It is a 454 BBC with a voodoo hydraulic cam. Everything is broke in. Actually it has a few years on it. I figure the bearings are probably getting a little worn by now. I started off using valvaline racing 20w50. Then I was told that I should not use it because it was to thick. This car is 70% strip 30% street. So i changed to valvaline 10w40. But now after the comp cams bulletin on cam break in and Rotella, I dont know what to use. It has a high volume oil pump. I am thinking of going back to 20w50, but I was wondering what would be the consensus:

valvoline 20w50
valvaline racing 20w50
Rotella 15W40
something else

Please help

I Use Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic 15/50. My father, and everyone else I know swears by it. It kept my old solid slant 6 in perfect condition for over 200k Miles.

Just broke in a new Voodoo cam yesterday...crankcase full of Rotella and topped off with a pint of EOS. :thumbsup:
Sweet!

Using mobil 10w-30 fully synthetic. Get it at costco for 28 bucks a case (6 bottles)

My son runs a 540 with a 125 shot of nitrous,couple times a year to the strip, most on the street, he runs 20 50 valvoline all the time, like you used to, engine is about six years old, no problems of any kind.
I wouldn't go under 20 weight, gives your bearings a little more cushion then 10 weight. He doesn't baby it either.

Rob

I Use Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic 15/50. My father, and everyone else I know swears by it. It kept my old solid slant 6 in perfect condition for over 200k Miles.

Same here

We have been using the Brad Penn which is the old green Kendall oil http://www.amref.com/ oil to break our engines in on hte dyno as there oil is the only oil made in the U.S. and is marketed as racing oil as the zinc and phosephate has not been lowered like the Mibile one products has done in the last year or two.

If does not say racing oil on it the zinc and phosephate have been lowered.

Once the engines have been broke in we have our customers go to the 20/50 Amsoil RACING OIL and have been doing this proceedure for over 20 years now with no problems.

As an engine builder who builds many racing engines and can base my findings on more then just one or 2 engines.

I've been using Valvoline 20w-50 Racing oil for over 20 years now. Great stuff! :thumbsup:

I've been using Valvoline 20w-50 Racing oil for over 20 years now. Great stuff! :thumbsup:


The last bottle of Valvoline I saw said just 20/50 a didn't say racing oil on it do to the lower zinc and Phosephate

Valoline makes 2 types of 20/50,one std and the other a racing version with the zinc/anti friction additives but not many stores handle the racing version which Valvoline still makes according to their website.

I would stick with the 20/50 or go with shell rotella-t or chevron delo both 15-40 wt for Diesels with zinc & anti friction aqdditives that were removed from most if not all of todays modern std gasoline motor oils. Maybe people are telling you the 20-50 is too heavy from a perf standpoint because it does steal a few more hp away from the motor to pump it when compaired to a 10-30 so from that angle they are correct. But if your running the 20-50 in warm weather above lets say 50 deg F you should be fine.

I contacted shell (through their website) to ask the oil engineer's if they would recommed the 15-40 rotella-t oil to better protect the cams & lifters in the muscle car engines of the 60's & 70's and they said it would be a great choice for that application,esp for high perf BBC . They recommend it due to the oils great shear strength,ability to hold viscosity under extreem loads/temps,and anti friction additives to protect the cam/lifters because the oil was designed for big rigs pulling heavy loads under extreen conditions and also for other diesels like in huge Catepiller buldozers too. This oil can be bought in Walmart,Auto Zone in 1 gal contasiners

scott

Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS N/E

The last bottle of Valvoline I saw said just 20/50 a didn't say racing oil on it do to the lower zinc and Phosephate


Carl,

If you don't know the differance between these two oils, then why are you talking smack? Valvoline Racing VR1 oil is good oil. Maybe you should take some time and educate yourself, you do NOT seem to know what your talking about. :clonk:

Carl,

If you don't know the differance between these two oils, then why are you talking smack? Valvoline Racing VR1 oil is good oil. Maybe you should take some time and educate yourself, you do NOT seem to know what your talking about. :clonk:

I have seen VR1 in both a bottles that said racing oil and the other just said VR1 and did not say racing oil on it, As both bottles was brought into my shop last summer by another engine builder asking what the differance was.

So I think I know what I am talking about (NOW DO YOU NOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT OR ARE YOU BLOWING SMOKE UP MY ASS)

NOW EDUCATE YOURSELF

So the qeustion regarding Rotella:: Do you still use it as an everyday oil after break in?

I've used Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec, WalMart synthetic, Rotella and even mixed WM synthetic with Rotella.

LUCAS 20/50 Race oil with 1 qt Lucas Oil Stabilizer

Yes,you can definately use the shell rotella after cam breakin but i would not use it in a car with a catalytic covert as it could shorten it's life a little.This is due to the friction additives in the shell rotella mucking up the material inside the cat reducing its operational lifespan.

scott

TORCO TR-1 10W40 racing conventional oil blend - valvetrain looks like new with stout solid roller on street .

I buy it by the 5 gal pail and just decant it - 6L at a time. I use PF35L AC Delco filters. (bought a case a few years back).

Google "bob is the oil guy" and read up on oils and their properties - read through the virgin oil analysis section to find out what the real contents of many over-the-counter oils are. One small caution - only about 8 people over there know - and 300 or so simply repeat. Try to stick to the facts and take some of the analysis with a grain of salt.

MAT

Amsoil or Mobil 1. I use Amsoil now. On new vehicles I use dino oil for the first 6k to let them break in. Then switch to Amsoil in what ever weight the mfg recommends. I had 200k on a straight 6 Jeep and the motor was still like brand new (no oil consumption) when we sold it. On my SS396 I use Amsoil racing 20W50. I use synthetics in the rear and manual trans also. On new vehicle automatics, I use the factory trans fluid. The are specially formulated with friction modifiers for each specific transmission. Just my preference.

I use Royal Purple synthetic in all my cars and trucks. 20w50 in the Chevelles and 10w40 in the dually and Yukon.

I was just going to ask about the Royal purple, I see that not too many people are a fan of it? Why not? I have heard it is superior to most. I have been useing Mobil-1 10w30 fully synthetic, but have been thinking of switching over to royal purple synthetic for the chevelle and the 383 in my truck.


Thanks,
Joe Phillips

If you guys have normal bearing clearances, I'm not sure why you are all using 20W-50. Too thick, IMO, ESPECIALLY with a HV pump. 15W-40 HD oil has plenty of good additives, and should be fine for all applications. I wouldn't run anything more than 10W-30 with a high volume pump. Add some EOS if you are worried about the zinc.

Fact is, API SM does include a valvetrain wear test, and it is a little more strict than prior testing. I don't think the lack of zinc is all bad, seeing as they have added Moly and other adds to replace tha lost zinc.

Myself, I use 15W-40 Pennzoil or Delo in my "summer car" ('65 Nova 327). Anything driven in 30 deg temps or below gets 10W-30/5W-30.

Just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions! ;)

I was just going to ask about the Royal purple, I see that not too many people are a fan of it? Why not? I have heard it is superior to most. I have been useing Mobil-1 10w30 fully synthetic, but have been thinking of switching over to royal purple synthetic for the chevelle and the 383 in my truck.


Thanks,
Joe Phillips


Joe, I also use Royal Purple (15-40) and have found out it's a very good but pricey oil.
Out of 4 vehicles 3 of them are running (RP) and the getting around town car (Saturn) gets Mobile 1 (10-30).

Jim

Really don't know how the average person could quantify whether a certain oil is superior to another.

I think people read about stuff, adopt it, and if it is expensive stick by it anyway so as not to admit (to themselves and others) that perhaps the purchase wasn't necessary???

I mean, I have a Tempo with 284,000 miles on it, and all it ever got was regular ol' Halvoline, 5W-30 in winter and 10W-30 in summer.

What more could I want?

I know this about Royal Purple, when setting the valves on my Chevelle if I get oil on the tools they must be washed with solvent or they are too slippery to use. Scientific no, but that is different then any other oil that I have used. And the only reason I can justify buying this premium oil is, it is not change as frequently as conventional oil. Same thing goes for my daily drivers they don't get oil changes until 6000 miles. I buy the Royal Purple OEM series oil for $4.99 @ quart. Tom

My stuff gets oil changes approx every 6000 miles too. Basically, once in spring and once in fall. Halvoline on sale and the cheapest filters I can get my hands on. So far (25 years of motoring) that has worked out well.

That clenches it for me too! Love that Chevron oil at $0.89 a qt at the register with $4.80 mail=in rebate on a case of 12, and those Purolator-with-another-name-on-the-can-and box filters, (especially when they're on sale). Can't recall ever seeing or hearing about an engine failure attributed to the oil unless manufacturers recommendations were ignored.
My $0.02
My $0.02

Theclencher

When you're out there driving with that little picaso ( tempo ) you have, do you have to watch out for traffic coming up behind you at a fairly rapid speed.

I worked nights for several years, it was about 25 miles to work, 3 of us car pooled.

Anyway were going to work and this guy is driving about 40 or a little over. He's holding up traffic.

Over the next two week period, he is out there quite a bit, same thing, holding up traffic.

The old guy riding with us, says, he's gonna get a trunk job one of these days.

The very next day, traffic is backed up again, people start passing and we figured what the holdup was, yeah, it was him, still driving 40, but this time his trunk was drove in a couple feet, almost blocked off the back window.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif
You and your tempo made me remember this.

