Anybody have experience with this paint? I saw a very nice vette
today that the guy said they used Matrix on and it looked really nice.
Price looks good too. I use ppg mainly but its really costly and this
stuff looks as good. I would like to know if anyone has shot this
paint and how long ago. Looking for wear & tear type info.

Chuck

Chuck,

I have been using this stuff off and on for the past year. I have been a BIG fan of PPG (mainly Global) for many years. Matrix has been coming on strong for the past severaly years.....started out selling mainly "replacement" products for other paint lines, such as toners and hardeners. Now they have a full product line.

As the owner of a paint & collision repair center, a smaller one at that, I was getting sick and tired of the BIG paint companies relentless price increases. And that's a subject I could write a book about. They have been blaming it on rising fuel and raw materials costs for years, and I can go along with that to a degree.....but the past couple of years it's nothing but gouging and an attempt to do away with the smaller Mom & Pop shops....that's my opinion, and there's lots of evidence to support my opinion, another subject for a book.
As for the Matrix line....it's a VERY decent product. Of course Matrix comes to the table saying that their product is IDENTICAL to the comparison product, be it PPG Deltron, Dupont, or House of Kolors.....it's not....close, but not.

I'll list some products and compare them.

Primers:
Matrix epoxies vs. PPG's DPLF epoxies. PPG is the company that started the whole deal with laying down your epoxy then applying body filler over the top of that. But now, with that procedure being so inconsistent as far as the body filler adhering to the epoxy, PPG will back off that suggestion and tell you that best procedure is filler directly to bare metal. I WILL NOT PUT body filler over PPG epoxy any more....some times it sticks, sometimes it doesn't. However, there are times ( over a welded seam ) that I like that process.....Matrix's epoxy is THE STUFF for this application. Spray one full coat of the Matrix epoxy, let that sit overnight, then apply your filler over that, I'll even lightly scuff the epoxy with 80 grit first. The Matrix epoxy actually gets hard, unlike PPG's epoxys which are very gummy. When you start sanding the filler, the Matrix epoxy will feather and sand right along with the filler.
One thing that I still do like best about the PPG DPLF 90 (black) is I like to use it on frames, undercarriages, etc. It is tuff and chemical resistant and has a very nice look to it, a sating look that can be perfectly touched up with Krylon Semi-Flat black. The Matrix black epoxy does not have the same look...it much flatter and chalkier in a appearance. The Matrix epoxies also do not spray as nice as the DP's...but I don't care about that for the purpose I am going to use them for.

Primer Surfacers:
I have used Matrix's 2KPB (buff in color, not yellow) and MP3HS (gray). I like them both, however I think I might like the MP3HS better....it is VERY similar to PPG K38. I sprays nice and sands good both dry and wet. That's the only thing I may not like as well with the 2KPB, it doesn't seem to water sand as easily...it dry sands fine, even with 320.

Color Coats:
Matrix MR series reducers vs. PPG DT reducers. No reason not to use the MR reducers and pocket that $15. PER GALLON you are going to save over the PPG DT reducer. I will say this, it is my experience that the Matrix MR reducers are faster than the comparable PPG DT reducer, i.e. MR885 acts more like DT870, MR895 acts more like DT885. See what you think, I may have done huffed too many tail solvents.

Matrix MPB B/C vs. PPG DBC b/c.......again ABSOLUTELY NO REASON not use the Matrix and save that 30-40 PERCENT. The color match is there, all colors are there...even the new Xyrillic pearls are there. Spray the MPB base and your not gonna know the difference compared to the DBC.

Clears:
Matrix MS42 vs. PPG DCU2021. The MS42 is a nice clear. I use the MH006 hardener (mix is 2:1) slow.....the MH005 (medium) does not flow out as nice, again, that's something you'll have to play with in your own shop to see what's going to work for you....I use the 006 (slow) in everything.
Compared to the DCU2021......the 2021 is a nicer clear....sprays easier and just has a better SPRAYED look.
This subject is still a toss up for me. For everyday repairs and general all-over paint jobs, I go with the MS42 hands down......I pay for a gallon of Matrix clear and 2 qts. of hardener what I pay for only the gallon of 2021 clear.....tack on another $70. or so dollars for the DCX61 catalyst and another $15. or so dollars for the qt. of DT reducer.....go figure. You are going to save approx. $100. per gallon setup of clear using the Matrix....and that's getting the SAME sprayable quantities (Matrix 2:1 vs. PPG 4:1:1 ; they both come out to 6 sprayable qts.) so PPG can't use their number crunching, sales pitching bull**** to say that "you have to compare sprayble ounce per sprayable ounce".
However, there are a few jobs that come thru the door that I will use the 2021 clear on.
Not that the MS42 is not a good looking clear, it is. Most people probably aren't even going to notice or see the difference in the appearance.

