hi guys i am new to this and im sure this question has probably been asked and answered many times before
of the 20 ls-6 convertibles
how many were stick and / or automatics
how many are still " alive "
how many left still have the original motors
thank you

There's probably going to be 100 of them next year at Barrett Jackson!!!

Good question.
I wonder how many 307 automatic Malibu convertibles have been changed into LS5/LS6 4 speed convertibles. (with documentation)

Well the "20" figure is innacurate for starters. There is an LS6 registry, and the coordinator of that has somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30 verified cars listed. These are cars that exist today and have documentation. By his estimates, there were likely closer to 200-300 LS6 convertibles produced. Another estimate that has been generated based on percentages and actual production data is in the low 100s (can't recall exactly).

the wealth of aftermarket parts/ documentation combined with 7 figure prices are going to make the number of LS6 cars grow every year. it's pretty lucrative, buy a decent '70 conv for $15k, then spend $75k, and just like that you have a $1,000,000 car. i don't have near the knowledge of most of the folks on this website, but if you give me a year and $ to do it, i could build a 307/PG malibu into an LS6/M22 car that would fool anyone. and really, no one can ever disprove it. GM has already said the records of the cars they produced in this era are long gone, except of course for pontiac.

Dan Carr's Chevelle poster, which bases estimates of model/engine/trans combos on all known production numbers, shows 61 with M22 4 speed and 34 with automatics for a total of 95. Unless GM releases more data, that's as good an estimate as anyone can make.

wow guys
i had always read that only 20 1970 ls-6 convertibles were produced
actually i even thought i saw it reconfirmed on barrett jackson last week in the one race chevelle that sold for $1.15 million and the red ls6 convertible that sold for around $500k
obviously my research was not very good but some websites definately list the 1970 ls-6 chevelle convertibles at 20
the 1967 l-88 corvettes at 20 and the 1969 zl-1 camaros at 69
so you guys are really sure that there is "a lot more "
even in sports car market magazine where the auction details and results are published every month lists the cars produced at 20
thanks again

Dan Carr's Chevelle poster, which bases estimates of model/engine/trans combos on all known production numbers, shows 61 with M22 4 speed and 34 with automatics for a total of 95. Unless GM releases more data, that's as good an estimate as anyone can make.

hi von could you give me the details how to buy the poster
does it also have other cars listed or is it an ls-6 poster
sorry im not familiar with it

i just felt that ths convertible 1970 ls-6 might be a very good investment car
if perhaps it was limited to 20 with the possibility that only say 3-5 had their original motors
similar to the 1967 l-88 corvrttes where there are 20 produced with only 3 having their original engines
oh alss the 1969 zl-1 camaros only 7 left with original motors i believe 2 stick and 5 auto
something like that
so i was looking for very high quality limited production cars in the GM family. sort of like the 14 1970 hemi cuda conv. or the 11 1971 hemi cuda conv.
thanks again everyone all the info you guys provide is very important .

Often times these supposed production facts get started by dealers and sellers wanting to make their vehicles seem more desirable. For example, there was a dealer with a pair of 70 Chevelle SS L78 convertibles that was advertising them as 2 of the 6 produced. There was no evidence that only 6 were produced, and the number of these cars that have surfaced and have been documented is much higher than that.

Sometimes there is information regarding a certain number of cars "known to exist" which gets misinterpreted as "total built." The automotive publications in many instances are responsible for perpetuating the misinformation by quoting statistics without making any attempt to substantiate them. Here's what the guy running the LS6 registry has stated just recently about the number of LS6 convertibles built:

For a long time the general consensous was 18-20 cars but over the last few years more than 30 have been documented. If you talk to the researchers, they pretty much believe the real numbers to be in the 200+ range. Based on what has surfaced just in the last year or so, I would have to say those are likely very accurate figures.

He has accumulated a wealth of information on LS6 cars, and is probably in the best position to make an estimate on the true number produced. His name is Rick Nelson (his user name here is the same, but with an underline between the names - 'Rick_Nelson'). Do a search and you can send him a PM.

hi von could you give me the details how to buy the poster
does it also have other cars listed or is it an ls-6 poster
sorry im not familiar with it
It's for all '68-'72 Chevelles. Go to the Team Chevelle Index page. In the lower right hand corner of the page, click on "production totals poster". There's a photo, description, and how to order. It's very high quality and well worth it.