Rob

Heh heh, nope, the only time I drive UNDER the speed limit is when I first pull out onto the street in front of my house with a cold engine. I warm it up by driving conservatively for the first mile instead of sitting there idling in the driveway. After that... well, let's just say there's no NEED for anybody to pass me!

I'm pretty sure the ol' Tempo is good for 100 mph but I can't be certain because of that stupid 85 mph speedo.

I do recall an incident where I got my doors blown off... but then about 7 miles later, I passed them up as they were busy having a discussion with the friendly local trooper... ;)

I'm not familiar with "Picaso"- explain?

Thanks.

I (at machinist recommendation) ran Vavoline straight 30w (winter) and straight 40w (summer) never had a problem and motor looked very clean when torn down (bearings too) before install into my Camaro.

I just went to Mobil 1.

I was on a very good site that compared ,and explained the good and bad of leading oils-- valvaline had the most zink in it-and was rated with one of the lowest flash points--something like 537 degrees- something like that-I may have the #wrong-but it was looooow!! for those who dont know,flashpoint is the temp when the stuff will light up--or ,catch fire!!! valvaline was rated towards the bottem of the list--beaten by mobil-one-red line-royal purple-pennzoil-quakerstate-castrol--and so on---

mobil-one synth was rated # 1-valvaline was rated somewhere like 7th of ten leading oils---

I dont have the site saved-but just search=====automobile oil ratings---
gotta try to find it again--would be a good site to share with team members--it will direct you to the oil you would want to use for your application!!!

I have a freind working in the gas and oil field and exxon/mobil is the most quality oriented of the oil companys,from what he has seen anyway!

I use mobile one 15/50 synth------67rat bobh

The clencher, I spelled Picaso, instead of Picasso.

He was a painter and sculptor in France 1881 - 1973.

Sometimes I will use Picasso to describe my car project as well, like theres nothing to good for this little Picasso.

You mentioned driving slow to warm your car up, I'm 64 and on I've been know to hold a few people up, it's a thing with some old guys.

It's nice to see you have a good sense of humor, you have a good one, keep that tempo humming.http://www.chevelles.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Oil topics/threads always come down to what someone thinks is beter. Now all of those running synthetic oils, Do you have a roller or flat tappet cam? Two years ago I sat down and called every cam company I could think of (crower, comp, crane, lunati, isky, etc...) every one of them said "we do not recommend running synthetic oil with flat tappet cams". Since then I don't run synthetic oils in my flat tappet engines. I do run Mobil one in my truck (roller cam).

Valvoline Racing oil in the grey bottle does have zinc. This is why I run it in my hot rod. Flat tappet cams need zinc. There is more to oil than being slippery, it also needs to cushion, this is where the zinc comes into play.

I would like to know if anyone has gotten, the "OK" from a cam company to run synthetic with a flat tappet cam?

I use Royal Purple 20w50 Synthetic Racing Formula in my 572 Big Block

I run the val-20/50 racing oil.Used it in my last two cars.They say you gain a little more hp with 10w-30 but I like seeing the oil psi up there.

Thanks rubadub, she's got a lot of miles under her belt ('84 model, and I put collector plates on too! Could it be the world's first Tempo with collector plates???) but I intend to keep it on the road for some time yet!

In my SBC 406,(in sig), HYDRAULIC ROLLER, on it's 4th year, and has always used 0W-30 synthetic motor oil either,
Castrol syntec, or
Esso.
This engine still runs like day one and

Used oil analysis sent in reports virtually no wear metals what so ever.

One thing, this engine runs a 160 degree thermostat (and run's on the thermostat) so I know the oil doesn't get very warm, probably never over 180 degrees so it's not going to thin out.........and at 180 its probably just as thick as a 20w-50 at lets say 220 degrees.

I use valvoline 20/50 in my nitrous motors 10/40 in my stock motors and synthetic in my turbo motor. I have found that castrol will acutually foam up. Synthetic does not like nitrous bad news with that. Sean

Tempo's Rule! I have owned many! I just sold my 94 4dr 3.0 V-6! Still have my 91! Change the oil 3K Let it eat! I use anybrand 10-40! 20-50-Valvoline racing is good for my racer!

:thumbsup:

what should you use for break in compared to after break in? should the weight be lower for break in? Should you wait too use synthetic until after break in to help the ring seat? Getting a new motor this summer.

I switched to Mobil 1 Truck and SUV, 10w-40 full synthetic after the first couple of oil changes. Changed to it, after reading posts here on TC.

My neighbor is an AMSOIL dealer. He gives me a free case for the Chevelle every year :thumbsup:

Depends on the Climate your in.....If you're in Minnesota go with a 5W-30 or 5W-40, If you're in a climate where you see sustained weeks of 100 degrees +, then go to 10W-40 or perhaps 15W-40. 20W-50 is too thick, and in cooler climates it would starve your engine of lubrication on cold starts until the pump could grab it and get it out of the pan and upstairs....ouch!

valvoline 10w-30 or 10w-40

i have used valvoline 10-30 engine breakin and 10-40 afterwards for 20 years never had a motor blow or go bad, never had one burst into flames,have had a 383 for 11 years now with 10-40 valvoline in it run it hard every chance i get and no problems yet!!! thought about trying the 20-50 but the cold start up and thick oil worried me so never did! just my 2 cents

This has been the most interesting subject I've read in a long time. Many opinions are offered and I feel that you can go with just about any one of them. I'm no expert but I've been around a little and have tried various oils.
Quite frankly I haven't noticed any difference. I finally settled on Pennzoil
Racing 20/50 but not because I know if it's the best. Valvoline is low on my my list for various reasons but I really never have had any problems with it.

As for Picasso? He was a Spaniard, not a Frenchman, who lived in Spain until
the early 30's and moved to France just prior to the Spanish Civil War.
He was the most renowned painter of the 20th Century, and hardly a sculptor.

Websters dictionary (copyright 1986)

picaso, 1881=1973 sp. painter & sculptor in france.

Rob

Can I ask why in the world a group of guys who seem to have a decent head on their shoulders all insist on running oil that is way to heavy for a street car and serves absolutely no purpose other than to increase the wear on the oil pump, pump drive, cam and distributor as well as increase emissions, decrease fuel economy and cost HP (I would think if nothing else at least the last part of that would be some cause for concern). The guys who really make me question their level of common sense are the ones claiming 15-40 in daily driver late models with CLEARLY labeled markings under the hood recommending 10W-30 and even 5W-30 in some instances, what are you guys thinking?

Dennis,

The isuue with oil runs much deeper than mere viscosity. The oil stock and complimenting additives package is the life blood of a high performance engine and must be considered when choosing what type to use.

The type of oil used by Hot Rodders is usually a matter of need, exposure or by experiance. If you know what oils are made of then an educated choice can be made. Most people choose oil brands and type by what good their old Dad used or by advertising. The advertising thing is what mucks up the whole equation. Just because Hot Rod TV or Hot Rod Magazine (sorry needed an example) uses a certain type, does not mean that is the best choice. Most often, it was what they were paid to use.

Sometimes the best way to find what oil to use is to hang around racing teams or at race tracks and check what the successful guys are using. Differant type engines require differant oils, and yes, newer vehicles need 5w-30 and such to run properly.

Don't knock the deisel oils with 15w-40 ratings. Most big trucks go over one million miles before needing an overhaul. That is very impressive! The oil packages used by truckers demand quality that protects the power plant.

I can tell you that I have torn down many engines that were not very well lubricated which meant an early death. There seems to be alot of hype and a shread of truth in world today!

Hmmmmm...

my point exactlly Dennis, one question a lil off topic but has any one else noticed with pennsoil the thick guncky black build up after time?? a friend of mine only uses penn. and i usually only use valv. tore down a motor of his and one of mine with about 5000 miles diff. both 350 chevys and he had massive black crap in oil pan and valve covers etc.... just wonderin if this was a normal thing with penn. or an isolated issue??? thanx

I've pored over all these threads and have really enjoyed being educated on this subject by the various views. In my opinion this is the best website to glean good honest data, and I wanted to add a little further in agreement with some of the views about viscosity. I run 20-50 because of
the favorable California weather and the lower viscosity oils are also more prevalent with the new cars that are now built with tighter clearances.
I was also surprised to see that Valvoline came out on top in the poll but as I
had mentioned before I never had any problems with it. I gravitated toward
using Pennzoil racing oil because it was recommended by one of the Comp Cam guys as one of the better break-in oils to use but I am now more intrigued by Valvoline's high zinc content. Back in the old days, I tried a couple of odd brands named Cling, and Moly. After doing some machine shop testing they appeared to be superior to the available oils at the time and we
used them in our race cars with much success. I've never seen or heard of them since.
I went to an old Webster's Collegiate dictionary and found the same re:
Pablo Picasso. I was a little surprised and it shows how information is only as good as it's source. Webster's should have given a better definition. I admit
and should have noted that he did sculpt enough to be considered one but all his life he was foremost a painter.

Chris, true that oil designed for diesel use typically has a better additive package BUT it was designed for diesel use, not conventional engine use. I have 21 over the road tractors and another couple hundred pieces of heavy equipment all using either CAT, Cummins, or Detroit power plants in our fleet so I am fully aware of the type of protection Delo provides Also be very careful in "using what race teams use", we use Royal Purple 70 weight in our race car...I would never recommend that for any street car ever. What race teams use is designed for a totally different type of engine use and totally different type of engine build. Race engine run very loose and require that kind of protection to stay together, street engines are much tighter (if they are not the builder did a poor job) and running that much viscosity is a waste of energy.

