Does anybody have a list of required stuff a true documented LS6, chevelle came with, when it was built at the factory?

Examples:

A true LS6 chevelle had:

1) 6500 rpm tach
2) no A/C
3) Disc brakes
4) 454 450hp engine-solid lifter cam, aluminum intake, Holley carb.

any others?

From the index, click RESTO SHOP, then identifing super sport. Lots of info there.

6500 RPM tach was not standard, it was optional as were all the other gauges. They either had an M22 or TH400, not available with M21. The gear ratio shold be either 3.73 or 4.10. They were all fitted with AIR injection for polution control, deep groove pulleys, 7 blade clutch fan with part number ending in 772 I think it is, and some other things I can't think of right now because I'm tired and having brain farts.

Hi actually in 1970 all SS chevelles except L78 cars came with 3:31 non posi. It was an option to have posi. Also 4:10 was an option which only came in posi. The L78 cars all had 3:55 gears. All the SS chevelles had different lower control A arms with circular bushings and a different steering column knuckle. You will see this on the build sheets as well. All SS cars had 12 bolts with the F41 option. Boxed lower control arms with a rear sway bar. There is also 2 frame stiffeners that go from the upper rear control arms to the frame. Also the front sway bar was bigger 1 1/16 inches. All came with power front disk brakes. The dash would be the one with circles not the sweep dash. Gauges was an option. The base SS modle had the idiot light dash. Also having a clock was an option. On monte carlo's though a clock was standard on every car. Also of course the front clear lenses and back SS pad and dual exhaust with chrome tips. SS magnum wheels. SS emblems on the door panels. Although some documented early SS chevelles had malibu door panel emblems. The functional cowl induction hood was also an option and not standard with any of the SS motor combinations. You also could only have stripe delete on a non functional cowl induction hood. All cowl induction hoods had stripes. Also for 1970 non functional hoods didn't come with hood pins but 1971 and 1972 non functional had hood pins. All 3 years with functional cowl induction had hood pins. etc etc All this applies to LS6's as well. You also should note the fuel lines are different from small block to big block. Good luck!

My 70 LS6 Chevelle with THE original motor and M22 has Malibu emblems on THE original door panels, one which still has about 3/4 ths of one of the build sheets attached. It also came with 3.31 posi. My LS6 El Camino, also with THE original drivetrain had 4.10's.

I'm guessin' that with the "actually in 1970 all SS chevelles except L78 cars came with 3:31 non posi." statement you're only referring to additional availability, rather than excluding the rest.

Hi I'm referring to all SS base models in 1970 came with 3:31 non posi. The posi was an option as well as the 4:10 posi was an option. You could get no other gear options from the factory in 1970 except if it was an L78 car. 1971 came with all sorts of options for gear combinations.

You also could only have stripe delete on a non functional cowl induction hood. All cowl induction hoods had stripes.
You are wrong on this.Stripes were standard on cowl induction cars but could be deleted.You had to order stripes on non cowl cars as they came standard without hence there is no such thing as a non cowl car with stripe delete.It just wasn't ordered with the D88 option.

There is also 2 frame stiffeners that go from the upper rear control arms to the frame.

These were on some non SS cars also, so they are not an indication of the car being an SS.

All SS cars had 12 bolts with the F41 option. Boxed lower control arms with a rear sway bar. There is also 2 frame stiffeners that go from the upper rear control arms to the frame. Also the front sway bar was bigger 1 1/16 inches. Not sure if you're including El Caminos in that statement. If you are, then it's not true. My El Camino SS does not have F41, nor does it have the large sway bar.

Funny when a question is asked about one particluar car you start getting answers about what OTHER cars had.

:confused:

All SS cars had F41 and sway bars?? all 454s came with M-22s or 400 auto ?? better check your facts guys, wasnt till after 70 did the M-22 become standard with the 454 car, and as far as I know, the F41 was and option in 70,

Funny when a question is asked about one particluar car you start getting answers about what OTHER cars had.

:confused: Was that directed at me?

The question was concerning LS6 cars...

They all either had a M22 4spd or a M40 code "CY" which denoted 6 bolt converter and high shift points. They will have either a single 3/8" fuel line if early build, up through March 1970 or a 3/8" line and a fuel return line when the change to the longer fuel pump. All LS6's will not have a/c as this wasn't available with the car. The only available factory ratios are 3:31 or 4:10 either posi or not..although all 4:10 gears I think required posi. As far as options..gauges, buckets, CI hood, etc. don't signify a LS6 or not. If the car has a tach it will be a 6500 redline unit. The driveshafts of 454 cars and subsequently LS6's are larger than non-454 cars and use a heavier duty flange. LS6's were "SS" cars so any required options for a "SS" should also be present on LS6 cars as well. Until someone provides concrete proof of an earlier LS6, the car should be built after 12B as well.

