Smokey Yunick cowl plenum induction [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: Smokey Yunick cowl plenum induction


rlkreut
Feb 11th, 06, 10:37 AM
I was told some one is reproducing this induction set-up .I also read a posting form someone who made his own for $500. If any one has information about these two sources please let me know.
rlkreut

George Halpin
Feb 11th, 06, 12:39 PM
Here you go -

Nelson Rudisill
NKR Products
828-874-2335
North Carolina

Dan 67
Feb 11th, 06, 1:16 PM
Is that the one where the air comes from under the cowl panel to the air cleaner ?

66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE
Feb 11th, 06, 1:54 PM
Is that the one where the air comes from under the cowl panel to the air cleaner ?

YES, That's why it's called a Cowl Plenum Air Cleaner ;)

Contact Nelson.. he's good people... it's an exact REPLICA of the the Originals.. But... if you are buying this b/c you think you are going to increase your HP or something.. save your money all $1800.00 worth.. if it's cool Factor you want.. go for it! $500.. won't give you cool.. it will just give you a look IMO

Mike Crown

jpete
Feb 11th, 06, 1:56 PM
YES, That's why it's called a Cowl Plenum Air Cleaner ;)

Contact Nelson.. he's good people... it's an exact REPLICA of the the Originals.. But... if you are buying this b/c you think you are going to increase your HP or something.. save your money all $1800.00 worth.. if it's cool Factor you want.. go for it! $500.. won't give you cool.. it will just give you a look IMO

Mike Crown
Why wouldn't it make any HP? Smokey didn't build a legend on NOT making HP. I was going to fab something up myself. I can't see paying that much for anything. H*ll, I only paid $200 more for the whole car!:D

66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE
Feb 11th, 06, 2:08 PM
Jeff

So how much HP increase do you think a Cowl Plenum air cleaner adds?

Personal experience here... if someone thinks they are going to making an extra 20 hp or some ridiculous numbers, they are sadly mistaken. Smokey and others who used this, didn't JUST have a cowl plenum.. there were many other TRICKS used in combination with it that all add up to an increase in HP., just like anyone here who goes to the track weekends will tell ya.. It's always the Combo of what you have that gives you the increase.. Just slapping a Cowl Plenum on your Chevelle is not going to make much of a difference.

and sure, if someone has a daily driver or the like, I wouldn't think they would be in the market to spend $1800 for a cowl Plenum... just like you don't wear a Rolex and sneakers ;)

1BadBu
Feb 11th, 06, 2:50 PM
YES, That's why it's called a Cowl Plenum Air Cleaner ;)

Contact Nelson.. he's good people... it's an exact REPLICA of the the Originals.. But... if you are buying this b/c you think you are going to increase your HP or something.. save your money all $1800.00 worth.. if it's cool Factor you want.. go for it! $500.. won't give you cool.. it will just give you a look IMO

Mike Crown

Once again we have somebody spoutin off his opinion without knowing the slightest thing about the facts. You might wanna try READING a little before you go telling people what works and what doesn't. Try this for starters, Camaro-Untold Secrets by Wayne D. Guinn. You'll find an excerpt from this book online called Camaro Super Scoop. For all you Chevelle owners out there, you will find this a very informative article that explains the science behind your beloved Cowl Induction hood. Next time you're hangin' out at the local gathering and someone says "it's just for looks" you'll know what's what.

The FACT is, for every 11deg drop in intake temperature you make a 1 percent horsepower gain. Since we all know that underhood temps are fairly hot, it's not unreasonable to assume a 43deg drop is easily possible. On a engine rated at 350hp a 43deg drop in intake temp = 4 percent or 14hp. That's 14hp just from adding a cold air intake. The article is about the Cowl Hood and it's developement but the facts are the same.

What they're after is the higher air pressure found at the base of the windshield. It's about 2-3psi higher. So not only do you get cooler air, you get pressurised air. Why do you think every car in NASCAR uses a cowl plenum intake at the base of the windshield?

$1800, no freakin way. I don't care if it's a replica or not. The price is way too high and I would never pay that much for one. $200-$300...maybe. But I can go to RamAir and buy one of their housings, fabricate a tube to the firewall and achieve the same effect. And for a lot less money too.

Too much money for what you get, I agree. No horsepower gain, wrong. You are entitled to your opinion but next time you might want to express an EDUCATED opinion. IMO.

66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE
Feb 11th, 06, 3:23 PM
Scott, sorry if I offened you with my casual answer.. just didn't want somebody spending the money if they thought that's all it takes.. adding a PLenum Air Cleaner.. no need for the increased Hostility IMO.

So I ask you.. with my 66 SS, Bone Stock as it is... 396/360hp... I put a Cowl Plenum Air Cleaner on it, like I have on it here.... Do Nothing else..., take it to the track.... How much HP gain should I expect to get, should I expect to see a real change in my time on the 1/4 mile.. serious question, no need to get Hot Headed..and this is what I was refering to when I said, if you are just buying this item alone and doing nothing else... a 14 to 20 hp gain doesn't seem worth it... I never said, no HP gain.. just not worth the cost.
Thanks

Mike


http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/data/500/medium/my66cowlplenum3.JPG

Chris R
Feb 11th, 06, 4:58 PM
Do you have to use a different blower motor fan housing to make room on the cowl for the inlet to attach? Looks like a pretty narrow gap between the blower fan housing and the hood.

onovakind67
Feb 11th, 06, 5:07 PM
....What they're after is the higher air pressure found at the base of the windshield. It's about 2-3psi higher. So not only do you get cooler air, you get pressurised air. Why do you think every car in NASCAR uses a cowl plenum intake at the base of the windshield?....