Dennis,

I agree with what you are saying about thick viscosity oils. The straight weight 50, 60 and 70 oils are way to thick for a street car. I also beleive that the thinner oils like 0W-15 and 5W-30 oils likewise are too thin.

Not all race cars use the thicker oils, but yes some/alot do. Most of the name brand oils that make a racing blend are pretty good due to the superior additives package.

The problem lies with the fact that the EPA has mandated the removal of all metals from street driven oils. The race and deisel oils are exempt from the new requirement. If running flat tappet cams in any engine it is critical to run the proper additives package to avoid premature cam/lifter fialure.

FYI, Comp Cams is now recommending use of Rotella-T oil for their flat tappet cams for this very reason.

Good discussion. :D

If you want some additional background (not sponsored by any oil company), check out the motor oil bible (http://www.motoroilbible.com/).

FWIW, we use Amsoil in the racecar, the family cars, the tow truck, the Harley and the lawn tractor.

it was mentioned in one of the earlier post about the new epa rules changing the additives for the oil. how new are these rules? thanks

Mobil 1 Used it with great results

lurk,

2005/2006 time frame!

We have been using the Brad Penn which is the old green Kendall oil http://www.amref.com/ oil to break our engines in on hte dyno as there oil is the only oil made in the U.S. and is marketed as racing oil as the zinc and phosephate has not been lowered like the Mibile one products has done in the last year or two.

If does not say racing oil on it the zinc and phosephate have been lowered.

Once the engines have been broke in we have our customers go to the 20/50 Amsoil RACING OIL and have been doing this proceedure for over 20 years now with no problems.

As an engine builder who builds many racing engines and can base my findings on more then just one or 2 engines.The last two dyno pulls we did had the Brad Penn oil in it.We have tried them all.The Brad Penn oil made 6 hp more on our 735 hp USMTS engine than any other oil did.

This is a very good post, very interesting data and opinions.

So is rotella-T good only at breakin time or to be used all the time in gas engines for the metal content protection.

What is comp recomending, ONLY at breakin or ALL the time ?

Been using Delo 400 and Rotella 15-40 for 30 yrs. in all my vehicles gas or diesel. Use it in my play toys and circle track engines I used to build. Just bomber and street stock on 1/4-1/3 tracks never a bearing problem. Never lost a cam in 30+yrs either. I have always used it even on break in. Just won't try anything else.
Regards, Jeff

Mobil 1 Used it with great results

You may want to check with Mobil 1 as they have changed the formular in the last year or so do to the goverment mandating them to lower there zinc and phosphate level which is the anti wear package in the oil.

Don't find out the hard way like some other shops I deal with did.

The rule of thumb if it doesn't say racing oil bottle believe me the zinc and phosphate have been lowered other then the desiel oils mentioned.

The old green Kendall oil which has been around for years is probably the better oil out there (BRAD PENN)

For more information than you can imagine on oil check out:

www.bobistheoilguy.com

There is a whole section of virgin oil analysis that will give you a good idea of the contents of the various oils.

I'm just about to find out how the Pennzoil 15-40 fleet has been treating the high steppin' 427 as the mill comes out for an oil pan redo. I assume Rotella is the same config.

Do they still sell "URSA" oil for diesels??

Stuff smelled like 90wt gear lube years ago..

pdq67

My 93 Suburban has 239K miles on it. Tows my boat on weekends and is my Daily driver. My last Suburban I sold with 375K miles on it. Neither had rebuilds but the 375K truck had a cam/lifter/ timing chain at 300K. On both of these trucks I typically used 10/30 for first 100K; then went to 15/40 for 100-200K; and 20/50 for past 200k figuring some wear and increased clearances could use thicker oils. I never was loyal to any specific brand and none of them were synthetic. What I did do is once I hit 100K I started changind the oil more fequently and my truck now with 239K, I change it every 2500 miles. I would think on any engine changing oil more frequently and /or on time is what matters more so than brand....but this is JMO.

The question I have is this: Lots of synthetic companies suggest you can go longer between changes than 3000 miles; some even saying 5000 and 7500 etc. Amsoil back about 20 years ago when I was a motorcycle dealership parts manager was trying to sell me on Amsoil.... and how his new van outside had 29k miles on the oil in it! Am I off for thinking this is insane?!!!!! Doesnt fuel to some small degree blow by the rings and enter the oil, diluting it and decreasing is protective lubricating ability? My biggest fear with oil isnt brand or even viscosity..,,,my biggest fear would be not changing on time or frequent enough...am I off for thining this way?

My Chevelle gets the oil changed about every 500 - 1000 miles, which works out to about once a year. I drive hard! I use Valvoline 20W-50 Racing oil and it treats me right. I can't see paying $7 a quart for something I don't leave in the crank case very long. As far I know, the major cam companies don't like synthetic oil used with flat tappet cams, it is okay with rollers though.

I have heard the stories about Amsoil too. I had a customer that burned up an engine with Amsoil in the crank case after approx 10,000 miles on his 25,000 mile oil. I would never run oil in anything that long. Engines cost too much for me to experiment with unknowns!

I use Mobil 1 5W-30 in my wifes car and I change it every 4000 - 5000 miles.

The Mobile one seems to stay up on the rockers longer...eliminating dry starts, THATS why I like synthetic Mobil one....I ran valvoline once in the velle...you could hear the oil run down like water after shutdown (with 10W40) . Every time I started it...youd hear the clater for a sec..until the oil pressure came up.....went away when I went to synthetic 15W50. correct me if im wrong...but doesnt most of the engine wear occur on start up???

Redline oil....

I use valvoline 20/50 in my nitrous motors 10/40 in my stock motors and synthetic in my turbo motor. I have found that castrol will acutually foam up. Synthetic does not like nitrous bad news with that. Sean

Whats the story with nitous and synthetic?
I've been using Castrol synthetic blend 20w50 from assembly on. The engine gets assmebled with the same oil I put in the pan. Oh yea and its a roller cam too.

Royal Purple 10w40

1 gallon of Rotella and top it off with synthetic is my routine of late.

racing oil-51 royal purple 13.00 a quart!!!!!!!!! 20w-50 only the best for my baby.

I totally agree with the AMSOIL post.... who in the right mind would go 15-20K miles between oil changes?. I dont doubt they refine a decent oil but their claims are ridiculous.

I totally agree with the AMSOIL post.... who in the right mind would go 15-20K miles between oil changes?. I dont doubt they refine a decent oil but their claims are ridiculous.
Actually, I had a guy who worked as a contractor for me using his own car to make deliveries. He only used Mobil 1 & changed it every 20,000 miles & he had 3 cars that went over 400,000 miles without opening the engine for any reason.

UPDATE ON THE NEW REFORMULATED SHELL ROTELLA T 15W-40/DIESEL OIL FOR 2007 FROM SHELL A OIL ENGINEER

Here is the ans i got from shell oil engineer when i asked if the newly reformulated rotella t 15w-40 still had enough anti wear ZDDP/Zinc in it to safely/properly protect the flat tappet hyd/solid lifter cams in our older SBC/BBC motors.

Dear Scott,

Zinc levels are being lowered on almost all engine oils, but the heavy duty diesel engine oils, such as the Rotella T, will continue to have higher levels than the passenger car/gasoline engine oils. The Rotella T 15W-40 meets API SL, SJ, SH and all previous specifications for gasoline engines. Rotella T 15W-40 is recommended for and used in many mixed fleet applications. It does have a higher antiwear level to protect the heavy duty diesel engines and should give you very good performance in this regard.

Thank you for your interest in our products! If you have any further questions, please call us at 800 231 6950.

Sincerely,
MaryCarol Boemmel
Lubrication Engineer

Thanks for that update, Scott. That is just the answer I wanted to hear! Rotella T, it will continue to be!

Thanks for that update, Scott. That is just the answer I wanted to hear! Rotella T, it will continue to be!
Liked the story on your car in CW Duke!
Dan

Yes,you can definately use the shell rotella after cam breakin but i would not use it in a car with a catalytic covert as it could shorten it's life a little.This is due to the friction additives in the shell rotella mucking up the material inside the cat reducing its operational lifespan.

scott

So how did GM and all the others manage to warranty a converter for 50K miles in the days before they gutted the high-pressure additive package? Yeah, if your engine is an oil-burning pig, I bet the additives could cause some problems. If, on the other hand, you don't burn much oil--how do the evil additives get into the converter?

Just for the record: I use synthetic (Mobil 1) in every engine I care about, and Rotella 15-40 in my clapped-out boat engine (10-qt pan), '93 Lumina with a rear-main leak, and my motorcycle which has a wet clutch. I understand that there are better oils than Mobil 1, but M1 seems to be a good match of cost/benefit for me.

Shurkey,the oil eng's at Shell & Cheron told me the ZDDP anti valvetrain wear additives would clog the cat's,it was not me comming up with that.

I guess over time some of the additives get by the rings even when a motor doesnt use much oil and cloigs the cat,but i really dont know.

The Mobil one you use is a great syn oil but its not good for inital startup of new/rblt motors because its too slick and hampers ring breakin according to my machiest and other people in the know on this site too.