Often times these supposed production facts get started by dealers and sellers wanting to make their vehicles seem more desirable. For example, there was a dealer with a pair of 70 Chevelle SS L78 convertibles that was advertising them as 2 of the 6 produced. There was no evidence that only 6 were produced, and the number of these cars that have surfaced and have been documented is much higher than that.

Sometimes there is information regarding a certain number of cars "known to exist" which gets misinterpreted as "total built." The automotive publications in many instances are responsible for perpetuating the misinformation by quoting statistics without making any attempt to substantiate them. Here's what the guy running the LS6 registry has stated just recently about the number of LS6 convertibles built:



He has accumulated a wealth of information on LS6 cars, and is probably in the best position to make an estimate on the true number produced. His name is Rick Nelson (his user name here is the same, but with an underline between the names - 'Rick_Nelson'). Do a search and you can send him a PM.


rainer
thank you so much
i am trying to make the difficult decision about these cars as the price is quite high.
needless to say i want to spend the money on the rarest one i can afford
i really appreciate your help
in the italian car market such as ferrari the company was so small that you can get exact details on production
of course with a real auto manufacturer like gm it becomes difficult as they made huge quantities of cars

It's for all '68-'72 Chevelles. Go to the Team Chevelle Index page. In the lower right hand corner of the page, click on "production totals poster". There's a photo, description, and how to order. It's very high quality and well worth it.

von again my thanks

obviously my research was not very good but some websites definately list the 1970 ls-6 chevelle convertibles at 20
the 1967 l-88 corvettes at 20 and the 1969 zl-1 camaros at 69
so you guys are really sure that there is "a lot more "


First, the Auction house in the the business of making money, and therefore they will hype the cars they are going to sell... saying "20" makes the car sound more valuable than saying "200". and even if that number isn't correct, its been thrown around long enough that many people believe it...

The point is NO ONE IS SURE! (don't believe what you read)... But its reasonable to think well above 20... "20" is one of those numbers that someone probably once through out to make their car sound really rare (and therefore increase the price/value)... Other people just naturally picked up on it, and it continues...

And here's an example for you:
In your research, you say 20 L88 Corvettes in 1967, but how many were roadsters and how many were hardtops??? (Maybe this Corvette info is known, but I haven't seen it). Cars like the ZL1 were a special production run (through the COPO system), and therefore, they probably had additional info (but not positive on that), just like the Z16 Chevelles. Thats the info that isn't available for the LS6 Chevelle...


Chevrolet produced ~4500 LS6 "Chevelles". We know this because of ENGINE production numbers and info (from the Tonwanda Engine plant where ALL Big Blocks of the era were built)...

BUT, it is NOT known how many LS6s went into Convertibles, into Hardtops or into El Caminos... Thats why no one knows for sure... "Supposedly" no LS6 Monte Carlos, but I wonder where that came from (why couldn't their be an LS6 Monte?)...

Its also known that ~9000 "SS454" options (LS5 and LS6 cars) were created, but again, how many were conv/hardtop/El Camino/Monte Carlos is not known...

Same goes for colors... Chevrolet doesn't have the info on how many "Cranberry Red" Chevelles were produced in 1970, No idea at all, and therefore no idea how many were SS396 cars, how many were SS454 cars, how many were Malibus, how many were base Chevelles, etc... They just don't have the breakdowns or havn't made them public...

When ever I see anyone spout off numbers like these, or talking about how rare their color combo is, I just laugh...