.....Too much money for what you get, I agree. No horsepower gain, wrong. You are entitled to your opinion but next time you might want to express an EDUCATED opinion. IMO.

2-3 psi? Hardly. That would be about 54-81 inches of water, waaaaay beyond what you'll ever see at the base of a windshield in a subsonic car. Maybe 2-3" of water at 70 mph, about 0.1 psi. Unless you're going in excess of 150 the pressure is negligible.

66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE
Feb 11th, 06, 5:13 PM
No Chris, no mods are needed at all, well except cutting a nice rectangular hole in your firewall :)

Bill Rose
Feb 11th, 06, 5:18 PM
Once again we have somebody spoutin off his opinion without knowing the slightest thing about the facts. .
Dude, calm down. Your stressin out over nothing....

Thad
Feb 11th, 06, 5:38 PM
I think those are kinda cool.

I don't know either way if it would work or not, but do remember reading that 15 horsepower is worth about .10 of a second on a typical street car.

For 1800 dollars and cutting a hole in my firewall, I'd need more than that.

CANTED
Feb 11th, 06, 9:43 PM
Wouldent there be a good chance of having a fuel smell in the car? Having the cars ventalation and the carb breathe from the same source. No big deal on a race car, but....

jpete
Feb 11th, 06, 10:15 PM
I wouldn't think it would be all that bad. The fumes would have to migrate through the air filter and all. Plus, with the engine running, it's sucking all those fumes INTO the engine.

jpete
Feb 11th, 06, 10:30 PM
... I never said, no HP gain.. just not worth the cost.[QUOTE]

I believe this is where you implied that...

[quote] it will just give you a look

And I'm all for "the combination" too. I know that slapping that thing on my stock 307 isn't going to turn it into a 383. I would actually like it more for "the look" than anything. I don't like "belly button" Chevelles so I'd like to stick to my stock flat hood or possibly the "non functional" cowl hood I have. It seems like everyone around here has cowl induction and when I see them at shows, I barely even look. If I saw one of Smokey's cowl inductions on there, I'd stop and take a look.
But, it's all good, I know what you mean.

Dean
Feb 11th, 06, 10:46 PM
[QUOTE=66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE]... I never said, no HP gain.. just not worth the cost.


I believe this is where you implied that...

it will just give you a look



Y’all are reading something that is simply just not there.

He did not say (or imply) “NO horse power increase”.

You left out “IF IT’S COOL FACTOR YOU WANT” - IMO

if it's cool Factor you want.. go for it! $500.. won't give you cool.. it will just give you a look IMO

Trooper
Feb 12th, 06, 8:40 AM
But... if you are buying this b/c you think you are going to increase your HP or something.. save your money


This is the quote that gave me that impression.

Dean
Feb 12th, 06, 8:58 AM
Anyway looks like everybody's on the same page as far as not caring to spend that much money to gain .01 sec.

DZAUTO
Feb 12th, 06, 11:01 AM
When I bought my 70 Malibu (NOT an SS) conv, it came with a 307 which promptly got replaced witha SB400.
Ever since I first saw a 70 with a CI hood I have thought they were the KING of optional FACTORY hoods. And I've never changed my mind. For the 69-earlier Chevelles, the Cowl-plenum air cleaner is as cool as they come.
REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THERE IS OR IS NOT A SIGNIFICANT, OR ANY HP INCREASE, IT IS STILL A NICE PIECE OF HARDWARE TO ADD TO A 69-EARLIER CHEVELLE.
When I bought my 70 in 1998, along with the SB400 that I built, I also spent the money to add a COMPLETE, functional CI hood system (there is more than JUST the hood). If I had a 69-earlier Chevelle with a BB I think that I definitely would be inclined to add a Cowl-plenum air cleaner!
Does the induction of cooler, outside air from the base of the windsheld provide any added hp? Is there a significant pressure differential at the base of the windshield while going down the road at 20mph, 30mph, 60mph, 80mph? To answer BOTH of these questions is easy. First, do the physics to see if cooler air is a benefit. Second, drive your Chevelle down the street WITHOUT a windshield (like I did when I took it to the glass shop for a new one) to see just how much air is coming across the top of the hood!

onovakind67
Feb 12th, 06, 11:18 AM
My cold air induction system was worth about 0.15 seconds in the quarter. Cost me about $30 to build.

CDN SS
Feb 12th, 06, 12:03 PM
Like Tom said this is way more than how much does it improve performance , it's all about a rare GM original performance part that was avaialble for some Chevelles also for those of us who were around when these Chevelles raced with this part that was designed by an icon the price is not the point ...BTW a real surviving or NOS unit is worth far !! more ..

.. ya ya you can build a version cheaper or better but it will never be a GM Cowl plenum AC .... For those who comment on how well they add HP or not .before you do might be an idea to ask someone who actually had one on their car !! Mike"s info is correct he had one !! and on a his car I'm sure it did nothing for HP ( also mike never has his car over 50mph anyway :) from experience I can tell you Smokey had a great idea but it was not the best config ........yes Nascar still uses them but if you look they don't pull air from the left side they pull air from the center ......these original CP units pulled air right over the headers and are made of sheet metal .......the Intake Air temp at low or even drag race speeds do not get lowered enought to make measurable gains Nascar speeds now the thats different ....... now if you wrapped it or made it of a material that deflected the heat ...yes the theory works especially for drag racing with computer controlled cars IAT controls the timing ..... for those who have made homemade ones ( or even the store bot ones) check you IAT compared to ambient and if you see a 10* drop then you have done something,
sori for the rant but when a member asks for info on a topic and someone with the part gives their opinion then it seems some with no knowledge of the part in question start challenging the feedback or picking apart the dialog ........ remeber what the question was!!! also yes these CP units can and do transmit a gas smell in the interior ,especially at idle at least on early Chevelles

EddieC67ss
Feb 12th, 06, 1:15 PM
Well stated CDN SS.

onovakind67
Feb 12th, 06, 1:37 PM
for those who have made homemade ones ( or even the store bot ones) check you IAT compared to ambient and if you see a 10* drop then you have done something,


I measured mine above the carb with the stock air cleaner and with the fresh air setup, and found about a 25°F drop at 70 mph. I also measured about 2"h2o increase in pressure above the carb.

