.It comes all silver,so you will have to paint it the correct black and the car color. I will also need to buy trim, right? Can I get that from GM also? Or just the grille itself?

Besides that, I'll need to add the "Chevelle" emblem -- and transfer over the SS emblem from the one I have, correct? Or do they come with the "Chevelle" and/or "SS" emblems from GM?

- John...

I believe the LZ wheels are the olds SSI wheels, same as the SS wheel but they have chrome spokes. I have a couple sets of these. How is this car documented? What dash is in it? Three round guages or one long horizontal speedo?

Originally posted by drptop70ss:
I believe the LZ wheels are the olds SSI wheels, same as the SS wheel but they have chrome spokes.Hmmm... Interesting. Seems everything on this car is "close, but not quite..."

How is this car documentedI have the build sheet which shows the SS 396 package option. The VIN on the build sheet matches the VIN on the plate above the dash (in the normal plate). It doesn't look replaced or anything... Although, I guess it is possible. I doubt that the guy I bought it from would have faked it -- but it is always possible that whoever he bought it from had.

Then again, he bought it cheap ($5000) from the previous owner -- in bad shape. He then put about $5000 into it (including $2000 for a new paint job). He sold it to me for $10000.

What dash is in it? Three round guages or one long horizontal speedo?The three gauges -- they seem accurate: tach on the left, speedo in the middle, clock on the right.

Nothing seems obviously can't-be-SS-originally. It is just that lots has been replaced along the way...

Also, the rear axle is a 10-bolt -- and Dan's guide to SS says that there were no 10-bolt SS 1970s. So, again, it's wrong -- but could have been replaced, of course... Hmmm...

- Jonh...

I'm not POSITIVE, but from 66 on ALL SS cars got a 12 bolt. The only time you could get an SS w/ a 10 bolt was in 64, and 65, when the SS option was just a trim package, and could be gotten w/ any motor (even a 6 cyl), and any style(2 door, or wagon). Odds are someone replaced your rear end somewhere along the line.

Originally posted by RacnJsn95:
I'm not POSITIVE, but from 66 on ALL SS cars got a 12 bolt. The only time you could get an SS w/ a 10 bolt was in 64, and 65, when the SS option was just a trim package, and could be gotten w/ any motor (even a 6 cyl), and any style(2 door, or wagon). Odds are someone replaced your rear end somewhere along the line. Um, yes, that's what I said. smile.gif By "So, again, it's wrong", I was saying that our rear axle is wrong for an SS -- that it had been replaced. I agree.

- John...

Check box 29 on your build sheet. There should be a 2 letter code for the rear axle. It determines the ratio. Crawl under your car and look for the stampings in the rear end housing, should be on the passenger side of the rear end. The two letter code should be preceded with a C. Also the stampings in the housing will determine the build date of the rear end. Also are the lower control arms boxed? Is there a sway bar under the rear end? If you need help decifering the codes let us know. Great book for casting numbers is Chevrolet by the Numbers by Alan Colvin.

Any chance you could post a photo of the build sheet, and list the cowl tag information also ?

Originally posted by Forrest:
Check box 29 on your build sheet.Unfortunately, the mice have box 29. :( See link to image in next post...

There should be a 2 letter code for the rear axle. It determines the ratio. Crawl under your car and look for the stampings in the rear end housing, should be on the passenger side of the rear end. The two letter code should be preceded with a C. Also the stampings in the housing will determine the build date of the rear end.I will hunt again for these soon. I tried to find them once, but couldn't get all the gunk and such off to get anything reasonable.

Also are the lower control arms boxed?Unfortunately, I don't know what a control arm is -- so I certainly don't know if it is boxed or not. smile.gif Tell me exactly what I should be looking at and I'd be happy to tell you what I see!

Is there a sway bar under the rear end?Again, not sure exactly what this is. If anyone has a pic of the underside and wants to point out what I should look for, I can tell you what I have or don't have...

Sorry for the ignorance there... It's mostly new to me...

Thanks!

- John...

Originally posted by Steve A:
Any chance you could post a photo of the build sheet, and list the cowl tag information also ? Ok -- just did a scan of the build sheet. You can see it here (75k image):

http://dcg.com/jgoggan/chevelle/Build-Sheet-01Sep2003.jpg

As for the cowl tag, I posted it a while back and had it decoded for me. The thread is here (http://www.chevelles.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=004709). The actual cowl tag info is:

70 13637 KAN240433 BDY
756 75 B PNT
11B 05953 L

Thanks!

- John...

Trailing arms or rear control arms. Open is a U-channel, boxed is where another piece has been added to close the arm, making a "box".
http://www.superchevy-web.com/tech/0306sc_chevelle02/

Ok -- I think I have open control bars then -- and, likely, no rear sway bar. So, yet another thing to make me think this isn't an original SS... Grrr...

Plus, I just pulled off the dash pad -- and it is clearly stamped "1972" underneath. So, maybe the entire dash has been replaced?? It does have the proper SS gauges...

It just seemed so unlikely that someone would fake the VIN tag in this instance. But, I guess you never know... In any case, I've taken some more pictures -- you can check them out here:

http://dcg.com/jgoggan/chevelle/01Sep2003/

There are three pics of the VIN tag under the windshield behind the dash. Also, a pic of what I believe is the control arm -- so someone can confirm that I'm looking at the right thing (and that it is U, not boxed).

Can anyone tell anything obvious from the VIN tag (i.e. it isn't connected properly)? It appears to be held on by two rivets. Is that normal? Please fill me in if anyone sees anything in those pics...

Thanks much.

- John...

well as far as the dash..do the guages have white numbers or a pale green? Light up blue or green at night? It is possible this car is an SS, but got majorly stripped at one time.