Logically, with a registry that has more than 20 known examples, kind of blows that number out of the water (yes there could be forged documents, but alot of these cars have been around for years making that less likely, compared to the guy that shows up tomorrow with a fully restored one... And how many people really know about these registrys? Probably less than half the owners... I meet "Chevelle" owners all the time, and very few have heard of this website (I always spread the word though)...

i just felt that ths convertible 1970 ls-6 might be a very good investment car
if perhaps it was limited to 20 with the possibility that only say 3-5 had their original motors
One sold for $500K and one for over $1,125,000... Of course its a good investment, if you can get an AUTHENTIC one for a "good" price... Buy low, sell high... There are risks, and I wonder if buying one of these top tier cars is a good investment right now... IF something happens to the collector car market, it might be these "over priced" cars that take the hit... Cars under $80K might still get a similar return without as much of the risk (more people willing to buy)... Of course, if you can afford to buy a $500K classic car, then you can afford to take a loss on it (or you shouldn't be in the game)...

similar to the 1967 l-88 corvrttes where there are 20 produced with only 3 having their original engines

WHERE did you ever pull that number out from??? I have heard that there are more "documented" 1967 L88s out there than originally built... I didn't think even the Corvette community knows how which ones are "real", much less which ones still have there original engines... Slightly different than the LS6, because most of the L88s were race cars, so some of them probably have a pretty extensive background, and those known cars, maybe only 3 have the original engines...

I can't wait for the day (its got to happen someday), when the original owner of that "$500K" LS6 convertible/Hemi car/etc (or what ever) steps forward with the original 307/PG documents to set everyone straight... Especially IF its one that sold on TV...

First, the Auction house in the the business of making money, and therefore they will hype the cars they are going to sell... saying "20" makes the car sound more valuable than saying "200". and even if that number isn't correct, its been thrown around long enough that many people believe it...

The point is NO ONE IS SURE! (don't believe what you read)... But its reasonable to think well above 20... "20" is one of those numbers that someone probably once through out to make their car sound really rare (and therefore increase the price/value)... Other people just naturally picked up on it, and it continues...

And here's an example for you:
In your research, you say 20 L88 Corvettes in 1967, but how many were roadsters and how many were hardtops??? (Maybe this Corvette info is known, but I haven't seen it). Cars like the ZL1 were a special production run (through the COPO system), and therefore, they probably had additional info (but not positive on that), just like the Z16 Chevelles. Thats the info that isn't available for the LS6 Chevelle...


Chevrolet produced ~4500 LS6 "Chevelles". We know this because of ENGINE production numbers and info (from the Tonwanda Engine plant where ALL Big Blocks of the era were built)...

BUT, it is NOT known how many LS6s went into Convertibles, into Hardtops or into El Caminos... Thats why no one knows for sure... "Supposedly" no LS6 Monte Carlos, but I wonder where that came from (why couldn't their be an LS6 Monte?)...

Its also known that ~9000 "SS454" options (LS5 and LS6 cars) were created, but again, how many were conv/hardtop/El Camino/Monte Carlos is not known...

Same goes for colors... Chevrolet doesn't have the info on how many "Cranberry Red" Chevelles were produced in 1970, No idea at all, and therefore no idea how many were SS396 cars, how many were SS454 cars, how many were Malibus, how many were base Chevelles, etc... They just don't have the breakdowns or havn't made them public...

When ever I see anyone spout off numbers like these, or talking about how rare their color combo is, I just laugh...

Logically, with a registry that has more than 20 known examples, kind of blows that number out of the water (yes there could be forged documents, but alot of these cars have been around for years making that less likely, compared to the guy that shows up tomorrow with a fully restored one... And how many people really know about these registrys? Probably less than half the owners... I meet "Chevelle" owners all the time, and very few have heard of this website (I always spread the word though)...


One sold for $500K and one for over $1,125,000... Of course its a good investment, if you can get an AUTHENTIC one for a "good" price... Buy low, sell high... There are risks, and I wonder if buying one of these top tier cars is a good investment right now... IF something happens to the collector car market, it might be these "over priced" cars that take the hit... Cars under $80K might still get a similar return without as much of the risk (more people willing to buy)... Of course, if you can afford to buy a $500K classic car, then you can afford to take a loss on it (or you shouldn't be in the game)...