1BadBu
Feb 12th, 06, 1:51 PM
Cooler, denser air increases hp. Period. It's not my opinion, it's scientific fact born from testing. If you want to dismiss the facts, that's your business. "the world is NOT round and I don't care what you say". OK fine. Take your ball and go home.

Underhood temps are much higher than outside air. If bringing in outside air wasn't a viable option, nobody would do it. You wouldn't see hood scoops of every configuration imaginable. Cold air intakes would be a joke. NASCAR builders would eliminate them in a heartbeat for the weight reduction, if nothing else.

The problem is, there's a mind-set that says "if I can't feel it or see it on my time-slip, then it doesn't exsist." But it does exsist. Just like using a windage tray or crankscraper. If cooler intake air doesn't make hp then why aren't you guys poo-pooing the Air-Gap manifolds almost all of you have installed? You do it because EVERY LITTLE BIT HELPS. It's not about some big change like bolting on a blower or adding nitrous. It's about the cumulative effect. It's about all those little things adding up. It's 2hp here and 3hp there and pretty soon, you've added 10-20-30hp just by paying attention to the details. Even after I posted the numbers, guys were writing that it's just a bunch of hooey. Good grief...

I suppose that maybe if all cars came with cold-air intakes back in 1970, we could go out and fabricate air cleaners that have a 1" opening at the end of a long snorkel that only sucked in pre-heated air from under the hood thru a paper filter. THEN, when your 1/4 mile times went UP instead of down we could all agree that the hot air snorkel wasn't such a great idea after all.

My original post was not a personal attack on Tom Parsons. Tom, my apologees sir. I was trying to make a point that there is substantial proof that the cold air intakes do indeed increase hp by bringing in cooler denser outside air. I was not upset or bent out of shape in any way. What I am is frustrated by some of the posts here at Team Chevelle where people express their "opinion" without acknowledging the facts. If you are going to express an opinion that flys in the face of years of research by college educated guys with degrees in Mechanical Engineering at GM and track legends like Smokey Yunik then please, have some sort of information to back up your claim or AT LEAST acknowlege to the rest of us that your opinion is not based on what you've read or studied or done significant testing on. Please tell us that you are, in fact, expressing an opinion based solely on your personal experiece of having bolted one on to your car and zero research. These threads are FULL of questions from guys who've spent money buying parts that their buddies told them to buy, only to find out they don't work and they want to know why.

Many of the members posting at Team Chevelle are first time owners of carburated engines. I saw a post here once that asked "what are points and were do I find them?". Over in the Suspension section there are guys running the tall spindle swap that REFUSE to admit that there is an inherant bumpsteer problem even when confronted with the mathmatical proof. IMO, I think it is a disservice to other members when anyone, myself included, gives advice or answers a technical question without knowing all the facts. My first impession was that Tom had never read the article I mentioned, otherwise he would not have dismissed the cowl induction air intake as a waste of money. I felt it necessary to point out that there is indeed much evidence to the contrary and I listed just one of my sources. I have also come across research into Smokey's design when looking into alternatives to the Cowl Hood because I want something different. There is also a company out there making aftermarket "Shaker" scoops. These all have one thing in common. Bringing in the cooler, denser outside air.

In the March 2006 issue of Super Chevy magazine, there is a Tech Talk article by Dick Brandt on page 125. The article is about the 1966 cowl plenum air cleaner. In his article, Dick mentions that reproductions can be had "for under $200". Since I have researched various intakes trying to find something different, I was excited to see one available for $200. Especially since I already new that the reproductions were $1800. I emailed Dick at True Connections to get the name of the source of the $200 units and he replied that the price listed was a "typo" and should have been $2000.

Quote: "The performance gains will be obvious, plus it looks cool. Unfortunately, the price tag makes this option unavailable to the faint of heart."

I know that Cowl Induction works because I've seen the data gathered from testing. I don't need to install one and test it myself. Whether or not the gain is worth the expense is up to your wallet. What cannot be denied is that there IS a gain. If the wording in my reply seemed over-the-top, sorry. But the facts are the facts.

I know the world is not flat because I've seen the pictures but I've never been in outer space or walked all the way around so I guess some of you will argue that I don't really know for sure.

Dean
Feb 12th, 06, 2:33 PM
Well Scott, I think a lot sometimes depends on how someone's post gets interpreted or how well it might have been worded or possibly what gets read "between the lines"
Also not personally knowing something about the person posting sometimes contributes to misunderstandings too.

I know I've done my share of posting a reply without really reading another post well enough. :o

Maybe I'm wrong too but the way I interpreted what mike meant was "not worth the price just solely to increase performance".

Getting hostile with another poster really solves nothing.

By the way it was Mike, not Tom and Mike does have an original cowl plenum air cleaner.

Schurkey
Feb 12th, 06, 11:34 PM
The FACT is, for every 11deg drop in intake temperature you make a 1 percent horsepower gain. Since we all know that underhood temps are fairly hot, it's not unreasonable to assume a 43deg drop is easily possible. On a engine rated at 350hp a 43deg drop in intake temp = 4 percent or 14hp. That's 14hp just from adding a cold air intake. The article is about the Cowl Hood and it's developement but the facts are the same.