This is a picture of the pieces that weld along the bottom of the arms. The "humps" are where the bolts go through the arm. The arm has a couple of holes in it for the sway arm bolts.
http://www.oldcarnetwork.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RCAI001

Originally posted by drptop70ss:
well as far as the dash..do the guages have white numbers or a pale green?They all have pale green numbers -- except for the clock, which is white (must have been changed/replaced along the way). So -- is pale green good or bad? :confused:

Light up blue or green at night?Couldn't tell you -- none of my dash lights work yet (that's on my list of projects)...

It is possible this car is an SS, but got majorly stripped at one time.Agreed. Could very well be the case...

- John...

Originally posted by John_Muha:
This is a picture of the pieces that weld along the bottom of the arms. The "humps" are where the bolts go through the arm. The arm has a couple of holes in it for the sway arm bolts.Ok -- interesting. ONE of ours (on the driver's side) has one of those inserts welded on. The other side does not. So, I seem to have one of each... :(

- John...

The VIN plate and rivets look original and untouched. I'd guess that the car is an original SS, but as has been mentioned, it lost a few of it's original parts in the last 33 years.

Indeed -- or, more accurately, "ALL" of its original parts. heh...

- John...

Originally posted by drptop70ss:
well as far as the dash..do the guages have white numbers or a pale green? Light up blue or green at night? It is possible this car is an SS, but got majorly stripped at one time. So -- I never did learn whether or not a real 70 SS should have the pale green or white numbers on the gauges... Which is "proper"?

- John...

70 Chevelles have the green numbers

Well, good, at least that part is correct on our car. smile.gif

Thanks.

- John...

Just an FYI,I have an original,Baltimore built ex-LS6 car (have buildsheet) When I bought it,it had the correct tach/gauges (6500 RPM redline)the original CY code TH400 trans,and the correct LS6 distributor,but it had a 1972 402 big block,and a 1966 GTO 10 bolt 3.23 posi and no boxed arms or rear swaybar (has a 12 bolt,and the correct boxed arms/swaybar and nice 454 now) I used to be amazed at what these cars went thru,but after owning more old GM's than I care to mention,I'm not suprised anymore about the neglect,abuse,or shody repairs done over the years to these cars.In fact,some of it is downright humorous,and/or sad,but at least there still more than enough of these car around to have fun with and work with.

So, just so I am clear... Can I just paint the grille that I have (see photo in first post) and therefore have it be "proper" for the SS? Or do I need to actually buy a different one because it is physically different?

I was thinking just paint, but then several people in the thread talked about getting a new one and such. I mean, even if I bought a new one from GM, as suggested, I'd still have to paint it black, correct? So, would it be any different than what I have already?

Thanks...

- John...

You can use the one you have. It looks like some of the chrome that should be attached to the grill is missing, that may be why some people left you with the impression that you should buy a new grill. I don't think that you would get those pieces with a new grill though.

The grille you have will work fine. You need to paint the center grille sections black. Then paint the center horizontal bar and the side parts that are attached to that center bar the body color. Then install the chevelle emblem in the lower left hand corner, and it also looks to me like maybe your "SS" emblem is upside down. Also if you are missing any of the chrome you will need to find that at a salvage yard. It is all the same chrome from any 70' model. You will not get this chrome with the grille if you buy a new one from any supplier. If you click on the link below you can see soem pictures of the grille off my 70' SS and they will show you what I mean.
Mat's Chevelle exterior pictures (http://www.angelfire.com/amiga/elliboom/page2.html)

Originally posted by ELLI:
The grille you have will work fine. You need to paint the center grille sections black. Then paint the center horizontal bar and the side parts that are attached to that center bar the body color.Ok -- sounds good. I'll have to decide if I like the center bar as red or black. There appears to be at least some original 1970 SS cars that have a black center bar from the factory...

Then install the chevelle emblem in the lower left hand corner,Does it just screw on and off? I've got one now (it's actually there in that picture, but the angle makes it almost invisible -- but, it really is on there!) It's in the lower-right if you are looking at it from the front (so, the driver's side) -- that is the correct position, right?

and it also looks to me like maybe your "SS" emblem is upside down.I believe that is caused by the angle of the photo again. When I first saw the photo, I thought the same thing -- but when I get out and look at it, it seems correct again. heh.

Thanks for the help! Now I just need to paint it... Um, any help/suggestions on what paint to buy and how to apply it? As with most things related to this car, I'm new to painting such things too. :D

- John...

John with the build sheet you have your car looks to be an SS from the factory. It confirms the bumper guards, your M-21, and an F-41 rear suspension. It also lists your rear gears as 3.31:1 Do you still have the stock AM radio for the car? Good luck and enjoy.

Yes, I still have the AM radio. The preset buttons don't work, but I believe the radio itself does (although, I haven't tested it myself as of yet).

I do agree it is an original SS. I was simply a little disappointed that much more has been replaced than the seller let on...

Also, even though the build sheet says I have the 3.31 ratio -- I realized recently that the rear axle has been replaced since it is a 10-bolt instead of a 12-bolt. Therefore, I really have no idea currently what is back there...

I'll hopefully be able to get some numbers off of it next week.

Thanks for the reply!

- John...

Originally posted by jgoggan:
Thanks for the help! Now I just need to paint it [my grille]... Um, any help/suggestions on what paint to buy and how to apply it? As with most things related to this car, I'm new to painting such things too. :D Anyone? Some local guy suggested just buying a shake-can of flat black spray paint to paint the grille. Is that a good way to do it? Or do I need to go through more than that to make it look proper?

For now, I'm just going to paint the whole thing black. I'll worry about doing the center bar car-color later if I decide to go that way. Again, I've seen at least one original red '70 SS where the entire grille was black from the factory...

- John...