I am doing the PPG DX579 and DX520 Metal conditioning to my bare metal once all the rust is off and then priming with a light coat of Dp50LF as the PPg Tech sheet says to. Should I put the K-38 over the DP? If so how long should I wait in between different primers? Flash off ie.. tacky? I will obviously need to use filler on alot of the metal that was bare before the metal conditioner treatment, so should I shoot the conditioned metal with DP to seal it and then scuff it with 320 on the D/A the next day and then start filling or can I put a few coats of K-38 over the DP "and avoid scuffing the DP alltogether"
Then block sand the next day and use filler where needed?. If I can what should I scuff the K-38 with before I apply the Rage gold filler? Wow this metal treating sure compounded the process! Thanks in advance. Zach

Zach, a filler like Rage or Rage Gold should NEVER be applied over K38 or any other type of primer surfacer. Body filler can only be applied to bare metal or epoxy primer.

Apply your metal treatments then apply 2 coats of epoxy primer. The flash time inbetween coats varies on the hardener used. I belive that DP401 is 30 mins and 402 is 15 mins, is this for inbtween coats of epoxy. If you spray epoxy on then spray K38 right over that the times change to 60min-dp401 and 30min-dp402.

Ok now you got two coats of epoxy on the metal, allow a good 2 days for the epoxy to cure, and MAKE SURE that the temp doesnt drop below 65 degrees or that epoxy will NEVER CURE. Ok now you can block the epoxy with 180 grit to find the high low spots, that will tell you where more filler is needed, all you are doing is scuffing the epoxy to find low spots NOT sanding it off. Apply your filler to the epoxy, but scuff those areas that will recieve filler with 80 grit before you apply filler.

Block your filler with 80 grit then 180 to finish. Once you are happy then you can apply your k38 surfacer.

There is a type of filler that can be applied to surfacer but its called poly glaze. An ex would be evercoats metal glaze or upol's dolphin glaze. Only this type of filler can be applied to surfacer. Its meant to correct small imperctions NOT to be used as regular filler. Used to fill pinholes or small waves that a round of K38 wont fix, DONT go overboard when using a poly glaze over surfacer. When you apply it to the surfacer onc4 agin scuff that area will 80 grit then apply very thin DONT lump it on, apply as level as possible.

Once again thanks a million 70!

I re-read my post its kinda confusing.

You got the metal stripped bare, nothing but bare metal. You apply the metal treatments, and be sure that you FOLLOW the tech sheets to a T. If you dont have them let me know I'll post them.

On the tech sheet on the metal treatments it says that epoxy primer NEEDS to be applied within the same working day. Mix up your epoxy primer in the 2:1 ratio for primer dont add reducer this will make it a sealer changing the properties of the product.

Ok if you are using the 401 hardener that hardener needs a 30 min induction time after being mixed up before you can spray. So you mix the epoxy up in a cup and allow it to set for 30 mins, once 30 mins is up you can spray. The 402 hardener DOESNT need that 30 induction time.

Spray 2 med-wet coats of epoxy over the metal treatments. Allow 30 mins flash time with 401 and 15 mins of flash time with 402 inbetween coats of epoxy.

Now you have 2 coats of epoxy on the metal, allow it to set for 2 days making sure that the epoxy is cured before you start sanding and appling filler over top of it. In order to find the low/high spots yo need sanding block of varoius sizes and shapes. This link has a pic of some sanding blocks and a few sanding tech ideas.
http://www.chevelles.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=008196#000002

The grit I would use to find the spots is 180 grit, all you are going is scuffing the epoxy to find the areas that need more work, not sanding off the paint so dont go overboard. High spot will be shiny metal and low will be unsanded epoxy. Before you start slinging mud to those areas you need to first work the area with a hammer and dolly and try to smooth out the area first. Once you work the area use the block sander to see if that metal working helped fixed the area. Keep metal working the spot til you are happy.

When doing filler over epoxy I try to use NO MORE then 1/8 thickness of filler, althou I know not everyone can do that, but try to keep the filler thickness down by properly metal working the spot first before filler. You can use rage or rage gold over epoxy and even the poly glaze but remember ONLY a poly glaze can be applied to surfacer.

Ok now you have metal worked the spots with a hammer and dolly and ready to apply the filler, the spots that will get filler just scuff those spots with 80 grit.
Blow off the metal and wipe it clean with a surface cleaner like PPG dx330 or 320. Take a CLEAN DRY rag and fold in 4ths, pour a small amount of cleaner on the rag. Now wipe the entire panel with the rag, folding it over using a clean side. Now take a NEW DRY CLEAN rag and wipe that panel DRY, DONT ALLOW THAT CLEANER TO DRY ON THE PANEL if you do allow it to dry just rewipe it and then wipe dry.

Now apply your filler, try to keep it smooth and not lump it on. Block the filler level first with 80 grit then use 180 to finish off the filler.

Now repeat the cleaning part with compressed air and cleaner(dx330) and you can now apply that k38.

70,

After I shoot the DP and block it lightly what do I do with the bare metal shinny high spots? Re-aply mor DP? Or just keep doing the filler work and don't worry about the bare metal that sanded through on the hi spots until I am done preping the filler areas?

then if I re-apply the DP to the shinny high spots will it hurt to get DP on the filler?

Or should I not worry at all about the bare metal shinny high spots and let the K-38 cover them.

Should I use some kind of glazing or icing putty on the filler to prevent pinholes, or will the K-38 fill any pin holes in the rage gold?

Well on the bare metal spots it all depends, if the spots are more then half dollar sized then yes I would reshoot with epoxy. Do this after you get the filler sanded, that epoxy wont hurt the filler one bit.

So you block the epoxy to find high/low spots, then use hammer dolly to farther work the metal to get straight, then apply and block filler. Once filler is blokced spray 1 coat of epoxy over the entire panel if you have MANY bare metal spots.

But if you have just few spots then K38 applied right over those bare metal spots wont hurt.

A primer surfacer WONT fill pinholes in filler unless you cheat smile.gif If you have excessive holes then a few things come to mind. 1st your are NOT mixing the filler right, you are adding air to the filler as you mix it, you WANT to remove the air as you mix. Think of it as kneeding bread, use a tough scraping motion. 2nd you are adding too much hardener, adding too much hardener can cause pinholes. The ratio for evercoat products I believe is 10%.

As for appling a poly glaze over rage gold I do it all the time thats how I finish every filler repair. First off it sands easier, spreads better and feathers out better also less prone to pinholes then regular filler

Do a search for a "basics of basics" on filler or skim coat under Martinsr name. He does a GREAT job of describing how to do a skim coat of poly glaze. How he does it is excatly how I do it, he can "TELL HOW" much better then I can...Eric