What they're after is the higher air pressure found at the base of the windshield. It's about 2-3psi higher. So not only do you get cooler air, you get pressurised air. Why do you think every car in NASCAR uses a cowl plenum intake at the base of the windshield?

Cooler, denser air increases hp. Period.

If you change your air intake to provide cooler, denser, "pressurized" air, you had better be prepared to play with the fuel curve, or you are going to LOSE power/drivability because of a lean condition. If you gain power, you were too rich to begin with.

YES, there is power to be had by pulling air from the cowl. It is NOT just throwing on the cowl induction parts, though. You better be prepared to do some carb tuning.

Greybeard
Feb 13th, 06, 1:11 AM
In '69 I bought a crate L88 and stuck it a Camaro, m21, put some 5.13s in a 12bolt, 31X10.50s and went to the track. After a day of playing with the 3 brrl Holley, I got it running some 11.20s @ 119mph. The carb was REAL close to the hood, so I hacked a hole and built a sheet metal cowl induction. When I took it to SIR the next weekend, it ran an 11.20 @118. When I pulled the plugs they were scorched. More jetting-still scorched. but left with a best of 11.11 @ 122. Went home and installed fuel pressure gage on the cowl. Took it out on the street and ran it through the gears, no fuel pressure problem. Bought more jets and went to Bremerton the next week. By the end of the day, 10.90s @ 125.

So my take is, if colder pressurized air doesn't make you faster, you've got work to do.

novaderrik
Feb 13th, 06, 4:00 AM
i think the reason Chevy put the flapper valve on the Chevelles and Camaros with the cowl induction hoods was to keep the gas fumes out of the passenger compartment when the car isn't running.
as for the amount of pressure available at the base of the hood- i'd say it's probably MORE than 2-3 psi.
if you have a non-ac equipped car, shut off the heater fan and open up the kick panel vents and go for a drive. hold your hand over the open vent as you accelerate- starting at about 5mph, you begin to feel a noticable breeze coming out of it. at highway speeds, it is quite an impressive amount of pressure coming out there- and it comes straight from the base of the windshield where a "cowl induction" setup gets it's air. also, notice how "cool" it feels.

David Bates
Feb 13th, 06, 6:47 AM
And I'm all for "the combination" too. I know that slapping that thing on my stock 307 isn't going to turn it into a 383. I would actually like it more for "the look" than anything. I don't like "belly button" Chevelles so I'd like to stick to my stock flat hood or possibly the "non functional" cowl hood I have. It seems like everyone around here has cowl induction and when I see them at shows, I barely even look. If I saw one of Smokey's cowl inductions on there, I'd stop and take a look.
But, it's all good, I know what you mean.

Several years back I saw a 1969 Full size wagon with a 427/425HP and an OEM factory cowl plenum setup and hide-away headlights and it did catch my eye!

Dean
Feb 13th, 06, 10:29 AM
Several years back I saw a 1969 Full size wagon with a 427/425HP and an OEM factory cowl plenum setup and hide-away headlights and it did catch my eye!

69 what?

hide away headlights, now that would be a rare option.

Joe Y
Feb 13th, 06, 10:49 AM
So my take is, if colder pressurized air doesn't make you faster, you've got work to do.

Greybeard has the ticket, no one thing is going to make your car that faster, it's all about being able to utilize everything effectively. More air needs more fuel needs better spark needs etc...

Jerry70
Feb 13th, 06, 10:03 PM
Greybeard has the ticket, no one thing is going to make your car that faster, it's all about being able to utilize everything effectively. More air needs more fuel needs better spark needs etc...

That was my experience with the cowl fed air cleaner on my `67. I put a factory unit on it in `68, hoping for lower et's. Cost then was about $100. Et's didn't change either way but I hadn't rejetted or made any other changes. Maybe it would have worked better if I had. I was going through the traps at about 115, which I doubt was fast enough to benefit much from any increased air pressure. With the vents open, the sound of the carb at WOT was awesome but so was the smell of gas fumes. I don't recall the size of the filter it used but it was much larger than stock. Back then the only source was GM and they cost triple what the standard 14x3 did and had to be special ordered. I ran the unit for several months but switched back to the stock air cleaner. I think I traded it for a used dual point distributor (which didn't improve anything either) :).

theclencher
Feb 13th, 06, 10:43 PM
"I think this" or "I think that" doesn't quite cut it.

I did see an article in Cycle World regarding ram air intakes, as they are incorporated on some sportbikes. "I think"... no, I recall them saying that the vehicle must be going well over 100 mph before any noticeable intake pressurization can occur. And, as someone stated earlier, it can make proper jetting a bear, to put it mildly.

If I find that article I will be sure to post an update.

66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE
Feb 14th, 06, 12:11 AM
Wow.. talk about beating a Dead Horse :confused:

This post went from a simple question about COWL PLENUM AIR CLEANERS, which is a very Specific and Unique Vintage High Performance over the counter part, and is shown on my 66 in the photo I enclosed.. to ramblings of Cowl Hoods, Cold Air Intakes, flappers, Homemade look alikes and now motorcycles :D Gotta love Team Chevelle!!

I stand by my original response as it pertains to the Original Question which was about the PART I show on my car here., and I will clarify it for those who misread what I said or even how I said it...