I have also read that some cam mfg's state not to use syn oil for cam breakin ,why i dint know as i would think a syn oil like Mobil 1 would be fine for just a new cam/lifter breakin with no new rings to breakin.

I think another reason others dont use it on their older design muscle car motors may be because syn oil is more prone to leaks vs std motor oil and its 2x-3x the price on avg of std oil depending on brand of syn. 5qts rotella 15w-40 is approx $11.00 & 5 qts of Mobil-1 is like maybe $20-$25.

But think the use of a good quality syn in the newer cars/motors designed for it is a great thing and can significantly extend the life of a motor under the right conditions.

I use Castrols syn blend in my 98 Maxima that has a 100k on it,doesnt use any oil inbetween 3k mile oil changes ,gets 25 mpg city/31mpg on open road,and motor is very clean.

But,i also had an 87 nissan sentra daily driver yr's back that i bought used with 50k on it and drove unitll 200k doing 3k mile oil changes with std castrol motor oil.

Even at 200k miles the motor still ran great & never used any oil in between 3k mile oil changes,motor was very clean inside and it still got 30mpg using std castol motor oil,not syn.

It seems from what you said you kind of look at the Shell rotella T 15w-40 as beater/junk oil and something thats only good for junk and thats really not the case unless i got the wrong impression for your post.

I have read on this site from a couple people that own 18 wheel Deisel rigs and run it in a lot of farm equipment that swear by the stuff getting 300-400k miles out of their motors in 18 wheelers using it pulling extreemly heavy loads with motors that have like 20:1 comp ratios putting extra loads on the bottom end too. That oil has to be very good to stand up to those cond and its desinged specifically to take the heavy abuse that std car motors dont generally see. I asked the shell oil engs if it would be a good choice for protecting the flat tappet cams in our muscle car motors due to its ZDDP & zinc anti wear pkg and they said it would be great for that because most of todays std motor oils dont have it anymore which is why many people use it.

Valvoline R1 Racing oil for off road use only is another good oil with plenty of the ZDDP/Zinc anti wear additives in it. This oil would be good for warm weather/summer esp use if your bearing clearances were too tight or the motor used & or leaked a little oil.

Scott

Just to add about using synthetic on break-in/first start-up. I called BS on it and filled my 445 SBC with 10-30 Mobil 1 prior to firing it on the dyno. Warmed the engine twice and made 6 pulls.

My machinest/dyno operator suggested that it wouldn't be making it's best power when it came off the dyno as the rings wouldn't be fully seated with the synthetic oil. He was right.

When I got the engine home I had 12-20% leakdown cold. After 1 trip to the track (2 passes) with 15W40 Delo 400 in the pan, leakdown had droped to <6% on all holes cold.

Proof enough for me. Don't need to do that experiment again ;)

Some one needs to compile all the info in here and make a chart, then it should be sticked at he top for all to see.

have been using Rotella for years with no problems.

So Rotella T 15-40 is the oil to use. because of it's level of ZDDP/Zinc anti wear additives in it. And i can get this oil at almost any store.

I got it at walmart in bulk. I got the pre 2007 barrels. the CI-4 not the CJ-4 the top of the buckets had dust on them, no one around here has any idea about oil. I LOVE TC

True story about oils: Back in the mid 70's when I was 17 I worked at a truck stop on the graveyard shift. One night a delivery of bulk oil showed up and the truck driver wheeled in 3-55 gallon barrels of oil. He wanted me to sign the receipt as being delivered so I looked the barrels over and discovered that we were supposed to get 1 each of three different brands but there were no markings on the drums that told me which was which. "Oh, you want stickers huh" he said and went back out to his truck and brought back the 3 different brand stickers. He just randomly slapped the stickers on the barrels, gave me a big smile and left. I was shocked! This was all the same oil. Since then I use about any brand on sale because I'm not really convinced that most of these don't come out of the same tank!

i believe that oil now-a-days is watched much more carefully than before, since the price per barrel is so rediculous. I'm sure all the oils are what they say they are.

Some one needs to compile all the info in here and make a chart

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=474179&an=0&page=0#Post474179

HTH

SCOTT,that a good chart which i already have but unfortunately its too old being done in 5/2005 over 2.5 yrs ago.

I say this because there has been changes in GOV/EPA REGS in the past couple yrs that has forced the oil companies to reduce or completely remove the ZDDP/Zinc pkg's from the most common pass car oils which was needed to properly protect the flat tappet cams in our 30-40 yr old musle car motors.

In 1/2007 NEW GOV/EPA REGS forced a further reduction in the ZDDP/Zinc pkg in the diesels 15w-40 oils which was one of the last conventional motor oils to still have ZDDP/Zinc it.

But i did contact Shell & Chevron and according to the oil eng's they said there was still a suffient level of ZDDP/Zinc to protect our flat tappet cams but i dont know if i treuly believe it or not without some realistic testing to prove it for sure.

Scott

SCOTT,that a good chart which i already have but unfortunately its too old being done in 5/2005 over 2.5 yrs ago.

I say this because there has been changes in GOV/EPA REGS in the past couple yrs that has forced the oil companies to reduce or completely remove the ZDDP/Zinc pkg's from the most common pass car oils which was needed to properly protect the flat tappet cams in our 30-40 yr old musle car motors.

In 1/2007 NEW GOV/EPA REGS forced a further reduction in the ZDDP/Zinc pkg in the diesels 15w-40 oils which was one of the last conventional motor oils to still have ZDDP/Zinc it.

But i did contact Shell & Chevron and according to the oil eng's they said there was still a suffient level of ZDDP/Zinc to protect our flat tappet cams but i dont know if i treuly believe it or not without some realistic testing to prove it for sure.

Scott
=

Hi Scott,

All true but my question when I am told something like "there is still sufficient levels" would be HOW MUCH IS THERE????

And,,, "HOW MUCH IS "SUFFICIENT"
Sufficient for what?
Who decides how much is sufficient & what testing is being done with flat tappet cams anymore?

I have been through so many BS answers & excuses from manufacturers in this industry that I tend to question everything I am told.
It is to the point that I rarely even bother to call most of them anymore, it is too damn frustrating..:mad:

SCOTT,that a good chart which i already have but unfortunately its too old being done in 5/2005 over 2.5 yrs ago.

I say this because there has been changes in GOV/EPA REGS in the past couple yrs that has forced the oil companies to reduce or completely remove the ZDDP/Zinc pkg's from the most common pass car oils which was needed to properly protect the flat tappet cams in our 30-40 yr old musle car motors.

In 1/2007 NEW GOV/EPA REGS forced a further reduction in the ZDDP/Zinc pkg in the diesels 15w-40 oils which was one of the last conventional motor oils to still have ZDDP/Zinc it.

But i did contact Shell & Chevron and according to the oil eng's they said there was still a suffient level of ZDDP/Zinc to protect our flat tappet cams but i dont know if i treuly believe it or not without some realistic testing to prove it for sure.

Scott

so the safest way to go is to buy a full race oil. produced by valvoline (race only) Royal Purlpe XRP Redline oil AMS oil "race" series.

No!!

Use whatever you want and add some EOS to it!!

And I'd even add about half of a half pint of "NEET" Soy Diesel too!!

Stuff has been proven to have esters in it that have great lubricity properties!! So good, it's probably going to be added to ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel to pick it's lubricity back up!!

pdq67

Royal Purple
Castrol Syntec
Mobil 1

I always use valvoline conventional racing oil which has .14% zinc content

I am currently using Dello 15-40

FWIW Advance Auto Parts, at least the local one here, still stocks Delo 400 15W40 in the "good" API CI-4+ classification. I stocked up today.

Did we ever come to a conclusion as to whether it's okay to use full synthetic oils with flat tappet camshafts?

I ask because I was planning on using Mobil 1 or Royal Purple in my 383.

FWIW Advance Auto Parts, at least the local one here, still stocks Delo 400 15W40 in the "good" API CI-4+ classification. I stocked up today.

Here to, thats what I use:yes:

Regardless, whether wanting to use a conventional or full synthetic oil, I would confirm the additive package, especially with a mech flat tappet cam.

BTW, I use 0W-30 XD-3 Esso full syn in mine, there is virtually no wear metals found when a used oil analysis is completed.

I've been watching/reading the various threads regarding what oil to use for flat tappet cams and which oil still has adequate amounts of zinc for some time now. I personally like Red Line Oil, so I emailed them to get their take on this question. Here's the response...

>Below are the results from the Red Line Oil web site Application Request Form.
>
>It was placed on 7/8/2007 2:25:56 AM.
>
> Application Request Form Information
>-----------------------------------------------
>Name : Herbert Lumpp
>Make : Chevy
>Model : Blazer
>Year : 1971
>Engine Type : 350
>Differential Size/Type : 4.10 w/ Tru Trac Transmission Type: Automatic
>Issues : Potential flat tappet cam wear.
>Recommendations : I've been hearing a lot about excessive flat tappet
>cam wear due to reduced levels of zinc in modern oils. Do any of your
>oils meet the minimum 0.12% level of ZDDP required for flat tappet cam
>protection?
>Thanks.

Herbert,

Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, our motor oils contain .12% zinc and more importantly .11% phosphorus, sufficient levels for good flat tappet cam shaft protection.

Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil


So now I feel better about using Red Line Oil. I know it's a bit pricey, but it's still cheaper than replacing cam and lifters.