WHERE did you ever pull that number out from??? I have heard that there are more "documented" 1967 L88s out there than originally built... I didn't think even the Corvette community knows how which ones are "real", much less which ones still have there original engines... Slightly different than the LS6, because most of the L88s were race cars, so some of them probably have a pretty extensive background, and those known cars, maybe only 3 have the original engines...


again my thanks for taking the time to help me in this matter
of course all the figures i have on the cars are from the internet or sports car market magazine
thus the numbers i posted above
as there are many websites for many makes and model cars this one surfaced and it seemed to be a library for someone with not much knowledge (such as myself ) to get a quick study of the more rare cars
even if there are 20 ,30 or the 200 1970 chevelle ls-6 convertables produced is of course the first question
more importantly the next questions would be
how many still have their original engine
how many are stick vs . auto and what colors /options as you would expect one would attempt to buy the most desireable, to have and hold as it were, for possible sale 5,10 or more years down the road

again many thanks

more importantly the next questions would be
how many still have their original engine
how many are stick vs . auto and what colors /options as you would expect one would attempt to buy the most desireable, to have and hold as it were, for possible sale 5,10 or more years down the road

again many thanks

The advice given on this site can generally be summed up by stating, "buy what you personally like, and have fun with it." If you're interested in sound investments, best direct those questions to your broker or financial advisor. The musclecar market is extremely volatile, and experienced a huge surge in values in the late 1980's when speculators rushed in, only to have the bottom fall out on the high-end cars when owners wanted to liquidate. No offense, but we'd all probably be happy here if you stuck to investing in 10mil Ferraris ;)

The advice given on this site can generally be summed up by stating, "buy what you personally like, and have fun with it." If you're interested in sound investments, best direct those questions to your broker or financial advisor. The musclecar market is extremely volatile, and experienced a huge surge in values in the late 1980's when speculators rushed in, only to have the bottom fall out on the high-end cars when owners wanted to liquidate. No offense, but we'd all probably be happy here if you stuck to investing in 10mil Ferraris ;)


rainer again thank you for you sound advice. as soon as i can afford a broker or financial advisor ill ask him about investments and as soon as i get $10 mill ill go buy a ferrari !!!!
but until then based on your statement above i apologise
i would never wish to make anyone unhappy here or anywhere in their life by trying to buy one of these cars as that is what you stated..
i have been polite.
stated my being a novice in your field and certainly cant be any worse then some of the folks i have seen at barrett jackson buying cars
i have personally drag raced since 1972 run high tens with cars built by me and built a number of hots rods with my sons including engines so i am a part time mechanic by trade or hobby not just a barrett jackson wannabe
my first cars were a 1970 nova with a 350,a 1969 camaro ss350(automatic)
and my home built 1966 chevelle businessmans coupe with a 327 tunnel ram 5:13 gears
again many thanks for your help and courtesy and apologies for upsetting you

So are you saying you're not the same "nunzio828" from Pennsylvania that posted about purchasing the Ferrari on this other discussion board last year?

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45872

C'mon now, sounds like someone is doing some leg-pulling regarding the depths of their pockets :rolleyes:

cars come and go so does the depths of ones pockets somedays deep somedays shallow
is that what predicated the go away type attitude
from you explain where that comes from
i dont flip cars i hold them and restore whenever condition or finances permit
by the way i drive it just like everyone else and get gas at the local gas station every single time out
whats up why the hostility
never showed you anything but class and respect repeatedly

Hostility? :confused: I only suggested that if you are looking for advice on investing in Chevelles you're not likely to get much of it here.

Re: the comment on spending $10mil on a Ferarri, did you notice the winking smiley after it? It was meant as ribbing since it was apparent that you had done just that. Unexpectedly, you acted as if you were of meager means and could never afford such a purchase. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif No crime in being well off, so why the need to deny it?

Good luck in your quest for buying a Chevelle. This site is a great resource, and people here will always extend a welcome hand to fellow Chevelle lovers.

FWIW, my 70 convertible is 1 of 896 (roughly) without RPO C06 (Folding Electric Top) :D.

Hostility? :confused: I only suggested that if you are looking for advice on investing in Chevelles you're not likely to get much of it here.

Re: the comment on spending $10mil on a Ferarri, did you notice the winking smiley after it? It was meant as ribbing since it was apparent that you had done just that. Unexpectedly, you acted as if you were of meager means and could never afford such a purchase. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif No crime in being well off, so why the need to deny it?