First and foremost.. anyone now days who is looking to buy this PART ( the one shown here and asked about ) is not buying it because they want to bring their car to the Track and get more HP of it.. nope, no way.. They are buying this PART for the LOOK! The Nostalgia and the guys buying them and they are, for $1800 are putting them on Cars they SHOW or Plan to SHOW.. not daily drivers.. why? for that "LOOK" that Nostalgia Look and that other LOOK.. yeah, you know the one.. it's that LOOK you get when you pop the hood at the SHOW, That LOOK from everyone who has never seen one!! It's that "WOW!!, that's Cool!" LOOK.

Can you buy one for $500 that works under the same general principal? or can you Buiild one that will work under the same general principal? SURE, absolutely! BUT... will you get that LOOK?? Nope, not IMO.. you will get "A LOOK" but most likley it will be a Rolled Eyes Look.. the one that comes with a head shake as they chuckle and keep on walking by.. You can try and make a Cowl Plenum.. and if it's for the purpose of increasing your HP, then by all means, build one or buy one that cost $500.. you might even get some increased HP... but the question was about a COWL PLENUM AIR CLEANER, not a Hood, not an intake and nothing else! So my reply was to EDUCATE by letting the gentlemen know from the get go... this item is being reproduced, it is a VERY EXCELLENT reproduction, so much so that most wouldn't know it from an original....and that it Costs $1800.. so, I said, if you are buying it because you think you will increase your HP.. forget about it... meaning not worth it, that I think we all agree on... and yes, I said and meant.. that by just buying this $1800 Cowl Plenum Air Cleaner and putting it on your car.. you won't see an increased HP of significance...

later

MC

Dean
Feb 14th, 06, 12:12 AM
These debates are always interesting but also always seem to get side tracked into something else. (as do most topics) :(
It's like the game we use to play called "secret" where all us kids sat in a circle and whispered a word into the next person's ear and when it got to the last person it would be something totally different.

Debate is/was about wheather a particular design cowl plenum plenum air cleaner is worth $1,800.00 just for the sole purpose of increasing performance.

Not NASCAR systems or home brewed systems or the theory or if there would be ANY increase at all or bla bla bla.

:D

theclencher
Feb 14th, 06, 1:40 AM
I was told some one is reproducing this induction set-up .I also read a posting form someone who made his own for $500. If any one has information about these two sources please let me know.
rlkreut

This was pretty much answered by the time we hit post #4. Well done MC.

"Debate is/was about wheather a particular design cowl plenum plenum air cleaner is worth $1,800.00 just for the sole purpose of increasing performance."

Original poster never articulated about whether he was after looks or performance. That was all us- which is fine by me. This stuff oftentimes gets interesting in ways the original post did not intend.

Dean
Feb 14th, 06, 8:55 AM
This was pretty much answered by the time we hit post #4. Well done MC.

"Debate is/was about wheather a particular design cowl plenum plenum air cleaner is worth $1,800.00 just for the sole purpose of increasing performance."

Original poster never articulated about whether he was after looks or performance. That was all us- which is fine by me. This stuff oftentimes gets interesting in ways the original post did not intend.


HOW TRUE, the debate didn't start til post #5

Dan Orgill
Feb 14th, 06, 12:33 PM
If I had $1800.00 US, I would buy one, as the " cool " factor is right up there in my book.

Clint44
Feb 14th, 06, 4:05 PM
Nelson does do beautiful work,no question. Right now,I can't justify or afford paying $1800 for an air cleaner assy. Why couldn't I have been born rich,instead of handsome? :D :D

Bowtieguys
Feb 14th, 06, 4:33 PM
Can you buy one for $500 that works under the same general principal? or can you Buiild one that will work under the same general principal? SURE, absolutely! BUT... will you get that LOOK?? Nope, not IMO.. you will get "A LOOK" but most likley it will be a Rolled Eyes Look.. the one that comes with a head shake as they chuckle and keep on walking by..

Mike, I totally agree. It boils down to this: If you want a unique looking air cleaner that was GM available (dealer)...you pay the money. If you want to use drier hose in a homemade ram air unit, you might get more hp, but you won't get the effect of having a rare item. I also agree with your comment about buying it for a daily driver. Most of the guys whining over the price are not building the type of cars to justify the cost. Why would you put a $1800 air cleaner on a car that has a $45 Grant steering wheel and B&M shifter in it? You know what I mean? I know a guy in NC that still has an NOS set up for $3500. I always considered buying it becuase of the rarity, but now Nelson's perfect looking $1800 units look more enticing.

Dan Orgill
Feb 14th, 06, 4:38 PM
Nelson does do beautiful work,no question. Right now,I can't justify or afford paying $1800 for an air cleaner assy. Why couldn't I have been born rich,instead of handsome? :D :D

LOL, you can always improve your work situation or rob a bank, but you can't fix ugly!

Professor_SS
Feb 14th, 06, 4:52 PM
Jeff


and sure, if someone has a daily driver or the like, I wouldn't think they would be in the market to spend $1800 for a cowl Plenum... just like you don't wear a Rolex and sneakers ;)

I used to work for this crazy older lady that wore a rolex with Keds, the canvas ones. She would also sport a few hundred thousand in diamonds with jeans. My favorite was tooling around in her 356 with her dressed in patched jeans with a designer top, worth more than my weekly take home, and hand crafted Italian heels and matching bag. She used to fly to Italy ever year to be fitted and get the latest fashion in foot wear and hand bags.

1966_L78
Feb 14th, 06, 5:44 PM
I used to work for this crazy older lady that wore a rolex with Keds, the canvas ones. She would also sport a few hundred thousand in diamonds with jeans. My favorite was tooling around in her 356 with her dressed in patched jeans with a designer top, worth more than my weekly take home, and hand crafted Italian heels and matching bag. She used to fly to Italy ever year to be fitted and get the latest fashion in foot wear and hand bags.
Yeah, I knew a lady, heir of some large insurance company, husband developed shopping malls, two houses in San Francisco area, plus their own winery and an estate in Hawaii, Poll Royce and newer Mercedes in the Garage... R I C H!!! But the husband drove an older late 60=s/early 70's mercedes 4-door, and the lady drove a late 60's Buick Electra (and pretty weathered looking shape)...