There is a great article written by Jeff Dotterer and Brian Edwards that was featured in the NCOA's magazine and in Musclecar Review in the early 1990's. Hope this helps

Greg

Was that directed at me?

No, not really Keith, just seems like it always happens.

Someone asks a question about a specific year/model Chevelle and someone replies "they were green on a 41 FORD".

:D

Greg,
Good information but unless I am wrong, the 454 shafts are slightly smaller in diameter than the 396 shafts. The rear flanges are larger but not the shafts. This is readily apparent by the slight neck down on the 454 vs the more apparent ones on the 396. If I recall my written information at home, the shaft length is also very slightly different. If I have been wrong this all these years, I am in BIG trouble!
Rick

Rick,

I'm sure you are correct..my mistake..sorry guys..I know the flange is larger which is the area to look at..The thought here, just like with the M22 and specifically the larger shafted, new for 1970 M22, related to 454 torque output.


Greg

So, wat your saying is that a 70 LS-6 car could not be ordered with an M-21 ??

Correct, Th400 or M-22 3.31 open or Posi, 4.10 open or Posi.

You get into some subtle nuances as well like no heat shield under the carb Etc. which is found on the LS5 I believe.

I do not know about the shaft sizes themselves but I went through h*ll getting the correct u-joints for my '72 ss 454 car.

So, wat your saying is that a 70 LS-6 car could not be ordered with an M-21 ??

Nick,

I have never seen a legit LS6 with anything other than a "CY" coded TH400 or a large shaft M22. I spoke to a GM engineer back in the mid 1990's when I worked for a large Chevrolet dealer, as their performanace car manager, about this. He said the reason for the switch to the larger "improved" shaft design was to accomodate the additonal torque of the 454 engine. He was more directly working in Corvettes, which the dealer I worked for was known (Hechler Chevrolet..ZL1 'vette fame) for. He also mentioned that one of the reasons for the LS6 mid year introduction was this was the first time Chevrolet was putting their racing experience into a true production big block engine..hence there was a lot of concern for reliability issues.

I do not know about the shaft sizes themselves but I went through h*ll getting the correct u-joints for my '72 ss 454 car.


see what I mean :D

You get into some subtle nuances as well like no heat shield under the carb Etc. which is found on the LS5 I believe.

Heat shields were used on California (and possibly Nevada) delivered cars only with the canister system regardless of engine size.

..... Also having a clock was an option. On monte carlo's though a clock was standard on every car.

..... SS emblems on the door panels. Although some documented early SS chevelles had malibu door panel emblems.

..... You also could only have stripe delete on a non functional cowl induction hood. All cowl induction hoods had stripes.


not true - Clock was standard with U14 gage package option
not true - Most 454 cars came w/ Malibu emblems
not true - D88 stripes were an option on the standard SS hood - You can't delete an option, you can only chosse not to add it! - D88 strips they came standard with the cowl induction and COULD deleted!

hey Dean.....At least I was talking about a 454 car not some 41 Ford

Not sure if you're including El Caminos in that statement. If you are, then it's not true. My El Camino SS does not have F41, nor does it have the large sway bar.

Yup! F41 was not available - it was incompatable with the standard air shock system that came on the EC.

Heat shields were used on California (and possibly Nevada) delivered cars only with the canister system regardless of engine size.

I remembered this clearly from the assembly manual because I looked at it before trying to figure out if I needed a heat shield.

As I look again I now realize what I remembered looking at was the Evaporative emission control Drawing. However, they list all the engine RPO's but not the LS6.

Maybe because the assembly manual was printed prior to LS6 release?

I'm batting 1000 lately.

(I'll catch up with you eventually Rick) :)

You guys are very knowledgeable.

He also mentioned that one of the reasons for the LS6 mid year introduction was this was the first time Chevrolet was putting their racing experience into a true production big block engine..hence there was a lot of concern for reliability issues.
Sorry but I find that a little hard to believe.What about the mid 60s L72's and L78's in the camaros,chevelles,ect,ect??Those were engines designed with racing experience in the bloodline.