Good luck in your quest for buying a Chevelle. This site is a great resource, and people here will always extend a welcome hand to fellow Chevelle lovers.


oh ok i am not good at the posting stuff
so i didnt get the smiley
as for the well off part
ive been poor way more times that well off
actually poor is a lot less stressful you make better friends when you have a couple of bucks everyone wants to suck up
my best friend are the ones who i am always there for and they are always there for me
thanks again for the referrals
its just time for me to look into some good old chevrolets ( i never have never will have a mopar)
my best ride was my old 1966 chevelle with 8" slicks would most times pull the right wheel off the ground almost a whole 1" !!!!!
but to me at 17/ 18 years old was the coolest car and all built by me as at that time i couldnt afford a malibu just the businessmans coupe version i paid $400 it had the small 6 cyl the 230c.i.
pulled it the trans the rear put in a pontiac 10bolt it was more sturdy than the chevy 10 bolt (and all the junkyard had )
borg warner t-10 trans and the 327 solid lifter tunnel ram
took me about 4 years to finish the car but to me it was a masterpiece
chassis started twisting just below the master cylinder it was great for staging
the left front wheel was behind the right front wheel by about 1 1/2"
anyway ill keep you posted i have a few irons in the fire on some cool cars
funny during the year i look at like 25 cars and if im lucky i get to buy one most of the time the cars are stories or wrecks etc
thanks again

So, you still own the 3223 Nunzio?

yes i do
actually something just stuck me funny as to proving my true brand loyalty
i have been a member of ferrari chat for 2 years
and my post total is 13 !!!!!!!
i have been a member here for about two days sort of
and my post total is already 10 shows where my roots and the real people are
again thanks for the leads

Ferraris, Chevelles, or anything in between......if you like to talk cars this is a good place to be :)

nunzio, you said you looked at 25 cars, and you were lucky to find one that didn't have a story or was a wreck.

How nice a car do you want, and what color and drive train.

Rob

hi rob
well its the good old "as best as i can swing at the time" sure in partaking of normal due diligence i would try to obtain as complete a list as possible of all the ls-6 convertibles (20,30 or 200) find out stick or auto, find out original engine ,find out colors and highly optioned.
then see what the very best would possibly cost and if it were even for sale at all !!
then you go down the list and see whats both available for sale and affordable .because its not like some folks here have foolishly assumed money is always the object at any level be it in the supermarket or buying a home .
remember only bill gates is bill gates !!!
thats my story now what do you have in mind

nunzio, how many cars do you have, and what are they, if you don't mind

Rob

had a lot but sold off about half in the past few years couldnt properly exercise them
didnt want just a bunch of leaking museum pieces

daily drivers are a 1994 yukon 140k miles and a 1999 tahoe 80k miles

been emailing rick nelson
excellent source of facts on these cars
hope to do something working together with him in the future

thanks everyone for the reference

The LS6 convert Chevelle that sold for over $1M was a famous race car since it was new and has NHRA National Championships and records in it's history. The race car history probably doubled its value.

nunzio, you said you had a bunch of leaking museum pieces.

That statement pretty much sums up where you're coming from, older cars are a treasure to most of us on here, for the majority, that money comes hard, with wifes and children, which are always our main concern, to get a older muscle car, that is a dream, a lot of us wish for.

nunzio, I don't know you, and I don't know your story, but I pitty you.

Rob

read it again thats the opposite of what i said


nunzio, you said you had a bunch of leaking museum pieces.

That statement pretty much sums up where you're coming from, older cars are a treasure to most of us on here, for the majority, that money comes hard, with wifes and children, which are always our main concern, to get a older muscle car, that is a dream, a lot of us wish for.

nunzio, I don't know you, and I don't know your story, but I pitty you.