Yeah, there have been alot of "discussions" lately... The problem is some people are only thinking "maximum performance" and others are thinking "better than stock" or "original"...

Can't wait until Spring...

67RAT
Feb 14th, 06, 8:21 PM
After reading this thread here is my view of the topic--

$1800 is a lot of money for a small horsepower gain!! A horsepower gain you will not feel in the seat of your pants under heavy throttle-and might not even give you .01 in the quarter mile.

I can find a more cost effective way to make horsepower out of 1800 bucks!!!

Now for the nostalgic look,these inductions cant be beat--this is the kind of parts that make you get goose bumps and raise up the hair on the back of your neck! COOL FACTOR IS 100%-least in my book.

now we all know cooler air makes horsepower,and that every,and I mean every little bit counts-to me anyway--but there are better ways to get cool air to the carb--thunderbolt style air indution is a very good one-probly better than the cowl induction talked about here.

so now I have another thing to see at shows and the track that I can say--ahhhhhh-must have bought one of those from that guy that repros them--

does that make it uncool--NO--I love seeing stuff like this on late 60 musclecars.

heck-I have header turnouts on my chevelle mostly for that nostalgic 60s look!!!
this would be a nice addition--

my final thought
these are neat--slight horsepower gain-underhood look is awsome-price is to high-will get attention for sure ,good thing to talk about while staring at it during a beer,some folks wont know what it is(thats always cool)
would I spend the cash for one? YES--but would not think it would make my chevelle a new found street terror--by no means----67rat BOB HETRICK

Clint44
Feb 14th, 06, 8:57 PM
One thing about these air cleaner set-ups,,you won't have to worry about seeing them as often as a pair of Cragar SS wheels. :D
Exclusivity(sp) is its own reward.

Bowtieguys
Feb 14th, 06, 9:31 PM
Well said 67 rat. I agree!

Sparke60
Feb 16th, 06, 4:07 PM
This cowl setup is discussed in the March 2006 issue of Super Chevy in Chevelle tech talk. The author states that these are being reproduced for about $200. Sounds reasonable to me.
Mike Farabee

jpete
Feb 16th, 06, 5:11 PM
This cowl setup is discussed in the March 2006 issue of Super Chevy in Chevelle tech talk. The author states that these are being reproduced for about $200. Sounds reasonable to me.
Mike Farabee
Go back a couple pages and you'll see that the $200 figure was a misprint. The cost is $1800.

Mark 502
Feb 16th, 06, 6:00 PM
I sure like mine!!

Mark

1966_L78
Feb 16th, 06, 6:44 PM
so now I have another thing to see at shows and the track that I can say--ahhhhhh-must have bought one of those from that guy that repros them--

does that make it uncool--NO--I love seeing stuff like this on late 60 musclecars.


Just because its rare and on a car, doesn't mean its a repro... I have seen several originals over the years, but no repros (in person).


I'd love to have one of these, maybe someday... But for now, $1800 will go along way toward other things on the car...

I guess its a small market, but I honestly wonder when (and why not already) some repro company will step up with a "Chinese" version for $199... Don't get me wrong, I realize that you often "get what you pay for", but for any car short of a "perfectly" restored car, that $1800 is huge, especially since most of the people looking at it are going to say "wow" anyway, and those people won't know the difference between the $199 or the $1800 version anyway...

67RAT
Feb 16th, 06, 7:34 PM
[QUOTE=1966_L78]Just because its rare and on a car, doesn't mean its a repro...

your right--BUT- before they were remade if ya seen one you could be almost sure it was real--now they will be a dime a dozen--that was my point--jmo bob hetrick

66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE
Feb 16th, 06, 9:39 PM
Don't get me wrong, I realize that you often "get what you pay for", but for any car short of a "perfectly" restored car, that $1800 is huge, especially since most of the people looking at it are going to say "wow" anyway, and those people won't know the difference between the $199 or the $1800 version anyway...

Well.. as much as $1800 SEEMS to be.. prior to Nelson building these... IF you found an Original one, it was usually in sad shape and missing the duct or some other essential part and even then it was costly!!! or if you found an NOS one.. you would be lucky to get it for $3000 plus dollars... so, when you look at that way, $1800 is pocket change.. least that is how I looked at it, I could never justify paying $3000 for a Plenum, cool or original to my car or not.. BUT, when I had the opportunity to see the REPRO. and put it side by side with a TRUE Original and compared them ripple for ripple, staple for staple and not to mention the Repro fits better!!.. I stepped up, and was actually First in line.. well, okay, nobody was behind me, but :p

Mike

jpete
Feb 16th, 06, 9:42 PM
The only time I could see paying that much for a repro part was if the car was originally equipped with it and the OE one was missing or destroyed beyond repair. I think we've established the performance advantage is debatable so the "look" is the only thing that remains. And you can buy a lot of chrome for $1800.

68KMENO
Feb 16th, 06, 10:07 PM
I think the repro thing is great ... makes something avaible that wouldn't be to many of us little cash guys :) but then I'd never spend 1800 on chrome anyway ........... ;)

charbilly2001
Apr 25th, 06, 12:54 AM
Wouldent there be a good chance of having a fuel smell in the car? Having the cars ventalation and the carb breathe from the same source. No big deal on a race car, but....