I am going to use Rotella T, Canadian tire sells it for less than $14.00 a gallon and that's real cheap up here but an engine builder told me that on flat tappet engines he won't recomend synthetics because they are so slick that the lifters have a real tough time turning.

I don't know?:D

The autozone around here sells Rotella T in 30w and its only rated CG. Might be an option. unless they took out the zinc too but only rate it at CG. Also the Valvoline plus 15-40 is rated CJ/SL. Doesn't the SL rating allow more zinc?

I went to canadian tire last night looking for oil.What I found is rotella changed their rating to CJ4. I also found out that candian tire brand 15-40 diesel oil for gasoline and diesel motors is rated CI4. I asked the manager where they get their oil from .He said it was Esso brand.My question is does Esso Diesel 15/40 oil good for out flat tappet cams???? It says on the bottle Rated CI4 and doesn't say anything about CJ4

I went to canadian tire last night looking for oil.What I found is rotella changed their rating to CJ4. I also found out that candian tire brand 15-40 diesel oil for gasoline and diesel motors is rated CI4. I asked the manager where they get their oil from .He said it was Esso brand.My question is does Esso Diesel 15/40 oil good for out flat tappet cams???? It says on the bottle Rated CI4 and doesn't say anything about CJ4
The important thing: Is it ALSO rated for spark-ignition engines?

The only reason folks gravitated to the Rotella (and Delo???) is that it is DUAL-RATED for both diesel and gasoline engines.

So if the Esso stuff is also spec'ed for gasoline engines--buy lots.

rated for both, gas and diesel so I'll buy a few cases great thanks:hurray::hurray::hurray:

I use AMSOIL, I just got a returned email from them stating what their full syn oil has in it and I m very pleased. They do state though and recomend a additive at break-in of new cam and lifters. they also go on to say most cam lobe failers are mainly from cheap(offshore) lifters. Buy the best lifter you can.
I use thier 10W30 full syn in my 327.:thumbsup:Just go to their web site and shoot them an tech e-mail about flat tappet concerns and ZDP content, to me they are a superior oil and seem to have the goods to back it up IMHO...

break in with valvoline 10-30 and unless you are drag racin it every day use valvoline 10-40
the 20-50 stuff is just to thick and heavy and will allow cylinder scoring before it starts to move through the engine on start ups!!

Here is my experience with castrol 20w-50 gtx i ran in my 396 since i bought it in 1978 when i gave it a $700 refresh with new rings(std bore)/bearings/cam/lifters/oil pump/time chain/std valve job with guides neuralized and then ran the motor in that state untill i pulled the motor a 2nd time in 2001 (23yrs/approx 20k miles) due to the main seal & oil pan gasket leaking leaking from age but not because it needed it,motor was running fine. The cost for parts & machine work in 1978 were about 1/4 the cost of that the are today.

The motor sill ran fine but i didnt want to just re-gasket/seal the motor just to have something else happen a yr or 2 down the road since the motor was rblt many yrs back which is why i rebuilt it for approx $3600-$3,800 for parts & machine work doing a lot more this time arround because more $ was available this time arround,i did all the dis-assembly & re-assembly for both rebuilds.

So with that said when i tore the motor down it had normal cyl wear for 97k miles and no cyl scoring or scratching or anything else bad with bearings etc at all related to 20w-50 oil use.

The machinest meas all the cyls and said they showed normal wear for age/miles/type usage and were still inside the wear limits though at the upper end so i decided to bore it .030 over just to be safe to ensure proper ring seal.

But i would not use 20w-50 in cold weather,castrol stated on the 20w-50 GTX containers that it was ok down to 20 deg f but i would not use it below 40 deg.

For this 2nd rbld i broke the motor in on 10w-30 & GM EOS for cam breakin and also for the post cam breakin oil change that i ran for approx 200-300 miles for this 2nd rbld,then i switched to 15w-40 with more Zn & P for better flat tapet cam protection after that . On the 15w-40 castrol container it states it's ok down to 10 deg f and as i already stated above the castrol gtx stated it was ok down to 20 deg f. But i would only run the 15w-40 down to 30 deg and the 20w-50 down to 40 deg f if it were me.

scott

In the past I have allways used Castrol gtx 20w50. This time I am breaking in on 4 qrts Valvoline racing 20W50, 3 qrts Valoline 10w40 and 1 qrt of GM EOS. Will switch to Valoline 10w40 7 qrts and 1 qrt of GM EOS for the winter storage. When engine is finaly broke in and rings seated well I will likely switch to royal purple xpr 20W50.

mobil 1 all the way, i've seen regular oil actually boil in a circle track motor. burned up rockers and how knows what else. replaced every thing , switched to mobil 1 and it never happened again. good luck

mobil 1 all the way, i've seen regular oil actually boil in a circle track motor. burned up rockers and how knows what else. replaced every thing , switched to mobil 1 and it never happened again. good luck

I've use Mobil 1 15w50 before and I liked it but have read that some cam companies say not to use it with flat tappet cams. I'm seeing that most guys that run Mobil 1 do not have problems. Is this the case?

I've use Mobil 1 15w50 before and I liked it but have read that some cam companies say not to use it with flat tappet cams. I'm seeing that most guys that run Mobil 1 do not have problems. Is this the case?Keep in mind that almost all street oil's have changed over the last couple of year with the new regulations...that is the issue. The brand that worked well for you last year, may not have enough additives today.

Chevron Delo 400 15W40 diesel oil is still available in the good old CI-4 rating at Autozone. I just picked some up today.

I know the Rotella T and I am sure most of the deisel oil are lower zinc and phosephate then a year ago do to goverment regulations.

I that http://www.cen-pe-co.com/ has a deisel 15/40 built for the older engines that has 1582 zinc and high in phosephate and there 20/50 has even more zinc.

Castrol Syntec

Carl,The oil your suggesting looks very good but the only problem is it not very easy to obtain for you avg guy . I went to thier site and it wasnt very user friendly for getting info or buying any oil even though it may be good stuff ,it seems to be more of sell to the industry type thing like your shop and not the general public.

If you can tell us how to buy the cenpeco oil without having to do a builk purchase and what it costs that would be great for those here in t/chevelle that want to try it out.

But the chevron delo 400 le 15w-40 still has decent zddp lvls in newer CJ version & just the re-tested lubriplate gpo 15w-40 that now shows higher zddp too are both easily obtainable. The delo is available in any good auto parts store and the lubriplate took me 5 mins to order off the lubriplate site inc free shipping to my door in 2-3 days or you can buy the lubriplate oil on ebay too as buy it now.

But as you suspected the rotella CJ 15w-40 does in fact have lower zddp thats really not enough by its selt to safely protect a high perf flat tappet cam with elevated spring pressures without a small boost in zddp from eos or crane super lube.

Scott

Carl,The oil your suggesting looks very good but the only problem is it not very easy to obtain for you avg guy . I went to thier site and it wasnt very user friendly for getting info or buying any oil even though it may be good stuff ,it seems to be more of sell to the industry type thing like your shop and not the general public.

If you can tell us how to buy the cenpeco oil without having to do a builk purchase and what it costs that would be great for those here in t/chevelle that want to try it out.

But the chevron delo 400 le 15w-40 still has decent zddp lvls in newer CJ version & just the re-tested lubriplate gpo 15w-40 that now shows higher zddp too are both easily obtainable. The delo is available in any good auto parts store and the lubriplate took me 5 mins to order off the lubriplate site inc free shipping to my door in 2-3 days or you can buy the lubriplate oil on ebay too as buy it now.

But as you suspected the rotella CJ 15w-40 does in fact have lower zddp thats really not enough by its selt to safely protect a high perf flat tappet cam with elevated spring pressures without a small boost in zddp from eos or crane super lube.

ScottI want to thank you for all the oil-info you provide.
I have a lot of customers that ask and I keep a lot of the info. you provide printed up for them to read.
I also send customers to this forum.
Again thank-you much and keep up the great work.:yes:

N20 Go,Thanks A Lot For The Kind Word's And Glad To Have Been Of Help You with this oil info,it's Nice To Hear Its Appreciated And Benefitial To You ,your Customers,and Most Importantly All Our Fellow T/chevelle Members.

Scott

30 A Rider wrote:
"My 93 Suburban has 239K miles on it. Tows my boat on weekends and is my Daily driver. My last Suburban I sold with 375K miles on it. Neither had rebuilds but the 375K truck had a cam/lifter/ timing chain at 300K. On both of these trucks I typically used 10/30 for first 100K; then went to 15/40 for 100-200K; and 20/50 for past 200k figuring some wear and increased clearances could use thicker oils. I never was loyal to any specific brand and none of them were synthetic. What I did do is once I hit 100K I started changind the oil more fequently and my truck now with 239K, I change it every 2500 miles. I would think on any engine changing oil more frequently and /or on time is what matters more so than brand....but this is JMO.

The question I have is this: Lots of synthetic companies suggest you can go longer between changes than 3000 miles; some even saying 5000 and 7500 etc. Amsoil back about 20 years ago when I was a motorcycle dealership parts manager was trying to sell me on Amsoil.... and how his new van outside had 29k miles on the oil in it..."