I will say this about the Matrix....it seems to have better chip resistance....talking about gravel chips along the front edges of hoods and fenders.

I'm gonna quit now, didn't mean to write a book. Hope some of all this mumbo jumbo is useful to ya and will be glad to see if I can answer any further questions.

Shannon

Thank you Shannon!

I do have a good bit of experience with ppg's bc/cc & concept but the local
dealer has changed over to Dupont and I have tried some and its ok but I'm
not sold on it. So when another supply shop (standard autobody, http://www.standardautobody.com/) was pushing Matrix I wanted to know
more as the owner there is a very well versed guy and he's never stirred me
the wrong way. I did notice on the vette that the clear was not quite as
clear as 2021 but I brushed that off to the FG body so I'm glad to know that.
Sounds like a good plan, I did buy a quart of the Matrix black epoxy so I'll
go ahead and play with that.

Again thanks for the incite:D
Chuck

I used their clears and primers when they first came out and no one ever heard of them. I guess around 1998. I bought them from a mobile distributor who sold the products out of his van. I mainly used it on used car dealers vehicles who did not pay enough to use the good stuff, so i used the Matrix which was about $80 per sprayble gallon then.Then ended up using it exclusively. They were good then and i bet they are even better now. Havent used it in quite a while just because of lack of availability.
Shannon i have to agree with you on your theory of paint prices. I guess someone has to pay for the Nascar sponserships.

Shannon, what a great, level headed post. I have never used the Matrix products, so I can't say a thing. But after reading your post, I know something about the product. It wasn't BS product bashing, without any facts to back it up. Just good old emotionless FACTS.

Thanks!

Brian

p.s. On the big boy pricing, I was a paint rep for S-W when these "value lines" were introduced (OMNI, NASON and of course Dimension) by the big boys to compete with the likes of Matrix who were getting a bite of the market. These lines were NOT suppose to do what they have done (loose market share from the top end lines) but they REALLY took off didn't they!

I KNOW that some of the "value line" products WERE the top end products with a different label on them. I KNOW this as fact. So buying the "value line" products at half the price got you the same stuff in the can in some cases!!!

I also know that some of the "value line" products were junk and not even close to the upper end stuff. HOWEVER, the line between them (since I left the rep business five years ago) has gotten more and more blurred.

I think the "value line" products (be it OMNI from PPG or an independent like Transtar) have REALLY been stepped up in quality.

Shannon, what a great, level headed post. I have never used the Matrix products, so I can't say a thing. But after reading your post, I know something about the product. It wasn't BS product bashing, without any facts to back it up. Just good old emotionless FACTS.

Thanks!

Brian

p.s. On the big boy pricing, I was a paint rep for S-W when these "value lines" were introduced (OMNI, NASON and of course Dimension) by the big boys to compete with the likes of Matrix who were getting a bite of the market. These lines were NOT suppose to do what they have done (loose market share from the top end lines) but they REALLY took off didn't they!

I KNOW that some of the "value line" products WERE the top end products with a different label on them. I KNOW this as fact. So buying the "value line" products at half the price got you the same stuff in the can in some cases!!!

I also know that some of the "value line" products were junk and not even close to the upper end stuff. HOWEVER, the line between them (since I left the rep business five years ago) has gotten more and more blurred.

I think the "value line" products (be it OMNI from PPG or an independent like Transtar) have REALLY been stepped up in quality.

It sounds just like Pheonix with a S-W label. I think Standox and Spies-Hecker did the same thing. One was cheaper then the other, but I suspect often times the same base coat material. I could be wrong. By the way, who was your area manager for S-W? Was it possibly Sal (Italian something) or Curt Hammond or Chuck? Do you possibly remember any of these rep. : Albert Nino or John Whailey or Tom Brandscom? Tech Reps: Danny & Carlos? Small industry sometimes!
Thanks,
Dave

Dave, I was on the Martin Senour side so other than Kurt (cowboy kurt :)) I don't recognize any others. Kurt was my regional manager for a while. I still see him now and again because the shop I work at is an S-W user.

Brian

Brian, I beleive that is the same Kurt that I remember. Talks with a heavy accent. I think he just relocated to Denver from Utah. We have been a S/W user off & on for the last 12 years. Have you always worked in the city? Or were you ever in the San Jose/Sunnyvale area? If you you are ever down in my neck of the woods come by and I will take you to lunch and show you the Chevelles and the body shop.
See Ya,
Dave