No. I think that you are tapping into the area where your windshield wipers are. Thats not gonna put gas fumes into your car.

Then again I have never had a cowl induction on a chevelle. My 70 LS6 didn't get that option. They wanted $107 and change back then. Based on a quick mental cost/benefit ratio calc I did back then I said no. Same as I would today for $1800. Just not worth the benefit especially when I consider all the other things I could do to my Chevelle for that kinda cash.

If you are Mr. Money bags and you want a 10 tenths car then its for you.

DZAUTO
Apr 25th, 06, 1:33 AM
I'm not a money bags, but I GOT TO HAVE Cowl Induction!!!!!!!!!
I special ordered a 72 in Mar 72 with the CI hood and gave it up in a divorce in 75.
I bought a 70 in 98 without CI and spent about $1300 (in 98), including painting the hood, for a COMPLETE CI system---------------I mean every little piece. For me, $1300 was a LOT of money in 98, it still is! But, I wanted CI, so I bought it.
So, I can understand that if someone wanted a Cowl Plenum setup for a 66-69, it might be worth $1800 to them. I can easily relate. And, on top of that, it may never see the strip. So what! Cowl Plenum air cleaners are about as cool as they come. The only other car that I can think of that may be cooler with a Cowl Plenum air cleaner is a Z-11--------------------------------------but fat chance of ever owning one of those!!!!!!!!!!!!

Robinls5
Apr 25th, 06, 2:16 AM
I was at a car show at D. E. I. Ed Pentia was also there. We al got a tour of the garage mahall. At one building in the back across the driveway from the Dale, jrs shop. In this building, A young engineer--His job 50 weeks a year is to get 1 to 3 Horsepower on plate engines by playing with exhaust headers.
The room is temp. control---Humd control--Car is run by a computer--Looks like a NASA workshop. Also some items found on production cars were produced in numbers and sold to the public so it could called a FACTORY PRODUCTION PART if it was done in this fashion it would be considered an over the counter part. Did Chrysler build the winged daytonas to sell to mom and dad.? After you build a given number of cars THEN its a factory unit. NOW you can RACE them. A lot of items found on 60s--70s cars were there so it could be called a factory item. Without the COMPLETE PACKAGE This Air cleaner on a street machine is about as useless as T**S on a bore hog.
Also when SMOKEY built race cars he did not worry about wipers and heater parts being in the way of his build. This air cleaner is for flat out racing, just my thoughts I may be wrong but then again, How would this air cleaner work if you are driving 55-60 in a thunderstorm!! In Motor sports the most CUBIC dollars have an edge. Bob ACES 2825

66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE
Apr 25th, 06, 9:55 AM
Bob.. I didn't know you ever posted here?

DEI... we may have been part of the First and Last there.. or so it seems!! But wayyy cool being there and showing Chevelles with best of best! :thumbsup:

Sparke60
Apr 25th, 06, 11:36 AM
Cold air induction whether cowl or ducted somewhere from the front isn't only for race cars. Lift the hood on any newer car or truck & check out the intake tract. While some aren't as efficient as they could be, they are all trying to pull in cooler air.
Mike

Robinls5
Apr 25th, 06, 9:07 PM
On my 03 Silverado the engine air enters via right front fender, Using a double panel to pick up outside air. YES outside is cooler. The high pressure area on a windshield is from the base to about 9-10" up the glass. With a plenum style air entry, The faster the ground speed the more cu. ft. or air to the carb. Trivia-- look real close at a nextel cup car at Daytona during a pit stop. When they leave the pits they put out a lot of Black smoke. Why?
Could it be his ground speed is not high enough to use the effect of the plenum, and he is running very rich. He leaves spinning the tires and keeps the rpm,s high. no chance of fouling a plug. With the plenum the cup cars are jetted for 180-195mph. With the plenum providing XXX amount of air. At 190-200 mph I do not know the air pressure created at that speed. I has to be god awful high due to fact they run straps on the inside of the glass so it will not blow in. This is where the plenum is paramount. JMO. Bob
ACES 2825

MarkM
Jun 15th, 06, 1:57 PM
Like Tom said this is way more than how much does it improve performance , it's all about a rare GM original performance part that was avaialble for some Chevelles also for those of us who were around when these Chevelles raced with this part that was designed by an icon the price is not the point ...BTW a real surviving or NOS unit is worth far !! more ..

.. ya ya you can build a version cheaper or better but it will never be a GM Cowl plenum AC .... For those who comment on how well they add HP or not .before you do might be an idea to ask someone who actually had one on their car !! Mike"s info is correct he had one !! and on a his car I'm sure it did nothing for HP ( also mike never has his car over 50mph anyway :) from experience I can tell you Smokey had a great idea but it was not the best config ........yes Nascar still uses them but if you look they don't pull air from the left side they pull air from the center ......these original CP units pulled air right over the headers and are made of sheet metal .......the Intake Air temp at low or even drag race speeds do not get lowered enought to make measurable gains Nascar speeds now the thats different ....... now if you wrapped it or made it of a material that deflected the heat ...yes the theory works especially for drag racing with computer controlled cars IAT controls the timing ..... for those who have made homemade ones ( or even the store bot ones) check you IAT compared to ambient and if you see a 10* drop then you have done something,
sori for the rant but when a member asks for info on a topic and someone with the part gives their opinion then it seems some with no knowledge of the part in question start challenging the feedback or picking apart the dialog ........ remeber what the question was!!! also yes these CP units can and do transmit a gas smell in the interior ,especially at idle at least on early Chevelles

Just an FYI. On Smokeys race car '66 Chevelle, that intake didn't just pull air from above the heater core. It also had a duct that also pulled air from the firewall, on the left side (when looking from drivers sear) of the distributor.