Hi ,

Upfront, I am an Amsoil dealer; made a whopping $135 last year so it's not my main income and I don't push it. As to your question about more miles between changes; YES, it works and I have done it in my personal cars and others. I have an 83 Volvo wagon with 190K on it. I have had Amsoil in it since the early 90's and I do oil analysis, NOT at Amsoil. I send it to indepenent lab in Calgary. Just bought a used 99Sub'n with 100K and put 5W/30 Amsoil in it. I'll test it at 10K, then again at 20K to make sure it's okay; each engine is different.

Bottom line with this entire thread, the oils of today are far superior to 30-40 years ago; the oil "education" hasn't kept up. Let's face it, do yout think the oil companies want you to go farther between changes?? Oil changes every 3K miles in our cars are the only thing we still do today that we did in the 40's-50's...???? Think about that. Spark plugs go 100K plus, exhaust systems last a LONG time. It seems everything is better.(except windshields.....cracks are almost a factory option!!! Another thread)

I asked the guys at the oil lab what they see on a daily basis. He said the "off the shelf conventionals",ie, castrol, Valvoline, Pennzoil, etc, will go 8-9K between changes, and a good synthetic will go 25-35K or more with a good filter. I was shocked when he said the conventionals are good for 8-9K, but he does it for a living and I figure he had no reason to lie to me.

Cars today are much better; closer tolerances, fuel injection and OD trannies allow the oil to go longer. The carbs of 30 years ago pissed fuel into the oil and diluted it; EFI doesn't do that. The OD trannies have us running down the highway at 16-1800 rpm versus 25-3500rpm. The cars also run at hotter temps and I think that helps to burn out the water and other impurities in the oil, JMO.

Yes, if you change oil every 3000 miles, your engine will probably outlast the chassis. You can do the same thing with a good synthetic every 20-30K miles. I know it's hard to believe and I was very skeptical when I read about it. I tried it, tested it, and it does what it claims. Every engine is different, but if you have a good, solid, sound running engine that does not leak or burn oil excessively (a qt in less than 4K, my personal limit) I would not be afraid to switch or try it. With the price of conventional oil today, it's a lot cheaper to go synthetic for extended drains. I talk to a lot of guys who use Mobil syn and change it every 3000!!!! You can go a LOT longer than that. My neighbor has a 2000 F350 P'stroke; he changes Rotella every 3-4K. We have a 99; same truck and change AMsoil 15/40 diesel every 15-18K and it has 280K miles on it still running strong.

In my 540 I have used Valvoline 20/50 racing and Exxon 20/50 racing with no problems, But it is getting harder to find. The websites mentioned in previous posts are full of great info on oils; more than I wanted to know.

Have fun,

Bob

BOB,you may not realize it but you may be comparing apples to oranges,all this oil stuff we are discussing here is in refernece to motors with flat flatt tappet cams that can use zddp at times for added protection & not factory roller cams.

I believe the 93 & 99 GM V8's your vehicles had should have roller cams from factory which is a totally different situation because they really dont normally require the zddp protection like the flat tappet cams do. I know GM started putting roller cams in many of their V8's in late 87or 88 with exception of the L69 305HO with q-jet used in the Monte SS's last yr which was 88.

So keep that in mind when thinking about all this oil stuff.

Scott

I asked the guys at the oil lab what they see on a daily basis. He said the "off the shelf conventionals",ie, castrol, Valvoline, Pennzoil, etc, will go 8-9K between changes, and a good synthetic will go 25-35K or more with a good filter. I was shocked when he said the conventionals are good for 8-9K, but he does it for a living and I figure he had no reason to lie to me.

Cars today are much better; closer tolerances, fuel injection and OD trannies allow the oil to go longer. The carbs of 30 years ago pissed fuel into the oil and diluted it; EFI doesn't do that. The OD trannies have us running down the highway at 16-1800 rpm versus 25-3500rpm. The cars also run at hotter temps and I think that helps to burn out the water and other impurities in the oil, JMO.
My '03 Trailblazer has an "Oil life" monitor built-into the onboard computer. Apparently, it "knows" how you drive the vehicle based on the engine speed, temperature, throttle position, transmission gear, etc. It plays mathematical games with that input and decides how "used up" the oil is. A display of 100% would be "new" oil; 0% is "used up, depleted/contaminated" oil.

My typical use has the oil monitor telling me that ~12,000--13,000 miles is perfectly acceptable change intervals. Oil samples taken at the oil change confirm this. The sampled oil tests as "Fit for further use".

I remember very well what oil--and engine internals--looked like in the era before oxygen sensors and overdrive transmissions. Things were worse still back when "dinosaurs died of lead poisoning" but my personal experience is much more limited on stuff that old.

rotella has a c4 additive your engine needs , it keeps the oil on your cam , most oil brands remove it many years ago

My '03 Trailblazer has an "Oil life" monitor built-into the onboard computer. Apparently, it "knows" how you drive the vehicle based on the engine speed, temperature, throttle position, transmission gear, etc. It plays mathematical games with that input and decides how "used up" the oil is. A display of 100% would be "new" oil; 0% is "used up, depleted/contaminated" oil.

My typical use has the oil monitor telling me that ~12,000--13,000 miles is perfectly acceptable change intervals. Oil samples taken at the oil change confirm this. The sampled oil tests as "Fit for further use".

I remember very well what oil--and engine internals--looked like in the era before oxygen sensors and overdrive transmissions. Things were worse still back when "dinosaurs died of lead poisoning" but my personal experience is much more limited on stuff that old.


my 80 malibu still had the original manual and service guide with it when i bought it a few years ago, it said oil change intervals at 10000 miles and oil filter every second change (20000)miles.... wonder what happened in the last 20 years that we have to change every 3000 miles, or did someone make up some BS about having to change it every 3000 miles. im not saying its not a good idea but not needed for alot of the vehicles on the road today, my dad owns a taxi business and i do the oil changes on the cars usually when weather permits, usually go at least 6-7000k (kilometers) sometimes more between changes. usually get 450k(kilometers)outta these cars.

BIZKIT21 wrote:

"my 80 malibu still had the original manual and service guide with it when i bought it a few years ago, it said oil change intervals at 10000 miles and oil filter every second change (20000)miles.... "

Hi,

I noticed your Canadian location. Does the manual say miles or Kilometers?? Europe went to longer oil drain intervals years ago; the US has been reluctant to change, but they are doing it now reference the new cars with "oil change" monitors. Was your car built in Canada?? That's the first I have heard about that long between changes in a car from the 80's. FWIW, The lab I use for sample analysis is in Calgary.

Kinda funny; oil is like politics and religion.

Bob

crap, now you got me thinkin. im going to search for that piece of paper, and il report back, pretty sure it said miles. i thought it didnt make sense the first time i read it but it is a factory maintenance schedule.

ok, my bad. i found the manual, not the maintenance schedule but it says the oil change intervals. it says to change oil at 7500 MILES, not klics even though the speedo in the car is in kilometers. oil filter at every second change 15000 miles. but it does state this:

change the oil and filter every 3000 miles if you drive under one or more of these "severe" service conditions

driving in dusty areas

towing a trailer

frequent idling or idling for long periods

driving 4 miles or less in freezing weather or other short trips in cold weather where the engine does not thoroughly worm up

change the oil and filter as soon as possible after driving in a dust storm(wonder about this one?)

so again my bad, but still.....

rotella has a c4 additive your engine needs , it keeps the oil on your cam , most oil brands remove it many years ago

Can someone elaborate on this c4 additive? I've never heard of this. Is it found in Delo? Only c4 I know of is an explosive:):D

CI-4 is the "code" on the bottle of the older oils that had more zinc additive and the new CJ-4 botles are cut back on the additive zinc.

there is no additive called c4 and yes the other will make your engine go boom.

i heard it's not good to switch to synthetic with a motor that has been broken in with normal. i heard somthing to the effect that it would leak through the seals after time? i know nothing on synthectic, never used it.

What can happen is that over a long period of time a engine that has used "dino" oil may form a false seal, that is a seal has gotten old but the oil has "gummed" up the leak and because syn oils don't gum up as easy and have a better cleaning effect the false seal is cleaned away and that old worn seal starts leaking.
It's not the syn oil that makes a leak but rather exposed the bad seal.

thanks, shouldn't have a problem even though my motors build is a little over 5 years old, its clean no sludge at all anywhere. i've thought about it for high RPM use on highways and it's anti-breakdown factor and the fact that it may flow better when compared to conventional oil, or "dino" oil as you put it. :p

Mobil-1 5W-30, 10W-30 & 10W-40, all fully synthetic.
I also use Valvoline now and again.

I never heard of Rotella.

Rotella T is a heavy duty oil made for deisel and gas engines it has more additives because of the friction a deisel engine has over a gas engine only oil because of the new gov standards on oils to the public.

It also has been lowered in zinc content but it has a little more than regular oils.
You can find it at most auto zones and like places or truck stops.
Also delo 400 is a good oil just like Rotella T ,same deal.

Royal Purple XPR 5w30 in my Chevelle. But to be honest I can't see any wear patterns between the better oils if you change it often like every month

Rotella T is a heavy duty oil made for deisel and gas engines it has more additives because of the friction a deisel engine has over a gas engine only oil because of the new gov standards on oils to the public.

It also has been lowered in zinc content but it has a little more than regular oils.
You can find it at most auto zones and like places or truck stops.
Also delo 400 is a good oil just like Rotella T ,same deal.

Thanks, much w-dog.

