This new moron, and I'm just as big a moron, that took over my PPG supplier talked me into trying some Omni again. I still don't know how, but anyway, I use the better PPG paint so I have reducer "DT" and such around.

Well to make a long story short, I pop in get a pint of black paint to paint an air cleaner and a pair of valve covers and I'm talking to him about a new primer that he says is going to replace both k36 and 38 and I'm picking up some sealer for under the black paint etc. Anyway, this evening I get ready to spray the parts and discover I don't have any of the Omni MR reducer. Of course the place is closed until Monday.

I'm sure I already know the answer, but, could I use the DT in the Omni, or should I just wait until monday... this guy really is not as good as my old guy and gal. They took care of me and kept me from leaving the store without something, as well as giving me good prices. I'm really getting to the point where I'm thinking about changing brands just to get away from this guy.

Rick honestly I dont know.
I tried to look on the PPG site for the MSD sheets but got locked up.

With normal PPG paint you can get away without sealing prior to black, but its a long wait. But with OMNI its a darn must.

Ive never tried the DT MR swap, dont think I would. What is this new PPG primer number you know? Ive been out off the PPG loop since June

I don't know the direct answer either. But Eric,didn't PPG buy OMNI and not create it? If that is true, there is NO WAY I would swap reducers.

Now, "urethene" reducers are pretty generic in general. HOWEVER, are some very, very different animals out there like S-W Ultra/BASE reducer has resin in it (I believe containing wax) to stabilize the metallics and pearls. But S-W also has a "value line" ala OMNI called Dimension that does not use this reducer and you wouldn't want to mix the two. So I would say, don't do it.

Maybe I didnt state it good enough, but I agree with you Martin I wouldnt intermix the two together.
PPG's DBU and DBC which are both basecoat require two totally different reducers. The reducer for DBU hardnens the product, but with DBC you dont get this reaction.

Its not worth the hassle and extra money spent to strip down ruined parts because of a paint failure.

Ive always said use a paint product that has good reps/support in your area. PPG paint might work great in one area but not in another, simply because you have no one to answer questions.
You could have access to the highest quality of paint but without support its no better then the bottom of the barrel stuff.

Yea that was what I figured. I'm not going to risk it, even if it is for an air cleaner. I should have gone with the better quality paint in the first place, but I figured what the heck it is only an air cleaner. I've only used Omni a few times and have not been very impressed with it.

The primer is Deltron DPS 3055. I got a quart of it, a bit pricey. Haven't tried it out as of yet. Heard any thing about it? I also got a quart of DP 90 LF to try out. I'm going to use it on the air cleaner. Guy tells me it is a good sealer for under the Omni so I'll give it its first test there. I have never used the epoxy primers so I'm looking forward to trying it. Any pointers on the stuff? It says it is sand-less, but can you still sand it to smooth out imperfections that turn up after application? Does it build like the K36/38 and the DPS 3055?

You got it right on the help at the store. The guy and his daughter that used to run the store were great. Very helpful, knowledgeable etc. Now the place reminds me of one of those reality TV shows. The guy acts as if he is to busy to take a minute, even if your the only one in the store and I just don't get that feeling that he knows what he is talking about sometimes, or that he is just reciting the product introduction that he just attended to me. I don't get the impression that the guy has any real world experience like the old guy did. He was a well known body guy around here before running that place. His daughter had worked with him and his son-in-law is still running a shop here in town. Seems when ever I'm in there these days the two guys are deep in some conversation about golfing or some local bar maid that they have to continue while I'm trying to ask questions and get my materials that I need.

again thanks for sharing your knowledge guys.

rick

Rick never heard of that DPS primer.
In gerenal epoxy primer is a non sandable primer. It preforms a different task then a primer surfacer would ex K36/k38.

A primer like DPLF provides corrosion resistance.
A primer surfacer like K38 provides you with film build, the ability to sand out imperfections.

DPLF can be sanded but it sands like half dried glue, kinda gummy. It DOES NOT have any where near the build K36/38 has.
With K38 you can get 5mils of thickness with 2 coats, 2 coats with DPLF might get you 1.5-2mils.

DPLF isnt meant to fill surface imperfections its made to fight rust and provide adhesion to the metal. Were K38 isnt meant to fight corrosion its meant ti fill imperfections.

On air cleaner apply 1-2 coats of DPLF to provide for the corrosion resistance then your primer K36/38 or that new stuff to prvide for smoothing out.

If you use DPLF as a sealer prior to OMNI black I would apply your sealer then wait atleast 2hrs before appling any type of paint. Epoxy reduced down to a sealer can and will soak up the solvents from the paint and causing it to loss some of its gloss. The way to help stop this is wait awhile for the epoxy then topcoat. If you topcoat right way you run a big risk of dieback or loss of gloss.

Theres some info on DPS3055
http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase1/frmFindProduct.asp

Looks to be very similiar to K38

stopped in this morning to pick up the reducer, of course he only has it in 1 gal size, 20 bucks and he informs me that he will no longer mix pints for me, I have to take at least a quart, Omni at 40 plus and the better stuff up to 60 a quart or more. Geez...

I've always used PPG but I think I'm gong to have to shop around. What do you guys recommend as an alternative?

Dupont has a budget line called Nason, I've never tried the stuff but have heard good things about it. Most say it's better than Omni. Dupont's chroma base and chroma premier are excellent products and from what I see they directly compare pricewise to PPG's DBU and DBC. Valspar is also an economical way to go but I've never tried their products, I've heard good and bad.

Valspar has a super epoxy primer VP50.
Its like the old DP epoxy, not this crap PPG sells now.

Valspar basecoats are not the best. The coverage is not like DBC or chromabase, kinda splits the road between the higher end stuff and Nason/OMNI.

Not mixing a pint of paint for you, how stupid. graemlins/sad.gif
Mention that the Dupont store down the road is willing to sell paint by the pint. Might help him change his mind. If not dump the jerk.

By the way that DT reducer will go fast, its used in the primers, sealers, basecoat, clears, epoxy

The guy obviously doesn't want your business. Heck, I had a paint store that would mix half pints for me all the time. In fact he would pour off the gallon of reducer for guys needing only quart or so. I'll tell you this, that store had a line out the door on saturdays! He is the weekend painters best friend.


It really depends on the PEOPLE, one jobber can be so different from another. This is why I have preached that you really need to go to who treats you right,as opposed to blindly following a "Label". PPG,DuPont,S-W, M-S (at NAPA STORES), they all will provide you with a good product. You need to go to the jobber that has the good PEOPLE to help you.