Some one stated ALL 70- SS 454 M22 & T-400-Had front and rear sway bars. No el camino 70-72 was ever built with with a rear sway bar or boxed rear arms. When I ordered my El Camino in Feb. 1970 This is what I ordered
LS-6 engine--F-41 susp.--Fact A/C--M22--P. Windows--P.D. Brks.--Posi--AM-FM--Remote D.S. mirror--Aux lite grp--V-top--NO GAUGES--NO STRIPES--NO Bucket Seats---A week or ten days later. My Salesman Bill Riddle from SAHLI Chevrolet, in Beaver Falls Penna. Called and said "You cannot get A/C with the LS6 engine" So he talked to the other 454 HI-PERF. engine. Then he said F-41 Suspension is N/A on El Caminos. My car was built in Balt. 2nd wk. of March I left Sahli Chevrolet April 4 1970. But not before my transmission noise was OKed by shop foreman,He said its to noisy-but drive it when it blows up we will fix it. It has not blown up yet. My Camino still has the small front sway bar. In june 1970 a lot of the chevelles I saw had rear sway bars.I went to Sahli chevy and had a rear sway bar installed. 2- lower arms sway bar-nuts and bolts- and labor----$79.88. This was the DUMBEST thing I have ever done?? almost. WHY-With air shocks and rear sway bar, Drive over a tar strip on the road,It was like driving over an 8"X8" and it handled like"SHIP". PS--- all El Caminos 68-72 had fact air shocks-NO 70-72 El Caminos of any type had F-41 Susp. or a rear sway bar. If you see F-41 or a sway bar on a 70-72 Camino, The owner did it, not the factory. 70 SS454 M22 org owner---70 SS454 Red sta. wgn. Bob in PITTSBURGH PA. can you say------------------------STEELERS-----------------------

Dean,

I think he was refering to what amounted to the Chevrolet heavy duty parts..ie: 7/16" push rods, the 1053 crank, etc.

Sorry but I find that a little hard to believe.What about the mid 60s L72's and L78's in the camaros,chevelles,ect,ect??Those were engines designed with racing experience in the bloodline.

[QUOTE=Robinls5].......PS--- all El Caminos 68-72 had fact air shocks-NO 70-72 El Caminos of any type had F-41 Susp. or a rear sway bar. If you see F-41 or a sway bar on a 70-72 Camino, The owner did it, not the factory. /QUOTE]

Stamp out urban legend! Cheers!

Also for 1970 non functional hoods didn't come with hood pins but 1971 and 1972 non functional had hood pins.

The above statement contradicts what the SS ident page states. Which is correct?

"All of the '70-'72 SS cars came with hood pins, except for some of the early '70 models (those built around April of 1970 or earlier) that were not ordered with Cowl Induction."

ss_ident (http://www.chevelles.com/shop/ss_ident.html)

Anybody know the truth to the above question? I am trying to find out if it was possible that my 70' Elky that came with non-functional hood could have had hood pins from factory. Build was 04C on the body plate if that helps.

TIA

There is a great article written by Jeff Dotterer and Brian Edwards that was featured in the NCOA's magazine and in Musclecar Review in the early 1990's. Hope this helps

Greg

Any idea where I can get a copy?

Thanks

Chas

Hi actually in 1970 all SS chevelles except L78 cars came with 3:31 non posi. It was an option to have posi. Also 4:10 was an option which only came in posi. The L78 cars all had 3:55 gears. All the SS chevelles had different lower control A arms with circular bushings and a different steering column knuckle. You will see this on the build sheets as well. All SS cars had 12 bolts with the F41 option. Boxed lower control arms with a rear sway bar. There is also 2 frame stiffeners that go from the upper rear control arms to the frame. Also the front sway bar was bigger 1 1/16 inches. All came with power front disk brakes. The dash would be the one with circles not the sweep dash. Gauges was an option. The base SS modle had the idiot light dash. Also having a clock was an option. On monte carlo's though a clock was standard on every car. Also of course the front clear lenses and back SS pad and dual exhaust with chrome tips. SS magnum wheels. SS emblems on the door panels. Although some documented early SS chevelles had malibu door panel emblems. The functional cowl induction hood was also an option and not standard with any of the SS motor combinations. You also could only have stripe delete on a non functional cowl induction hood. All cowl induction hoods had stripes. Also for 1970 non functional hoods didn't come with hood pins but 1971 and 1972 non functional had hood pins. All 3 years with functional cowl induction had hood pins. etc etc All this applies to LS6's as well. You also should note the fuel lines are different from small block to big block. Good luck!

All L78 cars did not have 3.55 gears. If someone wanted something different than 3.31, then the dealer would need to order it. My L78 has 2 build sheets which show it having G84 4.10 axle ratio, G80 posi, ZQ9 perf axle and box 29 shows KK axle.

All SS cars had F41 and sway bars?? as far as I know, the F41 was and option in 70,

I believe that the F-41 suspension package was a standard part of the SS option in 1970. This was not true in 69 when it was a seperate option, and never true of El Caminos. Not sure about later years SS cars.