Respectfully,
John R.

i can get 15w-40 Rotella in cases at my work in sothern cali. pm me sell for a good price

Ok my 2cents I always ran 20-50 valvaline gray bottle racingoil in my sbc blower car so when I got my bbc I stuck with it. last year 2007 had to do an oil change last season before went to race had been driving to car show I host for my club on tuesdays. A freind says here use this case of oil up for me so I took the last 8 quarts he had of castrol gtx 20-50. To be honest I used to use castrol gtx in my bike and went to valvaline Vr-1 at the dealers recomendation bikes an 06 and still under warranty. Anyway went like this I put in the castrol took car out raced it ran fine. I did notice however that the castrol at idle stayed about 5lbs lower in oil pressure then the same motor did with the Vavoline. All other things were same. This was in a 468 that was just put together in 06 so everything is new not wore out. Motor had maybe ten passes on the track and 3000 total miles. Had 175 thermostat never ran over 185. For me Iam sticking with valvoline that 5lb drop in oil pressure just didnt sit well with me. Just so you know I refer to the motor in past tense only cause I sold the short block to a friend and I am building a new higher horse 468 now cause the car just didnt go fast enough for me with the other motor.

Std castrol gtx isnt what it used ty be 10yrs ago,i used it for over 20 years but not anymore esp in a flat tappet cam'd motor.

Scott

Ok my 2cents I always ran 20-50 valvaline gray bottle racingoil in my sbc blower car so when I got my bbc I stuck with it. last year 2007 had to do an oil change last season before went to race had been driving to car show I host for my club on tuesdays. A freind says here use this case of oil up for me so I took the last 8 quarts he had of castrol gtx 20-50. To be honest I used to use castrol gtx in my bike and went to valvaline Vr-1 at the dealers recomendation bikes an 06 and still under warranty. Anyway went like this I put in the castrol took car out raced it ran fine. I did notice however that the castrol at idle stayed about 5lbs lower in oil pressure then the same motor did with the Vavoline. All other things were same. This was in a 468 that was just put together in 06 so everything is new not wore out. Motor had maybe ten passes on the track and 3000 total miles. Had 175 thermostat never ran over 185. For me Iam sticking with valvoline that 5lb drop in oil pressure just didnt sit well with me. Just so you know I refer to the motor in past tense only cause I sold the short block to a friend and I am building a new higher horse 468 now cause the car just didnt go fast enough for me with the other motor.

IMO, the reason the GTX 20w50 showed a 5lb drop in oil pressure may be due to the fact that GTX 20w50 is slightly thinner than the VR1 20w50 on the viscosity scale. VR1 is a very thick 20w50 compared to other 20w50's. Royal Purple 20w50 is also a very thick 20w50.

Straight 30 Wt. I like dinosaur oil, Valvoline to be precise. Change your oil like a good boy and you shouldn't have any problems. Yes, I said dinosaur oil.

Spectro 20/50 Semi-Syn 1800PPM ZDDP

Spectro 20/50 Semi-Syn 1800PPM ZDDP

Is this it?

Spectro (http://www.spectro-oils.com/products/4stroke/golden.asp)






How about high mileage oils?

BITOG (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1458337#Post1458337)

GOTSPRAY,RIGHT MFG WRONG PRODUCT.

DONT USE BIKE OIL IN PASS CAR MOTORS BECASUE THERE ARE ADDITIVES FOR WET CLUTCH AND TRANSMISSION THAT ARE NOT GOOD FOR THEM.

HERES THE CORRECT OIL

SCOTT

www.goldenmotorguard.com.

GOTSPRAY,RIGHT MFG WRONG PRODUCT.

DONT USE BIKE OIL IN PASS CAR MOTORS BECASUE THERE ARE ADDITIVES FOR WET CLUTCH AND TRANSMISSION THAT ARE NOT GOOD FOR THEM.

HERES THE CORRECT OIL

SCOTT

www.goldenmotorguard.com.

Super! Thanks for the correction and info as always :thumbsup:

well heres a twist for me any way the builder said to use 10/40 castrol to break in the new engine and then to run synthetic 10/40 after the engine is second oil change he said run it for 500-1000miles on the castrol for break in then chenge the oil and filter cut open filter and bring it to him so he can diagnose how the break in went. he said then run the castrol for another 1000 miles. then change both the filter and oil and go with what ever synthetic brand you like in 10/40. he also wont honor the warrenty if I dont use a wix brand filter.
so I asked him if it was ok to break the engine in on 10/30 penzoil as I have a case since its what I use in my everyday driver and in my tow vehicle he said that oil will be fine just make sure you use a wix brand oil filter.

The machine shop that builds all the 7 second cars around here told me that 20w50 sucks! The cylinder walls are always worn down way too fsat cuz the viscosity is too high for start up.

Jeff,if your running roller cam that fine but if your running a flat tappet cam the engine builder doesnt know what the heck he's talking about esp saying the over the counter SM rated penn 10w-30 is fine for cam/lifter breakin by its self because IT'S NOT!

You should use and oil that readily avail in local store like chevron delo 15w-40 or Valvolines VR1 10w30 race oil that have a decent zddp lvl by themselves along with with gm eos ,cam shield,ZDDPLUS,or new lucas TB Zinc breakin lube etc for flat tappet cam breakin but not any std pass car SM rated by its self because the zddp lvls are way too low for breakin & post breakin protection too esp for even a mild flat tappet perf cam.

They ran a survey here in t/chevelle a while back for flat tappet cams and the outcome was after i crunched the data that you were approx 35-40% more likely to have a flat tappet cam failure (esp post breakin) if you dont use proper oil & oil additives with proper zddp/Zinc & Phos lvls for breakin & post breakin too.

Yes you can make it thru breakin of flat tappet cam/lfters with that oil esp if its a mild non aggresive grind if the cam/lfters were lubed up real well with the grey type moly paste type lube.

But you will very likely wipe the cam out down the road a few thousand mlies later taking out the rest of the motor with it too due to using an oil with low zddp lvl for breakin & post breakin too.

You need to tell your machinest he needs to get up to speed on why additional zddp is needed got flat tappet cam/lfter breakin and that it's also needed post breakin for a normal /longer service life too.

I sent you an email with info in installing flat tappet cams when it comes to proper lubes & oils to run for breakin & post breakin/tip for breakin/etc that i wrote up from my 38+ yrs of 1st hand exp instaling flat tappet cams in sbc/bbc perf motors. It also includes oil test to obtain zddp lvls in different oils that i did & general research i had done with respect to lower zddp lvls in todays SM rated oils and how that was affecting flat tappet cams.

Esp since 1/2007 when the EPA/FED GOV mandated for oil mfgs to reduce the zddp lvls in most all std pass car motors oils due to the zddp fouling cat convertes at approx 100k miles causing emmissions issues esp in the lighter 5-20/5-30/10-30oils and unfortunately that followed suit into some of the heavier grades like non race 10-40/20-50 oils including too including many synthetic oils too.

Scott

Jeff,if your running roller cam that fine but if your running a flat tappet cam the engine builder doesnt know what the heck he's talking about esp saying the over the counter SM rated penn 10w-30 is fine for cam/lifter breakin by its self because IT'S NOT!

You should use and oil that readily avail in local store like chevron delo 15w-40 or Valvolines VR1 10w30 race oil that have a decent zddp lvl by themselves along with with gm eos ,cam shield,ZDDPLUS,or new lucas TB Zinc breakin lube etc for flat tappet cam breakin but not any std pass car SM rated by its self because the zddp lvls are way too low for breakin & post breakin protection too esp for even a mild flat tappet perf cam.

They ran a survey here in t/chevelle a while back for flat tappet cams and the outcome was after i crunched the data that you were approx 35-40% more likely to have a flat tappet cam failure (esp post breakin) if you dont use proper oil & oil additives with proper zddp/Zinc & Phos lvls for breakin & post breakin too.

Yes you can make it thru breakin of flat tappet cam/lfters with that oil esp if its a mild non aggresive grind if the cam/lfters were lubed up real well with the grey type moly paste type lube.

But you will very likely wipe the cam out down the road a few thousand mlies later taking out the rest of the motor with it too due to using an oil with low zddp lvl for breakin & post breakin too.

You need to tell your machinest he needs to get up to speed on why additional zddp is needed got flat tappet cam/lfter breakin and that it's also needed post breakin for a normal /longer service life too.

I sent you an email with info in installing flat tappet cams when it comes to proper lubes & oils to run for breakin & post breakin/tip for breakin/etc that i wrote up from my 38+ yrs of 1st hand exp instaling flat tappet cams in sbc/bbc perf motors. It also includes oil test to obtain zddp lvls in different oils that i did & general research i had done with respect to lower zddp lvls in todays SM rated oils and how that was affecting flat tappet cams.

Esp since 1/2007 when the EPA/FED GOV mandated for oil mfgs to reduce the zddp lvls in most all std pass car motors oils due to the zddp fouling cat convertes at approx 100k miles causing emmissions issues esp in the lighter 5-20/5-30/10-30oils and unfortunately that followed suit into some of the heavier grades like non race 10-40/20-50 oils including too including many synthetic oils too.

Scott

Scott
first Ill say thanks
Second its a solid roller cam engine. what surprised me was not that he recomended 10/40 cause he has been telling me that for over a year. what surprised me was him saying the 10/30 was ok. also he is a big time castrol fan so I was also suprised he said the penzoil brand was good enough for break in.

Hi Jeff,you should have mentioned it was a roller motor,it was a loded question./LOL!!!