Mark 502
Jun 15th, 06, 4:01 PM
I have one of the quality reproductions on the market now and find it solved a number of heat related problems. I live in the desert where a typical summer day can get to 110 degress. With an open or closed element air cleaner the engine at heat (200-205) with a/c on would detonate with any throtle. The engine would become sluggish just like any Hi Po engine with heat. Also when shut off the carb would heatsoak and fuel would boil or if left long enough it would evaporate. With the new cold air cowl system all those problems are gone. Also I don't get any fuel smell in the drivers compartment. I suspect there are a few that are installed incorrectly with the seal at the firewall leaking. The reproduction units air intake tube at the firewall are made of carbon fiber. They reflect heat much better than the factory original units and you can't tell it apart from the steel ones. All in all I'm very happy with the unit and the cold air effect does wonders for the 502 in this dry and hot region. I haven't done any scientific research on ambiet temps or the like but I have been around long enough to recognize the diference. It's a great unit.

Derek69SS
Jun 15th, 06, 6:22 PM
These work, and I've got proof!

http://images1.snapfish.com/346%3C972%3C5%7Ffp344%3Enu%3D3285%3E553%3E%3A%3A%3 B%3EWSNRCG%3D32337%3B92%3C2694nu0mrj

*note* Dyno Chart stolen from another forum... thought it was funny, and it fit in this topic well :D

Clint44
Jun 16th, 06, 1:46 AM
I have one of the quality reproductions on the market now and find it solved a number of heat related problems. I live in the desert where a typical summer day can get to 110 degress. With an open or closed element air cleaner the engine at heat (200-205) with a/c on would detonate with any throtle. The engine would become sluggish just like any Hi Po engine with heat. Also when shut off the carb would heatsoak and fuel would boil or if left long enough it would evaporate. With the new cold air cowl system all those problems are gone. Also I don't get any fuel smell in the drivers compartment. I suspect there are a few that are installed incorrectly with the seal at the firewall leaking. The reproduction units air intake tube at the firewall are made of carbon fiber. They reflect heat much better than the factory original units and you can't tell it apart from the steel ones. All in all I'm very happy with the unit and the cold air effect does wonders for the 502 in this dry and hot region. I haven't done any scientific research on ambiet temps or the like but I have been around long enough to recognize the diference. It's a great unit.

Did you purchase yours from Nelson? If not,who fabricated it? Can you post a photo or two? Price?
I want one of these a bunch but have many more pressing things to buy for my car,first.

Mark 502
Jun 16th, 06, 11:26 AM
Yes, I did purchase it from Nelson. I don't know of anybody else who makes one. Some have posted an opinion that you could make one easily. I doubt that very much if your looking for a piece that duplicates the original and looks stock. He puts in many hours in each unit and has made molds for the carbon fiber piece. Somewhere in another on the same subject I did post a pic. Do a search and you will find it!

Mark

Mark 502
Jun 16th, 06, 11:29 AM
Correction: Clint44 The pic of the air cleaner is on page four of this post

Mark

1966_L78
Jun 16th, 06, 1:40 PM
Did you purchase yours from Nelson? If not,who fabricated it? Can you post a photo or two? Price?
I want one of these a bunch but have many more pressing things to buy for my car,first.

Nelsons product is great IF you want something that looks absolutely stock/original...

There are many cheaper products out there for those only interested in the performance aspects (cooler air. etc)...

I would think someone "could" build something that looked relatively "stock" with a small amount of money and some fabrication skills...

Don't get me wrong, its NOT going to fool experts, but probably get something decent that would look close to "stock"... At samller local cruise-ins and shows, there might not be anyone that actually could spot the differences (since the originals and repros are few and far between)...

I have thought of building one (maybe getting a duct from Nelson) for my Dual-Quad setup...

Slowpoke70
Jun 16th, 06, 2:16 PM
"The Look" you get from people isn't only found at Car Shows. Visit the drag races in your area and you'll see people giving the "Look" when someone pops the hood on a car and they see something different. These guys may not care if it looks like the original, they might think it is a cool way to go faster because "every little bit counts".

I like going to the drags and finding a mild engine in a car that has every speed trick in the book, then watching it click off surprising numbers.

Clint44
Jun 16th, 06, 2:40 PM
I'd like to duplicate Nelson's set-up in carbon fiber and sell them to serious A-body owners. Probably not enough demand,though.

SS_Dave
Jun 16th, 06, 2:48 PM
These work, and I've got proof!

http://images1.snapfish.com/346%3C972%3C5%7Ffp344%3Enu%3D3285%3E553%3E%3A%3A%3 B%3EWSNRCG%3D32337%3B92%3C2694nu0mrj

*note* Dyno Chart stolen from another forum... thought it was funny, and it fit in this topic well :D



Now that there is funny!
I don't care who you are.

gitter-done :D

hrd
Jun 17th, 06, 2:48 PM
i didnt read all the posts in this thread but, the ones i did read failed to mention smokeys application, wasnt this setup on his 66 stock car?...im sure that theres a world of difference when yer goin 175 (or whatever) constantly as compared to hitting 120 top end (or whatever) that said, fresh pressurized air cant be a bad thing can it?...isnt that what turbos, roots type blowers and even nitrous are all about?...i say if you want it, go for it, it certainly cant hurt, though theres probably cheaper and ez'r ways to gain 10 - 20 hp (depending how fast yer goin already)...i personally just built a homade cowl induction hood and i cant believe the stuff i see sucked up against the screen, just loppin' along you see a leaf hit the hood then slide up and almost hit the windshield before takin a "magic bullet" slam into the screen, you can bet if smokey used it, it worked