Rob

had a lot but sold off about half in the past few years couldnt properly exercise them
didnt want just a bunch of leaking museum pieces

"didn't want"

"didn't want"

thank you dean
you know my cars
would you say they look like they should be given pity

The LS6 convert Chevelle that sold for over $1M was a famous race car since it was new and has NHRA National Championships and records in it's history. The race car history probably doubled its value.
yes agreed
i had written to rick nelson about ls-6's in general and of course the barrett jackson auction came into the communication
he too felt similar that the cars race history probably contributed to doubling its sale price

i live in the town that red LS-6 for $500,000 was bought new. a friend of mine helped the original owner fill out the order sheet. that car had a "CE" warranty block in it. the guy that sold it at BJ just bought it from the second owner who owned it for many years & restored it. if you guys only new what he paid for that car 4 months ago & run it through BJ can you say PROFIT!!!!

Brucebodyman, was that a convertible, how was it described at the auction

Rob

yes it was a convertible i dont recall if they said it was original motor or not.i'm painting an LS-6 for a guy who worked with the guy who owned that red one new. he was over the other day & said he had pics & video of the red convertible in the chicken coupe it was taken out of over 20 years ago. the stories the speed guy mentioned about being in police chases was right. original owner won a lot of money street racing car. lost his licence put car in chicken coupe second owner bought it kept it all these years restored it sold it in late sept. or early oct. '05 to guy who auctioned it. a buddy of mine almost bought it thought the second owner was selling to cheap. got cold feet watched it go on BJ for way more money. live & learn. pretty cool watching a car youv'e known go across the auction block on TV

Thanks bruce, looks like you have some pretty nice cars there, any pictures.

Rob

always something going on i do a lot of chevelles mainly 70-72's don't know that my customers want me posting pics of their cars on internet.

I imagine it was in the five figure range. It makes me think of the gold LS6 convertible that I passed on three years ago for $25K. I just did not like the colors. I still have copies of the documentation for the car. If we could only see into the future, hears a pic of it.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/redmanf1/282d6b58.jpg

Passing on a real deal LS 6 convert for 25K would be enough to give a sick feeling today.
Just think you could have gotten a million for it next year.

I couldn't find OR afford one so I'm building one, not an LS6, just (hopefully) a nice 454 driver.

nunzio, how about putting up a picture of your collection ?

Redman,
Was that car from Canada? If so, what was the build date?

I have seen and have pictures of nunzio's collection. Impressive to say the least!!!!!!!! Just missing a few rare Chevrolets to make it complete.
Rick

FWIW, my 70 convertible is 1 of 896 (roughly) without RPO C06 (Folding Electric Top)

My Dad's car never had the power top either, so at least 2 of 896 survived! ;)

daily drivers are a 1994 yukon 140k miles and a 1999 tahoe 80k miles



You still expect us to believe this, nunz? ;)

Rick,
I am not sure. I saved the pictures but I have tried to enlarge them to read it better but they get too distorted. I must have saved them as a small jpg. I have photo shop 7 but I do not know it well enough to enlarge the pic without the blur. I have a copy of the title, window sticker, prep sheet and something else. When I get time I will try a few things to see if I can get you the date. I can see it was built in Baltimore and can almost make out the dealer. Sorry


Nelson





Redman,
Was that car from Canada? If so, what was the build date?

I have seen and have pictures of nunzio's collection. Impressive to say the least!!!!!!!! Just missing a few rare Chevrolets to make it complete.
Rick

No problem. I only ask because the car shares the same color combination of another LS-6 convert that was a confirmed fake built in October if I recall. I personally don't recall having any cars in the registry with this color combination but have not looked recently.
Rick

I don't know if this helps but it was for sale out of ohio at the time.

It looks like it was sent to Bob something Chevy in Ohio.

Rick,
PM sent

Rick,
Was you able to make anything out?

Nelson

Redman,
Sorry but I have not had a moments peace to look into it. I just got home from another LS-6 venture and have three to get done and somehow try to get some sleep. I will look into is as soon as I can. It is no big deal to me and was just wondering if it was the same car that I remember from a few years ago. Thanks for sending me the info and I will check it out.
Rick

It looks like it was sent to Bob something Chevy in Ohio.
Bob McDorman Chevrolet in Columbus, OH?? That guy has a huge collection of Chevy vehicles. I visited thre in 2003, quite an impressive collection and available for the public to see.

Blue,
I could not make it out for sure. It was where the car was sent to when new.

Nelson