Anyway,even a roller cam & motor in general benifit from an oil with zddp esp at breakin along with a qualityh breakin additive like gm eos etc.

I think your not doing the right thing if you dont run a breakin additive of some kind for motor breakin,they dont mfg it for no reaon.

Also,to be safe don't switch to full syn right after breakin,i would wait untill you get a couple thousand miles on the motor to ensure rings are seat fully. But if its getting run every wk end at the strip where its leaned on hard which should make the rings seat faster so in that case you can switch to the syn oil much quicker.

BTW,i too was a castrol gtx fan for many yrs(30+) untill they reduced the zddp lvls so low in past few yrs its not good for flat tappet cam protection anymore.

Scott

Hi Jeff,you should have mentioned it was a roller motor,it was a loded question./LOL!!!

Anyway,even a roller cam & motor in general benifit from an oil with zddp esp at breakin along with a qualityh breakin additive like gm eos etc.

I think your not doing the right thing if you dont run a breakin additive of some kind for motor breakin,they dont mfg it for no reaon.

Also,to be safe don't switch to full syn right after breakin,i would wait untill you get a couple thousand miles on the motor to ensure rings are seat fully. But if its getting run every wk end at the strip where its leaned on hard which should make the rings seat faster so in that case you can switch to the syn oil much quicker.

BTW,i too was a castrol gtx fan for many yrs(30+) untill they reduced the zddp lvls so low in past few yrs its not good for flat tappet cam protection anymore.

Scott
well it kinda was more of a stastement then question lol. but that said he didnt say anything about adding any break in addative. asfor running at the strip I cant afford to run every weekend:( but I get out there when I can plus having two cars now makes it even harder to decide witch to take to the track lol. this is my street strip car in reality it sees car shows and summer quick trip use I try hard to stay away from the hiway but once in a blue moon it sees hiway time. I might drive it 1000 miles total a summer if that.

Jeff,since the car dosent see a lot of strip time or heavy abuse i would put some miles on it prior to switch to full syn but of course thats you choice.

Also,it cant hurt to run a breakin additive in the oil or a breakin specific oil like Royal Purple mfgs.

It's actually a conventional oil fortified with zddp and other things to ease scuffing/gailing etc when you 1st fire it up & likely 99 of 100 people use breakin additives and or oil with a new/rblt motor even with a roller setup.

Good luck.

Scott

I went to Advance autoparts for oil today. They have Chevron Delo 400LE indicating a "Low Emission" formula. Is this formula the same as the Delo 400?

(Is this the right place for this post, or should I start a new topic?)

Jay

My local machine shop recommended Brad Penn, so that's what I use. About 2000 miles on my rebuild and no signs of trouble at all. I also used a pint of EOS at engine break in, and add a pint at oil changes. I've done 3 oil changes in the 2000 miles

When i tested the oils brad penn had approx 850-900 ppm zddp and the chevron delo LE had 1300-1350 ppm zddp .

The rec amount of zddp for flat tappet cam protection is approx 1200-1400 ppm for stock to middle of the road lvl perf cams and approx 1400-1500 +ppm zddp for real hot cams with agressive lobes & high spring rates.

Bill,good thing your running some EOS with each oil change of the brad penn oil if your running a flat tappet cam,id keep doing that or run some cam shield that will be cheaper in long run.

I think the b-penn is a good oil overall but its strange that it tested low for zddp the 2x i had it tested even though thier more recent advertising over past yr or so states it has an ample zddp lvl whjich the testing showed otherwise.

Just a reminder,Valvolines VR1 race oils now have 1400ppm Z/1300ppm P according to the latest spec data sheet online . So they may be a better choice then the b-penn for a flat tappet cam setup due to higher zddp not to mention the valvoline cost less and also more money saved not needing any additive to boost the zddp lvl too.

Theres also spectro's new conventional and semi blend perf oils with approx 1,800ppm zddp or even pennzoils gt 25w-50 race oil with approx 1500-1600ppm zddp for hot cams but you have to buy both of them online,pnnzoil from summit & spectro from their site.

Scott

Thanks Scott!

Jay

What do you guys think about this one?

This is the CHEVRON product called CALTEX for us down under...

https://www.cbest.chevron.com/generated/MSDS/PDS32865271.PDF



This looks like the Australasian version of DELO 15-40

Can anyone tell me if this would be the same?

Scott, anyone?

Thanks

CRAIG,that oil looks to be the same as the older CI (not CJ) version chevron delo 400 15w-50 that had 1500ppm zinc which the Ausi version also has.

But be advised if its rated CI & CJ the zinc lvl will be lower at 1300ppm that only good for stock to very mild rv type flat tappet cam protection.

Scott

Hey Scott,

I have just got off the phone from Chevron/Caltex NZ and they have informed me that the delo 400 (As above) is running with 1580 ppm Zinc.

IT IS PURELY MINERAL AND NOT SYNTHETIC AT ALL.

IS THIS A PROBLEM?

Ok Guys,

Anyone running Joe Gibbs oil? Any recommendations?

Sounds like awesome oil.

Nascar oil... Click the link

http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/

Ok Guys,

Anyone running Joe Gibbs oil? Any recommendations?

Sounds like awesome oil.

Nascar oil... Click the link

http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/

thats all i run, Joe Gibs BR for the break in and Joe Gibbs Hot Rod 10w-30. love the stuff. i typically run agressive flat tappets and i ha ve never had a lick of trouble. its may be expensive but its cheap insurance when you compare it to a $10,000 motor. when i build motors for other people i only warenty if they use Joe Gibbs. they dont have to buy it from me but i need some kind of recept to prove they atleast bought it. but i do sell it to the guys i build motors for at a discount price. almost cost so there is no reason they dont buy it from me.

Cracker,what type motor are you running and what type cam & cam specs that your so concerned about running conventional vs semi blend or full syn?

The conventinal oil is generally fine for most street & mnay strip setups too unless maybe your talking something like an 8 second street car which may be a different story.

The gibbs oils have approx 1300ppm zddp and the delo has 1500+ zddp at 2x-3x less cost and the delo's CI rated oil has 1500+ppm zddp lvl is good enough for many flat tappet app's.(delo's newer CJ rated LE oil thats more prevelent in the US has 1300ppm zddp so be aware of that )

But theres also (just to name a few):

* spectro'ss new motor guard oils with 1800ppm zddp

*pennzoils gt race 25-50 with 1670ppm zddp when tested but mfg states over 1900ppm zddp

* valvolines vr1 race oils with 1400ppm zddp

* cen-pe-co oils with 1600 and others over 2000ppm zddp for real crazy race setups.

If you run an oil with approx 1450ppm-1500ppm or higher that will safely protect any stock flat tappet cam and most any hi perf flat tappet setup too unless maybe a real wild setup running 550-600+ lb over the top spring rates with agreesive lobes where i would look for at least 1800-2kppm zddp or more in that case with flat tappet cam.

scott

Cracker,what type motor are you running and what type cam & cam specs that your so concerned about running conventional vs semi blend or full syn?

The conventinal oil is generally fine for most street & mnay strip setups too unless maybe your talking something like an 8 second street car which may be a different story.

The gibbs oils have approx 1300ppm zddp and the delo has 1500+ zddp at 2x-3x less cost and the delo's CI rated oil has 1500+ppm zddp lvl is good enough for many flat tappet app's.(delo's newer CJ rated LE oil thats more prevelent in the US has 1300ppm zddp so be aware of that )

But theres also (just to name a few):

* spectro'ss new motor guard oils with 1800ppm zddp

*pennzoils gt race 25-50 with 1670ppm zddp when tested but mfg states over 1900ppm zddp

* valvolines vr1 race oils with 1400ppm zddp

* cen-pe-co oils with 1600 and others over 2000ppm zddp for real crazy race setups.

If you run an oil with approx 1450ppm-1500ppm or higher that will safely protect any stock flat tappet cam and most any hi perf flat tappet setup too unless maybe a real wild setup running 550-600+ lb over the top spring rates with agreesive lobes where i would look for at least 1800-2kppm zddp or more in that case with flat tappet cam.

scott

Its not so much for me but I need to know the best oils to use for my customers down here as I don't want to risk bustin' an engine because they selected the wrong oil.

This is for the engines I sell for Mark.

Great help, Thanks Scott.

Craig,no problem,glad to help you and mark keep your engines safe.

Scott

Its not so much for me but I need to know the best oils to use for my customers down here as I don't want to risk bustin' an engine because they selected the wrong oil.

This is for the engines I sell for Mark.

I thought you were just running them with salt water.....:D

I use Valvoline VR1 10W-30. Have used it for a very long time with nary a problem. It's even my breakin oil.

Pennzoil GT 25w-50 oil.Great oil for the price(4.25 quart)Very fortunate my local Autozone about 4.8 miles from my home carries it.

i run royal purple 10-40 in my 454. i also add the comp break-in additive for the zddp.

Just a reminder,

Valvolines VR1 race oils now have 1400ppm Z/1300ppm P.

the valvoline cost less and also more money saved
not needing any additive to boost the zddp lvl too.


Scott

That's the key = the right oil(s) do NOT require an additive. :hurray:

=======================================

Supplements are made for
brief time/mileage specified use
with engine builds and/or cam installs, etc.

=======================================

HELP SPREAD THE GOOD NEWS! --- TIA!! --- :beers:

where do pick up pennzoils gt race oil? I never heard of it